Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > sci.physics > #681393 > unrolled thread

irreproducibility crisis

Back to article view | Back to sci.physics

Contents

  irreproducibility crisis The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-04-17 10:01 -0700
    Re: irreproducibility crisis Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-04-17 10:50 -0700
    Re: irreproducibility crisis The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-04-17 11:03 -0700
      Re: irreproducibility crisis Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-04-18 08:26 -0700
    Re: irreproducibility crisis Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-04-18 16:39 +0200
      Re: irreproducibility crisis The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-04-18 10:31 -0700
        Re: irreproducibility crisis Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-04-19 18:46 +0200
          Re: irreproducibility crisis Edward Prochak <edprochak@gmail.com> - 2018-04-19 14:14 -0700
          Re: irreproducibility crisis The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-04-19 23:45 -0700
            Re: irreproducibility crisis Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-04-20 17:54 +0200
              Re: irreproducibility crisis Sergio <invalid@invalid.com> - 2018-04-24 10:33 -0500
              Re: irreproducibility crisis The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-04-24 09:01 -0700
                Re: irreproducibility crisis Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-04-24 18:39 +0200
                  Re: irreproducibility crisis The Starmaker <starmaker@ix.netcom.com> - 2018-04-24 09:50 -0700
                    Re: irreproducibility crisis Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> - 2018-04-25 14:26 +0200

#681393 — irreproducibility crisis

"Half the results published in peer-reviewed scientific journals are probably wrong.
 John Ioannidis, now a professor of medicine at Stanford, made headlines with that claim in 2005. 
Since then, researchers have confirmed his skepticism by trying—and often failing—to reproduce many influential journal articles.  
Slowly, scientists are internalizing the lessons of this irreproducibility crisis."

[toc] | [next] | [standalone]

#681399

On Tuesday, April 17, 2018 at 1:01:13 PM UTC-4, The Starmaker wrote:
> "Half the results published in peer-reviewed scientific journals
>  are probably wrong.
>  John Ioannidis, now a professor of medicine at Stanford, made
> headlines with that claim in 2005. 
> Since then, researchers have confirmed his skepticism by
> trying—and often failing—to reproduce many influential journal articles.  
> Slowly, scientists are internalizing the lessons of this
> irreproducibility crisis."

Don't know where you are quoting from, but the crisis is in
medical research, not physics.

from
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2010/11/lies-damned-lies-and-medical-science/308269/

"Much of what medical researchers conclude in their studies is
 misleading, exaggerated, or flat-out wrong. So why are doctors—to
 a striking extent—still drawing upon misinformation in their
 everyday practice? Dr. John Ioannidis has spent his career
 challenging his peers by exposing their bad science."

Dr. Ioannidis is a good example of how to operate as a contrarian
in a scientific discipline. He actually does the research to test
the results of others. he has uncovered incompetence and fraud.

His approach is a welcome contrast to the claims of many
in this group who fail to research and understand the topics
that they proclaim as wrong.

Thankfully Physics usually is tested and retested.
Much harder to hide fraud in physics.

   Enjoy.
  Ed

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#681402

The Starmaker wrote:
> 
> "Half the results published in peer-reviewed scientific journals are probably wrong.
>  John Ioannidis, now a professor of medicine at Stanford, made headlines with that claim in 2005.
> Since then, researchers have confirmed his skepticism by trying—and often failing—to reproduce many influential journal articles.
> Slowly, scientists are internalizing the lessons of this irreproducibility crisis."



https://www.nas.org/projects/irreproducibility_report

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#681559

On Tuesday, April 17, 2018 at 2:03:43 PM UTC-4, The Starmaker wrote:
> 
> https://www.nas.org/projects/irreproducibility_report

"A reproducibility crisis afflicts a wide range of scientific and social-scientific disciplines, from epidemiology to social psychology."

Not Physics.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#681547

Am 17.04.2018 um 19:01 schrieb The Starmaker:
> "Half the results published in peer-reviewed scientific journals are probably wrong.

The problem is: they don't know which half....


TH

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#681579

Thomas Heger wrote:
> 
> Am 17.04.2018 um 19:01 schrieb The Starmaker:
> > "Half the results published in peer-reviewed scientific journals are probably wrong.
> 
> The problem is: they don't know which half....
> 
> TH



you have to write it in a way...that the person reading it doesn't
understand it.


All you have to do is throw in a lot of numbers and the reader...

