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Groups > comp.lang.forth > #43036
| From | anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.lang.forth |
| Subject | Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) |
| Date | 2015-10-31 14:12 +0000 |
| Organization | Institut fuer Computersprachen, Technische Universitaet Wien |
| Message-ID | <2015Oct31.151219@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> (permalink) |
| References | (5 earlier) <n0r81b$ncv$1@dont-email.me> <563154cd.286908193@news.eternal-september.org> <2015Oct29.110043@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> <2015Oct29.171325@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at> <f4f64741-1cd4-4dff-943e-65ef80e66573@googlegroups.com> |
mhx@iae.nl writes:
>On Thursday, October 29, 2015 at 5:36:58 PM UTC+1, Anton Ertl wrote:
>> anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) writes:
>> [Separate FP stack standardized in Forth-2012]
>> >And as a consequence,
>> >programmers can now more easily write standard programs (without
>> >environmental dependencies), and these programs run faster than
>> >Forth-94 programs for the same task. Just to remind you:
>> >
>> >| Forth-2012 Forth-94
>> >|500x500 mm - normal algorithm 0.570s 0.727s
>> >|500x500 mm - transposed B matrix 0.550s 0.686s
>> >|500x500 mm - Robert's algorithm 0.547s 0.684s
>>
>> On the same machine with VFX-4.71 and Ndp387.fth:
>>
>> Forth-2012 Forth-94
>> 500x500 mm - normal algorithm 0.220s 0.230s
>> 500x500 mm - transposed B matrix 0.210s 0.220s
>> 500x500 mm - Robert's algorithm 0.210s 0.220s
>>
>> So the separate stack is faster than the Forth-94 way to program FP on
>> VFX, too.
>
>It is a minor point. If Forth FP is that slow on these compilers,
>the FP stack internals are not going to save them.
Sure, the ideal compiler will keep all the stack elements (FP and
integer ones) and locals in registers in these matrix multiplication
programs, and will generate exactly the same code for the Forth-94
variant, for the Forth-2012 variant, and for the variant with the
environmental dependency on a shared FP stack and one-cell FP values;
if there are not enough registers to keep the stack pointer(s) in
registers, they will be spilled before the matrix multiplication and
restored afterwards, at negligible cost. In that case, we should go
for the separate FP stack, because it's easiest to program.
However, real compilers are not ideal. And on the real compilers
gforth-fast and VFX, programming for a separate FP stack is not just
easier, but also faster. What about iForth?
>500x500 mm - normal algorithm 0.152 secs.
>500x500 mm - transposed B matrix 0.262 secs.
>500x500 mm - Robert's algorithm 0.041 secs.
Great results for normal and Robert's. But these results does not
contribute anything to the question of whether, as Stephen Pelc
suggested, we should go back to the Forth-94 model of programmers not
knowing whether FP items are on the data stack (and how many cells
they occupy there), or on a separate FP stack.
I also have a special MPE version of that benchmark lying around that
may run faster when fixed (currently it does not run on vfxlin at
all), but is also useless for evaluating the question above, because
it does not call DDOT.
BTW, as an alternative to turning a Forth-2012 variant into Forth-94
by keeping the FP values on the stack and moving the integers out of
the way into locals (as was used in the DDOT variant I used for the
experiments above), another option is to keep the integers on the
stack and move the FP values out of the way, e.g., into global
variables. For DDOT, the three variants would look like:
\ Forth-2012, separate FP stack
: DDOT ( addr1 inc1 addr2 inc2 count -- ) ( F: -- n )
SWAP DFLOATS >R ROT DFLOATS R> LOCALS| inc2 inc1 |
0e 0 ?DO SWAP DUP DF@ inc1 +
SWAP DUP DF@ inc2 +
F* F+
LOOP 2DROP ;
\ Forth-94 variant 1
: DDOT ( addr1 inc1 addr2 inc2 count -- r )
SWAP DFLOATS >R ROT DFLOATS R>
LOCALS| inc2 inc1 count addr2 addr1 |
0E0 count 0
?DO addr1 DUP inc1 + TO addr1 DF@
addr2 DUP inc2 + TO addr2 DF@ F* F+
LOOP ;
\ Forth-94 variant 2
fvariable s
fvariable t
: DDOT ( addr1 inc1 addr2 inc2 count -- ) ( F: -- n )
SWAP DFLOATS >R ROT DFLOATS R> LOCALS| inc2 inc1 |
0e s f!
0 ?DO ( addr1 addr2 )
SWAP DUP DF@ t f! inc1 +
SWAP DUP DF@ t f@ f* r f@ f+ r f! inc2 +
LOOP 2DROP r f@ ;
Variant 2 is significantly slower on VFX than variant 1.
