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Re: Is this safe?

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Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> writes:

> Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> writes:

[what does it mean for a function to "meet its specification"?]

>> This is where you get trapped by C's misuse of the term "function".
>> If the term "function" were used in the proper mathematical sense,
>> then the program's memory would be in one state on function entry
>> and another on function return, and so you can't have a function
>> without a specification.
>
> No, that's not the issue.  Of course it would help if functions
> were functions, but the terminology is not the issue here.  A sin
> function (in some unimpeachable language like Haskell) that did
> all sorts of other computations and took an hour, or used half the
> available memory, would not meet the specification because, in my
> book, the specification should be taken to be minimal.
>
>> But C "functions" can perform actions.  Specifying correct actions
>> is a whole different ball game to specifying functions, which are
>> just mappings from one set to another.
>
> So lets' call them all "procedures" for the moment and get back to
> the question at hand.  Should a specification be taken to be
> essentially minimal?  I would say so.

I don't exactly agree with this view.  Certainly there are some
kinds of behaviors (in the general sense of the word) that are
implied and meant to be understood as part of what is required
for how a function behaves (again in the general sense of the
word), but not so much that the specification should be taken to
be "essentially minimal".  Consider for example the C library
function qsort(), as specified in the ISO C standard.  I'm sure
most people expect that qsort() mustn't do "anything more" than
sort the array, e.g., it must not change the state of an input
file, or change an unrelated byte of memory, etc.  But there are
no requirements on "invisible" behaviors such as how fast the
code runs or how much memory is taken.  We might be disappointed
if qsort() uses an O( N**3 ) algorithm, but that disappointment
is not because the specification is not met.  Also compare with
the C++ standard.  When there are runtime requirements of O(1)
or O(N) or O(N log N), etc, the C++ standard states these bounds
explicitly;  they are not implied or tacitly assumed.

By the way, qsort() is an interesting example because of expected
memory usage.  I think most people would not be surprised to learn
that qsort() uses (in some implementations) O(log N) stack space.
But this amount of memory is not necessary.  There are, IIANM,
sorting algorithms that are O(N log N) in runtime and O(1) in
memory usage.  Does a qsort() implementation that uses a standard
quicksort algorithm violate the "essentially minimal" threshold?
I think most people would agree that it meets the specification
given in the C standard.

I guess my stance on this is that the burden falls on whoever is
responsible for writing the specification.  Any needed conditions
must be stated explicitly, somewhere, at least informally.  We
should never have to rely on the reader having the same set of
builtin assumptions that the author has.

