Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > sci.physics > #722183 > unrolled thread

Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood

Back to article view | Back to sci.physics

This discussion starts older than the indexed window; earlier articles aren't shown. The article labeled Started by below is the oldest one visible, not the original post.

Contents

  Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2019-01-03 20:15 -0800
    Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood pnalsing@gmail.com - 2019-01-03 20:22 -0800
      Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood Claudius Denk <claudiusdenk@gmail.com> - 2019-01-04 09:40 -0800
        Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood pnalsing@gmail.com - 2019-01-04 10:08 -0800
          Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood Claudius Denk <claudiusdenk@gmail.com> - 2019-01-04 10:49 -0800
            Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood pnalsing@gmail.com - 2019-01-04 18:24 -0800
          Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2019-01-05 00:53 -0600
    Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood pnalsing@gmail.com - 2019-01-04 10:03 -0800
      Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2019-01-05 00:53 -0600
    Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood Volney <volney@volney.invalid> - 2019-01-05 09:42 -0500
      Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood pnalsing@gmail.com - 2019-01-05 15:14 -0800
        Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2019-01-05 21:00 -0800
          Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood pnalsing@gmail.com - 2019-01-05 21:53 -0800
      Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2019-01-05 20:18 -0800
        Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood pnalsing@gmail.com - 2019-01-05 21:52 -0800
          Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood Volney <volney@volney.invalid> - 2019-01-06 02:13 -0500
          Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 12:11 -0800
            Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood pnalsing@gmail.com - 2019-01-06 13:58 -0800
              Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 22:16 +0000
                Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood pnalsing@gmail.com - 2019-01-06 14:31 -0800
                Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 16:26 -0800
                  Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood pnalsing@gmail.com - 2019-01-06 17:01 -0800
                    Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood Claudius Denk <claudiusdenk@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 18:50 -0800
              Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 15:29 -0800
                Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2019-01-07 00:11 +0000
        Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood Volney <volney@volney.invalid> - 2019-01-06 02:09 -0500
          Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 11:47 -0800
            Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood Volney <volney@volney.invalid> - 2019-01-07 01:34 -0500
              Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood pnalsing@gmail.com - 2019-01-06 23:10 -0800
                Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2019-01-07 09:42 -0600
              Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood Claudius Denk <claudiusdenk@gmail.com> - 2019-01-08 09:19 -0800
          Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 19:10 -0800
            Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood pnalsing@gmail.com - 2019-01-06 19:42 -0800
            Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood Volney <volney@volney.invalid> - 2019-01-07 01:48 -0500
              Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 22:58 -0800
              Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2019-01-07 09:44 -0600
              Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2019-01-07 08:01 -0800
                Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood Volney <volney@volney.invalid> - 2019-01-08 00:30 -0500
                  Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood pnalsing@gmail.com - 2019-01-07 22:22 -0800
                  Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2019-01-08 09:35 -0600
                  Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood Claudius Denk <claudiusdenk@gmail.com> - 2019-01-08 09:27 -0800
                    Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood Volney <volney@volney.invalid> - 2019-01-08 13:00 -0500
                      Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood Claudius Denk <claudiusdenk@gmail.com> - 2019-01-08 13:34 -0800
                        Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood Volney <volney@volney.invalid> - 2019-01-09 00:53 -0500
                          Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2019-01-09 10:08 -0800
                          Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood Claudius Denk <claudiusdenk@gmail.com> - 2019-01-09 11:46 -0800
                            Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood Volney <volney@volney.invalid> - 2019-01-09 20:11 -0500
                              Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2019-01-09 17:13 -0800
                                Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood pnalsing@gmail.com - 2019-01-09 20:23 -0800
                                  Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood Claudius Denk <claudiusdenk@gmail.com> - 2019-01-10 21:08 -0800
                                    Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2019-01-12 09:47 -0800
                                      Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood Volney <volney@volney.invalid> - 2019-01-12 13:02 -0500
                                        Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2019-01-12 10:07 -0800
                                          Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2019-01-12 18:21 +0000
                                            Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2019-01-13 02:40 -0600
                                      Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2019-01-12 18:46 -0800
                            Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2019-01-26 13:41 -0800
                              Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood Volney <volney@volney.invalid> - 2019-01-26 20:16 -0500
                                Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2019-01-27 07:49 -0800
                                  Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood Volney <volney@volney.invalid> - 2019-01-27 12:24 -0500
                                    Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2019-01-27 11:46 -0800
                              Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2019-01-27 12:16 -0800

Page 2 of 4 — ← Prev page 1 [2] 3 4  Next page →

#722449

>> How did he determine this? 
> 
> Why don't you read his 407 papers and find out for yourself? 

Because it’s his objective to: 

1. Get you to mine the papers for him 

If Pnal can't support his argument and he doesn't want to be called a liar again he should make a retraction.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#722469

On Sunday, January 6, 2019 at 4:27:00 PM UTC-8, James McGinn wrote:
> >> How did he determine this? 
> > 
> > Why don't you read his 407 papers and find out for yourself? 
> 
> Because it’s his objective to: 
> 
> 1. Get you to mine the papers for him 
> 
> If Pnal can't support his argument and he doesn't want to be called a liar again he should make a retraction.

