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Groups > sci.physics > #567488 > unrolled thread

Non-composites never seen before

Started byjohn <johnsefton288@gmail.com>
First post2016-04-02 09:27 -0700
Last post2016-04-04 11:58 -0500
Articles 20 on this page of 77 — 9 participants

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Contents

  Non-composites never seen before john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-02 09:27 -0700
    Re: Non-composites never seen before benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-04-02 13:33 -0400
    Re: Non-composites never seen before Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 10:19 -0500
      Re: Non-composites never seen before john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 09:20 -0700
        Re: Non-composites never seen before Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 11:54 -0500
        Re: Non-composites never seen before moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-04-04 16:58 +0000
          Re: Non-composites never seen before Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 13:52 -0500
            Re: Non-composites never seen before benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 21:33 -0400
              Re: Non-composites never seen before Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 06:54 -0500
                Re: Non-composites never seen before HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 05:26 -0700
                  Re: Non-composites never seen before benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 09:51 -0400
                Re: Non-composites never seen before john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 05:30 -0700
                  Re: Non-composites never seen before john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 05:55 -0700
                    Re: Non-composites never seen before Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 06:06 -0700
                      Re: Non-composites never seen before benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 09:53 -0400
                      Re: Non-composites never seen before john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 09:16 -0700
                        Re: Non-composites never seen before john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 10:28 -0700
                          Re: Non-composites never seen before Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 17:09 -0500
                        Re: Non-composites never seen before Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 10:28 -0700
                          Re: Non-composites never seen before HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 10:51 -0700
                            Re: Non-composites never seen before Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 11:23 -0700
                              Re: Non-composites never seen before benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 15:16 -0400
                            Re: Non-composites never seen before benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 15:06 -0400
                        Re: Non-composites never seen before benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 15:20 -0400
                          Re: Non-composites never seen before Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 15:56 -0500
                        Re: Non-composites never seen before Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 17:09 -0500
                  Re: Non-composites never seen before benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 09:56 -0400
                    Re: Non-composites never seen before Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 17:10 -0500
                      Re: Non-composites never seen before john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 15:36 -0700
                        Re: Non-composites never seen before john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 16:09 -0700
                          Re: Non-composites never seen before moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-04-06 02:17 +0000
                          Re: Non-composites never seen before Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 07:15 -0500
                            Re: Non-composites never seen before noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 22:08 -0700
                        Re: Non-composites never seen before Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 07:13 -0500
                          Re: Non-composites never seen before john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 05:37 -0700
                            Re: Non-composites never seen before HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 05:48 -0700
                            Re: Non-composites never seen before Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 07:52 -0500
                              Re: Non-composites never seen before john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 06:03 -0700
                                Re: Non-composites never seen before john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 06:17 -0700
                                  Re: Non-composites never seen before HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 06:21 -0700
                                  Re: Non-composites never seen before Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 08:35 -0500
                                Re: Non-composites never seen before Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 08:32 -0500
                                Re: Non-composites never seen before john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 06:38 -0700
                                  Re: Non-composites never seen before Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 09:10 -0500
                                  Re: Non-composites never seen before HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 07:14 -0700
                                    Re: Non-composites never seen before HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 08:20 -0700
                                      Re: Non-composites never seen before john <johnsefton288@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 08:53 -0700
                                        Re: Non-composites never seen before Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 11:00 -0500
                                          Re: Non-composites never seen before Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 13:19 -0500
                                        Re: Non-composites never seen before "Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2016-04-09 22:40 -0700
                                    Re: Non-composites never seen before moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-04-06 18:55 +0000
                                      Re: Non-composites never seen before HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 12:20 -0700
                                        Re: Non-composites never seen before benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 16:08 -0400
                              Re: Non-composites never seen before benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 10:28 -0400
                                Re: Non-composites never seen before Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 09:47 -0500
                      Re: Non-composites never seen before benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 22:14 -0400
                        Re: Non-composites never seen before Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 07:27 -0500
                          Re: Non-composites never seen before HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 05:47 -0700
                          Re: Non-composites never seen before benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 10:20 -0400
                            Re: Non-composites never seen before Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 09:45 -0500
                              Re: Non-composites never seen before benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 11:10 -0400
                                Re: Non-composites never seen before Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 10:56 -0500
                                  Re: Non-composites never seen before benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 15:17 -0400
                  Re: Non-composites never seen before Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 17:10 -0500
                Re: Non-composites never seen before benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 09:42 -0400
                  Re: Non-composites never seen before Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 17:10 -0500
                    Re: Non-composites never seen before benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-04-05 22:11 -0400
                      Re: Non-composites never seen before Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 07:25 -0500
                        Re: Non-composites never seen before benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 10:11 -0400
                          Re: Non-composites never seen before Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 09:41 -0500
                            Re: Non-composites never seen before benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 11:07 -0400
                              Re: Non-composites never seen before Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 10:55 -0500
                                Re: Non-composites never seen before benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-04-06 15:15 -0400
                                  Re: Non-composites never seen before Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 13:46 -0500
                                    Re: Non-composites never seen before benj <none@gmail.com> - 2016-04-08 23:24 -0400
        Re: Non-composites never seen before Double-A <double-a3@hush.com> - 2016-04-04 12:11 -0700
    Re: Non-composites never seen before Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-04-04 11:58 -0500

