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Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #156276

Re: I Feel Old

From Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com>
Newsgroups alt.folklore.computers
Subject Re: I Feel Old
Date 2016-01-08 10:13 -0800
Organization Wheeler&Wheeler
Message-ID <8760z4549f.fsf@garlic.com> (permalink)
References <9dcde262-7129-4a8f-b034-105b67d61cf5@googlegroups.com> <n6n2tu$685$1@dont-email.me> <gqd4mc-lr.ln1@sambook.reistad.name> <1838774521.473944650.574506.peter_flass-yahoo.com@news.eternal-september.org> <r4v4mc-tr.ln1@sambook.reistad.name>

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Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> writes:
> Direct tax is 27%, soon 25% on both business and earned income up to 
> a level of around $60k with a deduction of around $15k, plus 14.2%
> health&pension contributions. Comparing with the US we get a very
> reasonable deal from this latter one. And the resulting ~39% tax is
> also comparable with the US.

one of the claims about congress being the most corrupt institution on
earth is taking money for tax loopholes ... that creates enormous gap
between the tax rate and the effective tax

GAO: U.S. corporations pay average effective tax rate of 12.6%
http://money.cnn.com/2013/07/01/news/economy/corporate-tax-rate/

that has also reduced the percentage of what corporations contribute to
total taxes collected
http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/briefing-book/background/numbers/revenue.cfm

Revenue from the corporate income tax fell from between 5 and 6 percent
of GDP in the early 1950s to 1.3 percent of GDP in 2010.

...

the above graph actually skews things for corporations since payroll
taxes are included. In theory payroll taxes are what is being paid into
pension funds for worker retirment ... but by cooking the books, it has
been turned into funds for current operations (pension reserves for
retirement disappear). If you just compare individual/corporate split
... then individual/corporate split was about 65/35 in 1950 changed to
80/20 in 2010. Part of the current problem is that congress had been
looting the SS Trust Fund for day-to-day operation during the period
when the baby boom workers were paying in much more than needed to pay
out for the much smaller previous generation.  As baby boomers move to
retirement their pension reserves are non-existant.

the paying for loopholes goes along with shift in wealth going to the
top 1% from the middle-class
http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2011/09/04/opinion/04reich-graphic.html

this goes along with the past discussion about many worker intensive
industry cook the books to shift the economics from worker contributions
to things that have been heavily computerized. Airlines shifted the
profit from passenger flying to selling tickets, in negotiations with
unions, they show that actually flying passengers is barely breakeven,
while the parent company walks away with boat loads of money from the
subsidiary that sells the tickets (even helps if the subsidiary
selling the tickets is off-shore).

heavy equipment builders shifted from directly selling to buyers, to
"wholesale" selling at cost to off-shore "distributor" (subsidiary)
corporation, the off-shore "distributor" then makes the (profitable)
retail sale to buyers ... and all the profit is booked in foreign
country (the direct delivery of equipment from manufacturing plant to
buyer didn't change).

Auto industry cook the books, so that actual building and selling of
autos appears to be a break even operation (major impact in union
negotiations), but the parent company books nearly all profit from auto
loans. skews the appearance of the business to excuses for making loans
... manufacturing appears to be secondary objective purely for the
purpose of getting customers to take out loans. Last decade, the auto
industry then jumped into the securitized mortgage market scheme ... and
were packaging auto loans, paying for triple-A rating and selling to
victims (even auto employee pension funds). With wallstreet help, they
even started looking for bad auto loans, because wallstreet wanted
securitized instruments designed to fail (with the triple-A rating they
could sell off as fast as they could be created), where they then could
take out CDS gambling bets, that they would fail.