Looks who's talking about someone who can't support his argument! Jim, you are the King of deflectors. I fully supported my argument by providing a published paper. YOU are the liar here who can't support his argument, and that's a fact.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#722486

I fully supported my argument by providing a published paper. 

No, you dropped a link to a paper you don't understand. 

Hell, even Sergio could do that. 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#722432

> > "Nearly all the water vapor in the atmosphere lies in the 
> > troposphere—the layer extending roughly 20 kilometers from Earth’s 
> > surface. Dimers make up less than one percent of this water vapor, 
  
> How did he determine this? 

Why don't you read his 407 papers and find out for yourself? 

You got nothing!!!

James McGinn / Solving Tornadoes

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#722443

James McGinn writes:

> You got nothing!!!

Thanks for admitting to us that you have been shown to be wrong.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#722329

On 1/5/2019 11:18 PM, James McGinn wrote:
> On Saturday, January 5, 2019 at 6:40:32 AM UTC-8, Volney wrote:
>> On 1/3/2019 11:15 PM, James McGinn puts the wrong sock on his hand and
>> agrees with himself:
>>> McGinn is right.  Dalton's Law is well understood.
>>>
>>> JMcG:
>>> Yes.  Of course
>>>
>>
>> Dalton's Law is quite well understood.
> 
> Yes. Dalton's *gas* law is well understood.  Moreover it's a very simple concept.  Attempts by Pnal and his fellow bozos to conflate it to fit their rhetoric notwithstanding.
> 
>> Since for all temperatures between 0 and 100C
> 
> I think it would be more concise to refer to all temperatures/pressures in which H2O is a liquid (as indicated in the H2O Phase diagram). I think this phraseology captures your meaning.
> 
> , liquid and gaseous water
>> coexist at a certain positive vapor pressure,
> 
> Sorry.  You got this wrong.  Vapor exerts a pressure because the nanodroplets it contains are, essentially, large molecules, and there is a lot of them.
> 
> Remember, water vapor is nanodroplets that are (somehow) suspended in the air. There is no gaseous H2O in earth's atmosphere. It's far too cold. Look at an H2O phase diagram.
> 
>   it essentially is
> 
> Essentially?

As in when you wrote "...because the nanodroplets it contains are, 
essentially, large molecules,..." ?

>> Dalton's Law states this
>> pressure can be added to the partial pressures of nitrogen, oxygen etc.
>> to get the total absolute pressure of the air.
> 
> Obviously.  Yes, of course, it can be added. And is.

So you agree that adding the partial pressure of H2O(g) to that of 
nitrogen and oxygen is correct? OK, good.
> 
>> Simple example: 78,000 pascals of nitrogen + 21,000 pascals of oxygen +
>> 1,000 pascals of other gases + 1,000 pascals of H2O(g) = 101,000 pascals
>> of air pressure. At 24C there can be up to 3,000 pascals of H2O(g)
>> according to the water phase diagram.
> 
> I'm not going to go over your numbers. But you still seem confused. Keep in mind that, for example, the "vapor" pressure of H2O and the pressure of H2O gas are vastly different.

So you have some sort of new definition of "vapor"? I am talking about 
H2O(g) here.


> Gaseous H2O produces a lot of pressure.

Not according to the H2O phase diagram, at least at lower temperatures.

>  Vapor produces a fraction of the pressure in comparison H2O gas.
> 
> Another big difference between H2O vapor and H2O gas is the fact that the H2O nanodroplets require an existing substrate to be suspended in.  Gaseous H2O does not.
> 
> So, the fact that the vapor has a pressure that can be accounted for using Dalton's law does not mean that vapor and gas are equivalent in all other respects.

I am not interested in whatever it is you call "vapor". All I am saying 
is that at, for example, 24C, the H2O phase diagram states that the 
stable phase of H2O is gas below 3,000 pascals. Dalton's Law states that 
the presence of other nonreacting gases (N2, O2) doesn't affect this, so 
at 24C the partial pressure of H2O(g) can be up to 3,000 pascals.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#722361

On Saturday, January 5, 2019 at 11:07:08 PM UTC-8, Volney wrote:

> >> Dalton's Law states this
> >> pressure can be added to the partial pressures of nitrogen, oxygen etc.
> >> to get the total absolute pressure of the air.
> > 
> > Obviously.  Yes, of course, it can be added. And is.
> 
> So you agree that adding the partial pressure of H2O(g) to that of 
> nitrogen and oxygen is correct? OK, good.

I'm happy that you're happy.