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#568253

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2016-04-06 08:35 -0500
Message-ID<ne33aq$gms$2@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#568250
On 4/6/2016 8:17 AM, john wrote:
> Odd
> Which direction is "outward"?
>

John, you tell ten people to stand close together in the middle of a 
football pitch. Now you tell them to run away from each other. Which 
direction are they going to run?

-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#568252

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2016-04-06 08:32 -0500
Message-ID<ne334m$gms$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#568248
On 4/6/2016 8:03 AM, john wrote:
> Which direction is "outward", Odd?
>

Does it occur to you that expansion doesn't have a direction like 
eastward or upward?

Take the dot on the expanding plate (3475,12377), with you John sitting 
right there. From your perspective, the dot at (3476,12377) is moving to 
the right. The dot at (3474,12377) is moving to the left. The dot at 
(3475,12376) is moving downward. (x axis is left-right, y-axis is 
up-down.) So which direction is the expansion, John?

Now, there's a guy Ben that's sitting at (3476,12377). From Ben's 
perspective, the dot at (3475,12377) -- the point you're sitting on -- 
is moving to the left. The dot at (3477,12377) is moving to the right. 
The dot at (3476,12376) is moving downward. Again, everything is moving 
outward. Naturally, you John and Ben are receding from each other.

You might ask, who is right? You who says (3475,12377) is still and 
(3476,12377) is moving to the right? Or Ben who says (3476,12377) is 
still and (3475,12377) is moving to the left? The answer is yes. Both 
are right. It's just a matter of where you're sitting. But BOTH you and 
Ben agree that the plate is expanding uniformly.

-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#568254

Fromjohn <johnsefton288@gmail.com>
Date2016-04-06 06:38 -0700
Message-ID<e9ce3fab-1221-4097-838b-7dd9bf6c2476@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#568248
Never mind, Odd.
Let's talk about rates of expansion:
(0,1) went to (0,2) in one unit time 
AWAY from (0,0). Right? Expansion equal 1.
(1,0) went to (2,0) in one unit time
AWAY from (0,0). Right? Expansion equal 1.

But the points now at (0,2) and (2,0) went
root 2 AWAY from each other?
Right? Expansion equal 1.4???
What's going on, Odd?

Don't all three points have to retreat
equally?

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#568259

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2016-04-06 09:10 -0500
Message-ID<ne35dh$ksi$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#568254
On 4/6/2016 8:38 AM, john wrote:
> Never mind, Odd.
> Let's talk about rates of expansion:
> (0,1) went to (0,2) in one unit time
> AWAY from (0,0).
> Right? Expansion equal 1.
> (1,0) went to (2,0) in one unit time
> AWAY from (0,0). Right? Expansion equal 1.
>
> But the points now at (0,2) and (2,0) went
> root 2 AWAY from each other?
> Right? Expansion equal 1.4???
> What's going on, Odd?

Those points aren't adjacent, are they?
Remember that uniform expansion means that ADJACENT points retreat from 
each other at the same rate.

It does NOT mean that (0,1) and (34, 987) retreat from each other by one 
in unit time.

Remember how I quoted the expansion rate I gave you in the 1-D, 2-D, 3-D 
examples? It was 1 inch per foot per day. That means that points 
separated by one foot would be further apart by 1 inch after a day. It 
also means that points separated by three feet would be further apart by 
3 inches after a day. That's what uniform expansion rate means, not that 
ANY two points increase by one inch in a day, but that adjacent points do.

>
> Don't all three points have to retreat
> equally?
>


-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#568261

FromHVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com>
Date2016-04-06 07:14 -0700
Message-ID<fe12c22c-0962-44e0-bbe4-1a8c405ea133@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#568254
9:38 AMjohn
Never mind, Odd. 
Let's talk about rates of expansion: 
(0,1) went to (0,2) in one unit time 
AWAY from (0,0). Right? Expansion equal 1. 
(1,0) went to (2,0) in one unit time 
AWAY from (0,0). Right? Expansion equal 1. 

