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NPUs doing 2d chess comms (Manhattan Distance or L1 Norm) (Re: Tablet and phone UBS-C remote debugging)

From Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm>
Newsgroups sci.logic, comp.lang.prolog, sci.physics
Subject NPUs doing 2d chess comms (Manhattan Distance or L1 Norm) (Re: Tablet and phone UBS-C remote debugging)
Date 2026-08-01 14:12 +0200
Message-ID <114knri$pjus$3@solani.org> (permalink)
References <113r42n$8g50$2@solani.org> <114cmmv$jmhc$2@solani.org> <114kh7q$ovdp$5@solani.org>

Cross-posted to 3 groups.

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Hi,

Looking at the floor plan of a NPU:

Getting peak TOPS on a Ryzen AI 7 350 NPU
https://destevez.net/2026/05/getting-peak-tops-on-a-ryzen-ai-7-350-npu/

It seems to me comms between tiles takes
at least Manhattan Distance or L1 Norm time,
if there is no comms congestion

But how does a packet travel? This way:

+----E
|
|
S

Or this way, from start S to end E:

    +-E
   +
  +
S

And what does the chip do if there is
traffic congestion? Some papers are
here, possibly an old problem giving

that processor "cubes" are nothing new.
But a "cube" would be 3D and not 2D.
This paper is old from 2007 or so:

Routing Algorithms for 2D NoC Architectures
http://cva.stanford.edu/classes/ee382c/research/2DRouting.pdf

Bye

Mild Shock schrieb:
> Hi,
> 
> Tablets and phone are more annoying to
> use with WebGPU. The usual browsers don't
> have a Chrome DevTools panel integrated,
> 
> so that one could do JavaScript Debugging
> directly on the device. Instead one has to
> use a desktop machine, and connect the
> 
> device via UBS-C , and start a Chrome
> Browser there . And then start a Chrome
> DevTools panel alone, that is pair with
> 
> the device, via UBS-C cable. So this way
> I already see where it crashes on the
> tablets and phone:
> 
> await output.mapAsync(GPUMapMode.READ)
> Unhandled Promise Rejection: OperationError
> 
> The above is the error that one can re-produce
> already here with this test:
> 
> 11.4 Giga Lips with a Budget Laptop
> https://github.com/Jean-Luc-Picard-2021/gigabudget
> 
> Not sure what exactly happens. Maybe
> a form of timeout or device lost, that the
> primitive HTML / JavaScript doesn't handle
> 
> gracefully yet. Maybe redimensioning the
> test, so that it consumes less time would
> help. Who knows? Will see. For production
> 
> use of a GPU integration I have to anyway
> provide work slicing it seems.
> 
> Bye
> 
> Mild Shock schrieb:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Why does this Lama have a red pyjama.
>> Oh, its a baby Lama. Its still in the cradle
>> and needs some training:
>>
>> RedPajama-Data-v2
>> https://github.com/togethercomputer/RedPajama-Data
>>
>> But then Andrej Karpathy recently showed
>> GPT-2 training on rented GPUs for less
>> than 100 USD in less then 2 hours.
>>
>> So where do these grown up Lamas go.
>> Well Georgi Gerganov prefered C++/C
>> when he shouted Llama Llama Red Pyjama.
>>
>> But you also find WebLLM, wrapping the
>> underlying C++/C GPU interface via the
>> W3C standard WebGPU / WGSL, with JavaScript:
>>
>> In-Browser LLM Inference Engine
>> https://webllm.mlc.ai/
>>
>> My experience with WebLLM 6 months
>> ago on an iPad Pro 2024, still a little early
>> stage performance and robustness.
>>
>> But hey hardware of AI mobile iGPUs is
>> still evolving, and AI laptop, AI smartphones
>> and AI tablets, will soon feature Chinese
>>
>> hardware such some new Kirin AI in 2027.
>>
>> Bye
>>
>> Mild Shock schrieb:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Remember when first all local AI was Python
>>> and PyTorch APIs. And then suddently people started
>>> using bare metal C/C++ Code. Here is the story:
>>>
>>> How it started:
>>>
>>> GPT-J or GPT-J-6B is an open-source large
>>> language model (LLM) developed by EleutherAI
>>> in 2021. As the name suggests, it is a
>>> generative pre-trained transformer model
>>> designed to produce human-like text that
>>> continues from a prompt.
>>> https://www.eleuther.ai/
>>>
>>> How it was going [Georgi Gerganov]:
>>>
>>> So a few days later comes out the LLaMA, I do
>>> some calculations and I figure out “Okay, 65
>>> billion parameters. You probably need about
>>> 40 gigs of RAM, with 4-bit quantization. So
>>> this can run on a MacBook. Why not do it?”
>>>
>>> Why I was able to do it so quickly - basically,
>>> for all that I saw it’s pretty much GPT-J architecture
>>> with some modifications, like some extra memorization
>>> layers. It’s minor changes. Basically, again, the
>>> existing code for the GPT-J, I just simply
>>> modified it there, it happened pretty quickly.
>>> https://changelog.com/podcast/532
>>>
>>> Georgi Gerganov, Bulgarian, now with Hugging
>>> Face, ggml-cann also running on Chinese AI chips.
>>> ggml Manifesto https://github.com/ggml-org/ggml
>>>
>>> Bye
>>
>