> >> Simple example: 78,000 pascals of nitrogen + 21,000 pascals of oxygen +
> >> 1,000 pascals of other gases + 1,000 pascals of H2O(g) = 101,000 pascals
> >> of air pressure. At 24C there can be up to 3,000 pascals of H2O(g)
> >> according to the water phase diagram.
> > 
> > I'm not going to go over your numbers. But you still seem confused. Keep in mind that, for example, the "vapor" pressure of H2O and the pressure of H2O gas are vastly different.
> 
> So you have some sort of new definition of "vapor"?

LOL.  It may be new to you but that is because you have no experience in this discipline.  

> I am talking about 
> H2O(g) here.

Then you need to be more careful to use concise, non ambiguous words.


> > Gaseous H2O produces a lot of pressure.
> 
> Not according to the H2O phase diagram, at least at lower temperatures.

Irrelevant.

> >  Vapor produces a fraction of the pressure in comparison H2O gas.
> > 
> > Another big difference between H2O vapor and H2O gas is the fact that the H2O nanodroplets require an existing substrate to be suspended in.  Gaseous H2O does not.
> > 
> > So, the fact that the vapor has a pressure that can be accounted for using Dalton's law does not mean that vapor and gas are equivalent in all other respects.
> 
> I am not interested in whatever it is you call "vapor".

It makes no difference what you interests are if you can't communicate clearly and concisely.

> All I am saying 
> is that at, for example, 24C, the H2O phase diagram states that the 
> stable phase of H2O is gas below 3,000 pascals.

Yes, this is true.

> Dalton's Law states that 
> the presence of other nonreacting gases (N2, O2) doesn't affect this,

Reference.

> so 
> at 24C the partial pressure of H2O(g) can be up to 3,000 pascals.

Wrong. You are still confused. Yes, if you isolate H2O in a sealed container and lower the pressure it will turn to gas (at 24C and 3,000 pascals). However, under normal pressure it will revert back to a liquid.  As a liquid it will still exert pressure, vapor pressure. Now, might it be true that these two pressures are the same. I don't know.  I suppose it is possible.  Nevertheless, this fact isn't reason to assume H2O magically turns to gas at ambient temps/pressures.

James McGinn

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#722507

On 1/6/2019 2:47 PM, James McGinn wrote:
> On Saturday, January 5, 2019 at 11:07:08 PM UTC-8, Volney wrote:
> 
>>>> Dalton's Law states this
>>>> pressure can be added to the partial pressures of nitrogen, oxygen etc.
>>>> to get the total absolute pressure of the air.
>>>
>>> Obviously.  Yes, of course, it can be added. And is.
>>
>> So you agree that adding the partial pressure of H2O(g) to that of
>> nitrogen and oxygen is correct? OK, good.
> 
> I'm happy that you're happy.
> 
>>>> Simple example: 78,000 pascals of nitrogen + 21,000 pascals of oxygen +
>>>> 1,000 pascals of other gases + 1,000 pascals of H2O(g) = 101,000 pascals
>>>> of air pressure. At 24C there can be up to 3,000 pascals of H2O(g)
>>>> according to the water phase diagram.
>>>
>>> I'm not going to go over your numbers. But you still seem confused. Keep in mind that, for example, the "vapor" pressure of H2O and the pressure of H2O gas are vastly different.
>>
>> So you have some sort of new definition of "vapor"?
> 
> LOL.  It may be new to you but that is because you have no experience in this discipline.
> 
>> I am talking about
>> H2O(g) here.
> 
> Then you need to be more careful to use concise, non ambiguous words.
> 
> 
>>> Gaseous H2O produces a lot of pressure.
>>
>> Not according to the H2O phase diagram, at least at lower temperatures.
> 
> Irrelevant.
> 
>>>   Vapor produces a fraction of the pressure in comparison H2O gas.
>>>
>>> Another big difference between H2O vapor and H2O gas is the fact that the H2O nanodroplets require an existing substrate to be suspended in.  Gaseous H2O does not.
>>>
>>> So, the fact that the vapor has a pressure that can be accounted for using Dalton's law does not mean that vapor and gas are equivalent in all other respects.
>>
>> I am not interested in whatever it is you call "vapor".
> 
> It makes no difference what you interests are if you can't communicate clearly and concisely.

The difference between "gas" and "vapor" (same as gas, but only below 
its critical temperature) is irrelevant in this discussion, since all we 
are discussing is water well below its critical temperature.
> 
>> All I am saying
>> is that at, for example, 24C, the H2O phase diagram states that the
>> stable phase of H2O is gas below 3,000 pascals.
> 
> Yes, this is true.
> 
>> Dalton's Law states that
>> the presence of other nonreacting gases (N2, O2) doesn't affect this,
> 
> Reference.

Umm, every single chemistry book in existence?
>
>> so
>> at 24C the partial pressure of H2O(g) can be up to 3,000 pascals.
> 
> Wrong. You are still confused. Yes, if you isolate H2O in a sealed container and lower the pressure it will turn to gas (at 24C and 3,000 pascals). However, under normal pressure it will revert back to a liquid.

