Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #155896

Re: I Feel Old

From	Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org>
Newsgroups	alt.folklore.computers
Subject	Re: I Feel Old
Date	2016-01-04 13:14 -0600
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<n6eg6f$4ec$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	<9dcde262-7129-4a8f-b034-105b67d61cf5@googlegroups.com> <e4d0760e-aa04-40a6-961f-3d54904f2cff@googlegroups.com> <n69v01$p4i$1@dont-email.me> <08580c70-6bf4-4a37-bb64-e4cd2782409d@googlegroups.com> <ppmqlc-1b1.ln1@sambook.reistad.name>

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On 04-Jan-16 11:30, Morten Reistad wrote:
> <hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com> wrote:
>> FWIW, one of my friends will have to work until he's age 70 because
>> his old company was raided and his pension substantially decreased.
>> The successor company treats their people like serfs, and is very
>> quick to remind those they kept that they're lucky to have a job.
> 
> This is mostly a US-centric problem about how the pensions are 
> organised. Most other civilised countries have stringent rules that 
> the pension fund is cordoned off from the company funding it;
> organised as some form of coop (i.e. ruled by the benefactors) or
> non-profit, regulated company. They are also prohibited from
> investing a too large share into the company that funds it. This
> share is usually limited to 15-30% of the capital base.
> 
> Some of these are co-managed by unions or professional associations.

Indeed, and this has been a problem in the US for decades; employers
often "managed" their pension funds by giving low-/no-interest loans to
themselves rather than having to pay market rates.  That is one of the
reasons why employers _wanted_ to offer pensions--until the bill came
due and they had no cash to pay out retirees' benefits.

By far, the most notable part of the GM bankruptcy and bailout was the
transfer of its pension to UAW; as soon as that paperwork was done, GM
was instantly solvent and profitable again.  IMHO, this should be done
with _all_ pensions--and perhaps we'd see more companies offering them
again if that were the case.

You may hear about 401(k), 403(b), IRA or other retirement plans; these
are often mistakenly called pensions, but they're not.  What's relevant
here is that their funds _are_ held in trust by a third party, unlike
pensions (other than the GM/UAW exception).

>> Many people who have a 401k have not done well with them.
>> Individual everyday people do not have the skills to pick a
>> competent fund manager nor manage the funds themselves.  Many have
>> not recovered from the 2007 crash.   They'll also be working until
>> age 70.  (Not helping is that some fund managers were outright
>> crooks, charging excessively high fees.)
> 
> If you don't have an actual education in finance you are well advised
> to invest in some index tracking fund with good liquidity, like the
> QQQQs. That will get you the average of the stock market, which is
> pretty good in the longer term.

Most 401(k) and similar plans only allow selecting from a very short
list of mutual funds, and there are usually several index funds; no
"managed" fund in history has out-performed its relevant index over the
long term, at least after the "management" fees are subtracted, so the
choice is clear: put everything in indexes.

Some plans offer the ability to invest in your employer's stock, but
IMHO that is a very bad idea and should probably be illegal; that an
employer would even let you do that is probably a sign that you
shouldn't be working there, much less investing in their stock.

S

-- 
Stephen Sprunk         "God does not play dice."  --Albert Einstein
CCIE #3723         "God is an inveterate gambler, and He throws the
K5SSS        dice at every possible opportunity." --Stephen Hawking

