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Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #156564

Re: I Feel Old

From Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid>
Newsgroups alt.folklore.computers
Subject Re: I Feel Old
Date 2016-01-13 01:27 +0100
Organization Me, Myself and I
Message-ID <38igmc-5aa.ln1@sambook.reistad.name> (permalink)
References <9dcde262-7129-4a8f-b034-105b67d61cf5@googlegroups.com> <n6eg6f$4ec$1@dont-email.me> <df03rjF76smU1@mid.individual.net> <n7435h$gfp$1@dont-email.me>

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In article <n7435h$gfp$1@dont-email.me>,
Stephen Sprunk  <stephen@sprunk.org> wrote:
>On 04-Jan-16 14:43, Osmium wrote:
>> "Stephen Sprunk" wrote:
>>> You may hear about 401(k), 403(b), IRA or other retirement plans;
>>> these are often mistakenly called pensions, but they're not.
>>> What's relevant here is that their funds _are_ held in trust by a
>>> third party, unlike pensions (other than the GM/UAW exception).
>> 
>> When 401Ks started being popular my employer gave me a packet of 
>> literature about this new "retirement plan"  I read it over and over 
>> and over and never did find a retirement plan. ... It was a plan to
>> accumulate a pile of money, if you chose to you could, havling the
>> pile, buy an annuity and have a simulated retirement plan.
>
>You seem to be equating "retirement plan" with "life annuity", but the
>latter is a subset; the former includes _any_ plan to provide income
>during retirement.
>
>Rather than cashing out and buying a life annuity with said pile of
>money, you could simply leave it invested in the market and take out a
>portion when you need some--and at much lower tax rates.  Whatever is
>left over when you die goes to your designated beneficiary(ies).
>
>(For those not familiar with life annuities, they're essentially the
>opposite of life insurance: they pay out when you _don't_ die.)
>
>> But from everything I saw, actually buying an annuity is a very
>> poor choice for most people.
>
>The main benefit of a life annuity is protecting against the risk of
>living longer than expected.  However, buying insurance has a cost in
>itself, and there's nothing left over when you do die.
>
>Pensions are essentially life annuities run by employers as a sideline
>rather than by an insurance company as its core competency.  Does that
>really sound like a good idea if you're looking for security?

Only in America. This is forbidden, or so regulated it in practice is.
Having the employer manage the pension fund, that is. Almost every other
western country has strict rules for the management of these. Even a 
bank or a brokerage needs chinese walls between itself and the fund.

There are, in most places, also clear limits to how much of the fund
payment that can go to buy the company shares; with limits on the order
of 15% or so. 

>> It drove me absolutely crazy that they couldn't have some English
>> speaking person do their write-up.
>
>I never had a problem reading the materials that my employers or plan
>administrators gave me.  They didn't provide much direction in _how_ to
>invest within the plan, but there's no shortage of advice floating
>around the Web, and I've beaten the market every year for nearly 20
>years with maybe an hour of work.  OTOH, every year the best Wall St
>analysts lose to a monkey throwing darts, so it's not that tough.

There are two main ways to try to beat the market. One works, reliably; the
other doesn't; just as reliably. Stock picking; i.e. predicting which
company/bond/fund will outperform the rest does not. Instrument picking; 
i.e. choosing cash, bonds, real estate, stocks to match the business
cycle does. Almost everyone can tell where on the "cycle clock" you are, 
within 1-2 "hours"; and that is plenty to beat the market. 

At the recession side, 6 is the bottom, 9 is the recovery, 12 is the top.
And 3 is the way down. I would say the US is at an 8, somewhat wavering;
but the top may be passed in a few months. It is pretty easy to get a feel
for where you are in this cycle; everyone sees so much of this that almost
everyone gets the timing within 1-2 "hours".

From around 6:30 to 11:30 hold stocks. They generally outperform everything
else, but they only move ahead ca from 7 till 11. Otherwise stay in bonds or
cash. When interest rates go down the bonds go up. Interest rates go up until 
ca 3:00, and then drop sharply; so stay in bonds during the dip. Get in at
around 2:30.