Only if normal pressure was produced by compressing the water vapor. If 
done by adding dry air, the partial pressure of H2O(g) is still 3,000 
pascals.

>  As a liquid it will still exert pressure, vapor pressure. Now, might it be true that these two pressures are the same. I don't know.  I suppose it is possible.

Dalton's Law states they will be the same.

>  Nevertheless, this fact isn't reason to assume H2O magically turns to gas at ambient temps/pressures.

No magic involved, but any phase diagram for water will tell you it does.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#722510

On Sunday, January 6, 2019 at 10:32:27 PM UTC-8, Volney wrote:
> On 1/6/2019 2:47 PM, James McGinn wrote:
> > On Saturday, January 5, 2019 at 11:07:08 PM UTC-8, Volney wrote:
> > 
> >>>> Dalton's Law states this
> >>>> pressure can be added to the partial pressures of nitrogen, oxygen etc.
> >>>> to get the total absolute pressure of the air.
> >>>
> >>> Obviously.  Yes, of course, it can be added. And is.
> >>
> >> So you agree that adding the partial pressure of H2O(g) to that of
> >> nitrogen and oxygen is correct? OK, good.
> > 
> > I'm happy that you're happy.
> > 
> >>>> Simple example: 78,000 pascals of nitrogen + 21,000 pascals of oxygen +
> >>>> 1,000 pascals of other gases + 1,000 pascals of H2O(g) = 101,000 pascals
> >>>> of air pressure. At 24C there can be up to 3,000 pascals of H2O(g)
> >>>> according to the water phase diagram.
> >>>
> >>> I'm not going to go over your numbers. But you still seem confused. Keep in mind that, for example, the "vapor" pressure of H2O and the pressure of H2O gas are vastly different.
> >>
> >> So you have some sort of new definition of "vapor"?
> > 
> > LOL.  It may be new to you but that is because you have no experience in this discipline.
> > 
> >> I am talking about
> >> H2O(g) here.
> > 
> > Then you need to be more careful to use concise, non ambiguous words.
> > 
> > 
> >>> Gaseous H2O produces a lot of pressure.
> >>
> >> Not according to the H2O phase diagram, at least at lower temperatures.
> > 
> > Irrelevant.
> > 
> >>>   Vapor produces a fraction of the pressure in comparison H2O gas.
> >>>
> >>> Another big difference between H2O vapor and H2O gas is the fact that the H2O nanodroplets require an existing substrate to be suspended in.  Gaseous H2O does not.
> >>>
> >>> So, the fact that the vapor has a pressure that can be accounted for using Dalton's law does not mean that vapor and gas are equivalent in all other respects.
> >>
> >> I am not interested in whatever it is you call "vapor".
> > 
> > It makes no difference what you interests are if you can't communicate clearly and concisely.
> 
> The difference between "gas" and "vapor" (same as gas, but only below 
> its critical temperature) is irrelevant in this discussion, since all we 
> are discussing is water well below its critical temperature.
> > 
> >> All I am saying
> >> is that at, for example, 24C, the H2O phase diagram states that the
> >> stable phase of H2O is gas below 3,000 pascals.
> > 
> > Yes, this is true.
> > 
> >> Dalton's Law states that
> >> the presence of other nonreacting gases (N2, O2) doesn't affect this,
> > 
> > Reference.
> 
> Umm, every single chemistry book in existence?
> >
> >> so
> >> at 24C the partial pressure of H2O(g) can be up to 3,000 pascals.
> > 
> > Wrong. You are still confused. Yes, if you isolate H2O in a sealed container and lower the pressure it will turn to gas (at 24C and 3,000 pascals). However, under normal pressure it will revert back to a liquid.
> 
> Only if normal pressure was produced by compressing the water vapor. If 
> done by adding dry air, the partial pressure of H2O(g) is still 3,000 
> pascals.
> 
> >  As a liquid it will still exert pressure, vapor pressure. Now, might it be true that these two pressures are the same. I don't know.  I suppose it is possible.
> 
> Dalton's Law states they will be the same.
> 
> >  Nevertheless, this fact isn't reason to assume H2O magically turns to gas at ambient temps/pressures.
> 
> No magic involved, but any phase diagram for water will tell you it does.

Volney, you need to keep in mind that McGinn has no clue as to how to interpret a phase diagram. He says he does, but he is clueless. A dumbfuck, to be sure...