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#681656

Am 18.04.2018 um 19:31 schrieb The Starmaker:

>>> "Half the results published in peer-reviewed scientific journals are probably wrong.
>>
>> The problem is: they don't know which half....
>>
>> TH
>
>
>
> you have to write it in a way...that the person reading it doesn't
> understand it.
>
>
> All you have to do is throw in a lot of numbers and the reader...
>

Well, there are many ways possible, if your intention is to disturb the 
readers mind.

First you need dogmas, that are blatantly wrong, but absolutely 
untouchable.

E.g. I'm a proponent of the so called 'Growing Earth' hypothesis. I have 
actually spent years on that subject and have written hundreds of 
messages to various forums. But my arguments are always rejected, since 
'it cannot be true, because it violates the laws'.

To question the 'laws' itself is prohibited and once a professional 
does, he will almost certainly loose his job.

Other 'law' is 'the universal speed limit of c'.

Someone found, that neutrinos travel faster than c (and subsequently got 
fired).

We have also the Russian Podclednov, who found certain gravitational 
effects from spinning super-conductive rings (got banned and fired).

(This goes on and on and on...)


TH

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#681673

On Thursday, April 19, 2018 at 12:46:20 PM UTC-4, Thomas Heger wrote:
> Am 18.04.2018 um 19:31 schrieb The Starmaker:
> 
> >>> "Half the results published in peer-reviewed scientific journals are probably wrong.
> >>
> >> The problem is: they don't know which half....
> >>
> >> TH
> >
> >
> >
> > you have to write it in a way...that the person reading it doesn't
> > understand it.
> >
> >
> > All you have to do is throw in a lot of numbers and the reader...
> >
> 
> Well, there are many ways possible, if your intention is to disturb the 
> readers mind.
> 
> First you need dogmas, that are blatantly wrong, but absolutely 
> untouchable.
> 
> E.g. I'm a proponent of the so called 'Growing Earth' hypothesis. I have 
> actually spent years on that subject and have written hundreds of 
> messages to various forums. But my arguments are always rejected, since 
> 'it cannot be true, because it violates the laws'.

No, to say that "it violates the laws" is to say that the theory
 would not produce predictions that match known experimental results.
That's all it means.

> 
> To question the 'laws' itself is prohibited and once a professional 
> does, he will almost certainly loose his job.

Another falsehood. Look up Robert Oldershaw and his fractal
universe theory.  He continues to work in the field though
the chance of his theory making progress is small.

> 
> Other 'law' is 'the universal speed limit of c'.
> 
> Someone found, that neutrinos travel faster than c (and subsequently got 
> fired).

NO, the team went back to analyze their data again and found their error.
Stop spreading false history. No one fired.

> 
> We have also the Russian Podclednov, who found certain gravitational 
> effects from spinning super-conductive rings (got banned and fired).
> 
Seems that he is now working elsewhere.

> (This goes on and on and on...)
> 
> 
> TH

It goes on and on only in conspiracy circles.

Ed

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#681741

Thomas Heger wrote:
> 
> Am 18.04.2018 um 19:31 schrieb The Starmaker:
> 
> >>> "Half the results published in peer-reviewed scientific journals are probably wrong.
> >>
> >> The problem is: they don't know which half....
> >>
> >> TH
> >
> >
> >
> > you have to write it in a way...that the person reading it doesn't
> > understand it.
> >
> >
> > All you have to do is throw in a lot of numbers and the reader...
> >
> 
> Well, there are many ways possible, if your intention is to disturb the
> readers mind.
> 
> First you need dogmas, that are blatantly wrong, but absolutely
> untouchable.
> 
> E.g. I'm a proponent of the so called 'Growing Earth' hypothesis. I have
> actually spent years on that subject and have written hundreds of
> messages to various forums. But my arguments are always rejected, since
> 'it cannot be true, because it violates the laws'.
> 
> To question the 'laws' itself is prohibited and once a professional
> does, he will almost certainly loose his job.
> 
> Other 'law' is 'the universal speed limit of c'.
> 
> Someone found, that neutrinos travel faster than c (and subsequently got
> fired).
> 
> We have also the Russian Podclednov, who found certain gravitational
> effects from spinning super-conductive rings (got banned and fired).
> 
> (This goes on and on and on...)
> 
> TH

according to Albert Einstein...'in his own words' he said:

'If you oppose my theories, you're an anti-semitic.'


http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn83030214/1921-04-03/ed-1/seq-3/
http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn83030214/1921-04-03/ed-1/seq-3/ocr/
http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn83030214/1921-04-03/ed-1/seq-3.pdf