You can also generally get good interest on bonds, so they are sensible
except when outperformed by stocks; or just on the very top of the cycle.
They are a lot less volatile than stocks, so if in doubt go for bonds.

This is an investment strategy that is forbidden for the large volume of
managed funds out there. Allowing it for the large portfolios would wreck
total havoc with the markets. But for your own, private 401 you can go right
ahead. Most funds have fixed ratios; 40:50:10 is pretty standard; 40% stocks, 
50% bonds and 10 varying (cash, stocks, bonds).

-- mrr

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I Feel Old Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-01 10:49 -0800
  Re: I Feel Old "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-01 13:33 -0600
    Re: I Feel Old Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-01 12:05 -0800
      Re: I Feel Old Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-01-02 04:41 -0400
        Re: I Feel Old "Joe Morris" <j.c.morris@verizon.net> - 2016-01-02 11:50 -0500
          Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-02 17:14 +0000
          Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-02 17:36 -0800
            Re: I Feel Old John Garza <john@127.0.0.1> - 2016-01-03 08:07 -0600
              Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-03 15:06 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-03 11:05 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-01-03 17:59 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-03 18:08 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-04 06:44 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-04 12:24 +0000
              Re: I Feel Old Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-01-03 09:45 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Lon <lon.stowell@comcast.net> - 2016-01-03 13:12 -0700
                Re: I Feel Old Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-01-03 16:56 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-03 14:27 -0800
              Re: I Feel Old Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-01-03 23:53 +0000
              Re: I Feel Old John Garza <john@127.0.0.1> - 2016-01-04 07:42 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-04 14:32 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-01-04 16:55 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-01-04 11:41 -0500
            Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-03 17:37 +0100
            Re: I Feel Old Lon <lon.stowell@comcast.net> - 2016-01-03 13:11 -0700
              Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-04 07:48 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-01-04 16:01 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-04 16:23 +0000
            Re: I Feel Old Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-01-03 17:30 -0400
      Re: I Feel Old "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-04 14:55 -0600
        Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-04 13:15 -0800
          Re: I Feel Old "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-05 14:59 -0600
            Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-05 13:31 -0800
            Re: I Feel Old Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com> - 2016-01-05 22:11 -0600
        Re: I Feel Old Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-04 17:07 -0800
      Re: I Feel Old philo <philo@privacy.net> - 2016-01-06 19:21 -0600
  Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-01 21:33 +0000
    Re: I Feel Old mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-01 22:52 +0000
    Re: I Feel Old Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-01 15:57 -0800
      Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-01 20:52 -0800
        Re: I Feel Old Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-01-02 00:45 -0500
        Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-02 06:40 +0000
          Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-02 17:25 -0800
            Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-03 08:18 +0000
            Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-03 07:26 -0500
              Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-04 07:34 -0800
        Re: I Feel Old mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-02 14:27 +0000
          Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-02 17:28 -0800
            Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-02 19:56 -0600
              Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-03 07:26 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-01-03 10:00 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-01-17 08:48 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-04 07:44 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-04 13:42 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-05 11:15 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-06 11:27 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-01-06 12:02 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-01-06 18:52 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-06 18:06 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-07 12:04 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-07 09:22 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-13 15:55 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-07 09:36 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-01-07 17:47 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-07 18:47 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-07 19:23 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-08 10:58 +0100
                Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-08 06:37 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-08 15:53 +0100
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-08 11:26 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old "879" <879@nospam.com> - 2016-01-09 09:53 +1100
                Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-09 11:24 +0100
                Re: I Feel Old "879" <879@nospam.com> - 2016-01-10 06:06 +1100
                Re: I Feel Old Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-01-08 10:13 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-01-08 17:42 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-09 07:30 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-01-09 07:07 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-09 11:55 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-09 15:40 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old "jack" <jkl8976@nospam.com> - 2016-01-10 06:13 +1100
                Re: I Feel Old Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com> - 2016-01-09 13:36 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-01-09 15:30 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-01-08 10:43 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-08 10:33 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-08 10:46 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-08 10:59 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-08 10:44 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-01-08 22:53 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old "879" <879@nospam.com> - 2016-01-09 12:53 +1100
                Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-09 11:29 +0100
                Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-09 11:26 +0100
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-12 16:22 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old "jack" <jkl8976@nospam.com> - 2016-01-13 10:03 +1100
                Re: I Feel Old "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-01-12 21:01 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old "jack" <jkl8976@nospam.com> - 2016-01-13 14:22 +1100
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-13 10:14 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-13 18:51 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old "jack" <jkl8976@nospam.com> - 2016-01-14 07:02 +1100