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The Wuhan Virus that destroyed Python [ggml Manifesto] Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-22 21:01 +0200
  Deadlock Exorcism: Switch from Push to Pull [A pi-calculus Specification of Prolog] (Re: The Wuhan Virus that destroyed Python [ggml Manifesto]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-23 00:25 +0200
    Why do you even need a mpmc queue? [Thunder Kittens] (Re: Deadlock Exorcism: Switch from Push to Pull) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-23 08:45 +0200
      Trivial balancing example for (int i=0; i<global_id; i++) (Re: Why do you even need a mpmc queue? [Thunder Kittens]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-23 08:55 +0200
        The Pixel Phone AI Experiment Song (Enqueue/dequeue need not be fast and can spinn ["fairness" questions]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-23 09:19 +0200
          Enqueue/dequeue need not be fast and can spinn ["fairness" questions] (Re: The Pixel Phone AI Experiment Song (Enqueue/dequeue need not be fast and can spinn ["fairness" questions]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-23 09:23 +0200
      And, where did I talk about rockets? [Hint its about xAI's Grok] (Re: Why do you even need a mpmc queue? [Thunder Kittens]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-25 01:25 +0200
        Why forget something, that was never on my mind (Re: And, where did I talk about rockets? [Hint its about xAI's Grok]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-25 09:49 +0200
      Example Mandel Brot rendering [Faster with MIMD] (Was: Why do you even need a mpmc queue? [Thunder Kittens]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-25 09:56 +0200
  Potential Python Recovery: Free Threading [3.13 release] (Re: The Wuhan Virus that destroyed Python [ggml Manifesto]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-23 10:21 +0200
  The things XILINX braught to the AMD table (Re: The Wuhan Virus that destroyed Python [ggml Manifesto]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-23 18:48 +0200
    NVIDIA evacuated its Chinese market [Tau Scaling] (Re: The things XILINX braught to the AMD table) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-23 19:13 +0200
      Micro penis mother sung arias (Re: NVIDIA evacuated its Chinese market [Tau Scaling]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-24 14:40 +0200
        Micro penis brain is in constant hiatus (Re: Micro penis mother sung arias) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-24 15:27 +0200
          Ignoramus or Ignorabimus: I don't care [(Re: Micro penis brain is in constant hiatus (Re: Micro penis mother sung arias) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-24 15:35 +0200
            You are a moron, brainless putin payed (Re: Ignoramus or Ignorabimus: I don't care) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-24 18:01 +0200
              Yeah keep reading my posts, uninspired fool (Re: You are a moron, brainless putin payed) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-24 19:47 +0200
            Out of the blue accusation span 15 days [Empirical USENET study] (Re: Ignoramus or Ignorabimus: I don't care) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-24 20:27 +0200
            A brain desease of 20 days [Rossy Boy] (Re: Ignoramus or Ignorabimus: I don't care) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 18:41 +0200
              I didn't use a Ryzen Halo, whats wrong with you? (Re: A brain desease of 20 days [Rossy Boy]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 23:25 +0200
      Re: NVIDIA evacuated its Chinese market [Tau Scaling] (Re: The things XILINX braught to the AMD table) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-28 14:17 +0200
      ASML stocks are plunging, bye bye dutchies (Re: NVIDIA evacuated its Chinese market [Tau Scaling]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-28 14:18 +0200
  Little Data Center on Your Palm [AI Laptops for 500 USD] (Re: The Wuhan Virus that destroyed Python [ggml Manifesto]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-24 17:59 +0200
    2008: 4 Blades + Tesla S1070 versus 2026: 1 AI Laptop (Re: Little Data Center on Your Palm [AI Laptops for 500 USD]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-24 18:15 +0200
  Hurry the blue bus doesnt stop indefinitely (Re: The Wuhan Virus that destroyed Python [ggml Manifesto]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-24 20:37 +0200
    Not SIMD, a MIMD design for NVIDIA Volta (Re: Hurry the blue bus doesnt stop indefinitely) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-24 20:58 +0200