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#722516

On 1/7/2019 1:10 AM, pnalsing@gmail.com wrote:
> On Sunday, January 6, 2019 at 10:32:27 PM UTC-8, Volney wrote:
>> On 1/6/2019 2:47 PM, James McGinn wrote:
>>> On Saturday, January 5, 2019 at 11:07:08 PM UTC-8, Volney wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> Dalton's Law states this
>>>>>> pressure can be added to the partial pressures of nitrogen, oxygen etc.
>>>>>> to get the total absolute pressure of the air.
>>>>>
>>>>> Obviously.  Yes, of course, it can be added. And is.
>>>>
>>>> So you agree that adding the partial pressure of H2O(g) to that of
>>>> nitrogen and oxygen is correct? OK, good.
>>>
>>> I'm happy that you're happy.
>>>
>>>>>> Simple example: 78,000 pascals of nitrogen + 21,000 pascals of oxygen +
>>>>>> 1,000 pascals of other gases + 1,000 pascals of H2O(g) = 101,000 pascals
>>>>>> of air pressure. At 24C there can be up to 3,000 pascals of H2O(g)
>>>>>> according to the water phase diagram.
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not going to go over your numbers. But you still seem confused. Keep in mind that, for example, the "vapor" pressure of H2O and the pressure of H2O gas are vastly different.
>>>>
>>>> So you have some sort of new definition of "vapor"?
>>>
>>> LOL.  It may be new to you but that is because you have no experience in this discipline.
>>>
>>>> I am talking about
>>>> H2O(g) here.
>>>
>>> Then you need to be more careful to use concise, non ambiguous words.
>>>
>>>
>>>>> Gaseous H2O produces a lot of pressure.
>>>>
>>>> Not according to the H2O phase diagram, at least at lower temperatures.
>>>
>>> Irrelevant.
>>>
>>>>>   Vapor produces a fraction of the pressure in comparison H2O gas.
>>>>>
>>>>> Another big difference between H2O vapor and H2O gas is the fact that the H2O nanodroplets require an existing substrate to be suspended in.  Gaseous H2O does not.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, the fact that the vapor has a pressure that can be accounted for using Dalton's law does not mean that vapor and gas are equivalent in all other respects.
>>>>
>>>> I am not interested in whatever it is you call "vapor".
>>>
>>> It makes no difference what you interests are if you can't communicate clearly and concisely.
>>
>> The difference between "gas" and "vapor" (same as gas, but only below 
>> its critical temperature) is irrelevant in this discussion, since all we 
>> are discussing is water well below its critical temperature.
>>>
>>>> All I am saying
>>>> is that at, for example, 24C, the H2O phase diagram states that the
>>>> stable phase of H2O is gas below 3,000 pascals.
>>>
>>> Yes, this is true.
>>>
>>>> Dalton's Law states that
>>>> the presence of other nonreacting gases (N2, O2) doesn't affect this,
>>>
>>> Reference.
>>
>> Umm, every single chemistry book in existence?
>>>
>>>> so
>>>> at 24C the partial pressure of H2O(g) can be up to 3,000 pascals.
>>>
>>> Wrong. You are still confused. Yes, if you isolate H2O in a sealed container and lower the pressure it will turn to gas (at 24C and 3,000 pascals). However, under normal pressure it will revert back to a liquid.
>>
>> Only if normal pressure was produced by compressing the water vapor. If 
>> done by adding dry air, the partial pressure of H2O(g) is still 3,000 
>> pascals.
>>
>>>  As a liquid it will still exert pressure, vapor pressure. Now, might it be true that these two pressures are the same. I don't know.  I suppose it is possible.
>>
>> Dalton's Law states they will be the same.
>>
>>>  Nevertheless, this fact isn't reason to assume H2O magically turns to gas at ambient temps/pressures.
>>
>> No magic involved, but any phase diagram for water will tell you it does.
> 
> Volney, you need to keep in mind that McGinn has no clue as to how to interpret a phase diagram. He says he does, but he is clueless. A dumbfuck, to be sure...
> 

  think of talking to McGinn as talking to a small dog, perhaps a Shih
Tzu or Toy Poodle.   it knows nothing of science, nor the meaning of the
words used.  McGinn is called McFly for a reason.

Density, pressure, are not in his knowledge base, which consists only of
what he can look up on the internet, and understand, which is not much
at all.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#722687

