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| From | Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | sci.logic, comp.lang.prolog, sci.physics |
| Subject | Texture inside my compute shader makes no sense (Re: I am using WebGPU, and not WebGL) |
| Date | 2026-08-02 02:40 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <114m3mh$qh7p$3@solani.org> (permalink) |
| References | (1 earlier) <114cmmv$jmhc$2@solani.org> <114kh7q$ovdp$5@solani.org> <114knri$pjus$3@solani.org> <114kohb$pkdq$3@solani.org> <114lt1j$qdjc$2@solani.org> |
Cross-posted to 3 groups.
Hi, > It has textures to work with in the pipeline. Hi, Why would I use text inside my compute shader. Could you tell me. The Hack VM doesn't do textures. You are confused. There is nothing about textures here: 11.4 Giga Lips with a Budget Laptop https://github.com/Jean-Luc-Picard-2021/gigabudget You can read the text , it says nowhere consume or produce textures. Its not a rendering application. I use the compute shader to run Prolog: "At the end of 2025 we acquired a couple of AI Laptops , that were still cheap, since RAM prices had not yet rocketed. The intend was to tap into the Copilot+ certified hardware, and shave off some of the TOPS to do Prolog inferencing. Amazingly our π-WAM can churn 11.4 GIGA LIPS. GPUs have evolved form lock-step to independent thread scheduling. This made it possible to port the Hack VM variant, that forms the basis for our π-WAM, to WebGPU computer shaders. Using NUM_SHADERS = 4096 we could produce 11.4 Giga Lips on a Ryzen AI 7 350 w/ Radeon 860M." Bye Mild Shock schrieb: > Hi, > > WebGPU and WebGL are two different things. I explained > that towards you already like 3-5 times. > > > Of course we can make a special texture to handle it. > > You still don't understand that I am using WebGPU, > and not WebGL. WebGPU has three improvements, > that from your talking are missing in WebGL? > > - It has compute shaders > - It has arrays > - It has structs > - What else? > > I didn't use structs in my example, although Gemini > nearly forced me to use structs. But you could > use a struct with fields and some of these arrays > > to represent a queue. But here in this example > that is open source, I only used flat arrays. I > nowhere needed to abuse textures to store something: > > 11.4 Giga Lips with a Budget Laptop > https://github.com/Jean-Luc-Picard-2021/gigabudget > > You can study the source code, the arrays have > CUDA inspired binding annotations but are not > CUDA but rather WGSL: > > Hack VM as a Compute Shader in WGSL > @group(0) @binding(0) var<storage, read> code: array<i32>; > @group(0) @binding(1) var<storage, read_write> state: array<i32>; > https://github.com/Jean-Luc-Picard-2021/gigabudget/blob/main/course/example63/boot.mjs > > > You can say whether a buffer is read, or read_write. > Buffers can be transfered from CPU to GPU, before > running commands, and transfered back from GPU to > > CPU after running commands. The use case that > you find on GitHub uses both. Namely also fetching > results via a buffer, to then show them in > > the HTML page. Shouldn't be much a problem to > run the example at home locally, all you need is > a HTTPS server. But the example is not yet queues, > > but it already shows the foundation, which is WebGPU > with its language WGSL and not WebGL with its language > GLSL. These are two different things. > > I explained that towards you already like 3-5 times. > > Bye > > Chris M. Thomasson schrieb: > > On 8/1/2026 5:22 AM, Mild Shock wrote: > >> Hi, > >> > >> As easy as queues and FIFO objects might > >> sound. They don't like congestion. NACK for > >> retransmission might double the Manhattan Distance: > > [...] > > > > You are going to need a place to allocate nodes in the compute > shader. Of course we can make a special texture to handle it. But, we > need to strive to avoid a wait condition. I don't want a compute shader > to spin. Yes, CAS can be used, but, try to make it be used as a "state > machine", where the transitions from states are atomic. Try to avoid it > making a loop, where we loop on failure. > > > Mild Shock schrieb: >> Hi, >> >> As easy as queues and FIFO objects might >> sound. They don't like congestion. NACK for >> retransmission might double the Manhattan Distance: >> >> You have not only start >> S to end E communication: >> >> +----E >> | >> | >> S >> >> You might also have ACK or NACK >> from E or midpoints back to S: >> >> S' >> + >> + >> E' >> >> Ok, I made that up, I have no idea what a flit is, >> when the author wrote this here: >> >> "Packet flits are held in the FIFO which can >> be used to determine back pressure. Dropping flits >> in a NoC may not be possible since these >> architectures may not provide an end-to-end >> protocol for retransmission." >> >> Routing Algorithms for 2D NoC Architectures >> http://cva.stanford.edu/classes/ee382c/research/2DRouting.pdf >> >> Bye >> >> Mild Shock schrieb: >>> Hi, >>> >>> Looking at the floor plan of a NPU: >>> >>> Getting peak TOPS on a Ryzen AI 7 350 NPU >>> https://destevez.net/2026/05/getting-peak-tops-on-a-ryzen-ai-7-350-npu/ >>> >>> It seems to me comms between tiles takes >>> at least Manhattan Distance or L1 Norm time, >>> if there is no comms congestion >>> >>> But how does a packet travel? This way: >>> >>> +----E >>> | >>> | >>> S >>> >>> Or this way, from start S to end E: >>> >>> +-E >>> + >>> + >>> S >>> >>> And what does the chip do if there is >>> traffic congestion? Some papers are >>> here, possibly an old problem giving >>> >>> that processor "cubes" are nothing new. >>> But a "cube" would be 3D and not 2D. >>> This paper is old from 2007 or so: >>> >>> Routing Algorithms for 2D NoC Architectures >>> http://cva.stanford.edu/classes/ee382c/research/2DRouting.pdf >>> >>> Bye >
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The Wuhan Virus that destroyed Python [ggml Manifesto] Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-22 21:01 +0200
Deadlock Exorcism: Switch from Push to Pull [A pi-calculus Specification of Prolog] (Re: The Wuhan Virus that destroyed Python [ggml Manifesto]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-23 00:25 +0200
Why do you even need a mpmc queue? [Thunder Kittens] (Re: Deadlock Exorcism: Switch from Push to Pull) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-23 08:45 +0200
Trivial balancing example for (int i=0; i<global_id; i++) (Re: Why do you even need a mpmc queue? [Thunder Kittens]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-23 08:55 +0200
The Pixel Phone AI Experiment Song (Enqueue/dequeue need not be fast and can spinn ["fairness" questions]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-23 09:19 +0200
Enqueue/dequeue need not be fast and can spinn ["fairness" questions] (Re: The Pixel Phone AI Experiment Song (Enqueue/dequeue need not be fast and can spinn ["fairness" questions]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-23 09:23 +0200
And, where did I talk about rockets? [Hint its about xAI's Grok] (Re: Why do you even need a mpmc queue? [Thunder Kittens]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-25 01:25 +0200
Why forget something, that was never on my mind (Re: And, where did I talk about rockets? [Hint its about xAI's Grok]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-25 09:49 +0200
Example Mandel Brot rendering [Faster with MIMD] (Was: Why do you even need a mpmc queue? [Thunder Kittens]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-25 09:56 +0200
Potential Python Recovery: Free Threading [3.13 release] (Re: The Wuhan Virus that destroyed Python [ggml Manifesto]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-23 10:21 +0200
The things XILINX braught to the AMD table (Re: The Wuhan Virus that destroyed Python [ggml Manifesto]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-23 18:48 +0200
NVIDIA evacuated its Chinese market [Tau Scaling] (Re: The things XILINX braught to the AMD table) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-23 19:13 +0200
Micro penis mother sung arias (Re: NVIDIA evacuated its Chinese market [Tau Scaling]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-24 14:40 +0200
Micro penis brain is in constant hiatus (Re: Micro penis mother sung arias) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-24 15:27 +0200
Ignoramus or Ignorabimus: I don't care [(Re: Micro penis brain is in constant hiatus (Re: Micro penis mother sung arias) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-24 15:35 +0200
You are a moron, brainless putin payed (Re: Ignoramus or Ignorabimus: I don't care) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-24 18:01 +0200
Yeah keep reading my posts, uninspired fool (Re: You are a moron, brainless putin payed) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-24 19:47 +0200
Out of the blue accusation span 15 days [Empirical USENET study] (Re: Ignoramus or Ignorabimus: I don't care) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-24 20:27 +0200
A brain desease of 20 days [Rossy Boy] (Re: Ignoramus or Ignorabimus: I don't care) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 18:41 +0200
I didn't use a Ryzen Halo, whats wrong with you? (Re: A brain desease of 20 days [Rossy Boy]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 23:25 +0200
Ignoramus / Ignorabimus Barometer: Almost 1 Month (Re: A brain desease of 20 days [Rossy Boy]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-03 00:07 +0200
Re: NVIDIA evacuated its Chinese market [Tau Scaling] (Re: The things XILINX braught to the AMD table) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-28 14:17 +0200
ASML stocks are plunging, bye bye dutchies (Re: NVIDIA evacuated its Chinese market [Tau Scaling]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-28 14:18 +0200
