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Groups > linux.debian.user > #269964
| From | gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | linux.debian.user |
| Subject | Re: about 10th new install of bullseye |
| Date | 2024-06-07 06:30 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <IMzoJ-1bf4-1@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink) |
| References | (1 earlier) <ILStr-KQM-1@gated-at.bofh.it> <IM0hj-PsE-1@gated-at.bofh.it> <IM6G5-TnL-17@gated-at.bofh.it> <IMaA1-VGK-1@gated-at.bofh.it> <IMtjj-17aP-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| Organization | linux.* mail to news gateway |
On 6/6/24 17:57, Tom Dial wrote:
>
>
> On 6/5/24 19:53, gene heskett wrote:
>> On 6/5/24 17:25, Tom Dial wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On 6/5/24 08:58, gene heskett wrote:
>>>> On 6/5/24 02:05, Tom Dial wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 6/4/24 04:26, gene heskett wrote:
>>>>>> On 2/19/22 06:31, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi Gene,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If this was someone calling you from a TV station saying they had
>>>>>>> a TV
>>>>>>> transmitter that was varying in power output - you'd have a
>>>>>>> mental checklist.
>>>>>>> You'd get down there, perhaps schedule some sort of power down /
>>>>>>> reduced
>>>>>>> power operation and then you'd check - power supplies, feeder
>>>>>>> cables, hot
>>>>>>> spots on cables - whatever. Divide and conquer- working back to a
>>>>>>> baseline
>>>>>>> of known working conditions and eliminating causes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My suggestion to you of a reinstall is partly designed to get you
>>>>>>> out of this
>>>>>>> "X happens, I did Y, now I've got Z" - to get to a known initial
>>>>>>> state.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Take out all the serial converters to UPS, lathe and so on.
>>>>>>> Wireless keyboard
>>>>>>> doesn't present as serial in the same way that brltty does - if
>>>>>>> it did, I'd
>>>>>>> have brltty with every install on this laptop.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Copy off your home directory as you did before - maybe using
>>>>>>> tar.gz and preserving permissions. Start with the .iso that
>>>>>>> includes firmware - the unofficial one.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Build back slowly - do an expert text mode install if you can.
>>>>>>> Then add your
>>>>>>> Trinity desktop - I don't think any of us can help you there,
>>>>>>> since we don't
>>>>>>> run trinity.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Check and you should find that brltty isn't installed at all.
>>>>>>> Then re-add thingsgradually until you have the working system you
>>>>>>> want. Document it - write down
>>>>>>> the steps you take / copy configuration files you change.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That will also reveal logging / login slowdowns or whatever
>>>>>>> caused by
>>>>>>> individual devices as you add them back. Keep a list as you go.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> That's the counsel of perfection: alternatively:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> apt rdepends brltty gives me:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> me@mymachine:~$ apt rdepends brltty
>>>>>>> brltty
>>>>>>> Reverse Depends:
>>>>>>> Suggests: speechd-el (>= 3.7.2)
>>>>>>> Depends: brltty-espeak (= 6.3+dfsg-1+deb11u1)
>>>>>>> Suggests: orca
>>>>>>> Depends: brltty-x11 (= 6.3+dfsg-1+deb11u1)
>>>>>>> Depends: brltty-speechd (= 6.3+dfsg-1+deb11u1)
>>>>>>> Depends: brltty-flite (= 6.3+dfsg-1+deb11u1)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You could try apt-get remove (or equivalent) on each of those
>>>>>>> packages and
>>>>>>> see if that clears it. I _know_ this is frustrating as all get
>>>>>>> out for you
>>>>>>> but a clear approach, written down so that you can remember where
>>>>>>> you got
>>>>>>> to will be very helpful.
>>>>
>>>> Any attempt to remove cura or brltty, removes gnome leaving me I
>>>> assume with a text only system by the time gnome takes all its
>>>> dependency's with it. Thanks Tom.
>>>
>>> Have you actually tried uninstalling brltty only, as a separate
>>> action from all others?
>>>
>>> I have a number of gnome installations, unfortunately for this
>>> discussion all bookworm. None of them has brltty.
>>>
>>> I have a few installations of bullseye and an older stretch
>>> installation, but none with gnome installed. On all of them, though,
>>> "apt-rdepends -r gnome" fails to list brltty as a gnome dependency.
