Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]

Groups > sci.physics > #513534 > unrolled thread

Accessing books and articles

Back to article view | Back to sci.physics

Contents

  Accessing books and articles Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-14 09:06 -0500
    Re: Accessing books and articles Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-14 09:16 -0500
    Re: Accessing books and articles Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-08-14 16:33 +0200
      Re: Accessing books and articles Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-14 10:06 -0500
        Re: Accessing books and articles Poutnik <Poutnik4NNTP@gmail.com> - 2015-08-14 17:14 +0200
        Re: Accessing books and articles HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-08-14 11:26 -0400
    Re: Accessing books and articles gilber34 <invalid@invalid.com> - 2015-08-14 13:41 -0500
    Re: Accessing books and articles benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2015-08-14 15:01 -0400
      Re: Accessing books and articles HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-08-15 08:06 -0400
    Re: Accessing books and articles Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-08-14 19:13 +0000
      Re: Accessing books and articles kefischer <emoneyjoe@iglou.com> - 2015-08-14 15:43 -0400
        Re: Accessing books and articles Eteocles Panagakos <eteoclespd@prospernetwork.org> - 2015-08-14 19:51 +0000
          Re: Accessing books and articles Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-14 15:22 -0500
            Re: Accessing books and articles Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-08-14 20:39 +0000
              Re: Accessing books and articles Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2015-08-14 13:48 -0700
                Re: Accessing books and articles Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-08-14 21:34 +0000
                  Re: Accessing books and articles Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-14 16:42 -0500
                    Re: Accessing books and articles Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-08-14 22:03 +0000
                      Re: Accessing books and articles Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-14 17:25 -0500
                        Re: Accessing books and articles Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-14 17:37 -0500
                      Re: Accessing books and articles HVAC <Mr.HVAC@gmail.com> - 2015-08-15 08:50 -0400
              Re: Accessing books and articles Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-14 16:09 -0500
                Re: Accessing books and articles Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-08-14 21:14 +0000
                  Re: Accessing books and articles Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-14 16:33 -0500
          Re: Accessing books and articles Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-15 10:43 +0200
        Re: Accessing books and articles Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-14 15:00 -0500
          Re: Accessing books and articles Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-08-14 20:30 +0000
            Re: Accessing books and articles Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-14 15:46 -0500
              Re: Accessing books and articles Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-08-15 02:04 +0000
                Re: Accessing books and articles Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-14 21:37 -0500
                Re: Accessing books and articles kefischer <emoneyjoe@iglou.com> - 2015-08-14 22:40 -0400
                  Re: Accessing books and articles Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-08-15 03:15 +0000
                    Re: Accessing books and articles kefischer <emoneyjoe@iglou.com> - 2015-08-14 23:57 -0400
                      Re: Accessing books and articles Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-15 12:13 +0200
                        Re: Accessing books and articles kefischer <emoneyjoe@iglou.com> - 2015-08-15 10:38 -0400
                          Re: Accessing books and articles Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-15 16:59 +0200
                    Re: Accessing books and articles Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-15 12:05 +0200
                Re: Accessing books and articles Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-15 11:51 +0200
            Re: Accessing books and articles kefischer <emoneyjoe@iglou.com> - 2015-08-14 18:38 -0400
              Re: Accessing books and articles Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2015-08-14 15:53 -0700
              Re: Accessing books and articles Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-14 18:11 -0500
        Re: Accessing books and articles Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-08-14 20:05 +0000
          Re: Accessing books and articles Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-14 15:10 -0500
      Re: Accessing books and articles Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-14 14:51 -0500
        Re: Accessing books and articles Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-14 15:07 -0500
        Re: Accessing books and articles Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-08-14 20:19 +0000
          Re: Accessing books and articles Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-14 15:37 -0500
            Re: Accessing books and articles Timo <timo@physics.uq.edu.au> - 2015-08-14 16:04 -0700
              Re: Accessing books and articles Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-14 20:05 -0500
                Re: Accessing books and articles Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-08-15 03:23 +0000
                  Re: Accessing books and articles Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-15 10:10 +0200
                  Re: Accessing books and articles Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2015-08-15 07:44 -0500
                Re: Accessing books and articles Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-08-17 01:09 +0200
            Re: Accessing books and articles Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-15 12:34 +0200
        Re: Accessing books and articles Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-08-17 01:05 +0200
      Re: Accessing books and articles Lofty Goat <rlwatkins@gmail.com> - 2015-08-14 18:56 -0500
        Re: Accessing books and articles Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-08-15 00:53 +0000
        Re: Accessing books and articles Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-15 12:41 +0200
        Re: Accessing books and articles "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2015-08-16 13:10 -0700
          Re: Accessing books and articles Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-08-16 21:12 +0000
            Re: Accessing books and articles "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2015-08-16 18:06 -0700
        Re: Should we jail librarians ? ! benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2015-08-17 03:08 -0400
          Re: Should we jail librarians ? ! noel <deletethis@invalin.lan> - 2015-08-18 08:40 +1000
            Re: Should we jail librarians ? ! benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2015-08-17 19:25 -0400
            Re: Should we jail librarians ? ! "A.M" <.m@nsn.s> - 2015-08-18 08:48 -0400
              Re: Should we jail librarians ? ! noel <deletethis@invalin.lan> - 2015-08-19 10:04 +1000
                Re: Should we jail librarians ? ! §ñûhwØ£f <snuhwolf@yahoo.com> - 2015-08-18 19:11 -0500
                Re: Should we jail librarians ? ! "A.M" <.m@nsn.s> - 2015-08-19 12:54 -0400
      Re: Accessing books and articles Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-15 10:39 +0200
    Re: Accessing books and articles Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-08-16 12:04 +0200
      Re: Accessing books and articles Eteocles Panagakos <eteoclespd@prospernetwork.org> - 2015-08-16 11:44 +0000
        Re: Accessing books and articles Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-08-16 15:30 +0200
    Re: Accessing books and articles "T.M. Sommers" <tmsommers2@gmail.com> - 2015-08-16 11:07 -0400
      Re: Accessing books and articles Poutnik <poutnik4nntp@gmail.com> - 2015-08-16 17:53 +0200
      Re: Accessing books and articles Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-08-17 00:44 +0200
    Re: Accessing books and articles Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-08-16 18:27 +0000