But the points now at (0,2) and (2,0) went 
root 2 AWAY from each other? 
Right? Expansion equal 1.4??? 
What's going on, Odd? 

Don't all three points have to retreat 
equally? 
------------

John. Serious question. Have you ever received treatment for ADD?

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#568293

FromHVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com>
Date2016-04-06 08:20 -0700
Message-ID<d2bba436-11a0-4af2-bdd9-85d9392693a9@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#568261
BJ quacked
> When did I say "without data"? You live in as big a fantasy world as 
> HVAC. But at least he admits it.
----------

True, BJ. When it comes to you and your childish beliefs in ESP, etc. I must defer to your 'intellect'.

Truly YOU are the most well schooled in kook subjects. 

Congratulations!

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#568298

Fromjohn <johnsefton288@gmail.com>
Date2016-04-06 08:53 -0700
Message-ID<081aa75d-b13a-45d4-a4e8-91c2dbf56df6@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#568293
Odd
Just with 2D, your "expanding equally"
Universe fails.
Take the 4 points 0,0  and 1,0. and 0,1. and 1,1.
A box, one unit per side.
Expand it "equally " to twice its dimensions.
Now the points are (0,0),(0,2),(2,2), (2,0).

IN THE SAME TIME THAT
(0,1) moved away from (0,0)  to (0,2),
which is ONE UNIT,
(1,1) moved away from (0,0) to (2,2)
which is  ONE POINT FOUR UNITS.

Depending on which "near neighbour"
you look at, you get a
DIFFERENT EXPANSION 

What's going on, Odd?

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#568301

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2016-04-06 11:00 -0500
Message-ID<ne3brc$11uu$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#568298
On 4/6/2016 10:53 AM, john wrote:
> Odd
> Just with 2D, your "expanding equally"
> Universe fails.
> Take the 4 points 0,0  and 1,0. and 0,1. and 1,1.
> A box, one unit per side.
> Expand it "equally " to twice its dimensions.
> Now the points are (0,0),(0,2),(2,2), (2,0).
>
> IN THE SAME TIME THAT
> (0,1) moved away from (0,0)  to (0,2),
> which is ONE UNIT,
> (1,1) moved away from (0,0) to (2,2)
> which is  ONE POINT FOUR UNITS.

(1,1) is NOT ADJACENT to (0,0). Please reread my post where I defined 
for you in plain English what "adjacent" means.
(1,0) is adjacent to (0,0)
(0,1) is adjacent to (0,0)
(1,1) is not adjacent to (0,0)
(3,2) is adjacent to (2,2) and to (3,3). It is not adjacent to (4,3) or 
to (3,4).

>
> Depending on which "near neighbour"
> you look at, you get a
> DIFFERENT EXPANSION
>
> What's going on, Odd?
>


-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#568344

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2016-04-06 13:19 -0500
Message-ID<ne3k0b$1hk1$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#568301
On 4/6/2016 11:00 AM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> On 4/6/2016 10:53 AM, john wrote:
>> Odd
>> Just with 2D, your "expanding equally"
>> Universe fails.
>> Take the 4 points 0,0  and 1,0. and 0,1. and 1,1.
>> A box, one unit per side.
>> Expand it "equally " to twice its dimensions.
>> Now the points are (0,0),(0,2),(2,2), (2,0).
>>
>> IN THE SAME TIME THAT
>> (0,1) moved away from (0,0)  to (0,2),
>> which is ONE UNIT,
>> (1,1) moved away from (0,0) to (2,2)
>> which is  ONE POINT FOUR UNITS.
>
> (1,1) is NOT ADJACENT to (0,0). Please reread my post where I defined
> for you in plain English what "adjacent" means.
> (1,0) is adjacent to (0,0)
> (0,1) is adjacent to (0,0)
> (1,1) is not adjacent to (0,0)
> (3,2) is adjacent to (2,2) and to (3,3). It is not adjacent to (4,3) or
> to (3,4).

If it helps, please remember that the rate of expansion is listed as 
[(distance increase) per (original distance) per (time)]. It is NOT
[(distance increase) per (time)].

Remember, I gave you the three cases, in 1-D, 2-D and 3-D. The quoted 
expansion rate in all three was 1 inch per foot per day. Not 1 inch per day.

So in your case, you compared two points: (0,0) and (0,1). They are 
presently 1 unit of space apart. One unit of time later, they are 2 
units of space apart. The rate of expansion is 1 space-unit per 1 
space-unit per time-unit.