>>> And on the bookworm systems, simulated installation of gnome ("apt
>>> install -s gnome") shows brltty as a suggested package only and would
>>> not install it along with gnome; on the stretch system, gnome
>>> installation makes no reference at all to brltty.
>>>
>> While I have both with only the radio buttons for keyboard and rodent
>> plugged into usb at install time. I have only one wired keyboard and
>> no wired mice as I've had a lightning strike on the pole that serves
>> this house reach up and tap me by way of my fingers on the keyboard.
>> Wasn't that much of a tap, I've been tapped a lot harder that that,
>> hard enough to trigger a 6 month round of shingles and the burns were
>> months healing. And in this case did not damage the keyboard or
>> computer, but I did get the message. I've had many strikes on that
>> pole since I built a garage on the end of the house, which caused me
>> to install a 200 amp service and bring my grounding specs up to NEC.
>> Zero problems since then (2008)
>>
>>> Is it possible you have apt settings that automatically pull in
>>> suggested packages, and that is interfering with attempts to remove
>>> brltty? I am not expert enough wrt apt and its relatives to know
>>> whether that even makes sense, and it seems a bit far fetched if
>>> maybe barely possible.
>>>
>>> Maybe if you post the output from "apt-rdepends -r brltty" and "apt
>>> purge --simulate brltty" it will be informative.
>>
>> Neither of those utils are installed. Should they be?
>
> apt should be installed. As far as I know it has been included by
> default in the Debian base system as the preferred command line package
> management program since buster or earlier. I have never had to install
> it. You probably should if it is missing.
>
> apt-rdepends is at least partly redundant with apt.
> The command "apt-rdepends -r <package-name>", and "apt rdepends
> <package-name>" both show reverse dependencies of <package-name>; the
> latter also shows suggestions (packages that suggest <package name, I
> think).
> If you have apt installed, you probably do not need apt-rdepends.
I was not aware that apt had that talent built it, thank you.
> Regards,
> Tom Dial
>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Tom Dial
>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If all else fails, you can then share it with the list and say "I
>>>>>>> got to
>>>>>>> step X with no problems, then Y happened - help me out here" and
>>>>>>> we'll
>>>>>>> have some better idea. We all jib at you for being vague/not
>>>>>>> indluding
>>>>>>> details but otherwise it is all just guesswork for the usual folk
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> hang out here.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> All the very best, as ever,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Andy Cater
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> How much longer till trixie is officially out?? What you are
>>>>>> proposing sounds like several days work, and i have other irons in
>>>>>> the fire. This release has been such a disaster for me because the
>>>>>> install insists on installing and configuring orca and brltty w/o
>>>>>> asking. I've done 40 some installs now, trying to stop it from
>>>>>> wasting about a second while its yelling every keystroke at me
>>>>>> because it thinks I'm blind. I finally have orca disabled and the
>>>>>> computer is useful. The delays are a pain in the a$$ but i can do
>>>>>> work now. It is not useful when orca is using 90% of a 6 core I5
>>>>>> yelling at me loud enough to announce and pronounce every
>>>>>> keystroke or mouse motion/click loud enough to wake the
>>>>>> neighbors. The first 23 installs never asked me if I wanted that
>>>>>> crap. And if you nuked the orca executable it would not reboot but
>>>>>> hung forever waiting for orca to start. I have it usable, the
>>>>>> installer AFAIAC is broken and I don't want to have to go through
>>>>>> all that again. Until the installer ASKS me if I want it because
>>>>>> it thinks I am blind, I have only one nerve left and and the
>>>>>> suggestion that I do yet another install, is standing on it.
>>>>>> Trying to remove it now, it insists on removing gnome and every
>>>>>> dependency. I just checked again with synaptic, removing either
>>>>>> orca or brltty still wants to destroy the system, Yet all I get
>>>>>> when I fuss about the broken installer is "won't fix, not broken'.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Gene,
>>>>>
>>>>> I, too, am not in need of the services that brltty or orca
>>>>> provide, and have noticed them hanging about from time to time,
>>>>> although I have not encountered any difficulties like you describe.