Page 4 of 4 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 [4]

#514510

On Sunday, August 16, 2015 at 2:13:16 PM UTC-7, Fabian Russell wrote:
> On Sun, 16 Aug 2015 13:10:16 -0700, nuny@bid.nes wrote:

> >   I wonder how much he PAYS for his internet connection? Does he
> >  think that should be "free" too?
> 
> This is completely non sequitur.  It only demonstrates your pathetic
> failure in basic logic.

  It's the equivalent of charging you a fee for a library card (or a journal membership), you simpleton.

> >   I've often pointed out that the real basis of economics is thermodynamics.
> 
> A stupid assessment.  Economics is based more in human psychology.

  Only if you accept the idea that a thing is worth whatever you can convince someone to pay for it, which is what you have been whining about.

  Leaving that simple-minded assessment behind, I'll remind you that the rest of us have been discussing the real costs of generating and providing access to information.

> But although any schoolgirl is quite familiar with psychic principles,

  "Psychic" principles? Do you go out of your way to write funny stuff like that?

> they are well beyond your expertise. 

  You have no idea what my areas of expertise are.

> >   It still isn't free- it's just averaging the entropy over the group. 
> >  Some pay more than their "fair share" so that others can "freeload".
> 
> Read carefully the following article, then go and seek help for your
> pitiful ineptitude:
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/aug/14/australian-academics-seek-to-challenge-web-of-avarice-in-scientific-publishing

  Nothing to do with public libraries, which is what my immediately preceding comment was about.


  Mark L. Fergerson

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#514575 — Re: Should we jail librarians ? !

On 08/16/2015 06:09 AM, Jeff-Relf.Me wrote:
>
> Bob_Watkins wrote:
>> The closest you can come to "free" information is
>> if you decide, as a group, to pay for it as a group.
>> That's called:
>>
>> [ding, ding, ding, ding]  You guessed it!  A library!
>
> Here's a good library or two:
>
>    rarbg.to/s/MVGroup/
>    rarbg.to/torrents.php?category=41
>    kickass.unblocked.pw/usearch/_A_Search_Term_/?field=time_add&sorder=desc
>
> Copying a file might be "illegal", but it's not "theft";
> it's better than checking out a CD from the library ! ! ?
>
> Should we jail librarians
> and make them return their "ill_gotten gains" ? !
>
> Through luck, or whatever, some can _waste_ money on houses,
> cars, and vacations... So why begrudge those who'd copy files ?

