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Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #369999
| From | Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | sci.physics.relativity |
| Subject | Re: Why is the universe 13.8 milliards years old ? |
| Date | 2015-11-14 19:34 +0100 |
| Organization | PointedEars Software (PES) |
| Message-ID | <3966362.vosMEtJVS7@PointedEars.de> (permalink) |
| References | (7 earlier) <n21m5b$pj2$4@speranza.aioe.org> <n24jmv$qq2$1@news.albasani.net> <n25bdp$oo8$1@speranza.aioe.org> <1750793.4Ml76ff0Xg@PointedEars.de> <n27omr$jpi$1@speranza.aioe.org> |
Henry Wilson wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Nov 2015 00:33:25 +0100, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn wrote:
>> Henry Wilson wrote:
>>> On Fri, 13 Nov 2015 13:05:49 +0100, Paul B. Andersen wrote:
>>>>>>> There was no big bang. There are lots of little bangs. Light loses
>>>>>>> INTRINSIC energy as it travels and that shows up as redshits.
>>>>>> http://www.artsjournal.com/herman/images/redshit.jpg
>>>>> I'm glad to see that you have not dropped out of my physics
>>>>> class......
>>>> Quite.
>>>> But as you can see, I recognize the true nature of your droppings.
>>> How could anything exist for a billion years without changing?
>> Why do you assume that this would be the case?
>
> I don't know of anything that remains exactly the same for even ten years.
OK then, what thing are you talking about that had to change in this case?
>>> Light quanta are made of fields
>>
>> No, photons, or – as you put it – “light quanta”, are elementary
>> excitations of the electromagnetic field. So, that sense, it is the
>> other way around.
>
> Excitations in what?
The electromagnetic field. (Can’t you read?)
> The aether that Einstein's theory requires?
Nonsense. Einstein’s theory, by which you probably mean (the) special
(theory of) relativity, is the one surviving of many theories about
electrodynamics that does _not_ require an aether. It even says so *on the
first page* of Einstein’s „Zur Elektrodynamik bewegter Körper“ (1905; later
translated to “On the electrodynamics of moving bodies”):
| ON THE ELECTRODYNAMICS OF MOVING BODIES
|
| By A. Einstein
| June 30, 1905
|
| It is known that Maxwell's electrodynamics—as usually understood at the
| present time—when applied to moving bodies, leads to asymmetries which do
| not appear to be inherent in the phenomena. Take, for example, the
| reciprocal electrodynamic action of a magnet and a conductor. The
| observable phenomenon here depends only on the relative motion of the
| conductor and the magnet, whereas the customary view draws a sharp
| distinction between the two cases in which either the one or the other of
| these bodies is in motion. For if the magnet is in motion and the
| conductor at rest, there arises in the neighbourhood of the magnet an
| electric field with a certain definite energy, producing a current at the
| places where parts of the conductor are situated. But if the magnet is
| stationary and the conductor in motion, no electric field arises in the
| neighbourhood of the magnet. In the conductor, however, we find an
| electromotive force, to which in itself there is no corresponding energy,
| but which gives rise—assuming equality of relative motion in the two cases
| discussed—to electric currents of the same path and intensity as those
| produced by the electric forces in the former case.
|
| Examples of this sort, together with the unsuccessful attempts to discover
| any motion of the earth relatively to the “light medium,” suggest that the
| phenomena of electrodynamics as well as of mechanics possess no properties
| corresponding to the idea of absolute rest. They suggest rather that, as
| has already been shown to the first order of small quantities, the same
| laws of electrodynamics and optics will be valid for all frames of
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
| reference for which the equations of mechanics hold good.¹ We will raise
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
| this conjecture (the purport of which will hereafter be called the
| “Principle of Relativity”) to the status of a postulate, and also
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
| introduce another postulate, which is only apparently irreconcilable with
| the former, namely, that light is always propagated in empty space with a
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
| definite velocity c which is independent of the state of motion of the
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
| emitting body. These two postulates suffice for the attainment of a simple
^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
| and consistent theory of the electrodynamics of moving bodies based on
| Maxwell's theory for stationary bodies. The introduction of a
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
| “luminiferous ether” will prove to be superfluous inasmuch as the view
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
| here to be developed will not require an “absolutely stationary space”
| provided with special properties, nor assign a velocity-vector to a point
| of the empty space in which electromagnetic processes take place.
See:
<https://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/specrel/www/>
<http://hermes.ffn.ub.es/luisnavarro/nuevo_maletin/Einstein_1905_relativity.pdf>
<https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/On_the_Electrodynamics_of_Moving_Bodies_(1920_edition)>
<http://press.princeton.edu/einstein/materials/special_theory_of_relativity.pdf>
<http://einsteinpapers.press.princeton.edu/vol2-trans/154>
And in general:
<https://www.google.com/search?q=%22on+the+electrodynamics+of+moving+bodies%22&filter=0>
<https://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=%22on+the+electrodynamics+of+moving+bodies%22&filter=0>
>>> and even a Norwegian microprofessor should know something about the$
>>> behaviour of fields in high vacuum. Has he ever seen a gas discharge at
>>> very low pressure?
