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Groups > alt.folklore.computers > #234585

Re: Self-hosting and the PDP-10 [was Re: Self-hosting and the 6502]

From cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross)
Newsgroups alt.folklore.computers
Subject Re: Self-hosting and the PDP-10 [was Re: Self-hosting and the 6502]
Date 2026-04-02 18:23 +0000
Organization PANIX Public Access Internet and UNIX, NYC
Message-ID <10qmc6e$hdv$1@reader2.panix.com> (permalink)
References <10qdbas$2991c$1@dont-email.me> <mdd341e86z6.fsf@panix5.panix.com> <10qli5a$in4$3@reader2.panix.com> <10qlumn$15ji5$2@dont-email.me>

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In article <10qlumn$15ji5$2@dont-email.me>,
Peter Flass  <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> wrote:
>On 4/2/26 03:58, Dan Cross wrote:
>> In article <mdd341e86z6.fsf@panix5.panix.com>,
>> Rich Alderson  <news@alderson.users.panix.com> wrote:
>>> cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) writes:
>>>
>>>> In article <mddv7eampsr.fsf_-_@panix5.panix.com>,
>>>> Rich Alderson  <news@alderson.users.panix.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> When XKL was developing their first product, code named "ToaD" = "10 on a desk",
>>>>> the primary work was done on a DECSYSTEM-2065 running TOPS-20 v6.1 (which I
>>>>> upgraded to v7.0 when I got there a couple of years later).
>>>
>>>>> Because the Toad was an extended clone of the KL-10 processor, featuring full
>>>>> 30 bit addressing, changes needed to be made to TOPS-20 to support the memory
>>>>> model in its full glory.
>>>
>>>> Rich, I think I've asked this before, but can't recall the answer.  Is that
>>>> monitor available publicly, outside of the XKL Darkstar or other hardware?
>>>> 30-bit addressing would be a nice extension over the monitor in the Panda
>>>> distribution.
>>>
>>> The XKL monitor is a commercial product, available only with the purchase of
>>> a compatible hardware system.
>> 
>> That's unfortunate.  I was hoping that XKL would see just that
>> component as a thing that they did not need to keep proprietary.
>
>It's unlikely that anyone would steal it, given the current dearth of 
>PDP-10 hardware.

It's unlikely that the monitor itself is of much commercial
interest.  I guess the questions are whether any of their
networking specific IP is wrapped up in the monitor, and whether
it's worth their while to do the work of dropping their monitor
sources onto the net somewhere.  And of course whether they'd
want to do it at all; kinda sounds like maybe they don't (or are
just too focused on other, higher priority things to be
bothered.  I can sympathize with that).

>>> The Panda distribution is of course intended for a KL-10 compatible processor
>>> (and was originally targeted at DEC hardware rather than simulator programs),
>>> so it of course does not have the expanded data structures to allow a full
>>> gigaword of memory.  Extending the monitor is left as an exercise for the reader.
>> 
>> Yet another project for our collectively copious spare time.
>
>Not that I would work on it, but are at least the architecture specs for 
>the TOAD available? Did XKL patent their ideas?

Good question.  I don't know if they could reasonably patent
that, but IANAL.

	- Dan C.

