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Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #234446
| From | John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | alt.folklore.computers |
| Subject | Re: emulation, virtualization, Self-hosting and the 6502 |
| Date | 2026-03-30 16:39 +0000 |
| Organization | Taughannock Networks |
| Message-ID | <10qe90l$kv9$2@gal.iecc.com> (permalink) |
| References | <10qcitr$22aag$1@dont-email.me> <10qe0je$aq3$1@reader2.panix.com> <10qe1n9$2han9$1@dont-email.me> |
According to Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com>:
>The difference here is clear. My question is, what's the difference
>between emulation and simulation? Is there a difference, even if only in
>connotation. I'm never quite clear on whether to call something an
>emulator or a simulator.
The usual rule of thumb is that emulation involves hardware or microcode support,
simulation is just software.
Virtualization is something else, where the architecture of the internal system
is the same as the external system so you can run the same operating system in
a virtual machine you can on the hardware, give or take very small tweaks.
As far as I can tell, it was an accident that the architcture of S/360 made it
possible to build a virtual machine system. A program in user mode ("problem
state") cannot see or change any of the system state, and all attempts to do
so trap so they can be simulated. The only exception I can think of is the
realtime clock, which they fudged. It also helped that the I/O was all done
by channels so there were relatively few I/O events to simulate, not like
a PDP-10 which took an interrupt on each character from a TTY or each data
word from a DECtape.
I don't think you could have built a virtual machine OS on a PDP-10, because there
was too much of the system state visible to user programs.
--
Regards,
John Levine, johnl@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly
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Self-hosting and the 6502 Lev <thresh3@fastmail.com> - 2026-03-30 01:16 +0000
Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-30 06:12 +0000
Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-30 07:07 +0000
Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-30 08:13 +0000
Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-30 13:11 +0000
Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-03-30 14:25 +0000
Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-30 07:40 -0700
Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2026-03-30 17:02 +0000
Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-03-31 21:35 +0000
Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2026-03-31 22:31 +0000
Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-04-01 10:44 +0000
Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2026-04-01 10:47 +0000
Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-04-01 13:57 +0000
Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-03-31 21:34 +0000
Re: PC/IX, was Self-hosting and the 6502 John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-04-01 02:01 +0000
Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 "Kurt Weiske" <kurt.weiske@realitycheckbbs.org.remove-a96-this> - 2026-04-02 07:35 -0700
Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 jayjwa <jayjwa@atr2.ath.cx.invalid> - 2026-04-01 18:14 -0400
Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-04-01 22:56 +0000
Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2026-04-01 21:44 -0400
Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-04-01 21:35 -0700
Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-30 15:25 +0100
Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-30 07:42 -0700
Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> - 2026-04-01 11:43 +0000
Self-hosting and the PDP-10 [was Re: Self-hosting and the 6502] Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2026-04-01 15:41 -0400
Re: Self-hosting and the PDP-10 [was Re: Self-hosting and the 6502] cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-04-01 22:16 +0000
Re: Self-hosting and the PDP-10 [was Re: Self-hosting and the 6502] Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2026-04-01 21:51 -0400
Re: Self-hosting and the PDP-10 [was Re: Self-hosting and the 6502] Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-04-01 21:37 -0700
Re: Self-hosting and the PDP-10 [was Re: Self-hosting and the 6502] cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-04-02 10:50 +0000
Re: Self-hosting and the PDP-10 [was Re: Self-hosting and the 6502] Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2026-04-02 15:18 -0400
Re: Self-hosting and the PDP-10 [was Re: Self-hosting and the 6502] cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-04-03 13:13 +0000
Re: Self-hosting and the PDP-10 [was Re: Self-hosting and the 6502] cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-04-02 10:58 +0000
Re: Self-hosting and the PDP-10 [was Re: Self-hosting and the 6502] Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-04-02 07:32 -0700
Re: Self-hosting and the PDP-10 [was Re: Self-hosting and the 6502] cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-04-02 18:23 +0000
Re: virtualization, Self-hosting and the 6502 John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-03-30 16:28 +0000
Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Bill Findlay <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2026-03-30 17:59 +0100
Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-30 21:24 +0000
Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-03-30 14:16 +0000
Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-30 07:35 -0700
Re: emulation, virtualization, Self-hosting and the 6502 John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-03-30 16:39 +0000
Re: emulation, virtualization, Self-hosting and the 6502 ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2026-03-30 17:20 +0000
Re: emulation, virtualization, Self-hosting and the 6502 cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-03-31 23:39 +0000
Re: emulation, virtualization, Self-hosting and the 6502 scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-04-02 14:57 +0000
Re: emulation, virtualization, Self-hosting and the 6502 rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-04-02 18:04 +0000
Re: emulation, virtualization, Self-hosting and the 6502 scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-04-02 18:45 +0000
Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2026-03-30 18:03 +0100
Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-30 21:23 +0000
Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-03-31 23:05 +0000
Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-30 07:57 -0700
Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-03-30 22:19 +0000
Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-31 00:18 +0100
Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-03-31 22:04 +0000
Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2026-03-30 17:07 +0000
Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-03-31 03:34 +0000
Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-31 03:54 +0000
Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-03-31 05:01 +0000
Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Lev <thresh3@fastmail.com> - 2026-03-31 05:26 +0000
Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-31 07:48 -0700
Re: machine simulation, Self-hosting and the 6502 John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-03-31 18:06 +0000
Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-31 15:03 +0000
Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Bill Findlay <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2026-03-31 18:23 +0100
Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-31 13:04 -0700
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