And you also compared two points: (0,0) and (1,1). They are presently 
1.4 units apart. One unit of time later, they are now 2.8 units apart. 
The rate of expansion is 1.4 space-units per 1.4 space-units per 1 
time-unit. That is IDENTICAL to 1 space-unit per 1 space-unit per 1 
time-unit.

>
>>
>> Depending on which "near neighbour"
>> you look at, you get a
>> DIFFERENT EXPANSION
>>
>> What's going on, Odd?
>>
>
>


-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#569382

From"Ross A. Finlayson" <ross.finlayson@gmail.com>
Date2016-04-09 22:40 -0700
Message-ID<33aa34d2-903a-487e-a802-eaf779100d6f@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#568298
On Wednesday, April 6, 2016 at 8:53:29 AM UTC-7, john wrote:
> Odd
> Just with 2D, your "expanding equally"
> Universe fails.
> Take the 4 points 0,0  and 1,0. and 0,1. and 1,1.
> A box, one unit per side.
> Expand it "equally " to twice its dimensions.
> Now the points are (0,0),(0,2),(2,2), (2,0).
> 
> IN THE SAME TIME THAT
> (0,1) moved away from (0,0)  to (0,2),
> which is ONE UNIT,
> (1,1) moved away from (0,0) to (2,2)
> which is  ONE POINT FOUR UNITS.
> 
> Depending on which "near neighbour"
> you look at, you get a
> DIFFERENT EXPANSION 
> 
> What's going on, Odd?

Modern galactic surveys don't all have 
them uniformly receding.  Instead the 
galaxies are not as what followed from 
Hubble's centenary survey that happened 
to find us within a jet of Laniakea, 
the local mega-cluster we are in, that 
does appear to have a center, and thus 
did appear to have the nearer neighbors 
receding because we're all falling away 
from the center of the Laniakea jet.

So, not, not all modern observation supports 
some "expanding universe" theory, though, it 
doesn't necessarily contradict expanding universe 
either.  Somehow it is both "Big Bang" and 
"Steady State" origins, our placement in the 
observable universe that has whatever is near 
and old enough for us to see, in the infinite 
spatial universe, that may simply enough be 
an infinite warehouse of moments, of sorts, of 
the observable universe.  

See, what we might be able to observe to either 
side, isn't necessarily in each other's observable 
universe, so actually might be the same.  In a 
sense, just like the mathematical universe, the 
physical universe is infinite, and, it contains itself.



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#568349

Frommoroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Date2016-04-06 18:55 +0000
Message-ID<ne3m2h$21j$1@pcls7.std.com>
In reply to#568261
HVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com> writes:


>9:38 AMjohn
>Never mind, Odd. 
>Let's talk about rates of expansion: 
>(0,1) went to (0,2) in one unit time 
>AWAY from (0,0). Right? Expansion equal 1. 
>(1,0) went to (2,0) in one unit time 
>AWAY from (0,0). Right? Expansion equal 1. 

>But the points now at (0,2) and (2,0) went 
>root 2 AWAY from each other? 
>Right? Expansion equal 1.4??? 
>What's going on, Odd? 

>Don't all three points have to retreat 
>equally? 
>------------

As Odd keeps pointing out, expansion is proportional to the original
distance.  So (0,1)->(0,2) is a doubling, and [(0,1),(1,0)]->[(0,2),(2,0)]
is also a doubling (sqrt(2)->2*sqrt(2)). No problem.

>John. Serious question. Have you ever received treatment for ADD?

Harlow, that would require using the products of Big Pharma.  Not just any
old Big Pharma product, the most EEEVIL product of Big Pharma - Ritalin!

(and besides, John seem to prefer Little Pharma)

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#568356

FromHVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com>
Date2016-04-06 12:20 -0700
Message-ID<7efee16d-8b9c-4d0b-acb7-f00e8ef7a9bb@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#568349
Michael Moroney said
As Odd keeps pointing out, expansion is proportional to the original 
distance.  So (0,1)->(0,2) is a doubling, and [(0,1),(1,0)]->[(0,2),(2,0)] 
is also a doubling (sqrt(2)->2*sqrt(2)). No problem. 

>John. Serious question. Have you ever received treatment for ADD? 

Harlow, that would require using the products of Big Pharma.  Not just any 
old Big Pharma product, the most EEEVIL product of Big Pharma - Ritalin! 

(and besides, John seem to prefer Little Pharma) 
------------

Well, it's just that John seem to have a difficult time grasping certain concepts. And after they are explained to him ad nauseum, he will ask again in a day or two.