Forth-2012 Forth-94
variant1 variant2
500x500 mm - normal algorithm 0.220s 0.230s 0.580s
500x500 mm - transposed B matrix 0.210s 0.220s 0.490s
500x500 mm - Robert's algorithm 0.210s 0.220s 0.490s
- anton
--
M. Anton Ertl http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/home.html
comp.lang.forth FAQs: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/forth/faq/toc.html
New standard: http://www.forth200x.org/forth200x.html
EuroForth 2015: http://www.rigwit.co.uk/EuroForth2015/
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alternatives to `find` Marcos Cruz <use_the_contact_page@programandala.net> - 2015-10-21 20:09 +0000
Re: alternatives to `find` anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-10-22 05:54 +0000
Re: alternatives to `find` Marcos Cruz <use_the_contact_page@programandala.net> - 2015-10-22 15:37 +0000
Re: alternatives to `find` Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-10-22 22:03 -0700
Re: alternatives to `find` Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-10-22 22:14 -0700
Re: alternatives to `find` hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-10-23 01:28 -0700
Re: alternatives to `find` Marcos Cruz <use_the_contact_page@programandala.net> - 2015-10-23 12:12 +0000
Re: alternatives to `find` anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-10-26 11:39 +0000
Re: alternatives to `find` Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-10-26 05:14 -0700
Re: alternatives to `find` Marcos Cruz <use_the_contact_page@programandala.net> - 2015-10-23 12:30 +0000
Re: alternatives to `find` Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-10-23 22:52 -0700
Re: alternatives to `find` Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-10-23 23:14 -0700
Re: alternatives to `find` Marcos Cruz <use_the_contact_page@programandala.net> - 2015-10-24 11:15 +0000
Re: alternatives to `find` Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2015-10-24 14:34 +0200
Re: alternatives to `find` anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-10-24 14:45 +0000
Re: alternatives to `find` Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2015-10-24 17:23 +0200
Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) Marcos Cruz <use_the_contact_page@programandala.net> - 2015-10-24 11:53 +0000
Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-10-24 22:48 -0700
Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-10-24 21:05 -1000
Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-10-25 01:34 -0700
Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-10-24 22:45 -1000
Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-10-25 09:16 +0000
Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-10-25 08:46 -1000
Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-10-25 21:31 -0700
Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-10-25 18:50 +0100
Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-10-26 01:57 -0700
Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-10-26 02:07 -0700
Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) Ron Aaron <rambamist@gmail.com> - 2015-10-26 11:14 +0200
Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-10-26 04:18 -0700
Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) "Elizabeth D. Rather" <erather@forth.com> - 2015-10-26 09:22 -1000
Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-10-26 21:34 -0700
Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-10-26 10:58 +0000
Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-10-26 05:59 -0700
Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-10-26 14:58 +0100
Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-10-27 17:09 +0000
Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-10-28 12:50 +0000
Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-10-28 15:56 +0000
Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-10-28 10:31 -0700
Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-10-28 19:26 +0100
Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-10-28 12:37 -0700
Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-10-28 23:03 +0000
Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-10-28 16:21 -0700
Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-10-28 20:37 +0100
Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-10-28 23:13 +0000
Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-10-29 03:01 +0100
Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-10-29 10:04 +0000
Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-10-29 15:29 +0000
Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-10-30 04:17 -0700
Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2015-10-30 11:36 +0000
Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-10-31 15:25 +0000
Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2015-10-31 20:34 +0000
Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2015-10-30 20:51 +0000
Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-11-02 01:39 -0800
Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-11-02 11:12 +0000
Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2015-11-02 12:09 +0000
Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-11-02 05:09 -0800
Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) Raimond Dragomir <raimond.dragomir@gmail.com> - 2015-11-02 06:23 -0800
Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-11-02 14:39 +0000
Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) Gerry Jackson <gerry@jackson9000.fsnet.co.uk> - 2015-11-20 16:20 +0000
Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-11-21 00:26 -0800
Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-10-31 15:03 +0000
Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-10-31 16:35 +0000
Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-11-01 14:07 +0000
Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-11-01 21:05 +0100
Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-10-31 16:31 +0000
Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-10-31 20:33 +0100
Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) Bernd Paysan <bernd.paysan@gmx.de> - 2015-10-29 22:27 +0100
Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-10-29 13:19 +0000
Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-10-29 10:00 +0000
Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-10-29 13:29 +0000
Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-10-29 14:04 +0000
Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-10-29 16:29 +0000
Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-10-29 16:42 +0000
Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-10-29 16:13 +0000
Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) mhx@iae.nl - 2015-10-29 12:19 -0700
Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-10-31 14:12 +0000
Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) stephen@mpeforth.com (Stephen Pelc) - 2015-10-31 16:49 +0000
Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) Paul Rubin <no.email@nospam.invalid> - 2015-10-31 10:33 -0700
Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-11-01 14:14 +0000
Re: Preserving standard and common use names (Re: alternatives to `find`) hughaguilar96@gmail.com - 2015-10-25 21:52 -0700
Re: alternatives to `find` Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2015-10-30 12:30 +0000
Re: alternatives to `find` anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-10-26 11:47 +0000
Re: alternatives to `find` Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-11-02 06:17 -0800
Re: alternatives to `find` Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-11-02 06:35 -0800
Re: alternatives to `find` Coos Haak <chforth@hccnet.nl> - 2015-11-02 15:45 +0100
Re: alternatives to `find` Chris Curl <ccurl609@gmail.com> - 2015-11-02 07:17 -0800
Re: alternatives to `find` Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2015-11-02 19:39 +0000
Re: alternatives to `find` Mark Wills <markwills1970@gmail.com> - 2015-11-02 12:19 -0800
Re: alternatives to `find` anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-11-03 11:31 +0000
Re: alternatives to `find` Albert van der Horst <albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl> - 2015-11-03 21:11 +0000
MOVE and CMOVE speed (was: alternatives to `find`) anton@mips.complang.tuwien.ac.at (Anton Ertl) - 2015-11-04 09:52 +0000
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