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Groups > comp.lang.c++ > #89367
| From | Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.c++ |
| Subject | Re: Is this safe? |
| Date | 2023-03-01 21:13 +0000 |
| Organization | A noiseless patient Spider |
| Message-ID | <874jr4rx8b.fsf@bsb.me.uk> (permalink) |
| References | (16 earlier) <ttldui$3lmr9$2@dont-email.me> <ttn6dg$3tq9p$1@dont-email.me> <1d5d6324-d5cd-4117-800d-649627a59f57n@googlegroups.com> <87a60ws0ti.fsf@bsb.me.uk> <d068a704-c970-4310-bd5d-c16e6fa8fa4bn@googlegroups.com> |
Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> writes:
> On Wednesday, 1 March 2023 at 19:56:23 UTC, Ben Bacarisse wrote:
>> Malcolm McLean <malcolm.ar...@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>> > On Wednesday, 1 March 2023 at 09:38:08 UTC, Mut...@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>> >> On Tue, 28 Feb 2023 18:34:10 +0100
>> >> David Brown <david...@hesbynett.no> wrote:
>> >> >On 28/02/2023 16:56, Mut...@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>> >> >> A function can follow specifications to the letter and still have hidden
>> >> >> bugs.
>> >> >
>> >> >The /specification/ can have bugs or be inappropriate in some way. The
>> >> >/hardware/ can have bugs. But if a piece of code gives the specified
>> >> >output and effects for the specified inputs, then it is correct and
>> >> >bug-free.
>> >> Really?
>> >>
>> >> Spec: function always returns 10
>> >>
>> >> int func()
>> >> {
>> >> char *ptr = 0;
>> >> for(int i=0;i < 100000;++i) ptr[i] = 0;
>> >> return 10;
>> >> }
>> >>
>> >> Bug free?
>> >>
>> > A better example would be
>> >
>> > int func()
>> > {
>> > char *ptr = malloc(1);
>> > return 10;
>> > }
>> >
>> > This function will always return 10, so it's to specification. But
>> > it's the source of a bug.
>> This is a better example (because it has defined behaviour), but does
>> the function meet the specification? I would say that, speaking
>> informally, specifications are taken to be minimal. Would
>>
>> int func() { getchar(); return 10; }
>>
>> meet the specification as well?
>>
> This is where you get trapped by C's misuse of the term "function".
> If the term "function" were used in the proper mathematical sense,
> then the program's memory would be in one state on function entry and
> another on function return, and so you can't have a function without a
> specification.
No, that's not the issue. Of course it would help if functions were
functions, but the terminology is not the issue here. A sin function
(in some unimpeachable language like Haskell) that did all sorts of
other computations and took an hour, or used half the available memory,
would not meet the specification because, in my book, the specification
should be taken to be minimal.
> But C "functions" can perform actions. Specifying correct actions is a whole
> different ball game to specifying functions, which are just mappings from
> one set to another.
So lets' call them all "procedures" for the moment and get back to the
question at hand. Should a specification be taken to be essentially
minimal? I would say so.
--
Ben.
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Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-20 16:45 +0000
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Re: Is this safe? Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2023-02-21 19:58 +0200
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Re: Is this safe? Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2023-02-21 23:41 +0200
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Re: Is this safe? Tony Oliver <guinness.tony@gmail.com> - 2023-02-20 16:14 -0800
Re: Is this safe? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-02-20 23:48 -0500
Re: Is this safe? Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2023-02-21 00:05 -0800
Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-21 09:14 +0000
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Re: Is this safe? Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2023-02-20 20:38 -0800
Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-21 09:18 +0000
Re: Is this safe? "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach@gmail.com> - 2023-02-21 15:12 +0100
Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-21 14:53 +0000
Re: Is this safe? "james...@alumni.caltech.edu" <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-02-21 10:35 -0800
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Re: Is this safe? "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach@gmail.com> - 2023-02-22 22:33 +0100
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Re: Is this safe? Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2023-02-23 07:05 -0800
Re: Is this safe? "james...@alumni.caltech.edu" <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-02-22 21:21 -0800
Re: Is this safe? Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2023-02-23 09:39 +0200
Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-23 09:35 +0000
Re: Is this safe? Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2023-02-23 12:30 +0200
Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-23 10:34 +0000
Re: Is this safe? Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2023-02-23 13:20 +0200
Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-23 16:00 +0000
Re: Is this safe? Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2023-02-23 18:24 +0200
Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-23 16:28 +0000
Re: Is this safe? Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2023-02-23 19:01 +0200
Re: Is this safe? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-02-23 11:57 -0500
Re: Is this safe? Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2023-02-23 19:12 +0200
Re: Is this safe? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-02-23 11:57 -0500
Re: Is this safe? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-02-23 12:20 -0500
Re: Is this safe? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-02-24 02:15 +0000
Re: Is this safe? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-02-24 15:24 -0800
Re: Is this safe? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-02-24 02:14 -0500
Re: Is this safe? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-02-23 07:18 -0500
Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-23 16:01 +0000