""Why were men of science opposed
to your theory when you first made it
known ?"
"No men of science," he replied, em
phasizing the last'word, "were against
the theory."
"But there was some opposition?"
"Yes," was the quiet reply, "but that
was purely political. Even the physi
cists who opposed my theory did so for
 political reasons?in my opinion, o'
 course."
"What do you mean when you say
the opposition was political?"
"Anti-Semitism," was the scientist's
answer. "Because I am a Jew." ""

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#681765

Am 20.04.2018 um 08:45 schrieb The Starmaker:

> ""Why were men of science opposed
> to your theory when you first made it
> known ?"
> "No men of science," he replied, em
> phasizing the last'word, "were against
> the theory."
> "But there was some opposition?"
> "Yes," was the quiet reply, "but that
> was purely political. Even the physi
> cists who opposed my theory did so for
>  political reasons?in my opinion, o'
>  course."
> "What do you mean when you say
> the opposition was political?"
> "Anti-Semitism," was the scientist's
> answer. "Because I am a Jew." ""
>
Einstein was a promoter of Zionism and a Jew, but not a Semite.

Einstein was a German and born in Ulm.

'Semites' are people, that live in the middle east. You could (somehow) 
translate this terms with 'Arabs' (what Einstein wasn't).

Zionism is also not predominately Jewish, since Judaism is a religion 
and Zionism a political movement.

Main supporters of this movement have not been Jews (or Semites). E.g. 
Winston Churchill was a supporter of Zionism and he was not particularly 
religious.

The connection between ethnic groups, political movement and religion is 
actually more difficult than you think.

In a way Islam, Christianity and Judaism belong actually the same 
believe system called 'monotheism'.

A German historian named Karl Heinz Ohlig had found out, that the early 
Islam was a variant of the 'per-Nicean' Syrian Christianity, called 
'Arianism'.

The Arabs adopted this believe after they conquered the city Merv in the 
empire of the Sassanides. The Arians had kind of Messias (prophet), who 
belonged to the Jewish sect of the Essenes, who live in Qumran at the 
Dead Sea.

This prophet had the Aramaic title 'Mahmed', which means 'the one to be 
praised'.

That guy got later the Greek name 'Iesos', which later morphed into 'Jesus'.

The Arabs translated the Qumran scripts into Arabic around 830 and 
changed 'Mahmed' to 'Mohammed' (and added a few centuries).

So all these religions are in fact only one, but had been altered in 
many ways by the rulers in the various Empires involved.

The Romans fused they local pantheon into the early Christian believe, 
which in the beginning was a variant of Judaism. Out came what we call 
'Catholicism'.

Against the early Christians ('Arians') revolted and were therefore 
prosecuted by the Romans.

They fled from Syria along the Silk Road to the Empire of the Sassanides 
and settled in Merv, which was then the largest city in the World.


TH

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#682225

On 4/20/2018 10:54 AM, Thomas Heger wrote:
> Am 20.04.2018 um 08:45 schrieb The Starmaker:
> 
>> ""Why were men of science opposed
>> to your theory when you first made it
>> known ?"
>> "No men of science," he replied, em
>> phasizing the last'word, "were against
>> the theory."
>> "But there was some opposition?"
>> "Yes," was the quiet reply, "but that
>> was purely political. Even the physi
>> cists who opposed my theory did so for
>>  political reasons?in my opinion, o'
>>  course."
>> "What do you mean when you say
>> the opposition was political?"
>> "Anti-Semitism," was the scientist's
>> answer. "Because I am a Jew." ""
>>
> Einstein was a promoter of Zionism and a Jew, but not a Semite.
> 
> Einstein was a German and born in Ulm.
> 
> 'Semites' are people, that live in the middle east. You could (somehow)
> translate this terms with 'Arabs' (what Einstein wasn't).
> 
> Zionism is also not predominately Jewish, since Judaism is a religion
> and Zionism a political movement.
> 
> Main supporters of this movement have not been Jews (or Semites). E.g.
> Winston Churchill was a supporter of Zionism and he was not particularly
> religious.
> 
> The connection between ethnic groups, political movement and religion is
> actually more difficult than you think.

very true

> 
> In a way Islam, Christianity and Judaism belong actually the same
> believe system called 'monotheism'.

Islam got rid of 3 gods in 1 that the Christians have, major selling
point of islam is it has one god.

