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Groups > comp.lang.c++ > #89227

Re: Is this safe?

From Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk>
Newsgroups comp.lang.c++
Subject Re: Is this safe?
Date 2023-02-23 14:49 +0000
Organization A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID <87k008tp1t.fsf@bsb.me.uk> (permalink)
References (7 earlier) <tt756o$1qfle$1@dont-email.me> <tt7c1d$1r754$1@dont-email.me> <tt7f8f$1rh5j$1@dont-email.me> <tt7ff6$1rj3p$1@dont-email.me> <tt7rmh$1soci$1@dont-email.me>

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David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> writes:

> On 23/02/2023 11:34, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>> On Thu, 23 Feb 2023 12:30:39 +0200
>> Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> wrote:
>>> 23.02.2023 11:35 Muttley@dastardlyhq.com kirjutas:
>>>> On Thu, 23 Feb 2023 09:39:04 +0200
>>>> Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> wrote:
>>>>> 22.02.2023 11:25 Muttley@dastardlyhq.com kirjutas:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Absolute rubbish. Why would UTF8 have anything to do with "safety"? Safety
>>>>>> means will the program crash or have hidden bugs, not whether a string gets
>>>
>>>>>> translated into uppercase properly or not which would be immediately
>>> obvious.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Because you asked: I have seen isdigit() crashing hard on negative
>>>>
>>>> Thats clearly a library bug. All bets are off when they exist.
>>>
>>> What makes you think so? The C standard clearly says in 7.4 (Character
>>> handling <ctype.h>):
>>>
>>> "In all cases the argument is an int, the value of which shall be
>>> representable as an unsigned char or shall equal the value of the macro
>>> EOF. If the argument has any other value, the behavior is undefined."
>>>
>>> Undefined behavior may or may not involve a program crash.
>> I would still consider a crash to be a bug. Undefined would just be
>> returning
>> rubbish. 
>
> Undefined behaviour means there is no define behaviour - crashing is
> entirely plausible.  It doesn't matter what /you/ think about it.  The C 
> standard is quite clear about this - if you pass a valid argument to
> isdigit(), as specified in the standard, you'll get a valid result.  If 
> you pass something invalid, all bets are off and whatever happens is /your/
> problem.
>
> This is so fundamental to the whole concept of programming that I am
> regularly surprised by people who call themselves programmers, yet fail 
> to comprehend it.  A function has a specified input domain, and a specified
> result or behaviour for inputs in that domain.  Move outside that input
> domain, and you are in the realm of nonsense.

This is formally true, but I think we can also legitimately ask to what
extent a function's domain (and the corresponding returned values) are
reasonable and helpful.

> You don't expect particular
> behaviour from 1/0 - maybe you'll get a random value, maybe you'll get a
> crash.  Why you think calling isdigit() with an invalid input should have
> some guarantees is beyond me.  "Garbage in, garbage out" applies to
> behaviour, not just values, and has been understood since Babbage designed
> the first programmable mechanical computer.

Those of us with a background in languages like C are not going to be
confused, but I bet almost everyone who comes to C from a more modern
language will be astonished by what you have to do to get isdigit to
work safely.  To have a character testing function that does not work
for all the values of the language's char type is, well, bonkers.

In Haskell, a program won't even compile unless isDigit is called with
an argument of type Char, and the result is defined to be exactly one
of True or False for all values of that type.

And that brings up another trap for the unwary: C's isdigit returns
something that is only vaguely Boolean.  For example, you can't test if
char c1, c2; are both digits or neither are digits with

  isdigit(c1) == isdigit(c2)

because the value indicating "yes" is not guaranteed to be anything
other than "not zero".  Instead you'd write

  !isdigit((unsigned char)c1) == !isdigit((unsigned char)c2)

I think an occasional nod to how we have got used to such nonsense is
merited!

-- 
Ben.