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Thread

Self-hosting and the 6502 Lev <thresh3@fastmail.com> - 2026-03-30 01:16 +0000
  Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-30 06:12 +0000
    Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-30 07:07 +0000
      Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-30 08:13 +0000
        Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 thresh3@fastmail.com (Lev) - 2026-03-30 13:11 +0000
          Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-03-30 14:25 +0000
            Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-30 07:40 -0700
              Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2026-03-30 17:02 +0000
                Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-03-31 21:35 +0000
                Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2026-03-31 22:31 +0000
                Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-04-01 10:44 +0000
                Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2026-04-01 10:47 +0000
                Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-04-01 13:57 +0000
              Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-03-31 21:34 +0000
                Re: PC/IX, was Self-hosting and the 6502 John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-04-01 02:01 +0000
              Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 "Kurt Weiske" <kurt.weiske@realitycheckbbs.org.remove-a96-this> - 2026-04-02 07:35 -0700
            Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 jayjwa <jayjwa@atr2.ath.cx.invalid> - 2026-04-01 18:14 -0400
              Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-04-01 22:56 +0000
                Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2026-04-01 21:44 -0400
                Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-04-01 21:35 -0700
          Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-30 15:25 +0100
            Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-30 07:42 -0700
          Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Gordon Henderson <gordon+usenet@drogon.net> - 2026-04-01 11:43 +0000
            Self-hosting and the PDP-10 [was Re: Self-hosting and the 6502] Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2026-04-01 15:41 -0400
              Re: Self-hosting and the PDP-10 [was Re: Self-hosting and the 6502] cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-04-01 22:16 +0000
                Re: Self-hosting and the PDP-10 [was Re: Self-hosting and the 6502] Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2026-04-01 21:51 -0400
                Re: Self-hosting and the PDP-10 [was Re: Self-hosting and the 6502] Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-04-01 21:37 -0700
                Re: Self-hosting and the PDP-10 [was Re: Self-hosting and the 6502] cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-04-02 10:50 +0000
                Re: Self-hosting and the PDP-10 [was Re: Self-hosting and the 6502] Rich Alderson <news@alderson.users.panix.com> - 2026-04-02 15:18 -0400
                Re: Self-hosting and the PDP-10 [was Re: Self-hosting and the 6502] cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-04-03 13:13 +0000
                Re: Self-hosting and the PDP-10 [was Re: Self-hosting and the 6502] cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-04-02 10:58 +0000
                Re: Self-hosting and the PDP-10 [was Re: Self-hosting and the 6502] Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-04-02 07:32 -0700
                Re: Self-hosting and the PDP-10 [was Re: Self-hosting and the 6502] cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-04-02 18:23 +0000
      Re: virtualization, Self-hosting and the 6502 John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-03-30 16:28 +0000
    Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Bill Findlay <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2026-03-30 17:59 +0100
      Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-30 21:24 +0000
  Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-03-30 14:16 +0000
    Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-30 07:35 -0700
      Re: emulation, virtualization, Self-hosting and the 6502 John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-03-30 16:39 +0000
        Re: emulation, virtualization, Self-hosting and the 6502 ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2026-03-30 17:20 +0000
          Re: emulation, virtualization, Self-hosting and the 6502 cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-03-31 23:39 +0000
            Re: emulation, virtualization, Self-hosting and the 6502 scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-04-02 14:57 +0000
              Re: emulation, virtualization, Self-hosting and the 6502 rbowman <bowman@montana.com> - 2026-04-02 18:04 +0000
                Re: emulation, virtualization, Self-hosting and the 6502 scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-04-02 18:45 +0000
      Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid> - 2026-03-30 18:03 +0100
      Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-30 21:23 +0000
      Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-03-31 23:05 +0000
    Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 John Ames <commodorejohn@gmail.com> - 2026-03-30 07:57 -0700
      Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-03-30 22:19 +0000
        Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Nuno Silva <nunojsilva@invalid.invalid> - 2026-03-31 00:18 +0100
          Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net (Dan Cross) - 2026-03-31 22:04 +0000
    Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Bob Eager <news0009@eager.cx> - 2026-03-30 17:07 +0000
  Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-03-31 03:34 +0000
    Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Lawrence D’Oliveiro <ldo@nz.invalid> - 2026-03-31 03:54 +0000
      Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) - 2026-03-31 05:01 +0000
    Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Lev <thresh3@fastmail.com> - 2026-03-31 05:26 +0000
    Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-31 07:48 -0700
      Re: machine simulation, Self-hosting and the 6502 John Levine <johnl@taugh.com> - 2026-03-31 18:06 +0000
    Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 scott@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) - 2026-03-31 15:03 +0000
    Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Bill Findlay <findlaybill@blueyonder.co.uk> - 2026-03-31 18:23 +0100
      Re: Self-hosting and the 6502 Peter Flass <Peter@Iron-Spring.com> - 2026-03-31 13:04 -0700

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