Rolf, you are still an idiot. Copying a file IS theft if the file is 
copyrighted. "RIGHT TO COPY"!  Get the picture? To copy without the 
right to do so is theft pure and simple. Libraries PAY for their copies 
of things. It's the library patrons who get to read, listen to, view, 
whatever, the file without paying for it. Basically the library buys the 
book and you get to READ it, but you never own the book nor have the 
right to even copy it.

The problem that has developed with digital technology is that it has 
become easy to illegally copy things making a perfect copy which then is 
every bit as good as the original. (Note in the past actions like 
recording of records never produced an exact copy, but an inferior one)

This is why to me it is important to monitor copyright laws to insure 
they are used as an enhancement of civilization that ENCOURAGES people 
to produce such materials rather than a tool of greed extending long 
beyond the author's life and making no exceptions for research and 
education. We all die and that means we ALL have a duty to pass on what 
we know to the next generations. That's why there are "fair use" 
exceptions for copyrights etc. There is a fine line here but a line that 
CAN be figured out. In fact many in the "open source" community have 
already figured much of it out!

-- 
         ___           ___           ___            ___
        /\  \         /\  \         /\__\          /\  \
       /::\  \       /::\  \       /::|  |         \:\  \
      /:/\:\  \     /:/\:\  \     /:|:|  |     ___ /::\__\
     /::\~\:\__\   /::\~\:\  \   /:/|:|  |__  /\  /:/\/__/
    /:/\:\ \:|__| /:/\:\ \:\__\ /:/ |:| /\__\ \:\/:/  /
    \:\~\:\/:/  / \:\~\:\ \/__/ \/__|:|/:/  /  \::/  /
     \:\ \::/  /   \:\ \:\__\       |:/:/  /    \/__/
      \:\/:/  /     \:\ \/__/       |::/  /
       \_:/__/       \:\__\         /:/  /
                      \/__/         \/__/

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#514902 — Re: Should we jail librarians ? !

On Mon, 17 Aug 2015 03:08:44 -0400, benj wrote:

> 
> Rolf, you are still an idiot. Copying a file IS theft if the file is
> copyrighted. "RIGHT TO COPY"!  Get the picture? To copy without the
> right to do so is theft pure and simple. 

Actually, no, not so pure and not so simple, don't assume your countries 
laws apply equally everywhere, you see in my country:

1/ Theft implies a criminal offence, a violation of an Act under the 
criminal code, making theft, the stealing of a thing, trade or state 
secret, a "crime" under our criminal code.

2/ Copyright infringement is not under our criminal code, it is covered 
by other legislation, the Telecommunications Act, meaning it is a CIVIL 
wrong, making it a matter for the copyright owner to chase down and sue 
all violators for damages - any "fair use provisions" not withstanding.

Although copyright infringment is wrong and deprives the author (well 
actually nearly everyone BUT the author, since they get sweet fuck all of 
the royalties anyway - the majority goes to managers, production comps 
and so on) of a small part of their income capability, so please do not 
confuse the two, you can not here and since most of this countries laws 
originate out of the westminster legal system, I dare say much of UK and 
maybe even much of europe, call C.I.  "theft".

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#514923 — Re: Should we jail librarians ? !

On 08/17/2015 06:40 PM, noel wrote:
> On Mon, 17 Aug 2015 03:08:44 -0400, benj wrote:
>
>>
>> Rolf, you are still an idiot. Copying a file IS theft if the file is
>> copyrighted. "RIGHT TO COPY"!  Get the picture? To copy without the
>> right to do so is theft pure and simple.
>
> Actually, no, not so pure and not so simple, don't assume your countries
> laws apply equally everywhere, you see in my country:
>
> 1/ Theft implies a criminal offence, a violation of an Act under the
> criminal code, making theft, the stealing of a thing, trade or state
> secret, a "crime" under our criminal code.
>
> 2/ Copyright infringement is not under our criminal code, it is covered
> by other legislation, the Telecommunications Act, meaning it is a CIVIL
> wrong, making it a matter for the copyright owner to chase down and sue
> all violators for damages - any "fair use provisions" not withstanding.
>
> Although copyright infringment is wrong and deprives the author (well
> actually nearly everyone BUT the author, since they get sweet fuck all of
> the royalties anyway - the majority goes to managers, production comps
> and so on) of a small part of their income capability, so please do not
> confuse the two, you can not here and since most of this countries laws
> originate out of the westminster legal system, I dare say much of UK and
> maybe even much of europe, call C.I.  "theft".