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Thread

Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-20 16:45 +0000
  Re: Is this safe? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-02-20 18:34 +0100
    Re: Is this safe? Chris Vine <vine24683579@gmail.com> - 2023-02-20 11:16 -0800
      Re: Is this safe? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-02-20 21:39 +0100
        Re: Is this safe? Chris Vine <vine24683579@gmail.com> - 2023-02-20 12:56 -0800
          Re: Is this safe? Tony Oliver <guinness.tony@gmail.com> - 2023-02-20 16:17 -0800
            Re: Is this safe? Manu Raju <MR@invalid.invalid> - 2023-02-21 01:57 +0000
              Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-21 09:15 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2023-02-21 12:31 +0200
          Re: Is this safe? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-02-21 05:36 +0100
            Re: Is this safe? Chris Vine <vine24683579@gmail.com> - 2023-02-21 02:19 -0800
              Re: Is this safe? Bonita Montero <Bonita.Montero@gmail.com> - 2023-02-21 14:16 +0100
                Re: Is this safe? Ralf Goertz <me@myprovider.invalid> - 2023-02-21 14:40 +0100
                Re: Is this safe? Chris Vine <vine24683579@gmail.com> - 2023-02-21 05:51 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2023-02-21 15:58 +0200
                Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-21 14:55 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2023-02-21 19:02 +0200
                Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-21 17:13 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2023-02-21 19:58 +0200
                Re: Is this safe? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-02-21 12:15 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2023-02-21 23:41 +0200
                Re: Is this safe? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-03-03 12:57 -0800
      Re: Is this safe? Tony Oliver <guinness.tony@gmail.com> - 2023-02-20 16:14 -0800
        Re: Is this safe? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-02-20 23:48 -0500
      Re: Is this safe? Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2023-02-21 00:05 -0800
    Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-21 09:14 +0000
  Re: Is this safe? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-02-20 21:18 -0500
  Re: Is this safe? Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2023-02-20 20:38 -0800
    Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-21 09:18 +0000
      Re: Is this safe? "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach@gmail.com> - 2023-02-21 15:12 +0100
        Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-21 14:53 +0000
          Re: Is this safe? "james...@alumni.caltech.edu" <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-02-21 10:35 -0800
            Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-22 09:25 +0000
              Re: Is this safe? "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach@gmail.com> - 2023-02-22 22:33 +0100
                Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-23 09:25 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2023-02-23 07:05 -0800
              Re: Is this safe? "james...@alumni.caltech.edu" <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-02-22 21:21 -0800
              Re: Is this safe? Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2023-02-23 09:39 +0200
                Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-23 09:35 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2023-02-23 12:30 +0200
                Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-23 10:34 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2023-02-23 13:20 +0200
                Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-23 16:00 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2023-02-23 18:24 +0200
                Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-23 16:28 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2023-02-23 19:01 +0200
                Re: Is this safe? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-02-23 11:57 -0500
                Re: Is this safe? Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2023-02-23 19:12 +0200
                Re: Is this safe? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-02-23 11:57 -0500
                Re: Is this safe? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-02-23 12:20 -0500
                Re: Is this safe? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-02-24 02:15 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-02-24 15:24 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-02-24 02:14 -0500
                Re: Is this safe? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-02-23 07:18 -0500
                Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-23 16:01 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-02-23 11:50 -0500
                Re: Is this safe? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-02-23 14:41 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-02-23 19:44 +0100
                Re: Is this safe? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-02-23 15:02 +0100
                Re: Is this safe? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-02-23 14:49 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-02-23 16:25 +0100
                Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-23 16:10 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-02-23 20:46 +0100
                Re: Is this safe? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-02-23 20:05 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-02-23 14:48 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-02-23 22:12 -0500
                Re: Is this safe? Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2023-02-24 10:49 +0200
                Re: Is this safe? Ralf Fassel <ralfixx@gmx.de> - 2023-02-24 11:36 +0100
                Re: Is this safe? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-02-24 15:39 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-24 10:29 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-02-24 17:20 +0100
                Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-24 17:09 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-02-24 17:32 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-25 11:56 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-02-25 16:04 +0100
                Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-25 15:47 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-02-25 19:13 +0100
                Re: Is this safe? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-02-25 19:00 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-27 08:43 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-02-27 10:31 +0100
                Re: Is this safe? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-02-25 16:40 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-02-24 18:42 +0100
                Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-25 11:58 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-02-25 16:25 +0100
                Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-25 15:45 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-02-25 19:15 +0100
                Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-27 08:44 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-02-27 10:40 +0100
                Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-27 10:24 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-02-27 18:31 +0100
                Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-28 08:38 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2023-02-28 01:33 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-28 10:17 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2023-02-28 02:43 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-02-28 16:50 +0100
                Re: Is this safe? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-02-28 03:19 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-02-28 08:10 -0500
                Re: Is this safe? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-02-28 05:42 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-02-28 09:39 -0500
                Re: Is this safe? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-02-28 07:12 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-02-28 11:29 -0500
                Re: Is this safe? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-02-28 16:45 +0100
                Re: Is this safe? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-02-28 11:31 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-02-28 20:59 +0100