some past posts mentioning CDS gambling bets:
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012f.html#63 One maths formula and the financial crash
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012m.html#12 Does the IBM System z Mainframe rely on Security by Obscurity or is it Secure by Design
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012m.html#45 General Mills computer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012m.html#46 General Mills computer
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2012o.html#7 Beyond the 10,000 Hour Rule
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013c.html#66 How to Cut Megabanks Down to Size
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013d.html#25 Senator Sherrod Brown Drops a Bombshell in Mary Jo White's Hearing
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013d.html#72 What Makes an Architecture Bizarre?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013e.html#9 What Makes an Architecture Bizarre?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013e.html#22 What Makes bank regulation and insurance Bizarre?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013e.html#24 What Makes bank regulation and insurance Bizarre?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013f.html#2 What Makes an Architecture Bizarre?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013f.html#34 What Makes an Architecture Bizarre?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013h.html#55 OT: "Highway Patrol" back on TV
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2013m.html#53 Retirement Savings
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014e.html#62 Before the Internet: The golden age of online services
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014e.html#80 Before the Internet: The golden age of online services
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014h.html#37 Married Couples and the Financial Mess
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014i.html#95 How Comp-Sci went from passing fad to must have major
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#3 How Comp-Sci went from passing fad to must have major
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014j.html#106 only sometimes From looms to computers to looms
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014m.html#13 weird apple trivia
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014m.html#14 weird apple trivia
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014m.html#29 LEO
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014m.html#31 LEO
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014m.html#32 LEO
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014m.html#33 LEO
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014m.html#73 The Watchdog that Didn't Bark ... Again
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014m.html#99 US Debt In Public Hands Doubles Under Barack Obama
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014m.html#126 Wall Street's Revenge
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014m.html#131 Memo To WSJ: The CRomnibus Abomination Was Not "A Rare Bipartisan Success"
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014m.html#157 LEO
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2014m.html#158 LEO
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015.html#17 Cromnibus cartoon
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015.html#48 The 17 Equations That Changed The Course Of History
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015.html#54 How do we take political considerations into account in the OODA-Loop?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015b.html#0 S&L Crisis and Economic Mess
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015b.html#2 do you blame Harvard for Putin
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015b.html#5 Swiss Leaks lifts the veil on a secretive banking system
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015b.html#8 Shoot Bank Of America Now---The Case For Super Glass-Steagall Is Overwhelming
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015b.html#20 $2 Billion City Of Tampa Pension Story Major Media Missed
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015b.html#22 Two New Papers Say Big Finance Sectors Hurt Growth and Innovation
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015b.html#24 What were the complaints of binary code programmers that not accept Assembly?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015c.html#40 past of nukes, was Future of support for telephone rotary dial ?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015c.html#49 Global Fragility and the 1997 Asian Financial Crisis
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015c.html#53 Servicers in DOJ s Crosshairs Following JPM Robo-Signing Settlement
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015c.html#88 How Wall Street captured Washington's effort to rein in banks
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015c.html#108 Occupy Democrats
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015d.html#4 "Trust in digital certificate ecosystem eroding"
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015d.html#5 7 years on from crisis, $150 billion in bank fines and penalties
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015d.html#18 Can we design machines to automate ethics?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015d.html#20 Wall Street Bailouts Are Finally Over, Right?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015d.html#28 Bernie Sanders Proposes A Bill To Break Up The 'Too Big To Exist' Banks
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015d.html#69 Western Union envisioned internet functionality
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015d.html#70 Western Union envisioned internet functionality
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015d.html#76 Greedy Banks Nailed With $5 BILLION+ Fine For Fraud And Corruption
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015d.html#79 Greedy Banks Nailed With $5 BILLION+ Fine For Fraud And Corruption
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015e.html#0 The WSJ and Barron's Apologists for the Banksters Peddle Wallison's Fables
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015e.html#34 43rd President
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015e.html#39 Poor People Caused The Financial Crisis
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015e.html#44 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015e.html#47 Do we REALLY NEED all this regulatory oversight?
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015e.html#54 In Dramatic Decision Judge Finds Fed Bailout Of AIG Was "Illegal", Government "Violated Federal Reserve Act"
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015e.html#71 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015e.html#80 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015e.html#82 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015e.html#93 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015f.html#4 Jeb: George W. Bush is a top foreign policy adviser
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015f.html#16 Interactive Data Corp taps banks for sale or IPO -sources
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015f.html#27 Federal Subsidies
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015f.html#36 Eric Holder, Wall Street Double Agent, Comes in From the Cold
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015f.html#67 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015g.html#25 After 6 Years Of QE, And A $4.5 Trillion Balance Sheet, St. Louis Fed
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015g.html#49 seveneves
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015g.html#57 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015g.html#65 Michael Hudson's New Book: Wall Street Parasites Have Devoured Their Hosts -- Your Retirement Plan and the U.S. Economy
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015g.html#70 AIG freezes defined-benefit pension plan
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015g.html#73 Economists' Tribal Thinking
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015g.html#81 Now the DOJ Admits They Got it Wrong
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015g.html#86 1973--TI 8 digit electric calculator--$99.95
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015h.html#25 Hillary Clinton's Glass-Steagall
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015h.html#44 rationality
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015h.html#45 rationality
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015h.html#53 rationality
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015h.html#56 rationality
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015h.html#65 Economic Mess
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2015h.html#78 The Global Financial Crisis: Analysis and Policy Implications
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2016.html#0 Repealing Glass-Steagall
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2016.html#6 Repealing Glass-Steagall
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2016.html#8 "Too Big To Fail"
http://www.garlic.com/~lynn/2016.html#10 25 Years: How the Web began