Little Data Center on Your Palm [AI Laptops for 500 USD] (Re: The Wuhan Virus that destroyed Python [ggml Manifesto]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-24 17:59 +0200
2008: 4 Blades + Tesla S1070 versus 2026: 1 AI Laptop (Re: Little Data Center on Your Palm [AI Laptops for 500 USD]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-24 18:15 +0200
Hurry the blue bus doesnt stop indefinitely (Re: The Wuhan Virus that destroyed Python [ggml Manifesto]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-24 20:37 +0200
Not SIMD, a MIMD design for NVIDIA Volta (Re: Hurry the blue bus doesnt stop indefinitely) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-24 20:58 +0200
Could take 3-4 months find machine / browser (Re: Not SIMD, a MIMD design for NVIDIA Volta) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-24 21:16 +0200
The Koan of pi-WAM queues [FORTRAN-S] (Re: Not SIMD, a MIMD design for NVIDIA Volta) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-26 19:54 +0200
The turbo capping of AI Laptops (Was: The Koan of pi-WAM queues [FORTRAN-S]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-26 20:00 +0200
Re: The Koan of pi-WAM queues [FORTRAN-S] (Re: Not SIMD, a MIMD design for NVIDIA Volta) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-27 09:16 +0200
Why forget Bulgarians, never on my mind (Re: The Koan of pi-WAM queues [FORTRAN-S]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-27 09:16 +0200
miniTriton CUDA is an alternative to torch variants (Re: Why forget Bulgarians, never on my mind) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-27 09:52 +0200
Andrej Karpathy original gangster of Budget Laptop (Re: miniTriton CUDA is an alternative to torch variants) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-27 09:54 +0200
The evolution of hardware and GPT-2 training (Re: Why forget Bulgarians, never on my mind) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-27 10:57 +0200
How speed up π-WAM with vector operations (Re: The evolution of hardware and GPT-2 training) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-27 11:10 +0200
AI accelerator extend from GPU to CPU [Zero Copying] (Re: How speed up π-WAM with vector operations) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-27 13:21 +0200
The invention of vector and matrix registers [NVIDIA Volta] (Re: AI accelerator extend from GPU to CPU [Zero Copying]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-27 13:22 +0200
Re: The invention of vector and matrix registers [NVIDIA Volta] (Re: AI accelerator extend from GPU to CPU [Zero Copying]) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-27 07:34 -0700
Maybe they should have named it NVIDIA Einstein [Rossy Boy Toe Sucking] (Was: The invention of vector and matrix registers [NVIDIA Volta]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-27 17:12 +0200
Re: The invention of vector and matrix registers [NVIDIA Volta] (Re: AI accelerator extend from GPU to CPU [Zero Copying]) R Kym Horsell <kym@sdf.com> - 2026-07-27 15:43 +0000
Re: The invention of vector and matrix registers [NVIDIA Volta] (Re: AI accelerator extend from GPU to CPU [Zero Copying]) R Kym Horsell <kymhorsell@gmail.com> - 2026-07-27 15:46 +0000
π-WAM is not adding decimals, it is removing decimals (Was: The invention of vector and matrix registers [NVIDIA Volta]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-27 18:34 +0200
In Budget Laptops the TOPS come with low energy footprint (Re: π-WAM is not adding decimals, it is removing decimals) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-27 18:45 +0200
Potato Computer owner impressed by Ukraine Tech [Rossy Boys Brother?] (Was: Hurry the blue bus doesnt stop indefinitely) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-27 16:56 +0200
Rossy Boy is neither Einstein nor Zweistein (Was: Potato Computer owner impressed by Ukraine Tech) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-27 18:25 +0200
You are still chewing on SIMD. LoL (Re: Rossy Boy is neither Einstein nor Zweistein) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 17:12 +0200
Hurry Rossy Boy, the blue bus is waiting (Re: You are still chewing on SIMD. LoL) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 17:53 +0200
Look how they advertized CUDA and logical threads (Re: Hurry Rossy Boy, the blue bus is waiting) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 17:55 +0200
Forget any arithmetization of product FSA (Re: Look how they advertized CUDA and logical threads) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 17:58 +0200
Rossy Boys tears could cool a data center [pi-WAM Interleaved Synchronized Emulator] (Re: You are still chewing on SIMD. LoL) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 20:06 +0200
I don't use Rust, you are crazy [Jump off a bridge, idiot] (Re: Rossy Boys tears could cool a data center [pi-WAM Interleaved Synchronized Emulator]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 20:25 +0200
