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Groups > comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.storage > #5555

Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD?

Cross-posted to 5 groups.

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In article <87vbrk7nsm.fld@barrow.com>, Floyd L. Davidson
<floyd@apaflo.com> wrote:

> >> >> Because that wears out the SSD quickly, and it is better to put it on a
> >> >> slow HDD. If so, then how do computer (especially laptop/notebook) users
> >> >> with only a SSD (not hybrids with HDDs) do this? I assume Windows, Mac
> >> >> OS X, and Linux follow this rule?
> >> >
> >> >ssd doesn't wear out that quickly and you'll probably replace the
> >> >computer before the ssd wears out, even with swap on it.
> >>
> >> "Even" with swap?  Swapping is something that should be
> >> relatively rare.
> >
> >nonsense. swapping happens as a matter of course on any desktop/laptop
> >system because physical memory is always limited.
> 
> Only with a poorly designed system.

nonsense.

> The only time swap is written to on any of my systems is
> shortly after a reboot, as essentially unused memory is
> swapped out to provide more space in RAM.

then your system is not a typical system.

> >> It's there to prevent a major disaster
> >> on the odd occasion when there isn't enough memory.
> >
> >odd occasion?? there is never enough physical memory unless you don't
> >do much of anything with the computer.
> 
> There are lots of systems that have enough RAM installed
> to simply not need any installed swap space. 

and there are lots that aren't. so what?

nearly every computer in use today could benefit from more memory but
there's diminishing returns by adding more.

> That RAM
> is typically used as buffering for disk reads, so the
> more there is the faster the system appears to be.  

memory can be used for a lot of things, not just disk caching.

> But
> one effect is that there is virtually always enough RAM
> for program execution (generally with many GB more
> available at any given moment).

nonsense.

*one* app might fit into physical memory, but *all* apps won't fit and
switching between them *will* hit swap.

and 'virtually always enough' are weasel words. 

> Computers that "don't do much of anything" don't need or
> use that type of effective design.  But those with real
> loads do.

what matters is the computers that people actually have and what they
do on them, not how you think it should be.

> >> The
> >> oddness of those occasions should result in minisule
> >> wear on the swap device.
> >
> >an ssd can easily handle swap without any issue. there is no need to
> >worry about ssd longevity anymore. ssds are *extremely* reliable and
> >smoking fast and will almost certainly outlast the computer.
> 
> That is true enough, but has zero significance. 

it has every significance since the original question was whether
replacing a hard drive with an ssd would 'wear out' due to swap, which
will be on the ssd if the drive is replaced. and the answer is it
won't.

> Putting
> money into an SSD to use as swap space is hilarously
> lacking in understanding.

nobody said anything about putting money into ssd *just* for swap.
where in the world did you come up with that ??

> >> In effect, it is not sound policy to use an expensive
> >> fast device for swap, as the benefit is just exceedingly
> >> small.
> >
> >nonsense.
> >
> >putting swap on ssd is a *huge* boost to overall system speed. the
> >difference is *dramatic*.
> 
> Not if the system is properly designed.

wrong. ssd is one of the easiest ways to drastically improve
performance, especially if memory is maxed out which it often is,
unless the computer is older and a sata 3 drive saturates it.

> >and ssds are not that expensive anymore either, plus they're completely
> >silent and not susceptible to shock or sudden motion (not that that's a
> >big issue with shock sensors but it's not zero either).
> 
> Again, quite true but of no significance.

it's significant in that it increases reliability as well as the
overall user experience in using the computer.

> >> >some ssds even have 10 year warranties. good luck finding a hard drive
> >> >with a warranty anywhere near that long.
> >>
> >> True, which just adds to reasons for doing the right thing
> >> in the first place.
> >
> >with rare exception, the right thing is use ssd for the system, apps &
> >user data, especially with a computer designed *for* ssd.
> 
> Exactly.  Not for swap space.

swap is included because it's on the same drive in almost every case. 