Well, you can argue fine points of law but that isn't the point, is it?

Theft as a general word means taking something that does not belong to 
you from someone else if they have not given you permission (sold it or 
gave it to you). Whether it's criminal law or civil law there are acts 
causing damages to the owners and owners have right to seek justice.

How exactly all this is done just depends on the system and doesn't 
change the meaning of what is going on. The points under discussion are 
the big picture and the big picture is how can copyrights encourage the 
kinds of works that move civilization forward? A bunch of people 
"stealing" a file instead of paying for the work clearly discourages 
authors from engaging in the creation of such works. But as you note 
ALSO a bunch of managers, producers, production companies etc. grabbing 
an unfair share also represent a problem.

Again I point out the general principle of copyright laws is NOT to 
guarantee profits for authors and their descendants forever, but rather 
to ENCOURAGE such authors to produce such works. Stopping the "theft" or 
whatever word you want to use by easy digital technology helps do that 
by giving return for the effort. On the other hand my point was that 
when the guarantees of profit become so excessive and finely tuned that 
educational and research "fair use" is denied without fees, then clearly 
the original purpose of copyright laws (namely to encourage research and 
education for the betterment of society) has been subverted.


-- 
         ___           ___           ___            ___
        /\  \         /\  \         /\__\          /\  \
       /::\  \       /::\  \       /::|  |         \:\  \
      /:/\:\  \     /:/\:\  \     /:|:|  |     ___ /::\__\
     /::\~\:\__\   /::\~\:\  \   /:/|:|  |__  /\  /:/\/__/
    /:/\:\ \:|__| /:/\:\ \:\__\ /:/ |:| /\__\ \:\/:/  /
    \:\~\:\/:/  / \:\~\:\ \/__/ \/__|:|/:/  /  \::/  /
     \:\ \::/  /   \:\ \:\__\       |:/:/  /    \/__/
      \:\/:/  /     \:\ \/__/       |::/  /
       \_:/__/       \:\__\         /:/  /
                      \/__/         \/__/

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#515026 — Re: Should we jail librarians ? !

On 2015-08-17 6:40 PM, noel wrote:
> On Mon, 17 Aug 2015 03:08:44 -0400, benj wrote:
> 
>>
>> Rolf, you are still an idiot. Copying a file IS theft if the file is
>> copyrighted. "RIGHT TO COPY"!  Get the picture? To copy without the
>> right to do so is theft pure and simple. 
> 
> Actually, no, not so pure and not so simple, don't assume your countries 
> laws apply equally everywhere, you see in my country:
> 
> 1/ Theft implies a criminal offence, a violation of an Act under the 
> criminal code, making theft, the stealing of a thing, trade or state 
> secret, a "crime" under our criminal code.
> 
> 2/ Copyright infringement is not under our criminal code, it is covered 
> by other legislation, the Telecommunications Act, meaning it is a CIVIL 
> wrong, making it a matter for the copyright owner to chase down and sue 
> all violators for damages - any "fair use provisions" not withstanding.
> 
> Although copyright infringment is wrong and deprives the author (well 
> actually nearly everyone BUT the author, since they get sweet fuck all of 
> the royalties anyway - the majority goes to managers, production comps 
> and so on) of a small part of their income capability, so please do not 
> confuse the two, you can not here and since most of this countries laws 
> originate out of the westminster legal system, I dare say much of UK and 
> maybe even much of europe, call C.I.  "theft".

It really is repulsive how little authors actually make from their
craft. If you're a well-known artist of any kind, it really is to your
advantage to self-publish. Of course, if no one knows who you are, it
might be better to make a name for yourself first with the marketing of
a publisher. Most of your profits will go to paying their salaries, but
once you become famous, you can change your way of operating entirely.

-- 
A.M

Hillary for Prison 2016!!

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#515139 — Re: Should we jail librarians ? !

On Tue, 18 Aug 2015 08:48:29 -0400, A.M wrote:

> 
> It really is repulsive how little authors actually make from their
> craft. If you're a well-known artist of any kind, it really is to your
> advantage to self-publish. Of course, if no one knows who you are, it
> might be better to make a name for yourself first with the marketing of
> a publisher. Most of your profits will go to paying their salaries, but
> once you become famous, you can change your way of operating entirely.