Hack ecosystem ignorance paired with paranoia [Nand to Tetris] (Re: I don't use Rust, you are crazy) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 22:52 +0200
A funny Q16.16 experiment with Hack (Re: Hack ecosystem ignorance paired with paranoia [Nand to Tetris]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 23:11 +0200
Summer Challenge: libSQL = Prolog+Modes [VDBE versus π-WAM] (Was: A funny Q16.16 experiment with Hack) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-30 11:25 +0200
I wrote Hack VM for π-WAM from scratch [4 Months total JavaScript, Python and Java] (Re: Hack ecosystem ignorance paired with paranoia) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-30 19:37 +0200
For WebGPU I first had SIMD in mind (Re: I wrote Hack VM for π-WAM from scratch) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-30 19:51 +0200
Corr.: 4 Months --> 4 Weeks (Re: For WebGPU I first had SIMD in mind) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-30 20:05 +0200
MIPS is a big Huffman mess [But Hack could do it] (Re: I wrote Hack VM for π-WAM from scratch) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-30 22:32 +0200
Not declarative with PHI (Φ) nodes (Was: MIPS is a big Huffman mess [But Hack could do it]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-30 22:38 +0200
Not declarative with PHI (Φ) nodes (Re: MIPS is a big Huffman mess [But Hack could do it]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-30 22:39 +0200
Re: MIPS is a big Huffman mess [But Hack could do it] (Re: I wrote Hack VM for π-WAM from scratch) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-31 09:52 -0700
Re: MIPS is a big Huffman mess [But Hack could do it] (Re: I wrote Hack VM for π-WAM from scratch) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-31 10:00 -0700
Re: MIPS is a big Huffman mess [But Hack could do it] (Re: I wrote Hack VM for π-WAM from scratch) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-31 10:07 -0700
Quo Vadis: Extend investigations to WebNN (Was: I wrote Hack VM for π-WAM from scratch [4 Months total JavaScript, Python and Java]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-31 20:43 +0200
Got it. Or are you too stupid? [New Usenet Mantra] (Was: The Wuhan Virus that destroyed Python [ggml Manifesto]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-27 18:59 +0200
Lamas in a cradle and Lamas on the edge [Red Pyjama] (Re: The Wuhan Virus that destroyed Python [ggml Manifesto]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 13:03 +0200
AI Accelerators and ISO Prolog multi-threading (Re: Lamas in a cradle and Lamas on the edge [Red Pyjama]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 17:02 +0200
Actor/Erlang is dead, no Thread and Mailbox conflation [golang channels] (Re: AI Accelerators and ISO Prolog multi-threading) (Re: Lamas in a cradle and Lamas on the edge [Red Pyjama]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 17:04 +0200
Can library(ironpaw) repurpose FFT hardware [Glimps into Ryzen AI 7 350] (Re: Actor/Erlang is dead, no Thread and Mailbox conflation ) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-01 02:32 +0200
Tablet and phone UBS-C remote debugging (Re: Lamas in a cradle and Lamas on the edge [Red Pyjama]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-01 12:19 +0200
NPUs doing 2d chess comms (Manhattan Distance or L1 Norm) (Re: Tablet and phone UBS-C remote debugging) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-01 14:12 +0200
NACK retransmission might double Manhattan Distance (Re: NPUs doing 2d chess comms) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-01 14:24 +0200
I am using WebGPU, and not WebGL (Re: NACK retransmission might double Manhattan Distance) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-02 00:47 +0200
Texture inside my compute shader makes no sense (Re: I am using WebGPU, and not WebGL) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-02 02:40 +0200
Prolog inferencing and not canvasing fancy stuff (Re: Texture inside my compute shader makes no sense) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-02 02:42 +0200
Chris M. Thomasson can ask 100 more questions (Was: Tablet and phone UBS-C remote debugging) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-02 02:46 +0200
npm install webgpu [Google Dawn] (Re: Chris M. Thomasson can ask 100 more questions) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-02 03:03 +0200
GPU elasticity was already invented in 2008 with CUDA (Re: npm install webgpu [Google Dawn]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-03 00:01 +0200
Even send_color and recv_color can block [Cerebras Waver] (Re: The Wuhan Virus that destroyed Python [ggml Manifesto]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-02 23:39 +0200
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