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rolling dice is not random?

Cross-posted to 6 groups.

Followups directed to: alt.talk.creationism, alt.atheism, alt.philosophy, sci.logic, sci.physics, sci.skeptic

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assuming determinism means nothing is random, everything is bounded by 
cause and effect

to roll dice they start in a particular position in the hand, they exit 
the hand in a position, their path to the environment to the table 
bounds them to cause and effect physics, their landing and final roll on 
the table is bound by the environmental cause and effect physics

someone ought to construct a physical dice rolling/receiving apparatus 
to prove the point, rolling dice is too often used as an excuse for 
random existence

the only empirical evidence of randomness in quantum physics is the 
Casimir Effect, which does not create a true vacuum for virtual 
particles, zero-point energy, etc. to be observed

things like Faraday Cages aren't true vacuums
even the apparatus introduces something else into a vacuum
things like neutrinos can enter the apparatus and attempted vacuum
probably more stuff from more scholarly people

treating something as random, or assuming it is effectively random, does 
not make it random, secondly does not make randomness part of determinism

before you can address that something is random, you have to address 
whether random exists

by deduction, if random exists then random does whatever

there is no inductive reasoning, if something appears random apply 
statistically designed experiments with all the appropriate control 
variables to something indescribable by statistics until you agree that 
randomness cannot be described statistically or out of stubbornness 
devote your life to the cause

note, all assumes logic, if illogic exists then random may do many 
things, and many things may do many things


-- 
Dale
http://www.dalekelly.org

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rolling dice is not random? Dale <dale@dalekelly.org> - 2015-10-21 17:47 -0400
  Re: rolling dice is not random? Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-10-22 09:45 +1100
    Re: rolling dice is not random? Dale <dale@dalekelly.org> - 2015-10-21 20:12 -0400
      Re: rolling dice is not random? Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-10-22 12:04 +1100
        Re: rolling dice is not random? Dale <dale@dalekelly.org> - 2015-10-21 22:21 -0400
          Re: "Life" is virtual, not real. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-10-22 18:56 +1100
            Re: "Life" is virtual, not real. "Andrew" <andrew.321remov@usa.net> - 2015-10-22 03:09 -0700
            Re: "Life" is virtual, not real. Dale <dale@dalekelly.org> - 2015-10-22 16:36 -0400
              Re: "Life" is virtual, not real. Olrik <olrik666@gmail.com> - 2015-10-22 23:49 -0400
            Re: The Ensemble Interpretation. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-10-23 11:32 +1100
              Re: The Ensemble Interpretation. Dale <dale@dalekelly.org> - 2015-10-22 20:40 -0400
                Re: The Ensemble Interpretation. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-10-23 11:50 +1100
              Re: Quantum Mechanics is statistical, not real. lucaspa <lucaspa@optonline.net> - 2015-10-24 11:21 -0700
              Re: Quantum Mechanics is statistical, not real. lucaspa <lucaspa@optonline.net> - 2015-10-24 11:34 -0700
          Re: "Life" is virtual, not real. The BORG <borg@future.com> - 2015-10-24 15:27 +0100
            Re: "Life" is virtual, not real. lucaspa <lucaspa@optonline.net> - 2015-10-24 11:13 -0700
            Re: "Life" is virtual, not real. Sylvia Else <sylvia@not.at.this.address> - 2015-10-25 13:54 +1100
        Re: rolling dice is not random? lucaspa <lucaspa@optonline.net> - 2015-10-23 12:04 -0700
        Re: rolling dice is not random? lucaspa <lucaspa@optonline.net> - 2015-10-23 12:07 -0700
      Re: rolling dice is not random? lucaspa <lucaspa@optonline.net> - 2015-10-23 11:54 -0700
  Re: rolling dice is not random? bilgat@m.nu - 2015-10-21 18:46 -0500
    Re: rolling dice is not random? Dale <dale@dalekelly.org> - 2015-10-21 20:13 -0400
  Re: rolling dice is not random? Dale <dale@dalekelly.org> - 2015-10-21 22:48 -0400
    Re: rolling dice is not random? John Ritson <j.ritson@hotmail.co.uk> - 2015-10-22 09:57 +0100
      Re: rolling dice is not random? Dale <dale@dalekelly.org> - 2015-10-22 16:32 -0400
        Re: rolling dice is not random? John Ritson <j.ritson@hotmail.co.uk> - 2015-10-22 22:53 +0100
          Re: rolling dice is not random? Dale <dale@dalekelly.org> - 2015-10-22 19:36 -0400
            Re: rolling dice is not random? John Ritson <j.ritson@hotmail.co.uk> - 2015-10-23 10:26 +0100
              Re: rolling dice is not random? "Kadaitcha Man" <nospam.nospam.nospam@sci.research.careers.i.have.shorter.stature.can.i.grow.taller> - 2015-10-24 09:56 +0000
  Re: rolling dice is not random? Hans Wussel <hanswussel@openmailbox.org> - 2015-10-22 19:40 +0200
    Re: rolling dice is not random? Dale <dale@dalekelly.org> - 2015-10-22 16:38 -0400
  Re: rolling dice is not random? lucaspa <lucaspa@optonline.net> - 2015-10-23 11:42 -0700

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