But your point is well taken. In fact 'Small Pharma' may account for John's inability to retain information. I wonder what they pay an ounce for Smalll Parma up in Canada these daze

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#568379

Frombenj <none@gmail.com>
Date2016-04-06 16:08 -0400
Message-ID<B0eNy.2486$4C4.476@fx31.iad>
In reply to#568356
On 04/06/2016 03:20 PM, HVAC wrote:
> Michael Moroney said As Odd keeps pointing out, expansion is
> proportional to the original distance.  So (0,1)->(0,2) is a
> doubling, and [(0,1),(1,0)]->[(0,2),(2,0)] is also a doubling
> (sqrt(2)->2*sqrt(2)). No problem.
>
>> John. Serious question. Have you ever received treatment for ADD?
>
> Harlow, that would require using the products of Big Pharma.  Not
> just any old Big Pharma product, the most EEEVIL product of Big
> Pharma - Ritalin!
>
> (and besides, John seem to prefer Little Pharma) ------------
>
> Well, it's just that John seem to have a difficult time grasping
> certain concepts. And after they are explained to him ad nauseum, he
> will ask again in a day or two.
>
> But your point is well taken. In fact 'Small Pharma' may account for
> John's inability to retain information. I wonder what they pay an
> ounce for Smalll Parma up in Canada these daze

HVAC loves all Pharma big and little. You should see him with an AK47 in 
a post office stoked on Prozac! Too bad America didn't feed him Prozac 
in Viet Nam. We would still be running the drug business over there.

-- 

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   /::\~\:\__\   /::\~\:\  \   /:/|:|  |__  /\  /:/\/__/
  /:/\:\ \:|__| /:/\:\ \:\__\ /:/ |:| /\__\ \:\/:/  /
  \:\~\:\/:/  / \:\~\:\ \/__/ \/__|:|/:/  /  \::/  /
   \:\ \::/  /   \:\ \:\__\       |:/:/  /    \/__/
    \:\/:/  /     \:\ \/__/       |::/  /
     \::/__/       \:\__\         /:/  /
      ~~            \/__/         \/__/

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#568270

Frombenj <none@gmail.com>
Date2016-04-06 10:28 -0400
Message-ID<129Ny.7408$ZI.5974@fx42.iad>
In reply to#568240
On 04/06/2016 08:52 AM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> On 4/6/2016 7:37 AM, john wrote:
>> Odd wrote
>>
>> "Yes, of course you're moving with it. What makes some other point the
>> "magic" point that stays at rest relative to you??"
>>
>> Okay Odd.
>> So space is expanding.
>> Universally.
>> Which direction is it going?
>>
>
> Outward. From every point.
> That's what UNIFORM EXPANSION means.
>
> You believe in an infinite universe. This means there is no boundary to
> the universe. Therefore if you try to ask in which direction the
> boundary is moving, it's a nonsense question, because there IS NO boundary.

Best "flat earth" theory I ever heard, Boinker! You never fall off the 
edge of the flat earth because there is no edge! Whoppee! You are a 
science genius. You and Glazier are due to share the Nobel soon! And 
that will "prove" you are a scientist, of course.



-- 

       ___           ___           ___            ___
      /\  \         /\  \         /\__\          /\  \
     /::\  \       /::\  \       /::|  |         \:\  \
    /:/\:\  \     /:/\:\  \     /:|:|  |     ___ /::\__\
   /::\~\:\__\   /::\~\:\  \   /:/|:|  |__  /\  /:/\/__/
  /:/\:\ \:|__| /:/\:\ \:\__\ /:/ |:| /\__\ \:\/:/  /
  \:\~\:\/:/  / \:\~\:\ \/__/ \/__|:|/:/  /  \::/  /
   \:\ \::/  /   \:\ \:\__\       |:/:/  /    \/__/
    \:\/:/  /     \:\ \/__/       |::/  /
     \::/__/       \:\__\         /:/  /
      ~~            \/__/         \/__/

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#568277

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2016-04-06 09:47 -0500
Message-ID<ne37he$p5a$2@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#568270
On 4/6/2016 9:28 AM, benj wrote:
> On 04/06/2016 08:52 AM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>> On 4/6/2016 7:37 AM, john wrote:
>>> Odd wrote
>>>
>>> "Yes, of course you're moving with it. What makes some other point the
>>> "magic" point that stays at rest relative to you??"
>>>
>>> Okay Odd.
>>> So space is expanding.
>>> Universally.
>>> Which direction is it going?
>>>
>>
>> Outward. From every point.
>> That's what UNIFORM EXPANSION means.
>>
>> You believe in an infinite universe. This means there is no boundary to
>> the universe. Therefore if you try to ask in which direction the
>> boundary is moving, it's a nonsense question, because there IS NO
>> boundary.
>
> Best "flat earth" theory I ever heard, Boinker!