Exactly!  but how many do, how many are blinded by their managers self 
interest bullshit that make it seems the world will fall apart if tehy go 
it alone, and so just end up going with the flow maintaining status quo.
sadly.. most...

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#515149 — Re: Should we jail librarians ? !

noel wrote:
> On Tue, 18 Aug 2015 08:48:29 -0400, A.M wrote:
> 
>> It really is repulsive how little authors actually make from their
>> craft. If you're a well-known artist of any kind, it really is to your
>> advantage to self-publish. Of course, if no one knows who you are, it
>> might be better to make a name for yourself first with the marketing of
>> a publisher. Most of your profits will go to paying their salaries, but
>> once you become famous, you can change your way of operating entirely.
> 
> Exactly!  but how many do, how many are blinded by their managers self 
> interest bullshit that make it seems the world will fall apart if tehy go 
> it alone, and so just end up going with the flow maintaining status quo.
> sadly.. most...

I rote som storeez! They is about werwolfs :)

http://www.snuhwolf.9f.com/cgi-bin/blog

Xposted from AFN.

-- 
http://signon.org/sign/protect-americas-wolves
www.snuhwolf.9f.com|www.savewolves.org
    _____  ____  ____ __ /\_/\ __      _ ______   _____
   / __/ |/ / / / / // // . . \\ \ |\ | / __ \ \  \  __\
  _\ \/    / /_/ / _  / \     / \ \| \| \ \_\ \ \__\  _\
/___/_/|_/\____/_//_/   \_@_/   \__|\__|\____/\____\_\

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#515238 — Re: Should we jail librarians ? !

On 2015-08-18 8:04 PM, noel wrote:
> On Tue, 18 Aug 2015 08:48:29 -0400, A.M wrote:
> 
>>
>> It really is repulsive how little authors actually make from their
>> craft. If you're a well-known artist of any kind, it really is to your
>> advantage to self-publish. Of course, if no one knows who you are, it
>> might be better to make a name for yourself first with the marketing of
>> a publisher. Most of your profits will go to paying their salaries, but
>> once you become famous, you can change your way of operating entirely.
> 
> Exactly!  but how many do, how many are blinded by their managers self 
> interest bullshit that make it seems the world will fall apart if tehy go 
> it alone, and so just end up going with the flow maintaining status quo.
> sadly.. most...

As an author, I am unknown and probably will remain that way for my
entire life. Knowing that there was no way that I was ever going to make
any kind of real money from the craft, I was ready and willing to just
write stories and give them away. After all, I was more interested in
fame (no matter how little of it) than fortune anyway. My wife pushed me
into seeking compensation which is why I published it, however I
insisted on self-publishing for two reasons: 1) I retain all rights, 2)
if there are profits of any kind, I get the largest amount of them. I
know that self-publishing is not seen as favourably as being published.
After all, self-publishing tends to suggest that the book itself is not
that great because it wasn't good enough to be picked up by a company.
Meanwhile, I never sought the interest of a publisher. Whether I end up
being the greatest author who ever lived or some hack, it feels good to
know that I am not subservient to anyone else. I would absolutely love
for most talented musicians to take this route as well, especially since
there are many excellent web sites which will market their music just as
effectively as any publisher would, people buy digital copies of music
instead of physical ones and they get to keep all of their royalties.
Thom Yorke's been convinced, I can only hope others see how awful the
current system is and move away from it.


-- 
A.M

Hillary for Prison 2016!!

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#513813

Dne 14/08/2015 v 21:13 Fabian Russell napsal(a):
> On Fri, 14 Aug 2015 09:06:25 -0500, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> 
>>
>> Access to a university library is almost always free and does not 
>> require a campus ID. Once inside, you have free access to any of the 
>> shelved materials.
>>
> 
> You are advocating a giant step backward into the idiocy of the past.
> 
> All information, bar none, should be accessible from the comfort
> of my desktop.  That's the whole fscking point of the so-called
> INTERNET (the information superhighway, remember?). 

However I like everything free, I do not agree.

What does make you think
you have right for free access to all information ?

It is the right of information holder,
if it is provided at all, and if free or not.
( unless access is granted by law )

It does not depend on existence of internet.

If there are roads to gates of all buildings,
should it grant access to all things inside ?

Some building holders grant such access, if public,
some restricted one, some none at all.

It is on them, not on visitors.

