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Re: How does gravity slow time?

From moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney)
Newsgroups sci.physics.relativity
Subject Re: How does gravity slow time?
Date 2018-12-18 04:50 +0000
Organization The World : www.TheWorld.com : Since 1989
Message-ID <pv9uas$50d$2@pcls7.std.com> (permalink)
References <9a5ba2e7-5755-47d9-bf35-d0f9c1881c39@googlegroups.com> <a3542a0e-c352-4065-b51f-460c09eba53d@googlegroups.com> <a4954216-2188-481f-b2a5-f843913d142d@googlegroups.com> <pv8rqr$od4$2@pcls7.std.com> <c479f1fa-5dc1-418d-aefe-34935b55f47f@googlegroups.com>

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kenseto <setoken@att.net> writes:

>On Monday, December 17, 2018 at 2:01:49 PM UTC-5, Michael Moroney wrote:
>> kenseto <setoken@att.net> writes:
>> 
>> >The LT agrees with what I said. A clock second on a moving clock is 
>> >corresponded to gamma seconds on the observer's clock.
>> 
>> And, according to an observer moving along with the moving clock, a clock 
>> second on the first clock corresponds to gamma seconds on the moving clock.

>No moron there is no reciprocity between relative clocks......clcoks in 
>relative motion accumulate clock seconds at different rates.

Maybe in your failed Model Mechanics, but definitely not so in SR.

>> > This  
>> >means that a clock second of absolute time on a movie clock contains 
>> >gamma seconds of absolute time on the observer's clock.
>> 
>> No, it doesn't, since A sees B's clock as running slow, and B sees A's
>> clock as running slow.

>This is a faulty statement.

Your assertion is not a valid argument.

> The proper statements are as follows:

Your assertion is not a valid argument.

>1a. A predicts B accumulates clock seconds at a slower rate by a factor of 1/gamma_ab.
>1b. A predicts B accumulates clock seconds at a faster rate by a factor of gamma_ab.

A can predict whatever he wamts. It's irrelevant, since we're talking 
about science here, not Tarot cards. What matters is what A measures,
not what A predicts.

>ONLY ONE OF THE ABOVE STATEMENTS IS CORRECT.

Neither are, since, in SR, we're talking about how A observes and measures 
B's clock.

>2a. B predicts A accumulates clock seconds at a slower rate by a factor of 1/gamma_ab.
>2b. B predicts A accumulates clock seconds at a faster rate by a factor of gamma_ab.

It doesn't matter if B can tell fortunes with Tarot cards either. Science
is all about observation and measurement, not Ouija boards.

>ONLY ONE OF THE ABOVE STATEMENTS IS CORRECT.

No, both are wrong since, once again, this is how B observes/measures A's
clock.

>> There is no way to define this in the terms of some artificial "absolute
>> time" where both statements are true, but that is irrelevant, since it is
>> an appearance only. It's like if we stand next to each other and we see
>> each other as normal height.  Then we walk apart. I now see you as small,
>> and you now see me as small. Neither one of us shrank, we are both the
>> same height.  You have been told this many, many times, yet you insist on continuing to
>> make the same mistakes. Why?

>Moron, proper time is absolute time.

Wrong. 'Proper time' has an explicit definition in SR, and it does not
involve crap you made up like 'absolute time'. Go look it up.

> Clocks in relative motion accumulate clock seconds at different rates. 

Your broken Model Mechanics can address only two observers/clocks. If A
measures B's clock as running slow by gamma, then B measures A's clock as
running fast, by 1/gamma.  When I gave you my 3 rockets leaving a common
point gedanken, you just ran away. SR can handle it just fine.