Like I said, Ben: JOHN believes in an infinite universe without edge. 
You believe it has a boundary and say sometimes that calculating where 
it is is straightforward and say sometimes that it's tricky.

> You never fall off the
> edge of the flat earth because there is no edge! Whoppee! You are a
> science genius. You and Glazier are due to share the Nobel soon! And
> that will "prove" you are a scientist, of course.
>
>
>


-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#568177

Frombenj <none@gmail.com>
Date2016-04-05 22:14 -0400
Message-ID<vi_My.16716$4s2.2050@fx01.iad>
In reply to#568130
On 04/05/2016 06:10 PM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> On 4/5/2016 8:56 AM, benj wrote:
>> On 04/05/2016 08:30 AM, john wrote:
>>> Ben was getting down to it, OdD;
>>>
>>> Equal Universal expansion is an impossibility.
>>> Think about it.
>>> Your spots on the balloon's surface
>>> retreat equally from each other. One
>>> layer down, not so much.
>>> Near the center, they barely move.
>>> So.
>>> How does EVERYTHING retreat equally
>>> from each other?
>>> I suggest that you actually try to model
>>> this concept, Odd.
>>> Logically.
>>> This "universal expansion" concept.
>>> It can be shown to be logically impossible.
>>
>> "Logically impossible" is no problem for Odd or HVAC. In their world if
>> they can imagine it, it is therefore true in the real world.
>
> If it is imaginable, it is not logically impossible, is it? Being
> logically possible does not mean that it exists in the true world. Lots
> of things are LOGICALLY POSSIBLE even if experiment shows it does not
> happen.
>
> I'll give you an example: Magnetic monopoles. Nothing logically
> impossible about them. It appears they don't exist anyway. So does that
> mean they're suddenly logically impossible?
>
> Let's take another example. Hitler's grandchildren. Logically
> impossible? Of course not. Do they exist? No.
>
> How about a rod that happens to be EXACTLY 2 meters long? Logically
> impossible? No. Does it exist? Probably not.
How clever you are to turn "Logically impossible" into "logically 
possible" and then use that to "prove" I've lost the debate. Winning any 
cases lately?  Defending lots of crooks I presume. You are almost as 
great a wordsmith as our moderator.



-- 

       ___           ___           ___            ___
      /\  \         /\  \         /\__\          /\  \
     /::\  \       /::\  \       /::|  |         \:\  \
    /:/\:\  \     /:/\:\  \     /:|:|  |     ___ /::\__\
   /::\~\:\__\   /::\~\:\  \   /:/|:|  |__  /\  /:/\/__/
  /:/\:\ \:|__| /:/\:\ \:\__\ /:/ |:| /\__\ \:\/:/  /
  \:\~\:\/:/  / \:\~\:\ \/__/ \/__|:|/:/  /  \::/  /
   \:\ \::/  /   \:\ \:\__\       |:/:/  /    \/__/
    \:\/:/  /     \:\ \/__/       |::/  /
     \::/__/       \:\__\         /:/  /
      ~~            \/__/         \/__/

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#568234

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2016-04-06 07:27 -0500
Message-ID<ne2vb5$918$2@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#568177
On 4/5/2016 9:14 PM, benj wrote:
> On 04/05/2016 06:10 PM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>> On 4/5/2016 8:56 AM, benj wrote:
>>> On 04/05/2016 08:30 AM, john wrote:
>>>> Ben was getting down to it, OdD;
>>>>
>>>> Equal Universal expansion is an impossibility.
>>>> Think about it.
>>>> Your spots on the balloon's surface
>>>> retreat equally from each other. One
>>>> layer down, not so much.
>>>> Near the center, they barely move.
>>>> So.
>>>> How does EVERYTHING retreat equally
>>>> from each other?
>>>> I suggest that you actually try to model
>>>> this concept, Odd.
>>>> Logically.
>>>> This "universal expansion" concept.
>>>> It can be shown to be logically impossible.
>>>
>>> "Logically impossible" is no problem for Odd or HVAC. In their world if
>>> they can imagine it, it is therefore true in the real world.
>>
>> If it is imaginable, it is not logically impossible, is it? Being
>> logically possible does not mean that it exists in the true world. Lots
>> of things are LOGICALLY POSSIBLE even if experiment shows it does not
>> happen.
>>
>> I'll give you an example: Magnetic monopoles. Nothing logically
>> impossible about them. It appears they don't exist anyway. So does that
>> mean they're suddenly logically impossible?
>>
>> Let's take another example. Hitler's grandchildren. Logically
>> impossible? Of course not. Do they exist? No.
>>
>> How about a rod that happens to be EXACTLY 2 meters long? Logically
>> impossible? No. Does it exist? Probably not.
> How clever you are to turn "Logically impossible" into "logically
> possible" and then use that to "prove" I've lost the debate. Winning any
> cases lately?  Defending lots of crooks I presume. You are almost as
> great a wordsmith as our moderator.
>

It takes no debating skill when you say something that is obviously silly.