>>>>>
>>>>> On a bullseye system, apt-rdepends -r brltty informs me:
>>>>>
>>>>> # apt-rdepends -r brltty
>>>>> Reading package lists... Done
>>>>> Building dependency tree... Done
>>>>> Reading state information... Done
>>>>> brltty
>>>>> Reverse Depends: brltty-espeak (= 6.3+dfsg-1+deb11u1)
>>>>> Reverse Depends: brltty-flite (= 6.3+dfsg-1+deb11u1)
>>>>> Reverse Depends: brltty-speechd (= 6.3+dfsg-1+deb11u1)
>>>>> Reverse Depends: brltty-x11 (= 6.3+dfsg-1+deb11u1)
>>>>> brltty-espeak
>>>>> brltty-flite
>>>>> brltty-speechd
>>>>> brltty-x11
>>>>>
>>>>> If I understand apt-rdepends correctly, you should be able to
>>>>> remove/purge brltty ("apt purge brltty") without removing any
>>>>> installed packages other than the four listed above.
>>>>>
>>>>> apt-rdepends -r orca tells me:
>>>>>
>>>>> # apt-rdepends -r orca
>>>>> Reading package lists... Done
>>>>> Building dependency tree... Done
>>>>> Reading state information... Done
>>>>> orca
>>>>> Reverse Depends: gnome (>= 1:3.38+3)
>>>>> Reverse Depends: gnome-orca (3.38.2-2)
>>>>> Reverse Depends: orca-sops (1.0.2-2)
>>>>> gnome
>>>>> gnome-orca
>>>>> orca-sops
>>>>>
>>>>> So removing orca would also take gnome, and that probably is
>>>>> unacceptable to you. Accordingly, you need to tame orca to find the
>>>>> process that causes it to run and persuade it not to do that.
>>>>>
>>>>> I found, on a bookworm install (I have no bullseye with gnome and
>>>>> orca), that running orca -s from a terminal will bring up a
>>>>> settings panel with a check box for "Enable speech" under the
>>>>> "Speech" tab. Unchecking that box and selecting the "Apply" button
>>>>> will silence Orca. I think that leaves some of its subtasks
>>>>> running, as children of the systemd --user task; I am far from
>>>>> expert here. They do not seem to use significant resources, however.
>>>>>
>>>>> Alternatively, you can find orca's process, for instance, with "ps
>>>>> -ef | grep orca", and kill it. The -HUP signal is enough. Or you
>>>>> can kill its parent process (third column in the ps -ef output) if
>>>>> it is not a necessary one, or maybe teach it how to not start orca
>>>>> in the first place,
>>>>>
>>>>> I hope this is useful. Things like this can be very annoying.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>> Tom Dial
>>
>> Thank you Tom
>>
>> Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.
Cheers, Gene Heskett, CET.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
- Louis D. Brandeis
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Re: about 10th new install of bullseye gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-06-04 12:30 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2024-06-04 20:20 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2024-06-05 04:50 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye Tom Dial <tddial@comcast.net> - 2024-06-05 08:40 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2024-06-05 12:10 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-06-05 17:00 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-05 17:20 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-06-05 17:50 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-05 18:10 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye Anssi Saari <anssi.saari@debian-user.mail.kapsi.fi> - 2024-06-06 11:50 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye Tom Dial <tddial@comcast.net> - 2024-06-05 23:50 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-06-06 04:00 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye Tom Dial <tddial@comcast.net> - 2024-06-07 00:00 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-06-07 06:30 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-06-07 07:20 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-07 13:20 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-06-07 14:10 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-06-07 14:10 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-06-07 13:40 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-06-07 23:30 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2024-06-08 00:20 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-06-08 01:20 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye Tom Dial <tddial@comcast.net> - 2024-06-08 03:00 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-06-08 07:50 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2024-06-08 09:30 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-06-08 21:20 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2024-06-09 00:10 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-06-09 08:10 +0200
Snaps and Co [was: about 10th new install of bullseye] <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2024-06-09 07:00 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye Tom Dial <tddial@comcast.net> - 2024-06-09 01:30 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-06-09 08:20 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2024-06-09 14:00 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2024-06-09 15:00 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-06-09 16:20 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye Tom Dial <tddial@comcast.net> - 2024-06-09 22:10 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye BUT its not Bullseye, its bookworm! gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-06-05 17:30 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bookworm! Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2024-06-06 00:50 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bookworm! gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-06-06 04:10 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bookworm! Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2024-06-06 04:30 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye BUT its not Bullseye, its bookworm! David Christensen <dpchrist@holgerdanske.com> - 2024-06-06 03:00 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2024-06-05 19:20 +0200
Re: about 10th new install of bullseye gene heskett <gheskett@shentel.net> - 2024-06-05 23:10 +0200
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