-- 
virtualization experience starting Jan1968, online at home since Mar1970

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Thread

I Feel Old Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-01 10:49 -0800
  Re: I Feel Old "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-01 13:33 -0600
    Re: I Feel Old Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-01 12:05 -0800
      Re: I Feel Old Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-01-02 04:41 -0400
        Re: I Feel Old "Joe Morris" <j.c.morris@verizon.net> - 2016-01-02 11:50 -0500
          Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-02 17:14 +0000
          Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-02 17:36 -0800
            Re: I Feel Old John Garza <john@127.0.0.1> - 2016-01-03 08:07 -0600
              Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-03 15:06 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-03 11:05 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-01-03 17:59 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-03 18:08 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-04 06:44 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-04 12:24 +0000
              Re: I Feel Old Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-01-03 09:45 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Lon <lon.stowell@comcast.net> - 2016-01-03 13:12 -0700
                Re: I Feel Old Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-01-03 16:56 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-03 14:27 -0800
              Re: I Feel Old Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-01-03 23:53 +0000
              Re: I Feel Old John Garza <john@127.0.0.1> - 2016-01-04 07:42 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-04 14:32 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-01-04 16:55 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-01-04 11:41 -0500
            Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-03 17:37 +0100
            Re: I Feel Old Lon <lon.stowell@comcast.net> - 2016-01-03 13:11 -0700
              Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-04 07:48 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-01-04 16:01 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-04 16:23 +0000
            Re: I Feel Old Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-01-03 17:30 -0400
      Re: I Feel Old "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-04 14:55 -0600
        Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-04 13:15 -0800
          Re: I Feel Old "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-05 14:59 -0600
            Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-05 13:31 -0800
            Re: I Feel Old Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com> - 2016-01-05 22:11 -0600
        Re: I Feel Old Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-04 17:07 -0800
      Re: I Feel Old philo <philo@privacy.net> - 2016-01-06 19:21 -0600
  Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-01 21:33 +0000
    Re: I Feel Old mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-01 22:52 +0000
    Re: I Feel Old Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-01 15:57 -0800
      Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-01 20:52 -0800
        Re: I Feel Old Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-01-02 00:45 -0500
        Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-02 06:40 +0000
          Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-02 17:25 -0800
            Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-03 08:18 +0000
            Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-03 07:26 -0500
              Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-04 07:34 -0800
        Re: I Feel Old mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-02 14:27 +0000
          Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-02 17:28 -0800
            Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-02 19:56 -0600
              Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-03 07:26 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-01-03 10:00 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-01-17 08:48 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-04 07:44 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-04 13:42 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-05 11:15 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-06 11:27 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-01-06 12:02 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-01-06 18:52 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-06 18:06 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-07 12:04 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-07 09:22 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-13 15:55 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-07 09:36 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-01-07 17:47 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-07 18:47 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-07 19:23 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-08 10:58 +0100
                Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-08 06:37 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-08 15:53 +0100
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-08 11:26 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old "879" <879@nospam.com> - 2016-01-09 09:53 +1100
                Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-09 11:24 +0100
                Re: I Feel Old "879" <879@nospam.com> - 2016-01-10 06:06 +1100
                Re: I Feel Old Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-01-08 10:13 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-01-08 17:42 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-09 07:30 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-01-09 07:07 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-09 11:55 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-09 15:40 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old "jack" <jkl8976@nospam.com> - 2016-01-10 06:13 +1100
                Re: I Feel Old Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com> - 2016-01-09 13:36 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-01-09 15:30 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-01-08 10:43 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-08 10:33 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-08 10:46 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-08 10:59 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-08 10:44 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-01-08 22:53 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old "879" <879@nospam.com> - 2016-01-09 12:53 +1100
                Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-09 11:29 +0100
                Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-09 11:26 +0100
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-12 16:22 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old "jack" <jkl8976@nospam.com> - 2016-01-13 10:03 +1100
                Re: I Feel Old "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-01-12 21:01 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old "jack" <jkl8976@nospam.com> - 2016-01-13 14:22 +1100
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-13 10:14 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-13 18:51 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old "jack" <jkl8976@nospam.com> - 2016-01-14 07:02 +1100
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-13 13:06 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old "879" <879@nospam.com> - 2016-01-09 09:51 +1100
                Re: I Feel Old "879" <879@nospam.com> - 2016-01-09 06:01 +1100
                Re: I Feel Old Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-01-08 13:21 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-01-08 20:58 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old "Jack Myers" <jmyers@n6wuz.net> - 2016-01-08 20:36 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-09 11:31 +0100
