Re: rolling dice is not random?

From	Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address>
Newsgroups	alt.talk.creationism, alt.atheism, alt.philosophy, sci.logic, sci.physics, sci.skeptic
Subject	Re: rolling dice is not random?
Date	2015-10-22 12:04 +1100
Message-ID	<d8qr0pFbfq7U1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References	<8s5mn9.59b.19.1@news.alt.net> <d8qirfF9n3aU1@mid.individual.net> <8s5v6h.m5l.19.1@news.alt.net>

Cross-posted to 6 groups.

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On 22/10/2015 11:12 AM, Dale wrote:
> On 10/21/2015 06:45 PM, Sylvia Else wrote:
>> On 22/10/2015 8:47 AM, Dale wrote:
>>> assuming determinism means nothing is random, everything is bounded by
>>> cause and effect
>>
>> Probably - but who is assuming determinism?
>>
>> What point are you actually trying to make here?
>>
>> Sylvia.
>
> maybe mutations can't be random

Every indication we have is that quantum mechanical processes are 
random. That leaks into evolution by such processes as:

a) Cosmic rays arriving at random and impacting DNA molecules.

b) Radioactive decay in the environment and tissues surrounding DNA 
molecules randomly emitting particles that interact with DNA.

c) Radioactive decay within DNA when it happens to contain an unstable 
isotope of an atom.

d) Transcription errors when the wrong chemical reaction occurs because, 
although it is unlikely, it is not impossible.

And who knows how many others.

Given the clear evidence that DNA dictates the form of a creature, it's 
inevitable that these random changes to the DNA will cause mutations, 
and it's equally inevitable that some of these mutations will be beneficial.

To bring God into the picture, you have to have Him either controlling 
the quantum mechanical processes, or actively removing the beneficial 
mutations in favour of specific changes He wants. That's a stretch, 
given that it seems clear that things would happen the way they are even 
in the absence of His intervention.

Sylvia

Thread

rolling dice is not random? Dale <dale@dalekelly.org> - 2015-10-21 17:47 -0400
  Re: rolling dice is not random? Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-10-21 22:13 +0000
  Re: rolling dice is not random? jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-10-21 22:22 +0000
    Re: rolling dice is not random? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-10-21 17:37 -0500
      Re: rolling dice is not random? jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-10-21 22:54 +0000
        Re: rolling dice is not random? Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-10-21 23:19 +0000
          Re: rolling dice is not random? jimp@specsol.spam.sux.com - 2015-10-21 23:34 +0000
          Re: rolling dice is not random? noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2015-10-21 17:45 -0700
            Re: rolling dice is not random? Fabian Russell <root@localhost.localdomain> - 2015-10-22 04:14 +0000
  Re: rolling dice is not random? Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-10-22 09:45 +1100
    Re: rolling dice is not random? Dale <dale@dalekelly.org> - 2015-10-21 20:12 -0400
      Re: rolling dice is not random? Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-10-22 12:04 +1100
        Re: rolling dice is not random? Dale <dale@dalekelly.org> - 2015-10-21 22:21 -0400
          Re: "Life" is virtual, not real. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-10-22 18:56 +1100
            Re: "Life" is virtual, not real. "Andrew" <andrew.321remov@usa.net> - 2015-10-22 03:09 -0700
            Re: "Life" is virtual, not real. Dale <dale@dalekelly.org> - 2015-10-22 16:36 -0400
              Re: "Life" is virtual, not real. Olrik <olrik666@gmail.com> - 2015-10-22 23:49 -0400
            Re: The Ensemble Interpretation. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-10-23 11:32 +1100
              Re: The Ensemble Interpretation. Dale <dale@dalekelly.org> - 2015-10-22 20:40 -0400
                Re: The Ensemble Interpretation. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-10-23 11:50 +1100
            Re: The Ensemble Interpretation. noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2015-10-23 17:33 -0700
          Re: "Life" is virtual, not real. The BORG <borg@future.com> - 2015-10-24 15:27 +0100
            Re: "Life" is virtual, not real. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-10-25 13:54 +1100
  Re: rolling dice is not random? bilgat@m.nu - 2015-10-21 18:46 -0500
    Re: rolling dice is not random? Dale <dale@dalekelly.org> - 2015-10-21 20:13 -0400
  Re: rolling dice is not random? Dale <dale@dalekelly.org> - 2015-10-21 22:48 -0400
    Re: rolling dice is not random? John Ritson <j.ritson@hotmail.co.uk> - 2015-10-22 09:57 +0100
      Re: rolling dice is not random? Dale <dale@dalekelly.org> - 2015-10-22 16:32 -0400
        Re: rolling dice is not random? John Ritson <j.ritson@hotmail.co.uk> - 2015-10-22 22:53 +0100
          Re: rolling dice is not random? Dale <dale@dalekelly.org> - 2015-10-22 19:36 -0400
            Re: rolling dice is not random? John Ritson <j.ritson@hotmail.co.uk> - 2015-10-23 10:26 +0100
              Re: rolling dice is not random? "Kadaitcha Man" <nospam.nospam.nospam@sci.research.careers.i.have.shorter.stature.can.i.grow.taller> - 2015-10-24 09:56 +0000
          Re: rolling dice is not random? Sam Wormley <swormley1@gmail.com> - 2015-10-22 19:20 -0500
            Re: rolling dice is not random? R Kym Horsell <kym@kymhorsell.com> - 2015-10-23 00:38 +0000
  Re: rolling dice is not random? Hans Wussel <hanswussel@openmailbox.org> - 2015-10-22 19:40 +0200
    Re: rolling dice is not random? Dale <dale@dalekelly.org> - 2015-10-22 16:38 -0400
      Re: rolling dice is not random? "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2015-10-22 14:21 -0700
      Re: rolling dice is not random? Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2015-10-22 15:41 -0700
        Re: rolling dice is not random? "Raymond Luxury Yacht" <invalid@example.com> - 2015-10-22 19:37 -0700
        Re: rolling dice is not random? benj <nobody@gmail.com> - 2015-10-22 22:58 -0400
          Re: rolling dice is not random? Mahipal <mahipal7638@gmail.com> - 2015-10-23 09:51 -0700
  Re: rolling dice is not random? Double-A <double-a3@hush.com> - 2015-10-24 14:56 -0700
  Re: rolling dice is not random? "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2015-10-26 13:13 -0700
    Re: rolling dice is not random? Double-A <double-a3@hush.com> - 2015-10-26 15:31 -0700
      pi for .. those guys noTthaTguY <abu.kuanysh05@gmail.com> - 2015-10-27 12:29 -0700
      Re: rolling dice is not random? "reber g=emc^2" <herbertglazier0@gmail.com> - 2015-10-27 12:45 -0700

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