      Could take 3-4 months find machine / browser (Re: Not SIMD, a MIMD design for NVIDIA Volta) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-24 21:16 +0200
      The Koan of pi-WAM queues [FORTRAN-S] (Re: Not SIMD, a MIMD design for NVIDIA Volta) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-26 19:54 +0200
        The turbo capping of AI Laptops (Was: The Koan of pi-WAM queues [FORTRAN-S]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-26 20:00 +0200
        Re: The Koan of pi-WAM queues [FORTRAN-S] (Re: Not SIMD, a MIMD design for NVIDIA Volta) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-27 09:16 +0200
        Why forget Bulgarians, never on my mind (Re: The Koan of pi-WAM queues [FORTRAN-S]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-27 09:16 +0200
          miniTriton CUDA is an alternative to torch variants (Re: Why forget Bulgarians, never on my mind) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-27 09:52 +0200
            Andrej Karpathy original gangster of Budget Laptop (Re: miniTriton CUDA is an alternative to torch variants) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-27 09:54 +0200
          The evolution of hardware and GPT-2 training (Re: Why forget Bulgarians, never on my mind) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-27 10:57 +0200
            How speed up π-WAM with vector operations (Re: The evolution of hardware and GPT-2 training) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-27 11:10 +0200
              AI accelerator extend from GPU to CPU [Zero Copying] (Re: How speed up π-WAM with vector operations) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-27 13:21 +0200
                The invention of vector and matrix registers [NVIDIA Volta] (Re: AI accelerator extend from GPU to CPU [Zero Copying]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-27 13:22 +0200
                Re: The invention of vector and matrix registers [NVIDIA Volta] (Re: AI accelerator extend from GPU to CPU [Zero Copying]) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-27 07:34 -0700
                Maybe they should have named it NVIDIA Einstein [Rossy Boy Toe Sucking] (Was: The invention of vector and matrix registers [NVIDIA Volta]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-27 17:12 +0200
                Re: The invention of vector and matrix registers [NVIDIA Volta] (Re: AI accelerator extend from GPU to CPU [Zero Copying]) R Kym Horsell <kym@sdf.com> - 2026-07-27 15:43 +0000
                Re: The invention of vector and matrix registers [NVIDIA Volta] (Re: AI accelerator extend from GPU to CPU [Zero Copying]) R Kym Horsell <kymhorsell@gmail.com> - 2026-07-27 15:46 +0000
                π-WAM is not adding decimals, it is removing decimals (Was: The invention of vector and matrix registers [NVIDIA Volta]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-27 18:34 +0200
                In Budget Laptops the TOPS come with low energy footprint (Re: π-WAM is not adding decimals, it is removing decimals) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-27 18:45 +0200
    Potato Computer owner impressed by Ukraine Tech [Rossy Boys Brother?] (Was: Hurry the blue bus doesnt stop indefinitely) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-27 16:56 +0200
      Rossy Boy is neither Einstein nor Zweistein (Was: Potato Computer owner impressed by Ukraine Tech) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-27 18:25 +0200
        You are still chewing on SIMD. LoL (Re: Rossy Boy is neither Einstein nor Zweistein) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 17:12 +0200
          Hurry Rossy Boy, the blue bus is waiting (Re: You are still chewing on SIMD. LoL) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 17:53 +0200
            Look how they advertized CUDA and logical threads (Re: Hurry Rossy Boy, the blue bus is waiting) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 17:55 +0200
              Forget any arithmetization of product FSA (Re: Look how they advertized CUDA and logical threads) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 17:58 +0200
          Rossy Boys tears could cool a data center [pi-WAM Interleaved Synchronized Emulator] (Re: You are still chewing on SIMD. LoL) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 20:06 +0200
            I don't use Rust, you are crazy [Jump off a bridge, idiot] (Re: Rossy Boys tears could cool a data center [pi-WAM Interleaved Synchronized Emulator]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 20:25 +0200
              Hack ecosystem ignorance paired with paranoia [Nand to Tetris] (Re: I don't use Rust, you are crazy) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 22:52 +0200