                Re: I Feel Old Lawrence Statton <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-01-09 18:33 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-09 07:30 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-09 12:59 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-09 15:31 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-09 17:22 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-09 17:07 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-10 11:25 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-11 17:08 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-12 07:43 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-01-12 08:44 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-12 09:52 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-12 12:28 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-12 10:58 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-12 14:49 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-12 13:57 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-12 18:19 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-01-12 17:37 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-01-12 18:46 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-01-08 16:08 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Lawrence Statton <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-01-09 18:38 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-09 21:43 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-01-09 22:56 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-11 23:49 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-12 07:46 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-12 11:28 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-12 14:58 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-12 14:01 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-12 16:42 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-01-12 22:07 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-08 10:36 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-09 05:04 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2016-01-11 14:48 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Bob Eager <news0006@eager.cx> - 2016-01-11 17:28 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-11 19:01 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-09 07:30 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-09 16:59 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-01-07 13:13 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-07 18:55 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-01-08 17:40 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-08 23:20 +0000
              Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-04 07:29 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-04 18:30 +0100
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-04 10:59 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-04 19:48 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-05 06:27 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-05 16:26 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-01-05 12:27 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-05 11:08 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-04 13:14 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-01-04 14:43 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-01-04 22:38 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-12 17:47 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-13 01:27 +0100
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-13 11:18 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Lawrence Statton <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-01-13 19:05 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-13 20:22 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-14 14:09 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-01-15 14:51 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-15 09:48 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-15 17:26 +0100
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-15 13:19 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-01-15 09:20 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-01-15 17:44 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-15 12:57 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-19 12:42 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-19 15:27 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-15 19:15 +0100
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-15 13:44 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-01-15 15:02 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old "jack" <jkl8976@nospam.com> - 2016-01-16 08:58 +1100
                Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-15 23:51 +0100
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-17 16:01 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-15 17:11 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-16 08:03 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-01-16 08:29 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old "jack" <jkl8976@nospam.com> - 2016-01-17 03:38 +1100
                Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-16 15:32 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-16 16:59 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-16 16:45 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-01-17 02:11 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old "jack" <jkl8976@nospam.com> - 2016-01-17 14:02 +1100
                Re: I Feel Old Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-01-17 14:22 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old "jack" <jkl8976@nospam.com> - 2016-01-18 05:09 +1100
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-17 15:00 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-01-18 03:59 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-16 16:15 +0100
                Re: I Feel Old mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-17 11:39 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old "jack" <jkl8976@nospam.com> - 2016-01-18 04:41 +1100
                Re: I Feel Old mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-16 16:33 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old "Osmium" <r124c4u102@comcast.net> - 2016-01-16 11:19 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-16 18:36 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2016-01-16 17:23 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-16 13:01 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-16 20:55 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-01-16 14:53 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-17 05:43 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-16 19:50 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-17 09:22 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-01-17 14:33 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-17 15:19 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-01-17 19:27 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-17 15:00 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-16 15:32 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-16 22:49 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old "jack" <jkl8976@nospam.com> - 2016-01-17 16:12 +1100
                Re: I Feel Old mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-17 11:32 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-17 12:06 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-17 09:22 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-01-17 10:05 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-01-17 15:26 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-01-18 05:14 +1100
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-17 15:38 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-01-16 14:09 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-16 15:19 +0100
                Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-15 19:29 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-01-15 14:25 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old "jack" <jkl8976@nospam.com> - 2016-01-14 13:46 +1100
                Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-14 05:17 +0100
                Re: I Feel Old Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-01-14 13:11 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2016-01-04 22:37 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Mike Spencer <mds@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> - 2016-01-05 04:44 -0400
                Re: I Feel Old Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-01-05 18:46 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-05 11:06 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-01-05 18:46 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Stephen Sprunk <stephen@sprunk.org> - 2016-01-04 17:04 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-01-04 17:36 -0800
      Re: I Feel Old jmfbahciv <See.above@aol.com> - 2016-01-02 15:01 +0000
        Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-02 15:58 +0000
          Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-04 06:40 -0500
            Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-04 12:31 +0000
              Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-04 22:06 -0500
        Re: I Feel Old "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2016-01-03 07:09 +1100
      Re: I Feel Old Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2016-01-03 12:11 -0500
        Re: I Feel Old Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-03 20:42 -0800
          Re: I Feel Old "jack" <jkl8976@nospam.com> - 2016-01-04 16:43 +1100
          Re: I Feel Old Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2016-01-05 22:05 -0500
        Re: I Feel Old Morten Reistad <first@last.name.invalid> - 2016-01-04 18:21 +0100
          Re: I Feel Old Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-01-04 17:47 +0000
          Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-04 16:10 -0500
            Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-04 13:26 -0800
              Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-04 21:57 -0500
          Re: I Feel Old Uncle Steve <stevet810@gmail.com> - 2016-01-06 19:46 -0500
            Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-07 12:04 -0500
              Re: I Feel Old Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-01-07 17:36 +0000
              Re: I Feel Old Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-01-07 13:43 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old "879" <879@nospam.com> - 2016-01-08 15:35 +1100
                Re: I Feel Old Dave Garland <dave.garland@wizinfo.com> - 2016-01-08 00:15 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old "879" <879@nospam.com> - 2016-01-08 19:41 +1100
              Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-07 12:44 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-07 21:32 +0000
      Re: I Feel Old "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-05 14:51 -0600
        Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-05 12:59 -0800
          Re: I Feel Old Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-01-05 22:17 +0000
            Re: I Feel Old "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-08 14:35 -0600
        Re: I Feel Old Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-01-05 22:17 +0000
          Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-05 19:24 -0500
            Re: I Feel Old Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-05 17:31 -0800
              Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-06 07:38 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-06 06:50 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-06 13:26 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-06 05:49 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-06 14:32 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-06 07:13 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-06 16:08 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-08 14:39 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Lawrence Statton <lawrence@senguio.mx> - 2016-01-06 09:14 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-06 10:22 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-15 17:45 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-06 18:42 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-01-06 14:20 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-06 14:34 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-01-06 19:52 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-06 12:35 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-06 20:54 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-06 18:44 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-01-06 23:48 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-06 19:38 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Andrew Swallow <am.swallow@btinternet.com> - 2016-01-07 07:46 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-07 06:44 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-01-09 21:47 -0800
                Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-10 05:45 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-10 12:18 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-10 08:12 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-10 13:40 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-07 12:04 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-07 08:15 +0000
                Re: I Feel Old Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-06 05:48 -0800
              Re: I Feel Old Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-01-06 11:29 -0500
              Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-06 10:20 -0800
            Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-05 20:52 -0500
              Re: I Feel Old Peter Flass <peter_flass@yahoo.com> - 2016-01-06 06:54 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-01-06 11:34 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-06 18:40 -0500
                Re: I Feel Old "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-01-06 18:39 -0500
              Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-06 10:22 -0800
              Re: I Feel Old "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-15 17:43 -0600
                Re: I Feel Old JimP <solosam90@gmail.com> - 2016-01-18 20:13 -0600
          Re: I Feel Old Dan Espen <despen@verizon.net> - 2016-01-06 11:26 -0500
          Re: I Feel Old "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-08 14:37 -0600
            Re: I Feel Old mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-08 23:25 +0000
    Re: I Feel Old Freddy1 <something@something.com> - 2016-01-02 21:35 -0500
      Re: I Feel Old Charlie Gibbs <cgibbs@kltpzyxm.invalid> - 2016-01-03 05:34 +0000
      Re: I Feel Old Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> - 2016-01-03 08:33 +0000
        Re: I Feel Old Freddy1 <something@something.com> - 2016-01-03 15:17 -0500
        Re: I Feel Old Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-01-03 20:52 -0800
          Re: I Feel Old Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-01-04 05:09 -0800
            Re: I Feel Old "Charles Richmond" <numerist@aquaporin4.com> - 2016-01-05 14:57 -0600
  Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-01 20:46 -0800
    Re: I Feel Old Bob Martin <bob.martin@excite.com> - 2016-01-02 07:00 +0000
      Re: I Feel Old Louis Krupp <lkrupp@nospam.pssw.com.invalid> - 2016-01-02 01:44 -0700
      Re: I Feel Old hancock4@bbs.cpcn.com - 2016-01-02 13:46 -0800
    Re: I Feel Old Anne & Lynn Wheeler <lynn@garlic.com> - 2016-01-02 09:11 -0800
  Re: I Feel Old Jon Elson <elson@pico-systems.com> - 2016-01-02 11:49 -0600
  Re: I Feel Old John Garza <john@127.0.0.1> - 2016-01-03 08:14 -0600
    Re: I Feel Old mausg@mail.com - 2016-01-03 17:11 +0000

csiph-web