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Re: The Fatal Achilles Heel of Einstein's Relativity

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alsor@interia.pl wrote:

> W dniu środa, 30 listopada 2016 19:26:02 UTC+1 użytkownik Thomas
> 'PointedEars' Lahn
>> > In the relativity stupid model it's impossible to distinguise what is
>> > moving...
>> 
>> You probably mean “_distinguish_”, and it is not stupid.  Whether your
>> car hits the truck, standing on the road, at e.g. 50 km∕h, or the truck
>> hits you, standing on the road, at that speed, makes the same damage to
>> personnel and material.
> 
> Not necessarily.

Yes, *necessarily*.

> Look at the case of a moving train colision with a car:
> the car is totaly destroyed, mixed, crushed and fragmented.
> 
> Next: the car moves and hits the same train, which now stays in place.
> The car simply contracts somewhat only - it not destroys, nor fragments,
> unlike in the earlier version.

Incorrect.  If the "moving" car hits the "standing" train at the same angle 
and the same speed, the same thing happens as if the "standing" car would be 
hit by a "moving" train.  Because the magnitude of the energy is the same.
Classical mechanics suffices for the calculation.

I dare you to prove me wrong by finding an *uninhabited* train and crashing 
your car into it at 100 km∕h.  If you do this, you will finally have learned 
something, and if we are very lucky, you will not be able to show your 
stupid face here again anytime soon.
  
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velocity-addition_formula>
> 
> Of course!
> That is just the relativistic speed, which is wrong in the general case,

No, it is correct in the special *and* the general case.

While your idea is *wrong* in the *general case* (arbitrary speed) to begin 
with, and only *approximately* correct in the special one (speeds much lower 
than the speed of light).

> as any approximation, simplification!

Learn to read!

The *approximation* is that *if* you add/subtract the speeds *instead of* 
*also* considering a tiny Lorentz factor at low speeds – e.g.,

  γ(v = 50 km∕h) = 1∕(1 – ((50∕3.6)²/299'792'458²) ≈ 1.00000000000000107316

–, you get a result that is not *precisely* correct, but suffices for daily 
life (it does not matter in daily life, for example, if the result is off by 
0.000001 km∕h).

But when one or both of the (collision) speeds u and v of the bodies, as 
measured in the rest frame, approach the speed of light (*then* either is 
called “relativistic speed”), simply adding (or subtracting) the speeds gets 
you an *obviously* *wrong* result.  So *wrong* *as* *you* *calculated*.

In the worst case, if u = v = c, and you simply add (according to the 
*classical*, Galilei transformation)

  s = u + v = c + c = 2 c,

the result is *wrong* *by a factor of two*, because the *correct* result is 
(according to the relativistic, _Lorentz_ transformation)

  s = (u + v)∕(1 + u v∕c²) = (c + c)∕(1 + c²∕c²) = 2 c∕2 = c,

where s is the relative speed.  This corresponds to the *experimentally* 
*confirmed* assumption that *nothing* can go faster than c, in *no* frame of 
reference (which also implies that c is the same in all inertial frames of 
reference [SR postulate #2]).
 
>> > that is just the key of the stupidity:
>> That you do not understand it does not make it stupid.
>  
> You do not understand the elementary math yet!

*Your* “elementary math” is *wrong*, refuted by experiment to begin with.

It also does not make any sense, as one can clearly see below.
 
> Simply:

*Too* simple, stupid!

> […] there is the general classical Doppler formula: D = D(r,s);
> and the second one - a relativistic: D-approx = D(v);
> 
> where: v = v/(1-rs);

What a mindbogglingly stupid nonsense.  You are attempting to calculate
the value of a quantity (v) by using the very quantity that you want to 
calculate.

Divide both sides of this equation by v, and you get (assuming v ≠ 0):

  1 = 1∕(1 - rs)

which is only true if r = s = 0, or, considering your *ambiguous*, 
*unscientific* notation, if “rs” = r_s = 0.  So much for generality.

And, of course, what you have posted so far is *neither* the classical *nor* 
the relativistic "Doppler formula".  The classical equation is

  v_{observed} = v_{source} ∕ (1 ± v_{source}∕v_{wave}).

But *it does not apply to _electromagnetic_ waves such as light*!

Go *learn* some elementary math and physics, and do not come back before!

-- 
PointedEars

Twitter: @PointedEars2
Please do not cc me. / Bitte keine Kopien per E-Mail.