>>
>> Why do you assume that “gas discharge” has anything to with the Big
>> Bang?
>> What is that “gas discharge” of yours anyway?
>
> It is not the same as your continuous hot air discharge.
You have not the slightest idea what you are talking about.
PointedEars
--
Two neutrinos go through a bar ...
(from: WolframAlpha)
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Re: Why is the universe 13.8 milliards years old ? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-28 15:09 +0100
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Re: Why is the universe 13.8 milliards years old ? Henry Wilson <HGW@home.com> - 2015-12-02 16:09 +0000
Re: Why is the universe 13.8 milliards years old ? Henry Wilson <HGW@home.com> - 2015-11-30 20:52 +0000
Re: Why is the universe 13.8 milliards years old ? Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2015-11-30 15:07 -0800
Re: Why is the universe 13.8 milliards years old ? alsor@interia.pl - 2015-11-30 17:10 -0800
Re: Why is the universe 13.8 milliards years old ? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-12-01 07:30 +0100
Re: Why is the universe 13.8 milliards years old ? Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2015-12-01 04:13 -0800
Re: Why is the universe 13.8 milliards years old ? Henry Wilson <HGW@home.com> - 2015-12-01 18:15 +0000
Re: Why is the universe 13.8 milliards years old ? Henry Wilson <HGW@home.com> - 2015-12-01 18:15 +0000
Re: Why is the universe 13.8 milliards years old ? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-12-01 22:33 +0100
Re: Why is the universe 13.8 milliards years old ? Carl Heinz Krüger <heinzkrueger@ubernetz.org> - 2015-12-01 21:47 +0000
Re: Why is the universe 13.8 milliards years old ? Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2015-12-01 14:57 -0800
Re: Why is the universe 13.8 milliards years old ? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-12-02 07:30 +0100
Re: Why is the universe 13.8 milliards years old ? Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2015-12-02 03:12 -0800
Re: Why is the universe 13.8 milliards years old ? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-12-02 15:25 +0100
Re: Why is the universe 13.8 milliards years old ? Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2015-12-02 06:39 -0800
Re: Why is the universe 13.8 milliards years old ? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-12-02 15:57 +0100
Re: Why is the universe 13.8 milliards years old ? Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2015-12-02 08:25 -0800
Re: Why is the universe 13.8 milliards years old ? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-12-02 17:50 +0100
Re: Why is the universe 13.8 milliards years old ? Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2015-12-02 12:06 -0800
Re: Why is the universe 13.8 milliards years old ? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-12-02 22:28 +0100
Re: Why is the universe 13.8 milliards years old ? Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2015-12-02 14:25 -0800
Re: Why is the universe 13.8 milliards years old ? Henry Wilson <HGW@home.com> - 2015-12-03 16:20 +0000
Re: Why is the universe 13.8 milliards years old ? Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2015-12-03 08:23 -0800
Re: Why is the universe 13.8 milliards years old ? Henry Wilson <HGW@home.com> - 2015-12-02 16:29 +0000
Re: Why is the universe 13.8 milliards years old ? Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2015-12-02 12:10 -0800
Re: Why is the universe 13.8 milliards years old ? Henry Wilson <HGW@home.com> - 2015-12-02 16:26 +0000
Re: Why is the universe 13.8 milliards years old ? Henry Wilson <HGW@home.com> - 2015-12-02 16:21 +0000
Re: Why is the universe 13.8 milliards years old ? Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2015-11-24 10:25 +0000
Re: Why is the universe 13.8 milliards years old ? Henry Wilson <HGW@home.com> - 2015-11-11 18:56 +0000
Re: Why is the universe 13.8 milliards years old ? Peter Riedt <riedt1@yahoo.co.uk> - 2015-11-10 17:51 -0800
Re: Why is the universe 13.8 milliards years old ? Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2015-11-09 22:36 -0600
Re: Why is the universe 13.8 milliards years old ? kefischer <emoneyjoe@iglou.com> - 2015-11-10 00:40 -0500
Re: Why is the universe 13.8 milliards years old ? mlwozniak@wp.pl - 2015-11-09 23:38 -0800
Re: Why is the universe 13.8 milliards years old ? nero <oldogf@yahoo.it> - 2015-11-10 01:37 -0800
Re: Why is the universe 13.8 milliards years old ? HGW <xxx@....> - 2015-11-11 09:16 +1100
Re: Why is the universe 13.8 milliards years old ? alsor@interia.pl - 2015-11-10 18:37 -0800
Re: Why is the universe 13.8 milliards years old ? nero <oldogf@yahoo.it> - 2015-11-11 02:53 -0800
Re: Why is the universe 13.8 milliards years old ? alsor@interia.pl - 2015-11-11 16:44 -0800
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