                Re: Is this safe? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-03-01 14:29 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-02-28 16:37 +0100
                Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-28 15:56 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-02-28 18:34 +0100
                Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-03-01 09:37 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-03-01 02:29 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-03-01 19:56 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-03-01 12:53 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-03-01 21:13 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-03-02 01:48 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-03-03 21:44 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-03-03 20:16 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-03-04 22:55 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-03-05 07:11 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-03-05 20:44 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? Mr Flibble <flibble2@reddwarf.jmc.corp> - 2023-03-05 21:00 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-03-05 13:59 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? Mr Flibble <flibble2@reddwarf.jmc.corp> - 2023-03-05 23:07 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-03-06 00:22 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-03-05 14:26 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-03-06 00:51 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-03-06 02:17 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-03-05 08:13 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-03-05 09:05 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-03-14 09:47 -0700
                Re: Is this safe? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-03-01 14:40 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-03-02 09:07 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-03-01 21:37 -0500
                Re: Is this safe? Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2023-03-01 22:30 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-03-01 14:27 +0100
                Re: Is this safe? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-03-01 10:48 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-03-02 10:29 +0100
                Re: Is this safe? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-03-01 19:53 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-03-02 09:08 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-03-02 01:32 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-03-02 09:56 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2023-03-02 04:02 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-03-02 15:00 +0100
                Re: Is this safe? Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2023-03-02 07:59 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-03-02 15:38 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? "james...@alumni.caltech.edu" <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-03-02 11:16 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? "james...@alumni.caltech.edu" <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-03-02 11:08 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-03-03 09:53 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? "james...@alumni.caltech.edu" <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-03-04 06:47 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-03-02 19:35 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach@gmail.com> - 2023-02-28 17:40 +0100
                Re: Is this safe? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-02-24 12:16 -0500
                Re: Is this safe? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-02-24 18:39 +0100
                Re: Is this safe? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-02-24 10:03 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-02-24 19:59 +0100
                Re: Is this safe? "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach@gmail.com> - 2023-02-25 06:47 +0100
                Re: Is this safe? Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2023-02-25 10:23 +0200
                Re: Is this safe? Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2023-02-23 07:16 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-02-23 14:31 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach@gmail.com> - 2023-02-23 16:34 +0100
                Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-23 16:15 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach@gmail.com> - 2023-02-24 12:17 +0100
                Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-24 12:24 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2023-02-24 15:18 +0200
                Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-24 15:55 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2023-02-24 18:20 +0200
                Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-24 17:05 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2023-02-24 19:24 +0200
                Re: Is this safe? "james...@alumni.caltech.edu" <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-02-24 09:46 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-02-24 17:30 +0100
                Re: Is this safe? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-02-23 17:12 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2023-02-23 02:47 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-23 15:59 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-02-23 11:55 -0500
                Re: Is this safe? "james...@alumni.caltech.edu" <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-02-23 08:37 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-02-23 14:19 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-02-23 17:09 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-02-23 12:21 -0500
                Re: Is this safe? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-02-23 17:55 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-02-23 13:57 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2023-02-23 17:28 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-02-23 21:44 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-02-24 08:48 -0800
          Re: Is this safe? "james...@alumni.caltech.edu" <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-02-21 10:58 -0800
            Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-22 09:26 +0000
              Re: Is this safe? "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach@gmail.com> - 2023-02-22 22:34 +0100
                Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-23 09:29 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? "james...@alumni.caltech.edu" <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-02-23 08:28 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-23 17:16 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? "james...@alumni.caltech.edu" <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-02-23 22:24 -0800
              Re: Is this safe? "james...@alumni.caltech.edu" <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-02-22 21:30 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-23 09:31 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? "james...@alumni.caltech.edu" <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-02-23 22:00 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-02-23 22:20 -0800
                Re: Is this safe? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-02-24 01:34 -0500
                Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-24 10:32 +0000
                Re: Is this safe? "james...@alumni.caltech.edu" <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-02-25 00:19 -0800
            Re: Is this safe? Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2023-02-22 08:09 -0800
        Re: Is this safe? Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2023-02-21 22:32 -0800
          Re: Is this safe? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-02-22 08:32 -0800
            Re: Is this safe? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-02-22 09:17 -0800
              Re: Is this safe? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-04-04 23:28 -0700
                Re: Is this safe? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-04-05 11:08 -0700
      Re: Is this safe? Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2023-02-21 08:15 -0800

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