On Sunday, January 6, 2019 at 10:32:27 PM UTC-8, Volney wrote:
> On 1/6/2019 2:47 PM, James McGinn wrote:
> > On Saturday, January 5, 2019 at 11:07:08 PM UTC-8, Volney wrote:
> > 
> >>>> Dalton's Law states this
> >>>> pressure can be added to the partial pressures of nitrogen, oxygen etc.
> >>>> to get the total absolute pressure of the air.
> >>>
> >>> Obviously.  Yes, of course, it can be added. And is.
> >>
> >> So you agree that adding the partial pressure of H2O(g) to that of
> >> nitrogen and oxygen is correct? OK, good.
> > 
> > I'm happy that you're happy.
> > 
> >>>> Simple example: 78,000 pascals of nitrogen + 21,000 pascals of oxygen +
> >>>> 1,000 pascals of other gases + 1,000 pascals of H2O(g) = 101,000 pascals
> >>>> of air pressure. At 24C there can be up to 3,000 pascals of H2O(g)
> >>>> according to the water phase diagram.
> >>>
> >>> I'm not going to go over your numbers. But you still seem confused. Keep in mind that, for example, the "vapor" pressure of H2O and the pressure of H2O gas are vastly different.
> >>
> >> So you have some sort of new definition of "vapor"?
> > 
> > LOL.  It may be new to you but that is because you have no experience in this discipline.
> > 
> >> I am talking about
> >> H2O(g) here.
> > 
> > Then you need to be more careful to use concise, non ambiguous words.
> > 
> > 
> >>> Gaseous H2O produces a lot of pressure.
> >>
> >> Not according to the H2O phase diagram, at least at lower temperatures.
> > 
> > Irrelevant.
> > 
> >>>   Vapor produces a fraction of the pressure in comparison H2O gas.
> >>>
> >>> Another big difference between H2O vapor and H2O gas is the fact that the H2O nanodroplets require an existing substrate to be suspended in.  Gaseous H2O does not.
> >>>
> >>> So, the fact that the vapor has a pressure that can be accounted for using Dalton's law does not mean that vapor and gas are equivalent in all other respects.
> >>
> >> I am not interested in whatever it is you call "vapor".
> > 
> > It makes no difference what you interests are if you can't communicate clearly and concisely.
> 
> The difference between "gas" and "vapor" (same as gas, but only below 
> its critical temperature) is irrelevant in this discussion, since all we 
> are discussing is water well below its critical temperature.
> > 
> >> All I am saying
> >> is that at, for example, 24C, the H2O phase diagram states that the
> >> stable phase of H2O is gas below 3,000 pascals.
> > 
> > Yes, this is true.
> > 
> >> Dalton's Law states that
> >> the presence of other nonreacting gases (N2, O2) doesn't affect this,
> > 
> > Reference.
> 
> Umm, every single chemistry book in existence?

Excellent! Then you should have no trouble locating one. And we only need one. Just one! 

So, don't give up.  Keep looking.  

> >> so
> >> at 24C the partial pressure of H2O(g) can be up to 3,000 pascals.
> > 
> > Wrong. You are still confused. Yes, if you isolate H2O in a sealed container and lower the pressure it will turn to gas (at 24C and 3,000 pascals). However, under normal pressure it will revert back to a liquid.
> 
> Only if normal pressure was produced by compressing the water vapor. If 
> done by adding dry air, the partial pressure of H2O(g) is still 3,000 
> pascals.

Really? And you believe this because of something Dalton said? Something you've been unable to locate? Where is it?  Show us.  Keep in mind that the internet doesn't provide us a link to your imagination.


> >  As a liquid it will still exert pressure, vapor pressure. Now, might it be true that these two pressures are the same. I don't know.  I suppose it is possible.
> 
> Dalton's Law states they will be the same.

Feel free to make a detailed argument to that effect.

> >  Nevertheless, this fact isn't reason to assume H2O magically turns to gas at ambient temps/pressures.
> 
> No magic involved, but any phase diagram for water will tell you it does.

Really?  Where?  Provide a reference please.

I eagerly await your response on this crucial issue.

CD

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#722490

JMcG:
So, the fact that the vapor has a pressure that can be accounted for using Dalton's law does not mean that vapor and gas are equivalent in all other respects. 

Volney:
I am not interested in whatever it is you call "vapor". All I am saying 
is that at, for example, 24C, the H2O phase diagram states that the 
stable phase of H2O is gas below 3,000 pascals. 

CD:
Yeah, so?

Volney:
Dalton's Law states that 
the presence of other nonreacting gases (N2, O2) doesn't affect this,

CD:
What is "this"?  And where does Dalton's law state that it doesn't effect "this."

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#722495

On Sunday, January 6, 2019 at 7:10:51 PM UTC-8, James McGinn wrote:

> JMcG:
> So, the fact that the vapor has a pressure that can be accounted for using Dalton's law does not mean that vapor and gas are equivalent in all other respects. 
> 
> Volney:
> I am not interested in whatever it is you call "vapor". All I am saying 
> is that at, for example, 24C, the H2O phase diagram states that the 
> stable phase of H2O is gas below 3,000 pascals. 
> 
> CD:
> Yeah, so?
> 
> Volney:
> Dalton's Law states that 
> the presence of other nonreacting gases (N2, O2) doesn't affect this,
> 
> CD:
> What is "this"?  And where does Dalton's law state that it doesn't effect "this."

Mr. Desperate, who doesn't even know the difference between 'effect' and 'affect', has once again dropped the unabridged (very heavy) version of the Oxford Dictionary on his pecker and does not understand why it hurts so much.

How can one guy (well, 2, if you include Denk) bo so very stupid? He is a laughingstock it total denial, and will soon return to 'the home'.