-- 
Poutnik ( the Czech word for a wanderer )

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#514183

[F'up2 sci.physics, please set yourself next time.]

Odd Bodkin wrote:

> I personally have bought a fair number of books,

I have not.  Fortunately, my books on science so far have been presents, but 
in most cases I wished for them in some way.

There is a caveat, though: Books are not peer-reviewed as intensively (if at 
all), can be oversimplifying in order to reach a wider audience, and the 
knowledge they convey can be outdated.

> but I've never bought an article or a journal subscription.

Me neither, yet.  But I have registered at some sites for free which gives 
you limited access.  To mention two of them:

<http://www.aps.org/> (some articles you get for free even without 
registration)

<http://www.sciencedirect.com/>

> Nor do I need to.

Sometimes it would come in handy (library access aside, there are articles 
that are only available with subscription), but much of the scientific work 
(on physics) is available online for free, also thanks to institutes and 
individuals that are publishing for free, and Google Scholar that allows one 
to find them.

<http://scholar.google.com/>

And I cannot stress enough the importance of the publication of physics 
lectures, such as 

<http://www.feynmanlectures.caltech.edu/>
<https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=susskind+lectures>
<https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=krauss+lectures>

for free.

> Wherever you live, google the location of the nearest universities. 
> Chances are, there is one within a 1-2 hr drive in the US, and if you 
> live in a moderate sized city in the US (Lincoln NE, Salt Lake City UT, 
> Boise ID, Tampa FL, Baton Rouge LA) you will have at least one and 
> probably more than one university right there.
> 
> Access to a university library is almost always free and does not 
> require a campus ID. Once inside, you have free access to any of the 
> shelved materials. In most cases, you will also have access to a lot of 
> the digital collection as well, if you only go to the counter and ask 
> for a guest account.

You are projecting.  It is not always so easy for people to get to “the 
nearest university”, for a variety of reasons.  Not every (university) 
library is equally equipped.  And “almost always” has “almost” in it.

So much the better that we have the Web and resources like I mentioned 
above.  Instant knowledge at one’s fingertips, almost everywhere on the 
planet.

> Lack of interest is not to be equated with lack of access.

That much is true.


PointedEars
-- 
“Science is empirical: knowing the answer means nothing;
 testing your knowledge means everything.”
   —Dr. Lawrence M. Krauss, theoretical physicist,
    in “A Universe from Nothing” (2009)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#514198

Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:

> [F'up2 sci.physics, please set yourself next time.]
> 
> Odd Bodkin wrote:
> 
>> I personally have bought a fair number of books,
> 
> I have not.  Fortunately, my books on science so far have been presents,
> but in most cases I wished for them in some way.

Enjoyable.

> There is a caveat, though: Books are not peer-reviewed as intensively
> (if at all), can be oversimplifying in order to reach a wider audience,
> and the knowledge they convey can be outdated.

Then you must be more intelligent than books.

>> but I've never bought an article or a journal subscription.
> 
> Me neither, yet.  But I have registered at some sites for free which
> gives you limited access.  To mention two of them:

You don't need to do that. You just have to be scientist or work Somewhere 
in Science or about Science, then that Institution will automatically pay 
the expenses for you and everybody affiliated as such.

It reveals you are not even an amateur in Science. Likely you are just a 
half-engineer. Rotchm and Kefischer are more intelligent than you.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#514242

Eteocles Panagakos amok-crossposted:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Liar.

> Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>> [F'up2 sci.physics, please set yourself next time.]
>> Odd Bodkin wrote:
>>> I personally have bought a fair number of books,
>> I have not.  Fortunately, my books on science so far have been presents,
>> but in most cases I wished for them in some way.
> 
> Enjoyable.

Yes, it is good if you have people around you who know you so well.
 
>> There is a caveat, though: Books are not peer-reviewed as intensively
>> (if at all), can be oversimplifying in order to reach a wider audience,
>> and the knowledge they convey can be outdated.
> 
> Then you must be more intelligent than books.

Given that books have no intelligence at all, this is a truism.
 
>>> but I've never bought an article or a journal subscription.
>> Me neither, yet.  But I have registered at some sites for free which
>> gives you limited access.  To mention two of them:
> 
> You don't need to do that. You just have to be scientist or work Somewhere
> in Science or about Science, then that Institution will automatically pay
> the expenses for you and everybody affiliated as such.