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Thread

Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-20 16:45 +0000
  Re: Is this safe? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-02-20 18:34 +0100
    Re: Is this safe? Chris Vine <vine24683579@gmail.com> - 2023-02-20 11:16 -0800
      Re: Is this safe? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-02-20 21:39 +0100
        Re: Is this safe? Chris Vine <vine24683579@gmail.com> - 2023-02-20 12:56 -0800
          Re: Is this safe? Tony Oliver <guinness.tony@gmail.com> - 2023-02-20 16:17 -0800
            Re: Is this safe? Manu Raju <MR@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-21 01:57 +0000
              Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-21 09:15 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2023-02-21 12:31 +0200
          Re: Is this safe? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-02-21 05:36 +0100
            Re: Is this safe? Chris Vine <vine24683579@gmail.com> - 2023-02-21 02:19 -0800
              Re: Is this safe? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-02-21 14:16 +0100
                Re: Is this safe? Ralf Goertz <me@myprovider.invalid> - 2023-02-21 14:40 +0100
                Re: Is this safe? Chris Vine <vine24683579@gmail.com> - 2023-02-21 05:51 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2023-02-21 15:58 +0200
                Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-21 14:55 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2023-02-21 19:02 +0200
                Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-21 17:13 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2023-02-21 19:58 +0200
                Re: Is this safe? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-02-21 12:15 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2023-02-21 23:41 +0200
                Re: Is this safe? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-03-03 12:57 -0800
      Re: Is this safe? Tony Oliver <guinness.tony@gmail.com> - 2023-02-20 16:14 -0800
        Re: Is this safe? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-02-20 23:48 -0500
      Re: Is this safe? Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2023-02-21 00:05 -0800
    Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-21 09:14 +0000
  Re: Is this safe? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-02-20 21:18 -0500
  Re: Is this safe? Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2023-02-20 20:38 -0800
    Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-21 09:18 +0000
      Re: Is this safe? "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach@gmail.com> - 2023-02-21 15:12 +0100
        Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-21 14:53 +0000
          Re: Is this safe? "james...@alumni.caltech.edu" <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-02-21 10:35 -0800
            Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-22 09:25 +0000
              Re: Is this safe? "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach@gmail.com> - 2023-02-22 22:33 +0100
                Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-23 09:25 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2023-02-23 07:05 -0800
              Re: Is this safe? "james...@alumni.caltech.edu" <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-02-22 21:21 -0800
              Re: Is this safe? Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2023-02-23 09:39 +0200
                Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-23 09:35 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2023-02-23 12:30 +0200
                Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-23 10:34 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2023-02-23 13:20 +0200
                Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-23 16:00 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2023-02-23 18:24 +0200
                Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-23 16:28 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2023-02-23 19:01 +0200
                Re: Is this safe? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-02-23 11:57 -0500
                Re: Is this safe? Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2023-02-23 19:12 +0200
                Re: Is this safe? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-02-23 11:57 -0500
                Re: Is this safe? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-02-23 12:20 -0500
                Re: Is this safe? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-02-24 02:15 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-02-24 15:24 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-02-24 02:14 -0500
                Re: Is this safe? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-02-23 07:18 -0500
                Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-23 16:01 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-02-23 11:50 -0500
                Re: Is this safe? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-02-23 14:41 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-02-23 19:44 +0100
                Re: Is this safe? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-02-23 15:02 +0100
                Re: Is this safe? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-02-23 14:49 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-02-23 16:25 +0100
                Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-23 16:10 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-02-23 20:46 +0100
                Re: Is this safe? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-02-23 20:05 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-02-23 14:48 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-02-23 22:12 -0500
                Re: Is this safe? Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2023-02-24 10:49 +0200
                Re: Is this safe? Ralf Fassel <ralfixx@gmx.de> - 2023-02-24 11:36 +0100
                Re: Is this safe? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-02-24 15:39 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-24 10:29 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-02-24 17:20 +0100
                Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-24 17:09 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-02-24 17:32 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-25 11:56 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-02-25 16:04 +0100
                Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-25 15:47 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-02-25 19:13 +0100
                Re: Is this safe? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-02-25 19:00 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-27 08:43 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-02-27 10:31 +0100
                Re: Is this safe? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-02-25 16:40 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-02-24 18:42 +0100
                Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-25 11:58 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-02-25 16:25 +0100
                Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-25 15:45 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-02-25 19:15 +0100
                Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-27 08:44 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-02-27 10:40 +0100
                Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-27 10:24 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-02-27 18:31 +0100
                Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-28 08:38 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2023-02-28 01:33 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-28 10:17 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2023-02-28 02:43 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-02-28 16:50 +0100
                Re: Is this safe? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-02-28 03:19 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-02-28 08:10 -0500
                Re: Is this safe? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-02-28 05:42 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-02-28 09:39 -0500
                Re: Is this safe? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-02-28 07:12 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-02-28 11:29 -0500
                Re: Is this safe? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-02-28 16:45 +0100
                Re: Is this safe? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-02-28 11:31 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-02-28 20:59 +0100