"In physics a vapor (American) or vapour (Rest of the World) is a substance in the gas phase at a temperature lower than its critical temperature"

When will ever learn?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#722508

On 1/6/2019 10:10 PM, James McGinn wrote:
> JMcG:
> So, the fact that the vapor has a pressure that can be accounted for using Dalton's law does not mean that vapor and gas are equivalent in all other respects.
> 
> Volney:
> I am not interested in whatever it is you call "vapor". All I am saying
> is that at, for example, 24C, the H2O phase diagram states that the
> stable phase of H2O is gas below 3,000 pascals.
> 
> CD:

Whoops! McGinn forgot which sock he had on halfway through his post!

> Yeah, so?

The difference in definitions (vapor == same as gas except only below 
the critical temperature) is not important to this discussion.

> 
> Volney:
> Dalton's Law states that
> the presence of other nonreacting gases (N2, O2) doesn't affect this,
> 
> CD:
> What is "this"?

"[at 24C] the stable phase of H2O is gas below 3,000 pascals."

>  And where does Dalton's law state that it doesn't effect "this."

That's the entire point of Dalton's Law! The presence of other gases 
does not affect the individual gas behavior.
> 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#722509

No worries. Just provide us a quote from Dalton. 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#722517

On 1/7/2019 12:48 AM, Volney wrote:
> On 1/6/2019 10:10 PM, James McGinn wrote:
>> JMcG:
>> So, the fact that the vapor has a pressure that can be accounted for
>> using Dalton's law does not mean that vapor and gas are equivalent in
>> all other respects.
>>
>> Volney:
>> I am not interested in whatever it is you call "vapor". All I am saying
>> is that at, for example, 24C, the H2O phase diagram states that the
>> stable phase of H2O is gas below 3,000 pascals.
>>
>> CD:
> 
> Whoops! McGinn forgot which sock he had on halfway through his post!
> 
>> Yeah, so?
> 
> The difference in definitions (vapor == same as gas except only below
> the critical temperature) is not important to this discussion.
> 
>>
>> Volney:
>> Dalton's Law states that
>> the presence of other nonreacting gases (N2, O2) doesn't affect this,
>>
>> CD:
>> What is "this"?
> 
> "[at 24C] the stable phase of H2O is gas below 3,000 pascals."
> 
>>  And where does Dalton's law state that it doesn't effect "this."
> 
> That's the entire point of Dalton's Law! The presence of other gases
> does not affect the individual gas behavior.
>>
> 

 think of talking to McGinn as talking to a small dog, perhaps a Shih
Tzu or Toy Poodle.   it knows nothing of science, nor the meaning of the
words used.     McGinn (et al) is called McFly for a reason.

Density, pressure, are not in his knowledge base, which consists only of
what he can look up on the internet and understand, which is not much
at all.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#722519

On Sunday, January 6, 2019 at 10:46:00 PM UTC-8, Volney wrote:

> > So, the fact that the vapor has a pressure that can be accounted for using Dalton's law does not mean that vapor and gas are equivalent in all other respects.
> > 
> > Volney:
> > I am not interested in whatever it is you call "vapor". All I am saying
> > is that at, for example, 24C, the H2O phase diagram states that the
> > stable phase of H2O is gas below 3,000 pascals.
> 
> > Yeah, so?
> 
> The difference in definitions (vapor == same as gas except only below 
> the critical temperature) is not important to this discussion.


Answer my question you evasive jackass.

> > Volney:
> > Dalton's Law states that
> > the presence of other nonreacting gases (N2, O2) doesn't affect this,
> > 
> > CD:
> > What is "this"?
> 
> "[at 24C] the stable phase of H2O is gas below 3,000 pascals."
> 
> >  And where does Dalton's law state that it doesn't effect "this."
> 
> That's the entire point of Dalton's Law! The presence of other gases 
> does not affect the individual gas behavior.

Answer the questions you evasive twit: 1) What is "this"? and 2) Where does Dalton's law state that it doesn't effect "this."

Checkmate.

That was easy.

James McGinn / Solving Tornadoes

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#722653

On 1/7/2019 11:01 AM, James McGinn wrote:
> On Sunday, January 6, 2019 at 10:46:00 PM UTC-8, Volney wrote:
> 
>>> So, the fact that the vapor has a pressure that can be accounted for using Dalton's law does not mean that vapor and gas are equivalent in all other respects.
>>>
>>> Volney:
>>> I am not interested in whatever it is you call "vapor". All I am saying
>>> is that at, for example, 24C, the H2O phase diagram states that the
>>> stable phase of H2O is gas below 3,000 pascals.
>>
>>> Yeah, so?
>>
>> The difference in definitions (vapor == same as gas except only below
>> the critical temperature) is not important to this discussion.
> 
> 
> Answer my question you evasive jackass.

I already did. Vapor is gas below the critical temperature.

> 
>>> Volney:
>>> Dalton's Law states that
>>> the presence of other nonreacting gases (N2, O2) doesn't affect this,
>>>
>>> CD:
>>> What is "this"?
>>
>> "[at 24C] the stable phase of H2O is gas below 3,000 pascals."
>>
>>>   And where does Dalton's law state that it doesn't effect "this."
>>
>> That's the entire point of Dalton's Law! The presence of other gases
>> does not affect the individual gas behavior.
> 
> Answer the questions you evasive twit: 1) What is "this"? and 2) Where does Dalton's law state that it doesn't effect "this."

