Groups > comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage > #5559

Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD?

From	nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid>
Newsgroups	alt.comp.periphs.hdd, comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage, comp.sys.mac.hardware.storage, comp.os.linux.hardware, comp.os.linux.setup
Subject	Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD?
Date	2014-06-28 23:39 -0400
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<280620142339158403%nospam@nospam.invalid> (permalink)
References	(2 earlier) <874mz496r6.fld@barrow.com> <280620141555147959%nospam@nospam.invalid> <87vbrk7nsm.fld@barrow.com> <280620141802446932%nospam@nospam.invalid> <87fvio7c61.fld@barrow.com>

Cross-posted to 5 groups.

Show all headers | View raw

In article <87fvio7c61.fld@barrow.com>, Floyd L. Davidson
<floyd@apaflo.com> wrote:

> >> >> >> Because that wears out the SSD quickly, and it is better to put it on a
> >> >> >> slow HDD. If so, then how do computer (especially laptop/notebook)
> >> >> >> users with only a SSD (not hybrids with HDDs) do this? I assume Windows,
> >> >> >> Mac OS X, and Linux follow this rule?
> >> >> >
> >> >> >ssd doesn't wear out that quickly and you'll probably replace the
> >> >> >computer before the ssd wears out, even with swap on it.
> >> >>
> >> >> "Even" with swap?  Swapping is something that should be
> >> >> relatively rare.
> >> >
> >> >nonsense. swapping happens as a matter of course on any desktop/laptop
> >> >system because physical memory is always limited.
> >>
> >> Only with a poorly designed system.
> >
> >nonsense.
> 
> More of *your* endless nonsense on a topic you know little
> about.

quite the opposite. you say that swap is rare, yet it's very definitely
*not* rare. you say that ssd won't make a difference yet it makes a
*huge* difference in performance, partly due to swap being on it (along
with everything else).

once again, you're wrong, and as usual, you'll argue 'til the cows come
home rather than admit you're wrong.

> >> The only time swap is written to on any of my systems is
> >> shortly after a reboot, as essentially unused memory is
> >> swapped out to provide more space in RAM.
> >
> >then your system is not a typical system.
> >
> >> >> It's there to prevent a major disaster
> >> >> on the odd occasion when there isn't enough memory.
> >> >
> >> >odd occasion?? there is never enough physical memory unless you don't
> >> >do much of anything with the computer.
> >>
> >> There are lots of systems that have enough RAM installed
> >> to simply not need any installed swap space.
> >
> >and there are lots that aren't. so what?
> 
> You said it "never" happens.  Clearly it happens very often!

wrong on that too. what i said was that it never happens unless you
don't do much of anything with the computer. 

on a typical system, it's *very* normal to swap and i'm not talking
about edge cases where someone is just checking email or whatever.

> >nearly every computer in use today could benefit from more memory but
> >there's diminishing returns by adding more.
> 
> The diminishing return is not the amount of RAM used for program
> execution though.  Which is to say, swap space commonly has
> nothing to do with how much RAM is provisioned, nor the other
> way around.

the diminishing return is how much physical memory to have in the
system. at some point, it's just not worth the additional cost. 

as for the amount of swap space, it's dependent on how much ram is in
the system and how many apps the user wants to run at the same time.
that's common sense.

> >> That RAM
> >> is typically used as buffering for disk reads, so the
> >> more there is the faster the system appears to be.
> >
> >memory can be used for a lot of things, not just disk caching.
> 
> So?

so it's more than just what you say it is.

> >> But
> >> one effect is that there is virtually always enough RAM
> >> for program execution (generally with many GB more
> >> available at any given moment).
> >
> >nonsense.
> >
> >*one* app might fit into physical memory, but *all* apps won't fit and
> >switching between them *will* hit swap.
> >
> >and 'virtually always enough' are weasel words.
> 
> I've got a box here that typically shows a load average well into
> double digits when I'm editing images.  It has never swapped out
> a running program.

how much memory and how many apps are you running? without specifics,
your statement is meaningless.

here in the real world, where people typically have 4-8 gig systems,
they *will* swap in normal use, and that's even without memory
intensive apps. for those who use memory intensive apps, 16 gig (or
more) is wise.

Thread

Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> - 2014-06-28 11:25 -0700
  Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-28 15:11 -0400
    Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson) - 2014-06-28 11:25 -0800
      Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2014-06-29 05:38 +1000
      Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-28 15:55 -0400
        Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson) - 2014-06-28 12:59 -0800
          Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-28 18:02 -0400
            Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson) - 2014-06-28 17:11 -0800
              Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-28 23:39 -0400
                Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson) - 2014-06-28 21:29 -0800
                Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-29 02:21 -0400
        Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2014-06-29 15:23 -0400
          Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> - 2014-06-29 15:12 -0700
            Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2014-06-29 17:36 -0600
            Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? Mike Tomlinson <mike@jasper.org.uk> - 2014-07-01 10:37 +0100
              Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-07-01 16:14 +0000
              Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> - 2014-07-02 23:13 -0700
        Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2014-07-03 02:13 -0400
  Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? Arno <me@privacy.net> - 2014-06-28 22:08 +0000
    Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-28 19:42 -0400
      Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? Mike Tomlinson <mike@jasper.org.uk> - 2014-07-01 10:41 +0100
        Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? Lusotec <nomail@nomail.not> - 2014-07-01 11:31 +0100
  Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? Kevin McMurtrie <mcmurtrie@pixelmemory.us> - 2014-06-28 23:31 -0700
    Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2014-06-30 06:30 +1000
  Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? Andreas Rutishauser <andreas@macandreas.ch> - 2014-06-29 08:39 +0100
    Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> - 2014-06-29 12:01 -0700
      Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-29 16:53 -0400
        Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> - 2014-06-29 15:13 -0700
          Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-29 21:30 -0400
    Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? hal-usenet@ip-64-139-1-69.sjc.megapath.net (Hal Murray) - 2014-07-01 02:54 -0500
      Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? Poutnik <Poutnik@privacy.net> - 2014-07-01 10:39 +0200
      Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2014-07-02 09:49 +1000
      Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? Andreas Rutishauser <andreas@macandreas.ch> - 2014-07-02 08:18 +0100
        Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> - 2014-07-02 23:16 -0700
  Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2014-06-29 12:36 -0400
    Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-29 14:06 -0400
  Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2014-07-03 02:16 -0400
    Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> - 2014-07-02 23:19 -0700
    Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-07-03 18:55 +1200
    Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? "Charles T. Smith" <cts.private.yahoo@gmail.com> - 2014-07-03 12:46 +0000
      Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-07-03 14:31 -0400
        Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2014-07-03 19:57 +0100
          Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? "whacker james" <wj852@gmail.com> - 2014-07-04 09:02 +1000
            Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2014-07-04 00:23 +0100
              Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? Måns Rullgård <mans@mansr.com> - 2014-07-04 00:29 +0100
                Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2014-07-04 00:47 +0100
              Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? "whacker james" <wj852@gmail.com> - 2014-07-04 17:54 +1000

csiph-web