                A funny Q16.16 experiment with Hack (Re: Hack ecosystem ignorance paired with paranoia [Nand to Tetris]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 23:11 +0200
                Summer Challenge: libSQL = Prolog+Modes [VDBE versus π-WAM] (Was: A funny Q16.16 experiment with Hack) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-30 11:25 +0200
                I wrote Hack VM for π-WAM from scratch [4 Months total JavaScript, Python and Java] (Re: Hack ecosystem ignorance paired with paranoia) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-30 19:37 +0200
                For WebGPU I first had SIMD in mind (Re: I wrote Hack VM for π-WAM from scratch) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-30 19:51 +0200
                Corr.: 4 Months --> 4 Weeks (Re: For WebGPU I first had SIMD in mind) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-30 20:05 +0200
                MIPS is a big Huffman mess [But Hack could do it] (Re: I wrote Hack VM for π-WAM from scratch) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-30 22:32 +0200
                Not declarative with PHI (Φ) nodes (Was: MIPS is a big Huffman mess [But Hack could do it]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-30 22:38 +0200
                Not declarative with PHI (Φ) nodes (Re: MIPS is a big Huffman mess [But Hack could do it]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-30 22:39 +0200
                Re: MIPS is a big Huffman mess [But Hack could do it] (Re: I wrote Hack VM for π-WAM from scratch) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-31 09:52 -0700
                Re: MIPS is a big Huffman mess [But Hack could do it] (Re: I wrote Hack VM for π-WAM from scratch) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-31 10:00 -0700
                Re: MIPS is a big Huffman mess [But Hack could do it] (Re: I wrote Hack VM for π-WAM from scratch) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-31 10:07 -0700
                Quo Vadis: Extend investigations to WebNN (Was: I wrote Hack VM for π-WAM from scratch [4 Months total JavaScript, Python and Java]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-31 20:43 +0200
  Got it. Or are you too stupid? [New Usenet Mantra] (Was: The Wuhan Virus that destroyed Python [ggml Manifesto]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-27 18:59 +0200
  Lamas in a cradle and Lamas on the edge [Red Pyjama] (Re: The Wuhan Virus that destroyed Python [ggml Manifesto]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 13:03 +0200
    AI Accelerators and ISO Prolog multi-threading (Re: Lamas in a cradle and Lamas on the edge [Red Pyjama]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 17:02 +0200
      Actor/Erlang is dead, no Thread and Mailbox conflation [golang channels] (Re: AI Accelerators and ISO Prolog multi-threading) (Re: Lamas in a cradle and Lamas on the edge [Red Pyjama]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-29 17:04 +0200
        Can library(ironpaw) repurpose FFT hardware [Glimps into Ryzen AI 7 350] (Re: Actor/Erlang is dead, no Thread and Mailbox conflation ) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-01 02:32 +0200
    Tablet and phone UBS-C remote debugging (Re: Lamas in a cradle and Lamas on the edge [Red Pyjama]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-01 12:19 +0200
      NPUs doing 2d chess comms (Manhattan Distance or L1 Norm) (Re: Tablet and phone UBS-C remote debugging) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-01 14:12 +0200
        NACK retransmission might double Manhattan Distance (Re: NPUs doing 2d chess comms) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-01 14:24 +0200
          I am using WebGPU, and not WebGL (Re: NACK retransmission might double Manhattan Distance) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-02 00:47 +0200
            Texture inside my compute shader makes no sense (Re: I am using WebGPU, and not WebGL) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-02 02:40 +0200
              Prolog inferencing and not canvasing fancy stuff (Re: Texture inside my compute shader makes no sense) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-02 02:42 +0200
      Chris M. Thomasson can ask 100 more questions (Was: Tablet and phone UBS-C remote debugging) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-02 02:46 +0200
        npm install webgpu [Google Dawn] (Re: Chris M. Thomasson can ask 100 more questions) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-02 03:03 +0200

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