> 
> A German historian named Karl Heinz Ohlig had found out, that the early
> Islam was a variant of the 'per-Nicean' Syrian Christianity, called
> 'Arianism'.
> 
> The Arabs adopted this believe after they conquered the city Merv in the
> empire of the Sassanides. The Arians had kind of Messias (prophet), who
> belonged to the Jewish sect of the Essenes, who live in Qumran at the
> Dead Sea.
> 
> This prophet had the Aramaic title 'Mahmed', which means 'the one to be
> praised'.
> 
> That guy got later the Greek name 'Iesos', which later morphed into
> 'Jesus'.
> 
> The Arabs translated the Qumran scripts into Arabic around 830 and
> changed 'Mahmed' to 'Mohammed' (and added a few centuries).
> 
> So all these religions are in fact only one, but had been altered in
> many ways by the rulers in the various Empires involved.

not so, Cathloics comes from the old and new "Bible",
Islam from the "Koran", and they are completely different.

but go back to  Zoroastrianism, many of the beliefs the 3 above, started
with them

> 
> The Romans fused they local pantheon into the early Christian believe,
> which in the beginning was a variant of Judaism. Out came what we call
> 'Catholicism'.
> 
> Against the early Christians ('Arians') revolted and were therefore
> prosecuted by the Romans.
> 
> They fled from Syria along the Silk Road to the Empire of the Sassanides
> and settled in Merv, which was then the largest city in the World.
> 
> 
> TH
> 
> 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#682233

Thomas Heger wrote:
> 
> Am 20.04.2018 um 08:45 schrieb The Starmaker:
> 
> > ""Why were men of science opposed
> > to your theory when you first made it
> > known ?"
> > "No men of science," he replied, em
> > phasizing the last'word, "were against
> > the theory."
> > "But there was some opposition?"
> > "Yes," was the quiet reply, "but that
> > was purely political. Even the physi
> > cists who opposed my theory did so for
> >  political reasons?in my opinion, o'
> >  course."
> > "What do you mean when you say
> > the opposition was political?"
> > "Anti-Semitism," was the scientist's
> > answer. "Because I am a Jew." ""
> >
> Einstein was a promoter of Zionism and a Jew, but not a Semite.


As I see it, it's the opposite:
https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=31LfWoqtD4WytQW456XwAQ&q=einstein+against+zionism+letter&oq=einstein+against+zionism+letter&gs_l=psy-ab.12...752.12120.0.13828.30.28.0.0.0.0.830.1094.2-1j6-1.2.0....0...1.1.64.psy-ab..28.2.1092...0j0i131k1j0i131i46k1j46i131k1.0.e-bOEIFVpb4


Einstein was against...zionism. Where do you get your info from?


> 
> Einstein was a German and born in Ulm.
> 
> 'Semites' are people, that live in the middle east. You could (somehow)
> translate this terms with 'Arabs' (what Einstein wasn't).
> 
> Zionism is also not predominately Jewish, since Judaism is a religion
> and Zionism a political movement.
> 
> Main supporters of this movement have not been Jews (or Semites). E.g.
> Winston Churchill was a supporter of Zionism and he was not particularly
> religious.
> 
> The connection between ethnic groups, political movement and religion is
> actually more difficult than you think.
> 
> In a way Islam, Christianity and Judaism belong actually the same
> believe system called 'monotheism'.
> 
> A German historian named Karl Heinz Ohlig had found out, that the early
> Islam was a variant of the 'per-Nicean' Syrian Christianity, called
> 'Arianism'.
> 
> The Arabs adopted this believe after they conquered the city Merv in the
> empire of the Sassanides. The Arians had kind of Messias (prophet), who
> belonged to the Jewish sect of the Essenes, who live in Qumran at the
> Dead Sea.
> 
> This prophet had the Aramaic title 'Mahmed', which means 'the one to be
> praised'.
> 
> That guy got later the Greek name 'Iesos', which later morphed into 'Jesus'.
> 
> The Arabs translated the Qumran scripts into Arabic around 830 and
> changed 'Mahmed' to 'Mohammed' (and added a few centuries).
> 
> So all these religions are in fact only one, but had been altered in
> many ways by the rulers in the various Empires involved.
> 
> The Romans fused they local pantheon into the early Christian believe,
> which in the beginning was a variant of Judaism. Out came what we call
> 'Catholicism'.
> 
> Against the early Christians ('Arians') revolted and were therefore
> prosecuted by the Romans.
> 
> They fled from Syria along the Silk Road to the Empire of the Sassanides
> and settled in Merv, which was then the largest city in the World.
> 
> TH

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#682240

Am 24.04.2018 um 18:01 schrieb The Starmaker:
...
>> Einstein was a promoter of Zionism and a Jew, but not a Semite.
>
>
> As I see it, it's the opposite:
...