> >a hard drive is well suited for data that is less commonly accessed
> >and/or doesn't need speed and/or the cost would be prohibitive due to
> >its size, such as a media library.
> 
> "less commonly accessed" describes swap space.

not even remotely close to true.

> >however, the key here is that worrying about 'burning out' an ssd due
> >to excessive use is a myth. it's actually the other way around. a hard
> >drive will wear out sooner because it has moving parts.
> 
> Which isn't of significance for swap space.

of course it is, because when a hard drive fails, it takes out
everything on it, including swap.

once again, the original question was whether ssds would wear out
because swap is on them and the answer is no, even if swap is hit hard.

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Thread

Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> - 2014-06-28 11:25 -0700
  Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-28 15:11 -0400
    Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson) - 2014-06-28 11:25 -0800
      Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2014-06-29 05:38 +1000
      Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-28 15:55 -0400
        Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson) - 2014-06-28 12:59 -0800
          Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-28 18:02 -0400
            Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson) - 2014-06-28 17:11 -0800
              Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-28 23:39 -0400
                Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? floyd@apaflo.com (Floyd L. Davidson) - 2014-06-28 21:29 -0800
                Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-29 02:21 -0400
        Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? "David W. Hodgins" <dwhodgins@nomail.afraid.org> - 2014-06-29 15:23 -0400
          Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> - 2014-06-29 15:12 -0700
            Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2014-06-29 17:36 -0600
            Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? Mike Tomlinson <mike@jasper.org.uk> - 2014-07-01 10:37 +0100
              Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-07-01 16:14 +0000
              Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> - 2014-07-02 23:13 -0700
        Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2014-07-03 02:13 -0400
  Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? Arno <me@privacy.net> - 2014-06-28 22:08 +0000
    Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-28 19:42 -0400
      Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? Mike Tomlinson <mike@jasper.org.uk> - 2014-07-01 10:41 +0100
        Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? Lusotec <nomail@nomail.not> - 2014-07-01 11:31 +0100
  Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? Kevin McMurtrie <mcmurtrie@pixelmemory.us> - 2014-06-28 23:31 -0700
    Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2014-06-30 06:30 +1000
  Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? Andreas Rutishauser <andreas@macandreas.ch> - 2014-06-29 08:39 +0100
    Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> - 2014-06-29 12:01 -0700
      Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-29 16:53 -0400
        Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> - 2014-06-29 15:13 -0700
          Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-29 21:30 -0400
    Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? hal-usenet@ip-64-139-1-69.sjc.megapath.net (Hal Murray) - 2014-07-01 02:54 -0500
      Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? Poutnik <Poutnik@privacy.net> - 2014-07-01 10:39 +0200
      Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? "Rod Speed" <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> - 2014-07-02 09:49 +1000
      Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? Andreas Rutishauser <andreas@macandreas.ch> - 2014-07-02 08:18 +0100
        Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> - 2014-07-02 23:16 -0700
  Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? Michael Black <et472@ncf.ca> - 2014-06-29 12:36 -0400
    Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-06-29 14:06 -0400
  Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? Yousuf Khan <bbbl67@spammenot.yahoo.com> - 2014-07-03 02:16 -0400
    Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? Ant <ant@zimage.comANT> - 2014-07-02 23:19 -0700
    Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-07-03 18:55 +1200
    Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? "Charles T. Smith" <cts.private.yahoo@gmail.com> - 2014-07-03 12:46 +0000
      Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-07-03 14:31 -0400
        Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2014-07-03 19:57 +0100
          Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? "whacker james" <wj852@gmail.com> - 2014-07-04 09:02 +1000
            Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2014-07-04 00:23 +0100
              Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? Måns Rullgård <mans@mansr.com> - 2014-07-04 00:29 +0100
                Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> - 2014-07-04 00:47 +0100
              Re: Is it true that it is a bad idea to put a swap/pagefile on a SSD? "whacker james" <wj852@gmail.com> - 2014-07-04 17:54 +1000

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