Re: Is this safe? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-02-23 11:50 -0500
Re: Is this safe? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-02-23 14:41 -0800
Re: Is this safe? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-02-23 19:44 +0100
Re: Is this safe? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-02-23 15:02 +0100
Re: Is this safe? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-02-23 14:49 +0000
Re: Is this safe? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-02-23 16:25 +0100
Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-23 16:10 +0000
Re: Is this safe? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-02-23 20:46 +0100
Re: Is this safe? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-02-23 20:05 +0000
Re: Is this safe? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-02-23 14:48 -0800
Re: Is this safe? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-02-23 22:12 -0500
Re: Is this safe? Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2023-02-24 10:49 +0200
Re: Is this safe? Ralf Fassel <ralfixx@gmx.de> - 2023-02-24 11:36 +0100
Re: Is this safe? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-02-24 15:39 +0000
Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-24 10:29 +0000
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Re: Is this safe? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-02-24 17:32 +0000
Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-25 11:56 +0000
Re: Is this safe? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-02-25 16:04 +0100
Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-25 15:47 +0000
Re: Is this safe? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-02-25 19:13 +0100
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Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-27 08:43 +0000
Re: Is this safe? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-02-27 10:31 +0100
Re: Is this safe? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-02-25 16:40 +0000
Re: Is this safe? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-02-24 18:42 +0100
Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-25 11:58 +0000
Re: Is this safe? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-02-25 16:25 +0100
Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-25 15:45 +0000
Re: Is this safe? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-02-25 19:15 +0100
Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-27 08:44 +0000
Re: Is this safe? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-02-27 10:40 +0100
Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-27 10:24 +0000
Re: Is this safe? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-02-27 18:31 +0100
Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-28 08:38 +0000
Re: Is this safe? Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2023-02-28 01:33 -0800
Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-28 10:17 +0000
Re: Is this safe? Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2023-02-28 02:43 -0800
Re: Is this safe? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-02-28 16:50 +0100
Re: Is this safe? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-02-28 03:19 -0800
Re: Is this safe? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-02-28 08:10 -0500
Re: Is this safe? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-02-28 05:42 -0800
Re: Is this safe? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-02-28 09:39 -0500
Re: Is this safe? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-02-28 07:12 -0800
Re: Is this safe? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-02-28 11:29 -0500
Re: Is this safe? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-02-28 16:45 +0100
Re: Is this safe? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-02-28 11:31 -0800
Re: Is this safe? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-02-28 20:59 +0100
Re: Is this safe? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-03-01 14:29 -0800
Re: Is this safe? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-02-28 16:37 +0100
Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-28 15:56 +0000
Re: Is this safe? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-02-28 18:34 +0100
Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-03-01 09:37 +0000
Re: Is this safe? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-03-01 02:29 -0800
Re: Is this safe? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-03-01 19:56 +0000
Re: Is this safe? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-03-01 12:53 -0800
Re: Is this safe? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-03-01 21:13 +0000
Re: Is this safe? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-03-02 01:48 -0800
Re: Is this safe? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-03-03 21:44 +0000
Re: Is this safe? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-03-03 20:16 -0800
Re: Is this safe? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-03-04 22:55 +0000
Re: Is this safe? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-03-05 07:11 -0800
Re: Is this safe? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-03-05 20:44 +0000
Re: Is this safe? Mr Flibble <flibble2@reddwarf.jmc.corp> - 2023-03-05 21:00 +0000
Re: Is this safe? "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2023-03-05 13:59 -0800
Re: Is this safe? Mr Flibble <flibble2@reddwarf.jmc.corp> - 2023-03-05 23:07 +0000
Re: Is this safe? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-03-06 00:22 +0000
Re: Is this safe? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-03-05 14:26 -0800
Re: Is this safe? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-03-06 00:51 +0000
Re: Is this safe? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-03-06 02:17 -0800
Re: Is this safe? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-03-05 08:13 -0800
Re: Is this safe? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-03-05 09:05 -0800
Re: Is this safe? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-03-14 09:47 -0700
Re: Is this safe? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-03-01 14:40 -0800
Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-03-02 09:07 +0000
Re: Is this safe? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-03-01 21:37 -0500
Re: Is this safe? Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2023-03-01 22:30 -0800