It'd be like calling me a sharpshooter when you get shot in the foot by 
your own gun held in your own hand.


-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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#568237

FromHVAC <mr.hvac@gmail.com>
Date2016-04-06 05:47 -0700
Message-ID<15288515-90d0-427c-91f0-41f0f77b8065@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#568234
Odd Bodkin
> How clever you are to turn "Logically impossible" into "logically 
> possible" and then use that to "prove" I've lost the debate. Winning any 
> cases lately?  Defending lots of crooks I presume. You are almost as 
> great a wordsmith as our moderator. 
> 

It takes no debating skill when you say something that is obviously silly. 

It'd be like calling me a sharpshooter when you get shot in the foot by 
your own gun held in your own hand.
---------------

Oh! I like that one. 

I'll use that in a future post and claim that *I* thought it up!

So please accept my apology in advance

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#568264

Frombenj <none@gmail.com>
Date2016-04-06 10:20 -0400
Message-ID<vW8Ny.44$S5.19@fx20.iad>
In reply to#568234
On 04/06/2016 08:27 AM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> On 4/5/2016 9:14 PM, benj wrote:
>> On 04/05/2016 06:10 PM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>>> On 4/5/2016 8:56 AM, benj wrote:
>>>> On 04/05/2016 08:30 AM, john wrote:
>>>>> Ben was getting down to it, OdD;
>>>>>
>>>>> Equal Universal expansion is an impossibility.
>>>>> Think about it.
>>>>> Your spots on the balloon's surface
>>>>> retreat equally from each other. One
>>>>> layer down, not so much.
>>>>> Near the center, they barely move.
>>>>> So.
>>>>> How does EVERYTHING retreat equally
>>>>> from each other?
>>>>> I suggest that you actually try to model
>>>>> this concept, Odd.
>>>>> Logically.
>>>>> This "universal expansion" concept.
>>>>> It can be shown to be logically impossible.
>>>>
>>>> "Logically impossible" is no problem for Odd or HVAC. In their world if
>>>> they can imagine it, it is therefore true in the real world.
>>>
>>> If it is imaginable, it is not logically impossible, is it? Being
>>> logically possible does not mean that it exists in the true world. Lots
>>> of things are LOGICALLY POSSIBLE even if experiment shows it does not
>>> happen.
>>>
>>> I'll give you an example: Magnetic monopoles. Nothing logically
>>> impossible about them. It appears they don't exist anyway. So does that
>>> mean they're suddenly logically impossible?
>>>
>>> Let's take another example. Hitler's grandchildren. Logically
>>> impossible? Of course not. Do they exist? No.
>>>
>>> How about a rod that happens to be EXACTLY 2 meters long? Logically
>>> impossible? No. Does it exist? Probably not.
>> How clever you are to turn "Logically impossible" into "logically
>> possible" and then use that to "prove" I've lost the debate. Winning any
>> cases lately?  Defending lots of crooks I presume. You are almost as
>> great a wordsmith as our moderator.
>>
>
> It takes no debating skill when you say something that is obviously silly.
>
> It'd be like calling me a sharpshooter when you get shot in the foot by
> your own gun held in your own hand.

That makes no sense whatsoever! No wonder HVAC loves it! He loves lies 
and insane statements. He's also gay.

"Points" do not exist so how can a rod be "exactly" 2 meters long? You'd 
have to have the length accurate to actual "point" which is a fantasy. 
So such a bar is logically possible only in your mind. So your argument 
is that Tinker Bell is logically possible but just does not exist. But 
you can't even prove that. To prove that negative would take 
superpowers! Hence you believe that all the following are "logically 
possible":

Ghosts
ESP
Astral projection
The 9/11 conspiracy
Aliens and UFOs
Atlantis
Ley lines
Telekinesis
The bible
God
Planet Nibru is coming
HVAC is a government agent
Vaccines are bad
Ancient aliens
JFK conspiracy
Operation paperclip

I won't tell HVAC that you believe in all these things if you won't!