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The Fatal Achilles Heel of Einstein's Relativity Pentcho Valev <pvalev@yahoo.com> - 2016-11-24 03:49 -0800
  The Fatal Achilles Heel of Einstein's Relativity "David (Lord Kronos) Fuller" <fuller.david@hotmail.com> - 2016-11-24 04:33 -0800
  Re: The Fatal Achilles Heel of Einstein's Relativity Tom Roberts <tjroberts137@sbcglobal.net> - 2016-11-24 09:46 -0600
    Re: The Fatal Achilles Heel of Einstein's Relativity Dusty Kollmann <uberdrivery@uberdriver.info> - 2016-11-24 20:43 +0000
      Re: The Fatal Achilles Heel of Einstein's Relativity Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-11-25 17:46 +0100
        Re: The Fatal Achilles Heel of Einstein's Relativity alsor@interia.pl - 2016-11-25 14:04 -0800
          Re: The Fatal Achilles Heel of Einstein's Relativity Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-11-26 00:20 +0100
            Re: The Fatal Achilles Heel of Einstein's Relativity Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-11-26 01:56 +0100
            Re: The Fatal Achilles Heel of Einstein's Relativity alsor@interia.pl - 2016-11-25 17:18 -0800
              Re: The Fatal Achilles Heel of Einstein's Relativity Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-11-26 02:49 +0100
                Re: The Fatal Achilles Heel of Einstein's Relativity alsor@interia.pl - 2016-11-26 08:46 -0800
                Re: The Fatal Achilles Heel of Einstein's Relativity Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-11-26 19:30 +0100
                Re: The Fatal Achilles Heel of Einstein's Relativity alsor@interia.pl - 2016-11-26 12:37 -0800
                Re: The Fatal Achilles Heel of Einstein's Relativity Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-11-27 13:19 +0100
                Re: The Fatal Achilles Heel of Einstein's Relativity Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-11-27 16:54 +0100
                Re: The Fatal Achilles Heel of Einstein's Relativity alsor@interia.pl - 2016-11-27 12:08 -0800
                Re: The Fatal Achilles Heel of Einstein's Relativity Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@hotspam.not> - 2016-12-03 11:05 +0100
                Re: The Fatal Achilles Heel of Einstein's Relativity alsor@interia.pl - 2016-12-03 09:51 -0800
                Re: The Fatal Achilles Heel of Einstein's Relativity Dirk Van de moortel <dirkvandemoortel@hotspam.not> - 2016-12-04 09:44 +0100
                Re: The Fatal Achilles Heel of Einstein's Relativity alsor@interia.pl - 2016-12-04 09:07 -0800
                Re: The Fatal Achilles Heel of Einstein's Relativity Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-04 09:17 -0800
                Re: The Fatal Achilles Heel of Einstein's Relativity alsor@interia.pl - 2016-12-04 09:48 -0800
                Re: The Fatal Achilles Heel of Einstein's Relativity Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-04 15:39 -0800
                Re: The Fatal Achilles Heel of Einstein's Relativity alsor@interia.pl - 2016-12-05 12:31 -0800
                Re: The Fatal Achilles Heel of Einstein's Relativity Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-05 13:23 -0800
                Re: The Fatal Achilles Heel of Einstein's Relativity alsor@interia.pl - 2016-11-27 11:08 -0800
                Re: The Fatal Achilles Heel of Einstein's Relativity Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-11-27 21:29 +0100
                Re: The Fatal Achilles Heel of Einstein's Relativity alsor@interia.pl - 2016-11-27 13:34 -0800
                Re: The Fatal Achilles Heel of Einstein's Relativity Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-11-27 23:42 +0100
                Re: The Fatal Achilles Heel of Einstein's Relativity alsor@interia.pl - 2016-11-30 09:13 -0800
                Re: The Fatal Achilles Heel of Einstein's Relativity Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-11-30 19:26 +0100
                Re: The Fatal Achilles Heel of Einstein's Relativity Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-11-30 12:51 -0600
                Re: The Fatal Achilles Heel of Einstein's Relativity Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-12-01 14:35 +0100
                Re: The Fatal Achilles Heel of Einstein's Relativity Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-12-01 14:42 +0100
                Re: The Fatal Achilles Heel of Einstein's Relativity Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-12-01 10:06 -0600
                Re: The Fatal Achilles Heel of Einstein's Relativity Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-12-02 16:40 +0100
                Re: The Fatal Achilles Heel of Einstein's Relativity Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-12-02 09:52 -0600
                Re: The Fatal Achilles Heel of Einstein's Relativity Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-12-02 18:45 +0100
                Re: The Fatal Achilles Heel of Einstein's Relativity Odd Bodkin <bodkinodd@gmail.com> - 2016-12-02 10:37 -0600
                Re: The Fatal Achilles Heel of Einstein's Relativity alsor@interia.pl - 2016-11-30 11:03 -0800
                Re: The Fatal Achilles Heel of Einstein's Relativity Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-12-01 14:21 +0100
                Re: The Fatal Achilles Heel of Einstein's Relativity Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-12-01 15:25 +0100
                Re: The Fatal Achilles Heel of Einstein's Relativity Julian Alewine <lliian@lliianenpo.org> - 2016-12-01 14:31 +0000
                Re: The Fatal Achilles Heel of Einstein's Relativity alsor@interia.pl - 2016-12-02 11:15 -0800
                Re: The Fatal Achilles Heel of Einstein's Relativity Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-02 12:17 -0800
                Re: The Fatal Achilles Heel of Einstein's Relativity alsor@interia.pl - 2016-12-03 09:47 -0800
                Re: The Fatal Achilles Heel of Einstein's Relativity Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-03 09:56 -0800
                Re: The Fatal Achilles Heel of Einstein's Relativity alsor@interia.pl - 2016-12-03 10:49 -0800
                Re: The Fatal Achilles Heel of Einstein's Relativity Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-12-03 10:58 -0800
                Re: The Fatal Achilles Heel of Einstein's Relativity alsor@interia.pl - 2016-12-03 11:31 -0800
                Re: The Fatal Achilles Heel of Einstein's Relativity Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedEars@web.de> - 2016-12-02 22:18 +0100
                Re: The Fatal Achilles Heel of Einstein's Relativity moroney@world.std.spaamtrap.com (Michael Moroney) - 2016-12-01 17:30 +0000
  Re: The Fatal Achilles Heel of Einstein's Relativity Pentcho Valev <pvalev@yahoo.com> - 2016-11-24 15:51 -0800
    Re: The Fatal Achilles Heel of Einstein's Relativity Gary Harnagel <hitlong@yahoo.com> - 2016-11-24 16:15 -0800

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