Re: Is this safe? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-03-01 14:27 +0100
Re: Is this safe? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-03-01 10:48 -0800
Re: Is this safe? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-03-02 10:29 +0100
Re: Is this safe? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-03-01 19:53 +0000
Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-03-02 09:08 +0000
Re: Is this safe? Malcolm McLean <malcolm.arthur.mclean@gmail.com> - 2023-03-02 01:32 -0800
Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-03-02 09:56 +0000
Re: Is this safe? Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2023-03-02 04:02 -0800
Re: Is this safe? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-03-02 15:00 +0100
Re: Is this safe? Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2023-03-02 07:59 -0800
Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-03-02 15:38 +0000
Re: Is this safe? "james...@alumni.caltech.edu" <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-03-02 11:16 -0800
Re: Is this safe? "james...@alumni.caltech.edu" <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-03-02 11:08 -0800
Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-03-03 09:53 +0000
Re: Is this safe? "james...@alumni.caltech.edu" <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-03-04 06:47 -0800
Re: Is this safe? Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2023-03-02 19:35 +0000
Re: Is this safe? "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach@gmail.com> - 2023-02-28 17:40 +0100
Re: Is this safe? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-02-24 12:16 -0500
Re: Is this safe? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-02-24 18:39 +0100
Re: Is this safe? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-02-24 10:03 -0800
Re: Is this safe? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-02-24 19:59 +0100
Re: Is this safe? "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach@gmail.com> - 2023-02-25 06:47 +0100
Re: Is this safe? Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2023-02-25 10:23 +0200
Re: Is this safe? Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2023-02-23 07:16 -0800
Re: Is this safe? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-02-23 14:31 -0800
Re: Is this safe? "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach@gmail.com> - 2023-02-23 16:34 +0100
Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-23 16:15 +0000
Re: Is this safe? "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach@gmail.com> - 2023-02-24 12:17 +0100
Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-24 12:24 +0000
Re: Is this safe? Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2023-02-24 15:18 +0200
Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-24 15:55 +0000
Re: Is this safe? Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2023-02-24 18:20 +0200
Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-24 17:05 +0000
Re: Is this safe? Paavo Helde <eesnimi@osa.pri.ee> - 2023-02-24 19:24 +0200
Re: Is this safe? "james...@alumni.caltech.edu" <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-02-24 09:46 -0800
Re: Is this safe? David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2023-02-24 17:30 +0100
Re: Is this safe? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-02-23 17:12 +0000
Re: Is this safe? Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee> - 2023-02-23 02:47 -0800
Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-23 15:59 +0000
Re: Is this safe? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-02-23 11:55 -0500
Re: Is this safe? "james...@alumni.caltech.edu" <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-02-23 08:37 -0800
Re: Is this safe? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-02-23 14:19 -0800
Re: Is this safe? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-02-23 17:09 +0000
Re: Is this safe? Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2023-02-23 12:21 -0500
Re: Is this safe? scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2023-02-23 17:55 +0000
Re: Is this safe? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-02-23 13:57 -0800
Re: Is this safe? Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2023-02-23 17:28 -0800
Re: Is this safe? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-02-23 21:44 -0800
Re: Is this safe? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-02-24 08:48 -0800
Re: Is this safe? "james...@alumni.caltech.edu" <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-02-21 10:58 -0800
Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-22 09:26 +0000
Re: Is this safe? "Alf P. Steinbach" <alf.p.steinbach@gmail.com> - 2023-02-22 22:34 +0100
Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-23 09:29 +0000
Re: Is this safe? "james...@alumni.caltech.edu" <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-02-23 08:28 -0800
Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-23 17:16 +0000
Re: Is this safe? "james...@alumni.caltech.edu" <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-02-23 22:24 -0800
Re: Is this safe? "james...@alumni.caltech.edu" <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-02-22 21:30 -0800
Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-23 09:31 +0000
Re: Is this safe? "james...@alumni.caltech.edu" <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-02-23 22:00 -0800
Re: Is this safe? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-02-23 22:20 -0800
Re: Is this safe? James Kuyper <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-02-24 01:34 -0500
Re: Is this safe? Muttley@dastardlyhq.com - 2023-02-24 10:32 +0000
Re: Is this safe? "james...@alumni.caltech.edu" <jameskuyper@alumni.caltech.edu> - 2023-02-25 00:19 -0800
Re: Is this safe? Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2023-02-22 08:09 -0800
Re: Is this safe? Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2023-02-21 22:32 -0800
Re: Is this safe? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-02-22 08:32 -0800
Re: Is this safe? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-02-22 09:17 -0800
Re: Is this safe? Tim Rentsch <tr.17687@z991.linuxsc.com> - 2023-04-04 23:28 -0700
Re: Is this safe? Keith Thompson <Keith.S.Thompson+u@gmail.com> - 2023-04-05 11:08 -0700
Re: Is this safe? Andrey Tarasevich <andreytarasevich@hotmail.com> - 2023-02-21 08:15 -0800
csiph-web