That is correct.  However, AISB, physics is not my field of research, so 
this does not apply to physics journals.  Neither is it that of the other 
characters here – hence “Odd’s” recommendation –, with few exceptions that
I find it unlikely would include you, 'nym-shifting troll.
 
> It reveals you are not even an amateur in Science. Likely you are just a
> half-engineer. Rotchm and Kefischer are more intelligent than you.

It is probable as there are multiple ways of intelligence.  Scientific, 
inquiring, intelligence, however, does not appear to be their forté given 
their misconceptions about all things science, and not yours.


F'up2 where it belongs

PointedEars
-- 
“Science is empirical: knowing the answer means nothing;
 testing your knowledge means everything.”
   —Dr. Lawrence M. Krauss, theoretical physicist,
    in “A Universe from Nothing” (2009)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#514306

On 8/14/2015 10:06 AM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
> A number of people here have complained that it is hard to get access to
> professional physics articles in journals or books. Many have also
> complained that it is too expensive to buy them.
>
> I personally have bought a fair number of books, but I've never bought
> an article or a journal subscription. Nor do I need to.

Haven't you people ever heard of arXiv.org?

-- 
T.M. Sommers -- ab2sb

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#514310

Dne 16/08/2015 v 17:07 T.M. Sommers napsal(a):
> On 8/14/2015 10:06 AM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>> A number of people here have complained that it is hard to get access to
>> professional physics articles in journals or books. Many have also
>> complained that it is too expensive to buy them.
>>
>> I personally have bought a fair number of books, but I've never bought
>> an article or a journal subscription. Nor do I need to.
> 
> Haven't you people ever heard of arXiv.org?
> 
Yes. I have realized I am even registered.

But I do not search for articles there. I am usually Googling for topic
or book/article Title and go where the Google takes me. If I am
registered there a/o if I can download article/ebook for free,
it is great.

Or, I follow Wikipedia references,
but the biblio codes are challenge.

-- 
Poutnik ( the Czech word for a wanderer )

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#514489

[F'up2 <news:sci.physics>]

T.M. Sommers wrote:

> On 8/14/2015 10:06 AM, Odd Bodkin wrote:
>> A number of people here have complained that it is hard to get access to
>> professional physics articles in journals or books. Many have also
>> complained that it is too expensive to buy them.
>>
>> I personally have bought a fair number of books, but I've never bought
>> an article or a journal subscription. Nor do I need to.
> 
> Haven't you people ever heard of arXiv.org?

No.  (/Cave logicum./)

(Haven’t you heard of Followup-To?


ISTM there are a few disadvantages of arXiv.org compared to reading articles 
in journals or going to a local university library for textbooks:

- It is only the collection of one university library (of Cornell 
  University, Ithaca, New York, USA), and you cannot order material from 
  other libraries.

- “[They] accept submissions only from registered authors.”

- “Submitters must grant arXiv.org a non-exclusive and irrevocable license 
  to distribute or certify that the work is available under another license 
  that conveys these rights.”  So authors who do not want to publish under
  those conditions will not publish on arXiv.org.

- Papers published on arXiv.org have not necessarily undergone peer review.

- Papers may be replaced at any time, and authors are encouraged to do so:
  <http://arxiv.org/help/submit#replace>

That aside, you do not need to know arXiv.org if you know Google Scholar; 
many search results there, and references in Wikipedia articles, will link 
to arXiv.org.


PointedEars
-- 
“Science is empirical: knowing the answer means nothing;
 testing your knowledge means everything.”
   —Dr. Lawrence M. Krauss, theoretical physicist,
    in “A Universe from Nothing” (2009)

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#514390

On Fri, 14 Aug 2015 09:06:25 -0500, Odd Bodkin wrote:

> 
> I really don't think there is a valid excuse to complain about lack of 
> access, unless you are disabled or otherwise confined against your will.
>

That's your opinion, which has been formulated purely as an outsider and
ignorant observer from afar.

But those directly in the midst of scientific development have a
different view:

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/aug/14/australian-academics-seek-to-challenge-web-of-avarice-in-scientific-publishing

To all those who disagree and claim "free enterprise" and that "everything
has to be paid for" I will only reply:

Shut yout fat, stupid mouths and go to the hell of idiots.

  

[toc] | [prev] | [standalone]

Page 4 of 4 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 [4]

Back to top | Article view | sci.physics

csiph-web