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-13 13:06 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old "879" <879@nospam.com> - 2016-01-09 09:51 +1100
                Re: I Feel Old "879" <879@nospam.com> - 2016-01-09 06:01 +1100
                Re: I Feel Old Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-01-08 13:21 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-01-08 20:58 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old "Jack Myers" <jmyers@n6wuz.net> - 2016-01-08 20:36 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-09 11:31 +0100
                Re: I Feel Old Lawrence Statton <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-01-09 18:33 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-09 07:30 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-09 12:59 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-09 15:31 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-09 17:22 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-09 17:07 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-10 11:25 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-11 17:08 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-12 07:43 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-01-12 08:44 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-12 09:52 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-12 12:28 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-12 10:58 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-12 14:49 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-12 13:57 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-12 18:19 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-01-12 17:37 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-01-12 18:46 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-01-08 16:08 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Lawrence Statton <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-01-09 18:38 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-09 21:43 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-01-09 22:56 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-11 23:49 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-12 07:46 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-12 11:28 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-12 14:58 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-12 14:01 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-12 16:42 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-01-12 22:07 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-08 10:36 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-09 05:04 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-01-11 14:48 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-01-11 17:28 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-11 19:01 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-09 07:30 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-09 16:59 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-01-07 13:13 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-07 18:55 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-01-08 17:40 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-08 23:20 +0000
              Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-04 07:29 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-04 18:30 +0100
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-04 10:59 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-04 19:48 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-05 06:27 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-05 16:26 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-01-05 12:27 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-05 11:08 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-04 13:14 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-01-04 14:43 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-01-04 22:38 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-12 17:47 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-13 01:27 +0100
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-13 11:18 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Lawrence Statton <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-01-13 19:05 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-13 20:22 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-14 14:09 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-01-15 14:51 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-15 09:48 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-15 17:26 +0100
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-15 13:19 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-01-15 09:20 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-01-15 17:44 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-15 12:57 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-19 12:42 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-19 15:27 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-15 19:15 +0100
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-15 13:44 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-01-15 15:02 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old "jack" <jkl8976@nospam.com> - 2016-01-16 08:58 +1100
                Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-15 23:51 +0100
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-17 16:01 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-15 17:11 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-16 08:03 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-01-16 08:29 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old "jack" <jkl8976@nospam.com> - 2016-01-17 03:38 +1100
                Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-16 15:32 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-16 16:59 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-16 16:45 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-01-17 02:11 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old "jack" <jkl8976@nospam.com> - 2016-01-17 14:02 +1100
                Re: I Feel Old Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-01-17 14:22 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old "jack" <jkl8976@nospam.com> - 2016-01-18 05:09 +1100
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-17 15:00 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-01-18 03:59 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-16 16:15 +0100
                Re: I Feel Old mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-17 11:39 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old "jack" <jkl8976@nospam.com> - 2016-01-18 04:41 +1100
                Re: I Feel Old mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-16 16:33 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-01-16 11:19 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-16 18:36 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-01-16 17:23 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-16 13:01 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-16 20:55 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-01-16 14:53 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-17 05:43 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-16 19:50 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-17 09:22 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-01-17 14:33 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-17 15:19 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-01-17 19:27 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-17 15:00 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-16 15:32 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-16 22:49 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old "jack" <jkl8976@nospam.com> - 2016-01-17 16:12 +1100
                Re: I Feel Old mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-17 11:32 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-17 12:06 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-17 09:22 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-01-17 10:05 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-01-17 15:26 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-01-18 05:14 +1100