You have some sort of reading comprehension problem.

"This" is the fact that at 24C the stable phase of H2O is gas below 
3,000 pascals pressure.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalton%27s_law
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vapor_pressure

That is as much as I am willing to spoonfeed you.

> Checkmate.
> 
> That was easy.

Yes, beating you was like taking candy from a baby.
> 
> James McGinn / Solving Tornadoes
> 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#722654

On Monday, January 7, 2019 at 9:28:20 PM UTC-8, Volney wrote:
> On 1/7/2019 11:01 AM, James McGinn wrote:
> > On Sunday, January 6, 2019 at 10:46:00 PM UTC-8, Volney wrote:
> > 
> >>> So, the fact that the vapor has a pressure that can be accounted for using Dalton's law does not mean that vapor and gas are equivalent in all other respects.
> >>>
> >>> Volney:
> >>> I am not interested in whatever it is you call "vapor". All I am saying
> >>> is that at, for example, 24C, the H2O phase diagram states that the
> >>> stable phase of H2O is gas below 3,000 pascals.
> >>
> >>> Yeah, so?
> >>
> >> The difference in definitions (vapor == same as gas except only below
> >> the critical temperature) is not important to this discussion.
> > 
> > 
> > Answer my question you evasive jackass.
> 
> I already did. Vapor is gas below the critical temperature.
> 
> > 
> >>> Volney:
> >>> Dalton's Law states that
> >>> the presence of other nonreacting gases (N2, O2) doesn't affect this,
> >>>
> >>> CD:
> >>> What is "this"?
> >>
> >> "[at 24C] the stable phase of H2O is gas below 3,000 pascals."
> >>
> >>>   And where does Dalton's law state that it doesn't effect "this."
> >>
> >> That's the entire point of Dalton's Law! The presence of other gases
> >> does not affect the individual gas behavior.
> > 
> > Answer the questions you evasive twit: 1) What is "this"? and 2) Where does Dalton's law state that it doesn't effect "this."
> 
> You have some sort of reading comprehension problem.
> 
> "This" is the fact that at 24C the stable phase of H2O is gas below 
> 3,000 pascals pressure.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalton%27s_law
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vapor_pressure
> 
> That is as much as I am willing to spoonfeed you.
> 
> > Checkmate.
> > 
> > That was easy.
> 
> Yes, beating you was like taking candy from a baby.
> > 
> > James McGinn / Solving Tornadoes
> >

 A very retarded baby...

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#722678

On 1/7/2019 11:30 PM, Volney wrote:
> On 1/7/2019 11:01 AM, James McGinn wrote:
>> On Sunday, January 6, 2019 at 10:46:00 PM UTC-8, Volney wrote:
>>
>>>> So, the fact that the vapor has a pressure that can be accounted for
>>>> using Dalton's law does not mean that vapor and gas are equivalent
>>>> in all other respects.
>>>>
>>>> Volney:
>>>> I am not interested in whatever it is you call "vapor". All I am saying
>>>> is that at, for example, 24C, the H2O phase diagram states that the
>>>> stable phase of H2O is gas below 3,000 pascals.
>>>
>>>> Yeah, so?
>>>
>>> The difference in definitions (vapor == same as gas except only below
>>> the critical temperature) is not important to this discussion.
>>
>>
>> Answer my question you evasive jackass.
> 
> I already did. Vapor is gas below the critical temperature.
> 
>>
>>>> Volney:
>>>> Dalton's Law states that
>>>> the presence of other nonreacting gases (N2, O2) doesn't affect this,
>>>>
>>>> CD:
>>>> What is "this"?
>>>
>>> "[at 24C] the stable phase of H2O is gas below 3,000 pascals."
>>>
>>>>   And where does Dalton's law state that it doesn't effect "this."
>>>
>>> That's the entire point of Dalton's Law! The presence of other gases
>>> does not affect the individual gas behavior.
>>
>> Answer the questions you evasive twit: 1) What is "this"? and 2) Where
>> does Dalton's law state that it doesn't effect "this."
> 
> You have some sort of reading comprehension problem.
> 
> "This" is the fact that at 24C the stable phase of H2O is gas below
> 3,000 pascals pressure.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalton%27s_law
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vapor_pressure
> 
> That is as much as I am willing to spoonfeed you.

so more Spoonfeeding James McGinn,  use a smaller spoon...

> 
>> Checkmate.
>>
>> That was easy.
> 
> Yes, beating you was like taking candy from a baby.
>>
>> James McGinn / Solving Tornadoes
>>
> 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

Page 2 of 4 — ← Prev page 1 [2] 3 4  Next page →

Back to top | Article view | sci.physics

csiph-web