                Re: Is this safe? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-03-01 14:29 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-02-28 16:37 +0100
                Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-28 15:56 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-02-28 18:34 +0100
                Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-03-01 09:37 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-03-01 02:29 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-03-01 19:56 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-03-01 12:53 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-03-01 21:13 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-03-02 01:48 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-03-03 21:44 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-03-03 20:16 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-03-04 22:55 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-03-05 07:11 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-03-05 20:44 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? Mr Flibble <flibble2@reddwarf.jmc.corp> - 2023-03-05 21:00 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-03-05 13:59 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? Mr Flibble <flibble2@reddwarf.jmc.corp> - 2023-03-05 23:07 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-03-06 00:22 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-03-05 14:26 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-03-06 00:51 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-03-06 02:17 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-03-05 08:13 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-03-05 09:05 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-03-14 09:47 -0700
                Re: Is this safe? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-03-01 14:40 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-03-02 09:07 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-03-01 21:37 -0500
                Re: Is this safe? Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2023-03-01 22:30 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-03-01 14:27 +0100
                Re: Is this safe? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-03-01 10:48 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-03-02 10:29 +0100
                Re: Is this safe? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-03-01 19:53 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-03-02 09:08 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-03-02 01:32 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-03-02 09:56 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2023-03-02 04:02 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-03-02 15:00 +0100
                Re: Is this safe? Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2023-03-02 07:59 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-03-02 15:38 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? "james...@alumni.caltech.edu" <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-03-02 11:16 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? "james...@alumni.caltech.edu" <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-03-02 11:08 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-03-03 09:53 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? "james...@alumni.caltech.edu" <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-03-04 06:47 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-03-02 19:35 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach@gmail.com> - 2023-02-28 17:40 +0100
                Re: Is this safe? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-02-24 12:16 -0500
                Re: Is this safe? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-02-24 18:39 +0100
                Re: Is this safe? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-02-24 10:03 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-02-24 19:59 +0100
                Re: Is this safe? "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach@gmail.com> - 2023-02-25 06:47 +0100
                Re: Is this safe? Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2023-02-25 10:23 +0200
                Re: Is this safe? Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2023-02-23 07:16 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-02-23 14:31 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach@gmail.com> - 2023-02-23 16:34 +0100
                Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-23 16:15 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach@gmail.com> - 2023-02-24 12:17 +0100
                Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-24 12:24 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2023-02-24 15:18 +0200
                Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-24 15:55 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2023-02-24 18:20 +0200
                Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-24 17:05 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2023-02-24 19:24 +0200
                Re: Is this safe? "james...@alumni.caltech.edu" <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-02-24 09:46 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-02-24 17:30 +0100
                Re: Is this safe? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-02-23 17:12 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2023-02-23 02:47 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-23 15:59 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-02-23 11:55 -0500
                Re: Is this safe? "james...@alumni.caltech.edu" <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-02-23 08:37 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-02-23 14:19 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-02-23 17:09 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-02-23 12:21 -0500
                Re: Is this safe? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-02-23 17:55 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-02-23 13:57 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2023-02-23 17:28 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-02-23 21:44 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-02-24 08:48 -0800
          Re: Is this safe? "james...@alumni.caltech.edu" <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-02-21 10:58 -0800
            Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-22 09:26 +0000
              Re: Is this safe? "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach@gmail.com> - 2023-02-22 22:34 +0100
                Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-23 09:29 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? "james...@alumni.caltech.edu" <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-02-23 08:28 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-23 17:16 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? "james...@alumni.caltech.edu" <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-02-23 22:24 -0800
              Re: Is this safe? "james...@alumni.caltech.edu" <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-02-22 21:30 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-23 09:31 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? "james...@alumni.caltech.edu" <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-02-23 22:00 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-02-23 22:20 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-02-24 01:34 -0500
                Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-24 10:32 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? "james...@alumni.caltech.edu" <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-02-25 00:19 -0800
            Re: Is this safe? Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2023-02-22 08:09 -0800
        Re: Is this safe? Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2023-02-21 22:32 -0800
          Re: Is this safe? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-02-22 08:32 -0800
            Re: Is this safe? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-02-22 09:17 -0800
              Re: Is this safe? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-04-04 23:28 -0700
                Re: Is this safe? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-04-05 11:08 -0700
                Re: Is this safe? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-07-20 09:22 -0700
                Re: Is this safe? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-07-20 16:42 -0700
                Re: Is this safe? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-08-08 05:46 -0700
      Re: Is this safe? Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2023-02-21 08:15 -0800

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