>
>
> Einstein was against...zionism. Where do you get your info from?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_views_of_Albert_Einstein>
Quote:

" 	
[quote from Einstein:]
Long before the emergence of Hitler I made the cause of Zionism mine 
because through it I saw a means of correcting a flagrant wrong....The 
Jewish people alone has for centuries been in the anomalous position of 
being victimized and hounded as a people, though bereft of all the 
rights and protections which even the smallest people normally 
has...Zionism offered the means of ending this discrimination. Through 
the return to the land to which they were bound by close historic 
ties...Jews sought to abolish their pariah status among peoples..."
...

"His speeches and lectures about Zionism were published in 1931 by The 
Macmillan Company[21] and eleven of these essays were collected in a 
1933 book entitled Mein Weltbild and translated into English as The 
World as I See It; Einstein's foreword dedicates the collection "to the 
Jews of Germany"  "



TH

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#682245

Thomas Heger wrote:
> 
> Am 24.04.2018 um 18:01 schrieb The Starmaker:
> ...
> >> Einstein was a promoter of Zionism and a Jew, but not a Semite.
> >
> >
> > As I see it, it's the opposite:
> ...
> 
> >
> >
> > Einstein was against...zionism. Where do you get your info from?
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_views_of_Albert_Einstein>
> Quote:
> 
> "
> [quote from Einstein:]
> Long before the emergence of Hitler I made the cause of Zionism mine
> because through it I saw a means of correcting a flagrant wrong....The
> Jewish people alone has for centuries been in the anomalous position of
> being victimized and hounded as a people, though bereft of all the
> rights and protections which even the smallest people normally
> has...Zionism offered the means of ending this discrimination. Through
> the return to the land to which they were bound by close historic
> ties...Jews sought to abolish their pariah status among peoples..."
> ...
> 
> "His speeches and lectures about Zionism were published in 1931 by The
> Macmillan Company[21] and eleven of these essays were collected in a
> 1933 book entitled Mein Weltbild and translated into English as The
> World as I See It; Einstein's foreword dedicates the collection "to the
> Jews of Germany"  "
> 
> TH


wikipedia is a user edited website...which means it's filled with
propaganda.

If you view the history original source of the person who first posted
it on wikipedia...


(cur | prev) 14:14, 16 August 2009? ADM (talk | contribs)? . . (18,526
bytes) (+18,526)? . . (?Created page with 'The '''political views of
Albert Einstein''' emerged publicly in the middle of the 20th century
due to latter's fame and genius, having found himself to be called
o...')



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:ADM
This user has been blocked indefinitely from editing Wikipedia.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#682314

Am 24.04.2018 um 18:50 schrieb The Starmaker:
> Thomas Heger wrote:
>>
.
>>>> Einstein was a promoter of Zionism and a Jew, but not a Semite.
>>>
>>>
>>> As I see it, it's the opposite:
>> ...
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Einstein was against...zionism. Where do you get your info from?
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_views_of_Albert_Einstein>
>> Quote:
>>
>> "
>> [quote from Einstein:]
>> Long before the emergence of Hitler I made the cause of Zionism mine
>> because through it I saw a means of correcting a flagrant wrong....The
>> Jewish people alone has for centuries been in the anomalous position of
>> being victimized and hounded as a people, though bereft of all the
>> rights and protections which even the smallest people normally
>> has...Zionism offered the means of ending this discrimination. Through
>> the return to the land to which they were bound by close historic
>> ties...Jews sought to abolish their pariah status among peoples..."
>> ...
>>
>> "His speeches and lectures about Zionism were published in 1931 by The
>> Macmillan Company[21] and eleven of these essays were collected in a
>> 1933 book entitled Mein Weltbild and translated into English as The
>> World as I See It; Einstein's foreword dedicates the collection "to the
>> Jews of Germany"  "
>>
>> TH
>
>
> wikipedia is a user edited website...which means it's filled with
> propaganda.
>
> If you view the history original source of the person who first posted
> it on wikipedia...

But YOU have actually posted this link:

https://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn83030214/1921-04-03/ed-1/seq-3/

It is New-York tribune., April 03, 1921, Page 3, Image 3

The article you quoted has the title:

"Zionists greet Einstein, here for Palestine"

So, IOW, to deny Einstein the status as a Zionist is like claiming, the 
pope would be a Muslim.

Einstein was actually in the very middle of the Zionist mainstream. 
Israel actually offered him the position as a president.

BTW Zionism is not exactly Jewish, since 'Zion' is the name of the 
temple mount in Jerusalem. The Zionists wanted the Jews to go there, 
even if God (Allah, YHW) told them to go away from there.


TH

[toc] | [prev] | [standalone]

Back to top | Article view | sci.physics

csiph-web