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-17 15:38 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-01-16 14:09 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-16 15:19 +0100
                Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-15 19:29 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-01-15 14:25 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old "jack" <jkl8976@nospam.com> - 2016-01-14 13:46 +1100
                Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-14 05:17 +0100
                Re: I Feel Old Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-01-14 13:11 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-01-04 22:37 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-01-05 04:44 -0400
                Re: I Feel Old Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-01-05 18:46 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-05 11:06 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-01-05 18:46 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-04 17:04 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-01-04 17:36 -0800
      Re: I Feel Old jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-01-02 15:01 +0000
        Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-02 15:58 +0000
          Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-04 06:40 -0500
            Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-04 12:31 +0000
              Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-04 22:06 -0500
        Re: I Feel Old "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-01-03 07:09 +1100
      Re: I Feel Old Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2016-01-03 12:11 -0500
        Re: I Feel Old Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-03 20:42 -0800
          Re: I Feel Old "jack" <jkl8976@nospam.com> - 2016-01-04 16:43 +1100
          Re: I Feel Old Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2016-01-05 22:05 -0500
        Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-04 18:21 +0100
          Re: I Feel Old Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-01-04 17:47 +0000
          Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-04 16:10 -0500
            Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-04 13:26 -0800
              Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-04 21:57 -0500
          Re: I Feel Old Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2016-01-06 19:46 -0500
            Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-07 12:04 -0500
              Re: I Feel Old Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-01-07 17:36 +0000
              Re: I Feel Old Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-01-07 13:43 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old "879" <879@nospam.com> - 2016-01-08 15:35 +1100
                Re: I Feel Old Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-01-08 00:15 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old "879" <879@nospam.com> - 2016-01-08 19:41 +1100
              Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-07 12:44 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-07 21:32 +0000
      Re: I Feel Old "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-05 14:51 -0600
        Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-05 12:59 -0800
          Re: I Feel Old Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-01-05 22:17 +0000
            Re: I Feel Old "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-08 14:35 -0600
        Re: I Feel Old Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-01-05 22:17 +0000
          Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-05 19:24 -0500
            Re: I Feel Old Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-05 17:31 -0800
              Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-06 07:38 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-06 06:50 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-06 13:26 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-06 05:49 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-06 14:32 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-06 07:13 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-06 16:08 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-08 14:39 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Lawrence Statton <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-01-06 09:14 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-06 10:22 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-15 17:45 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-06 18:42 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-01-06 14:20 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-06 14:34 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-01-06 19:52 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-06 12:35 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-06 20:54 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-06 18:44 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-01-06 23:48 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-06 19:38 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-01-07 07:46 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-07 06:44 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-01-09 21:47 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-10 05:45 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-10 12:18 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-10 08:12 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-10 13:40 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-07 12:04 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-07 08:15 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-06 05:48 -0800
              Re: I Feel Old Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-01-06 11:29 -0500
              Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-06 10:20 -0800
            Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-05 20:52 -0500
              Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-06 06:54 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-01-06 11:34 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-06 18:40 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-06 18:39 -0500
              Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-06 10:22 -0800
              Re: I Feel Old "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-15 17:43 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-01-18 20:13 -0600
          Re: I Feel Old Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-01-06 11:26 -0500
          Re: I Feel Old "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-08 14:37 -0600
            Re: I Feel Old mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-08 23:25 +0000
    Re: I Feel Old Freddy1 <something@something.com> - 2016-01-02 21:35 -0500
      Re: I Feel Old Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-01-03 05:34 +0000
      Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-03 08:33 +0000
        Re: I Feel Old Freddy1 <something@something.com> - 2016-01-03 15:17 -0500
        Re: I Feel Old Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-01-03 20:52 -0800
          Re: I Feel Old Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-04 05:09 -0800
            Re: I Feel Old "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-05 14:57 -0600
  Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-01 20:46 -0800
    Re: I Feel Old Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2016-01-02 07:00 +0000
      Re: I Feel Old Louis Krupp <lkrupp@nospam.pssw.com.invalid> - 2016-01-02 01:44 -0700
      Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-02 13:46 -0800
    Re: I Feel Old Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-01-02 09:11 -0800
  Re: I Feel Old Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com> - 2016-01-02 11:49 -0600
  Re: I Feel Old John Garza <john@127.0.0.1> - 2016-01-03 08:14 -0600
    Re: I Feel Old mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-03 17:11 +0000

csiph-web