Thread

I Feel Old Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-01 10:49 -0800
  Re: I Feel Old "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-01 13:33 -0600
    Re: I Feel Old Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-01 12:05 -0800
      Re: I Feel Old Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-01-02 04:41 -0400
        Re: I Feel Old "Joe Morris" <j.c.morris@verizon.net> - 2016-01-02 11:50 -0500
          Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-02 17:14 +0000
          Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-02 17:36 -0800
            Re: I Feel Old John Garza <john@127.0.0.1> - 2016-01-03 08:07 -0600
              Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-03 15:06 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-03 11:05 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-01-03 17:59 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-03 18:08 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-04 06:44 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-04 12:24 +0000
              Re: I Feel Old Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-01-03 09:45 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Lon <lon.stowell@comcast.net> - 2016-01-03 13:12 -0700
                Re: I Feel Old Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-01-03 16:56 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-03 14:27 -0800
              Re: I Feel Old Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-01-03 23:53 +0000
              Re: I Feel Old John Garza <john@127.0.0.1> - 2016-01-04 07:42 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-04 14:32 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-01-04 16:55 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-01-04 11:41 -0500
            Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-03 17:37 +0100
            Re: I Feel Old Lon <lon.stowell@comcast.net> - 2016-01-03 13:11 -0700
              Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-04 07:48 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-01-04 16:01 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-04 16:23 +0000
            Re: I Feel Old Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-01-03 17:30 -0400
      Re: I Feel Old "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-04 14:55 -0600
        Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-04 13:15 -0800
          Re: I Feel Old "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-05 14:59 -0600
            Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-05 13:31 -0800
            Re: I Feel Old Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com> - 2016-01-05 22:11 -0600
        Re: I Feel Old Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-04 17:07 -0800
      Re: I Feel Old philo <philo@privacy.net> - 2016-01-06 19:21 -0600
  Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-01 21:33 +0000
    Re: I Feel Old mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-01 22:52 +0000
    Re: I Feel Old Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-01 15:57 -0800
      Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-01 20:52 -0800
        Re: I Feel Old Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-01-02 00:45 -0500
        Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-02 06:40 +0000
          Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-02 17:25 -0800
            Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-03 08:18 +0000
            Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-03 07:26 -0500
              Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-04 07:34 -0800
        Re: I Feel Old mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-02 14:27 +0000
          Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-02 17:28 -0800
            Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-02 19:56 -0600
              Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-03 07:26 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-01-03 10:00 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-01-17 08:48 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-04 07:44 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-04 13:42 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-05 11:15 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-06 11:27 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-01-06 12:02 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-01-06 18:52 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-06 18:06 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-07 12:04 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-07 09:22 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-13 15:55 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-07 09:36 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-01-07 17:47 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-07 18:47 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-07 19:23 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-08 10:58 +0100
                Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-08 06:37 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-08 15:53 +0100
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-08 11:26 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old "879" <879@nospam.com> - 2016-01-09 09:53 +1100
                Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-09 11:24 +0100
                Re: I Feel Old "879" <879@nospam.com> - 2016-01-10 06:06 +1100
                Re: I Feel Old Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-01-08 10:13 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-01-08 17:42 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-09 07:30 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-01-09 07:07 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-09 11:55 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-09 15:40 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old "jack" <jkl8976@nospam.com> - 2016-01-10 06:13 +1100
                Re: I Feel Old Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com> - 2016-01-09 13:36 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-01-09 15:30 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-01-08 10:43 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-08 10:33 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-08 10:46 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-08 10:59 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-08 10:44 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-01-08 22:53 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old "879" <879@nospam.com> - 2016-01-09 12:53 +1100
                Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-09 11:29 +0100
                Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-09 11:26 +0100
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-12 16:22 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old "jack" <jkl8976@nospam.com> - 2016-01-13 10:03 +1100
                Re: I Feel Old "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-01-12 21:01 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old "jack" <jkl8976@nospam.com> - 2016-01-13 14:22 +1100
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-13 10:14 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-13 18:51 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old "jack" <jkl8976@nospam.com> - 2016-01-14 07:02 +1100
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-13 13:06 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old "879" <879@nospam.com> - 2016-01-09 09:51 +1100
                Re: I Feel Old "879" <879@nospam.com> - 2016-01-09 06:01 +1100
                Re: I Feel Old Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-01-08 13:21 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-01-08 20:58 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old "Jack Myers" <jmyers@n6wuz.net> - 2016-01-08 20:36 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-09 11:31 +0100
                Re: I Feel Old Lawrence Statton <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-01-09 18:33 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-09 07:30 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-09 12:59 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-09 15:31 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-09 17:22 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-09 17:07 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-10 11:25 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-11 17:08 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-12 07:43 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-01-12 08:44 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-12 09:52 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-12 12:28 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-12 10:58 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-12 14:49 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-12 13:57 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-12 18:19 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-01-12 17:37 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-01-12 18:46 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-01-08 16:08 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Lawrence Statton <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-01-09 18:38 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-09 21:43 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-01-09 22:56 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-11 23:49 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-12 07:46 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-12 11:28 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-12 14:58 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-12 14:01 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-12 16:42 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-01-12 22:07 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-08 10:36 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-09 05:04 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-01-11 14:48 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-01-11 17:28 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-11 19:01 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-09 07:30 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-09 16:59 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-01-07 13:13 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-07 18:55 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-01-08 17:40 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-08 23:20 +0000
              Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-04 07:29 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-04 18:30 +0100
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-04 10:59 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-04 19:48 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-05 06:27 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-05 16:26 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-01-05 12:27 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-05 11:08 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-04 13:14 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-01-04 14:43 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-01-04 22:38 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-12 17:47 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-13 01:27 +0100
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-13 11:18 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Lawrence Statton <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-01-13 19:05 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-13 20:22 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-14 14:09 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-01-15 14:51 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-15 09:48 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-15 17:26 +0100
