Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood

From	Volney <volney@volney.invalid>
Newsgroups	sci.physics
Subject	Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood
Date	2019-01-06 02:09 -0500
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<q0s9eo$ik0$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
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On 1/5/2019 11:18 PM, James McGinn wrote:
> On Saturday, January 5, 2019 at 6:40:32 AM UTC-8, Volney wrote:
>> On 1/3/2019 11:15 PM, James McGinn puts the wrong sock on his hand and
>> agrees with himself:
>>> McGinn is right.  Dalton's Law is well understood.
>>>
>>> JMcG:
>>> Yes.  Of course
>>>
>>
>> Dalton's Law is quite well understood.
> 
> Yes. Dalton's *gas* law is well understood.  Moreover it's a very simple concept.  Attempts by Pnal and his fellow bozos to conflate it to fit their rhetoric notwithstanding.
> 
>> Since for all temperatures between 0 and 100C
> 
> I think it would be more concise to refer to all temperatures/pressures in which H2O is a liquid (as indicated in the H2O Phase diagram). I think this phraseology captures your meaning.
> 
> , liquid and gaseous water
>> coexist at a certain positive vapor pressure,
> 
> Sorry.  You got this wrong.  Vapor exerts a pressure because the nanodroplets it contains are, essentially, large molecules, and there is a lot of them.
> 
> Remember, water vapor is nanodroplets that are (somehow) suspended in the air. There is no gaseous H2O in earth's atmosphere. It's far too cold. Look at an H2O phase diagram.
> 
>   it essentially is
> 
> Essentially?

As in when you wrote "...because the nanodroplets it contains are, 
essentially, large molecules,..." ?

>> Dalton's Law states this
>> pressure can be added to the partial pressures of nitrogen, oxygen etc.
>> to get the total absolute pressure of the air.
> 
> Obviously.  Yes, of course, it can be added. And is.

So you agree that adding the partial pressure of H2O(g) to that of 
nitrogen and oxygen is correct? OK, good.
> 
>> Simple example: 78,000 pascals of nitrogen + 21,000 pascals of oxygen +
>> 1,000 pascals of other gases + 1,000 pascals of H2O(g) = 101,000 pascals
>> of air pressure. At 24C there can be up to 3,000 pascals of H2O(g)
>> according to the water phase diagram.
> 
> I'm not going to go over your numbers. But you still seem confused. Keep in mind that, for example, the "vapor" pressure of H2O and the pressure of H2O gas are vastly different.

So you have some sort of new definition of "vapor"? I am talking about 
H2O(g) here.


> Gaseous H2O produces a lot of pressure.

Not according to the H2O phase diagram, at least at lower temperatures.

>  Vapor produces a fraction of the pressure in comparison H2O gas.
> 
> Another big difference between H2O vapor and H2O gas is the fact that the H2O nanodroplets require an existing substrate to be suspended in.  Gaseous H2O does not.
> 
> So, the fact that the vapor has a pressure that can be accounted for using Dalton's law does not mean that vapor and gas are equivalent in all other respects.

I am not interested in whatever it is you call "vapor". All I am saying 
is that at, for example, 24C, the H2O phase diagram states that the 
stable phase of H2O is gas below 3,000 pascals. Dalton's Law states that 
the presence of other nonreacting gases (N2, O2) doesn't affect this, so 
at 24C the partial pressure of H2O(g) can be up to 3,000 pascals.

Thread

Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2019-01-03 20:15 -0800
  Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood pnalsing@gmail.com - 2019-01-03 20:22 -0800
    Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood Claudius Denk <claudiusdenk@gmail.com> - 2019-01-04 09:40 -0800
      Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood pnalsing@gmail.com - 2019-01-04 10:08 -0800
        Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood Claudius Denk <claudiusdenk@gmail.com> - 2019-01-04 10:49 -0800
          Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood pnalsing@gmail.com - 2019-01-04 18:24 -0800
        Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2019-01-05 00:53 -0600
  Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood pnalsing@gmail.com - 2019-01-04 10:03 -0800
    Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2019-01-05 00:53 -0600
  Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood Volney <volney@volney.invalid> - 2019-01-05 09:42 -0500
    Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood pnalsing@gmail.com - 2019-01-05 15:14 -0800
      Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2019-01-05 21:00 -0800
        Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood pnalsing@gmail.com - 2019-01-05 21:53 -0800
    Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2019-01-05 20:18 -0800
      Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood pnalsing@gmail.com - 2019-01-05 21:52 -0800
        Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood Volney <volney@volney.invalid> - 2019-01-06 02:13 -0500
        Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 12:11 -0800
          Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood pnalsing@gmail.com - 2019-01-06 13:58 -0800
            Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 22:16 +0000
              Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood pnalsing@gmail.com - 2019-01-06 14:31 -0800
              Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 16:26 -0800
                Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood pnalsing@gmail.com - 2019-01-06 17:01 -0800
                Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood Claudius Denk <claudiusdenk@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 18:50 -0800
            Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 15:29 -0800
              Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2019-01-07 00:11 +0000
      Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood Volney <volney@volney.invalid> - 2019-01-06 02:09 -0500
        Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 11:47 -0800
          Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood Volney <volney@volney.invalid> - 2019-01-07 01:34 -0500
            Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood pnalsing@gmail.com - 2019-01-06 23:10 -0800
              Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2019-01-07 09:42 -0600
            Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood Claudius Denk <claudiusdenk@gmail.com> - 2019-01-08 09:19 -0800
        Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 19:10 -0800
          Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood pnalsing@gmail.com - 2019-01-06 19:42 -0800
          Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood Volney <volney@volney.invalid> - 2019-01-07 01:48 -0500
            Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2019-01-06 22:58 -0800
            Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2019-01-07 09:44 -0600
            Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2019-01-07 08:01 -0800
              Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood Volney <volney@volney.invalid> - 2019-01-08 00:30 -0500
                Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood pnalsing@gmail.com - 2019-01-07 22:22 -0800
                Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2019-01-08 09:35 -0600
                Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood Claudius Denk <claudiusdenk@gmail.com> - 2019-01-08 09:27 -0800
                Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood Volney <volney@volney.invalid> - 2019-01-08 13:00 -0500
                Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood Claudius Denk <claudiusdenk@gmail.com> - 2019-01-08 13:34 -0800
                Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood Volney <volney@volney.invalid> - 2019-01-09 00:53 -0500
                Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2019-01-09 10:08 -0800
                Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood Claudius Denk <claudiusdenk@gmail.com> - 2019-01-09 11:46 -0800
                Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood Volney <volney@volney.invalid> - 2019-01-09 20:11 -0500
                Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2019-01-09 17:13 -0800
                Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood pnalsing@gmail.com - 2019-01-09 20:23 -0800
                Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood Claudius Denk <claudiusdenk@gmail.com> - 2019-01-10 21:08 -0800
                Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2019-01-12 09:47 -0800
                Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood Volney <volney@volney.invalid> - 2019-01-12 13:02 -0500
                Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2019-01-12 10:07 -0800
                Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2019-01-12 18:21 +0000
                Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2019-01-13 02:40 -0600
                Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2019-01-12 18:46 -0800
                Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2019-01-26 13:41 -0800
                Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood Volney <volney@volney.invalid> - 2019-01-26 20:16 -0500
                Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2019-01-27 07:49 -0800
                Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood Volney <volney@volney.invalid> - 2019-01-27 12:24 -0500
                Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood James McGinn <jimmcginn9@gmail.com> - 2019-01-27 11:46 -0800
                Re: Dalton's Law is Well Understood Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2019-01-27 12:16 -0800

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