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Thread

How does gravity slow time? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-12-15 15:22 -0800
  Re: How does gravity slow time? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-12-16 00:30 +0100
    Re: How does gravity slow time? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-12-16 06:04 -0800
      Re: How does gravity slow time? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2018-12-16 15:28 +0100
  Re: How does gravity slow time? alsor@interia.pl - 2018-12-15 15:44 -0800
    Re: How does gravity slow time? mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-12-15 16:17 -0800
  Re: How does gravity slow time? Scott Richman <sunn@idhnonow.iv> - 2018-12-16 01:02 +0000
    Re: How does gravity slow time? mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-12-16 20:14 -0800
  Re: How does gravity slow time? Alan Folmsbee <omnilobe@gmail.com> - 2018-12-15 20:54 -0800
  Re: How does gravity slow time? Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-12-16 00:05 -0600
    Re: How does gravity slow time? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-12-16 06:16 -0800
      Re: How does gravity slow time? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-12-16 14:22 +0000
    Re: How does gravity slow time? alsor@interia.pl - 2018-12-16 13:08 -0800
      Re: How does gravity slow time? mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-12-16 13:56 -0800
        Re: How does gravity slow time? alsor@interia.pl - 2018-12-16 14:29 -0800
          Re: How does gravity slow time? mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-12-16 14:32 -0800
    Re: How does gravity slow time? Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-12-16 19:36 -0800
      Re: How does gravity slow time? Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-12-16 23:57 -0600
        Re: How does gravity slow time? "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-12-16 22:08 -0800
        Re: How does gravity slow time? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-12-17 05:58 -0800
        Re: How does gravity slow time? Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-12-17 10:29 -0800
          Re: How does gravity slow time? Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-12-20 20:42 -0600
            Re: How does gravity slow time? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-12-21 06:30 -0800
  Re: How does gravity slow time? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-12-16 06:15 +0000
    Re: How does gravity slow time? "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-12-16 06:14 -0800
    Re: How does gravity slow time? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-12-16 06:17 -0800
      Re: How does gravity slow time? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-12-16 14:26 +0000
        Re: How does gravity slow time? Prokaryotic Caspase Homolog <prokaryotic.caspase.homolog@gmail.com> - 2018-12-16 14:30 -0800
      Re: How does gravity slow time? "Dono," <sa_ge@comcast.net> - 2018-12-16 06:27 -0800
  How does gravity slow time? "David (Kronos Prime) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2018-12-16 09:22 -0800
    Re: How does gravity slow time? mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-12-16 11:58 -0800
  Re: How does gravity slow time? JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-12-16 14:25 -0800
    Re: How does gravity slow time? alsor@interia.pl - 2018-12-16 14:44 -0800
      Re: How does gravity slow time? mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-12-16 15:21 -0800
      Re: How does gravity slow time? JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-12-16 15:24 -0800
        Re: How does gravity slow time? alsor@interia.pl - 2018-12-16 16:05 -0800
          Re: How does gravity slow time? JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-12-17 01:14 -0800
            Re: How does gravity slow time? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-12-17 06:43 -0800
            Re: How does gravity slow time? alsor@interia.pl - 2018-12-17 09:52 -0800
              Re: How does gravity slow time? JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-12-17 11:53 -0800
                Re: How does gravity slow time? Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2018-12-17 14:55 -0600
                Re: How does gravity slow time? JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-12-17 15:41 -0800
                Re: How does gravity slow time? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-12-17 23:32 -0800
                Re: How does gravity slow time? mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-12-17 17:21 -0800
                Re: How does gravity slow time? alsor@interia.pl - 2018-12-18 08:47 -0800
                Re: How does gravity slow time? JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-12-19 14:04 -0800
                Re: How does gravity slow time? mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-12-19 14:13 -0800
                Re: How does gravity slow time? alsor@interia.pl - 2018-12-20 13:36 -0800
                Re: How does gravity slow time? mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-12-20 14:43 -0800
                Re: How does gravity slow time? Scott Richman <sunn@idhnonow.iv> - 2018-12-20 23:46 +0000
                Re: How does gravity slow time? mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-12-20 16:31 -0800
                Re: How does gravity slow time? Scott Richman <sunn@idhnonow.iv> - 2018-12-21 13:56 +0000
    Re: How does gravity slow time? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-12-17 06:58 -0800
      Re: How does gravity slow time? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-12-17 17:47 +0000
        Re: How does gravity slow time? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-12-17 14:41 -0800
          Re: How does gravity slow time? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-12-18 02:23 +0000
            Re: How does gravity slow time? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-12-18 06:13 -0800
              Re: How does gravity slow time? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-12-19 14:17 +0000
                Re: How does gravity slow time? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-12-19 07:06 -0800
                Re: How does gravity slow time? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-12-19 15:18 +0000
                Re: How does gravity slow time? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-12-19 19:00 +0000
                Re: How does gravity slow time? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-12-19 13:16 -0800
                Re: How does gravity slow time? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-12-20 02:35 +0000
                Re: How does gravity slow time? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-12-20 07:24 -0800
                Re: How does gravity slow time? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-12-20 15:48 +0000
                Re: How does gravity slow time? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-12-20 13:26 -0800
                Re: How does gravity slow time? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-12-20 22:53 +0000
                Re: How does gravity slow time? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-12-19 19:00 +0000
          Re: How does gravity slow time? Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2018-12-19 14:17 +0000
            Re: How does gravity slow time? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-12-19 06:21 -0800
      Re: How does gravity slow time? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-12-17 19:01 +0000
        Re: How does gravity slow time? mitchrae3323@gmail.com - 2018-12-17 11:40 -0800
        Re: How does gravity slow time? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-12-17 11:44 -0800
        Re: How does gravity slow time? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-12-17 15:17 -0800
          Re: How does gravity slow time? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-12-18 04:50 +0000
            Re: How does gravity slow time? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-12-18 07:27 -0800
      Re: How does gravity slow time? JanPB <filmart@gmail.com> - 2018-12-17 11:55 -0800
  Re: How does gravity slow time? Helmut Wabnig <hwabnig@.- --- -.dotat> - 2018-12-17 08:21 +0100
    Re: How does gravity slow time? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-12-17 06:15 -0800
      Re: How does gravity slow time? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-12-17 18:49 +0000
        Re: How does gravity slow time? Koobee Wublee <koobee.wublee@gmail.com> - 2018-12-17 12:18 -0800
        Re: How does gravity slow time? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-12-17 15:00 -0800
          Re: How does gravity slow time? moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2018-12-18 04:24 +0000
            Re: How does gravity slow time? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2018-12-17 23:35 -0800
            Re: How does gravity slow time? kenseto <setoken@att.net> - 2018-12-18 06:57 -0800

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