-- 

       ___           ___           ___            ___
      /\  \         /\  \         /\__\          /\  \
     /::\  \       /::\  \       /::|  |         \:\  \
    /:/\:\  \     /:/\:\  \     /:|:|  |     ___ /::\__\
   /::\~\:\__\   /::\~\:\  \   /:/|:|  |__  /\  /:/\/__/
  /:/\:\ \:|__| /:/\:\ \:\__\ /:/ |:| /\__\ \:\/:/  /
  \:\~\:\/:/  / \:\~\:\ \/__/ \/__|:|/:/  /  \::/  /
   \:\ \::/  /   \:\ \:\__\       |:/:/  /    \/__/
    \:\/:/  /     \:\ \/__/       |::/  /
     \::/__/       \:\__\         /:/  /
      ~~            \/__/         \/__/

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#568275

FromOdd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com>
Date2016-04-06 09:45 -0500
Message-ID<ne37dp$p5a$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#568264
On 4/6/2016 9:20 AM, benj wrote:
> On 04/06/2016 08:27 AM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>> On 4/5/2016 9:14 PM, benj wrote:
>>> On 04/05/2016 06:10 PM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>>>> On 4/5/2016 8:56 AM, benj wrote:
>>>>> On 04/05/2016 08:30 AM, john wrote:
>>>>>> Ben was getting down to it, OdD;
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Equal Universal expansion is an impossibility.
>>>>>> Think about it.
>>>>>> Your spots on the balloon's surface
>>>>>> retreat equally from each other. One
>>>>>> layer down, not so much.
>>>>>> Near the center, they barely move.
>>>>>> So.
>>>>>> How does EVERYTHING retreat equally
>>>>>> from each other?
>>>>>> I suggest that you actually try to model
>>>>>> this concept, Odd.
>>>>>> Logically.
>>>>>> This "universal expansion" concept.
>>>>>> It can be shown to be logically impossible.
>>>>>
>>>>> "Logically impossible" is no problem for Odd or HVAC. In their
>>>>> world if
>>>>> they can imagine it, it is therefore true in the real world.
>>>>
>>>> If it is imaginable, it is not logically impossible, is it? Being
>>>> logically possible does not mean that it exists in the true world. Lots
>>>> of things are LOGICALLY POSSIBLE even if experiment shows it does not
>>>> happen.
>>>>
>>>> I'll give you an example: Magnetic monopoles. Nothing logically
>>>> impossible about them. It appears they don't exist anyway. So does that
>>>> mean they're suddenly logically impossible?
>>>>
>>>> Let's take another example. Hitler's grandchildren. Logically
>>>> impossible? Of course not. Do they exist? No.
>>>>
>>>> How about a rod that happens to be EXACTLY 2 meters long? Logically
>>>> impossible? No. Does it exist? Probably not.
>>> How clever you are to turn "Logically impossible" into "logically
>>> possible" and then use that to "prove" I've lost the debate. Winning any
>>> cases lately?  Defending lots of crooks I presume. You are almost as
>>> great a wordsmith as our moderator.
>>>
>>
>> It takes no debating skill when you say something that is obviously
>> silly.
>>
>> It'd be like calling me a sharpshooter when you get shot in the foot by
>> your own gun held in your own hand.
>
> That makes no sense whatsoever! No wonder HVAC loves it! He loves lies
> and insane statements. He's also gay.
>
> "Points" do not exist so how can a rod be "exactly" 2 meters long?

I didn't say anything about points. I said a physical rod. I assume that 
2 meters EXACTLY corresponds to a real length. Or are you saying that 
all real lengths have values like 2.013 m or 2.0000001 m but NEVER 2 m 
exactly, and that 2 m exactly is a physically impossible length? Note I 
did not say that you'd be able to MEASURE it exactly. I just said that 
the real length, regardless whether or how you measure it, is 2 m 
exactly. Is it your statement that such a real length (independent of 
measurement) is physically and logically impossible?

> You'd
> have to have the length accurate to actual "point" which is a fantasy.
> So such a bar is logically possible only in your mind. So your argument
> is that Tinker Bell is logically possible but just does not exist. But
> you can't even prove that. To prove that negative would take
> superpowers! Hence you believe that all the following are "logically
> possible":
>
> Ghosts
> ESP
> Astral projection
> The 9/11 conspiracy
> Aliens and UFOs
> Atlantis
> Ley lines
> Telekinesis
> The bible
> God
> Planet Nibru is coming
> HVAC is a government agent
> Vaccines are bad
> Ancient aliens
> JFK conspiracy
> Operation paperclip
>
> I won't tell HVAC that you believe in all these things if you won't!
>
>


-- 
Odd Bodkin --- maker of fine toys, tools, tables

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