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-15 13:19 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-01-15 09:20 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-01-15 17:44 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-15 12:57 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-19 12:42 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-19 15:27 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-15 19:15 +0100
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-15 13:44 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-01-15 15:02 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old "jack" <jkl8976@nospam.com> - 2016-01-16 08:58 +1100
                Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-15 23:51 +0100
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-17 16:01 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-15 17:11 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-16 08:03 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-01-16 08:29 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old "jack" <jkl8976@nospam.com> - 2016-01-17 03:38 +1100
                Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-16 15:32 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-16 16:59 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-16 16:45 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-01-17 02:11 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old "jack" <jkl8976@nospam.com> - 2016-01-17 14:02 +1100
                Re: I Feel Old Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-01-17 14:22 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old "jack" <jkl8976@nospam.com> - 2016-01-18 05:09 +1100
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-17 15:00 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-01-18 03:59 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-16 16:15 +0100
                Re: I Feel Old mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-17 11:39 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old "jack" <jkl8976@nospam.com> - 2016-01-18 04:41 +1100
                Re: I Feel Old mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-16 16:33 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-01-16 11:19 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-16 18:36 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-01-16 17:23 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-16 13:01 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-16 20:55 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-01-16 14:53 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-17 05:43 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-16 19:50 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-17 09:22 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-01-17 14:33 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-17 15:19 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-01-17 19:27 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-17 15:00 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-16 15:32 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-16 22:49 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old "jack" <jkl8976@nospam.com> - 2016-01-17 16:12 +1100
                Re: I Feel Old mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-17 11:32 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-17 12:06 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-17 09:22 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-01-17 10:05 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-01-17 15:26 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-01-18 05:14 +1100
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-17 15:38 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-01-16 14:09 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-16 15:19 +0100
                Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-15 19:29 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-01-15 14:25 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old "jack" <jkl8976@nospam.com> - 2016-01-14 13:46 +1100
                Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-14 05:17 +0100
                Re: I Feel Old Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-01-14 13:11 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-01-04 22:37 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-01-05 04:44 -0400
                Re: I Feel Old Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-01-05 18:46 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-05 11:06 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-01-05 18:46 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-04 17:04 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-01-04 17:36 -0800
      Re: I Feel Old jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-01-02 15:01 +0000
        Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-02 15:58 +0000
          Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-04 06:40 -0500
            Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-04 12:31 +0000
              Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-04 22:06 -0500
        Re: I Feel Old "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-01-03 07:09 +1100
      Re: I Feel Old Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2016-01-03 12:11 -0500
        Re: I Feel Old Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-03 20:42 -0800
          Re: I Feel Old "jack" <jkl8976@nospam.com> - 2016-01-04 16:43 +1100
          Re: I Feel Old Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2016-01-05 22:05 -0500
        Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-04 18:21 +0100
          Re: I Feel Old Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-01-04 17:47 +0000
          Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-04 16:10 -0500
            Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-04 13:26 -0800
              Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-04 21:57 -0500
          Re: I Feel Old Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2016-01-06 19:46 -0500
            Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-07 12:04 -0500
              Re: I Feel Old Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-01-07 17:36 +0000
              Re: I Feel Old Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-01-07 13:43 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old "879" <879@nospam.com> - 2016-01-08 15:35 +1100
                Re: I Feel Old Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-01-08 00:15 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old "879" <879@nospam.com> - 2016-01-08 19:41 +1100
              Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-07 12:44 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-07 21:32 +0000
      Re: I Feel Old "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-05 14:51 -0600
        Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-05 12:59 -0800
          Re: I Feel Old Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-01-05 22:17 +0000
            Re: I Feel Old "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-08 14:35 -0600
        Re: I Feel Old Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-01-05 22:17 +0000
          Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-05 19:24 -0500
            Re: I Feel Old Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-05 17:31 -0800
              Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-06 07:38 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-06 06:50 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-06 13:26 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-06 05:49 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-06 14:32 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-06 07:13 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-06 16:08 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-08 14:39 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Lawrence Statton <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-01-06 09:14 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-06 10:22 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-15 17:45 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-06 18:42 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-01-06 14:20 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-06 14:34 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-01-06 19:52 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-06 12:35 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-06 20:54 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-06 18:44 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-01-06 23:48 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-06 19:38 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-01-07 07:46 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-07 06:44 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-01-09 21:47 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-10 05:45 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-10 12:18 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-10 08:12 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-10 13:40 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-07 12:04 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-07 08:15 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-06 05:48 -0800
              Re: I Feel Old Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-01-06 11:29 -0500
              Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-06 10:20 -0800
            Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-05 20:52 -0500
              Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-06 06:54 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-01-06 11:34 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-06 18:40 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-06 18:39 -0500
              Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-06 10:22 -0800
              Re: I Feel Old "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-15 17:43 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-01-18 20:13 -0600
          Re: I Feel Old Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-01-06 11:26 -0500
          Re: I Feel Old "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-08 14:37 -0600
            Re: I Feel Old mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-08 23:25 +0000
    Re: I Feel Old Freddy1 <something@something.com> - 2016-01-02 21:35 -0500
      Re: I Feel Old Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-01-03 05:34 +0000
      Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-03 08:33 +0000
        Re: I Feel Old Freddy1 <something@something.com> - 2016-01-03 15:17 -0500
        Re: I Feel Old Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-01-03 20:52 -0800
          Re: I Feel Old Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-04 05:09 -0800
            Re: I Feel Old "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-05 14:57 -0600
  Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-01 20:46 -0800
    Re: I Feel Old Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2016-01-02 07:00 +0000
      Re: I Feel Old Louis Krupp <lkrupp@nospam.pssw.com.invalid> - 2016-01-02 01:44 -0700
      Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-02 13:46 -0800
    Re: I Feel Old Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-01-02 09:11 -0800
  Re: I Feel Old Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com> - 2016-01-02 11:49 -0600
  Re: I Feel Old John Garza <john@127.0.0.1> - 2016-01-03 08:14 -0600
    Re: I Feel Old mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-03 17:11 +0000

csiph-web