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Groups > sci.math > #646832 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2026-07-19 11:53 +0200 |
| Last post | 2026-08-02 13:41 -0700 |
| Articles | 17 on this page of 97 — 18 participants |
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I'm a spinner, I'm a sinner [Dmitry Vyukov for pi-WAM] (Was: Paul Tarau versus Mr. Taskmanager, who would win? [A PDP-11 Humunkulus from 1979]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-19 11:53 +0200
Corr.: Re: I'm a spinner, I'm a sinner [Dmitry Vyukov for pi-WAM] (Was: Paul Tarau versus Mr. Taskmanager, who would win? [A PDP-11 Humunkulus from 1979]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-19 11:55 +0200
Re: I'm a spinner, I'm a sinner [Dmitry Vyukov for pi-WAM] (Was: Paul Tarau versus Mr. Taskmanager, who would win? [A PDP-11 Humunkulus from 1979]) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-07-19 14:04 -0700
Re: I'm a spinner, I'm a sinner [Dmitry Vyukov for pi-WAM] (Was: Paul Tarau versus Mr. Taskmanager, who would win? [A PDP-11 Humunkulus from 1979]) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-07-19 14:07 -0700
Gemini, DeepSeek, OpenAI all know Dmitriy V'jukov (Was: I'm a spinner, I'm a sinner [Dmitry Vyukov for pi-WAM]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-20 08:31 +0200
Re: Gemini, DeepSeek, OpenAI all know Dmitriy V'jukov (Was: I'm a spinner, I'm a sinner [Dmitry Vyukov for pi-WAM]) Romelio Balakhonsky <lrel@lao.ru> - 2026-07-20 10:07 +0000
The Cache Identity Crisis by Micro Penis (Re: Gemini, DeepSeek, OpenAI all know Dmitriy V'jukov) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-20 13:51 +0200
Just RTFM the RDNA 3.5 specs! [GPU Cache Lines] (Was: The Cache Identity Crisis by Micro Penis) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-20 14:09 +0200
The large memory tax: ECC RAM (Was: Just RTFM the RDNA 3.5 specs! [GPU Cache Lines]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-20 14:22 +0200
Friendly Reminder: GPU 10x more performant than CPU (Re: Just RTFM the RDNA 3.5 specs! [GPU Cache Lines]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-21 00:40 +0200
Breaking the CUDA edge in AI by WebGPU (Re: Friendly Reminder: GPU 10x more performant than CPU) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-21 00:57 +0200
Like WebAssembly before it, WebGPU has "escaped" the browser. (Re: Breaking the CUDA edge in AI by WebGPU (Re: Friendly Reminder: GPU 10x more performant than CPU) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-21 01:07 +0200
Re: Breaking the CUDA edge in AI by WebGPU (Re: Friendly Reminder: GPU 10x more performant than CPU) Will Bakshandaev <bev@lwesi.ru> - 2026-07-21 14:33 +0000
http://localhost:567921/ is a private REST endpoint [Teaching Micro Penis Vilage Idiot] (Was: Breaking the CUDA edge in AI by WebGPU) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-21 22:41 +0200
If you are paranoid you can use Falco [Agentic AI] (Re: http://localhost:567921/ is a private REST endpoint) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-21 22:57 +0200
What would an EMACs guru say [Windows Recall] (Was: If you are paranoid you can use Falco [Agentic AI]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-21 23:33 +0200
Re: http://localhost:567921/ is a private REST endpoint [Teaching Micro Penis Vilage Idiot] (Was: Breaking the CUDA edge in AI by WebGPU) Hants Baibikov <vi@bi.ru> - 2026-07-21 21:51 +0000
Re: http://localhost:567921/ is a private REST endpoint [Teaching Micro Penis Vilage Idiot] (Was: Breaking the CUDA edge in AI by WebGPU) Pascual Talbaev <ps@laalapa.ru> - 2026-07-21 22:02 +0000
Decide what you critique tiny winy penis (Was: http://localhost:567921/ is a private REST endpoint) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-22 08:13 +0200
How confused is tiny winy penis? (Re: Decide what you critique tiny winy penis) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-22 08:29 +0200
Maybe change your hobby, become a dog owner? (Re: How confused is tiny winy penis?) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-22 09:38 +0200
Re: Decide what you critique tiny winy penis (Was: http://localhost:567921/ is a private REST endpoint) Audie Balaban <aie@ndabl.ru> - 2026-07-22 08:02 +0000
Even dogs know Switzerland != Germany [Syphilis Brain Micro Penis] (Re: Decide what you critique tiny winy penis (Was: http://localhost:567921/ is a private REST endpoint) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-22 11:17 +0200
Re: Even dogs know Switzerland != Germany [Syphilis Brain Micro Penis] (Re: Decide what you critique tiny winy penis (Was: http://localhost:567921/ is a private REST endpoint) Roque Bahtinov <aoqhi@hrot.ru> - 2026-07-22 12:04 +0000
My Swift Go 16 AI has no IMEI, are you nuts? (Was: Even dogs know Switzerland != Germany [Syphilis Brain Micro Penis]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-22 14:12 +0200
Same nickname and email, could post faster [5 year old moron] (Re: My Swift Go 16 AI has no IMEI, are you nuts?) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-22 14:24 +0200
Re: My Swift Go 16 AI has no IMEI, are you nuts? (Was: Even dogs know Switzerland != Germany [Syphilis Brain Micro Penis]) Randolf Mukanov <mfroa@unvfo.ru> - 2026-07-22 12:27 +0000
I have nothing to hide, you can find me in search.ch (Was: My Swift Go 16 AI has no IMEI, are you nuts?) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-22 14:31 +0200
Re: I have nothing to hide, you can find me in search.ch (Was: My Swift Go 16 AI has no IMEI, are you nuts?) Keiv Babenchikov <hi@babebek.ru> - 2026-07-22 12:35 +0000
Where did I confirm German via .ch, you are more than nuts! (Was: I have nothing to hide, you can find me in search.ch) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-22 14:46 +0200
Ask a Ukrainian Neighbour to do Detective [CCCP Troll] (Was: Where did I confirm German via .ch, you are more than nuts!) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-22 14:51 +0200
Re: Ask a Ukrainian Neighbour to do Detective [CCCP Troll] (Was: Where did I confirm German via .ch, you are more than nuts!) Hudson Patrianakos <nrin@odrtta.gr> - 2026-07-22 16:10 +0000
Re: The Cache Identity Crisis by Micro Penis (Re: Gemini, DeepSeek, OpenAI all know Dmitriy V'jukov) Jeiker Makulov <rmkru@eeeamu.ru> - 2026-07-20 16:18 +0000
L1,..,Ln caches are located on the CPU AND on the GPU (Was: The Cache Identity Crisis by Micro Penis) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-20 19:33 +0200
GPU Cache Hierarchy: Understanding L1, L2, and VRAM (Re: L1,..,Ln caches are located on the CPU AND on the GPU) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-20 19:42 +0200
Re: GPU Cache Hierarchy: Understanding L1, L2, and VRAM (Re: L1,..,Ln caches are located on the CPU AND on the GPU) Zackee Mulatov <azauv@omtla.ru> - 2026-07-20 19:09 +0000
Well thats good, co-location, onto the same processor die (Was: GPU Cache Hierarchy: Understanding L1, L2, and VRAM) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-20 22:02 +0200
Where is micro penis mental error? (Re: Well thats good, co-location, onto the same processor die) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-20 22:07 +0200
Re: Well thats good, co-location, onto the same processor die (Was: GPU Cache Hierarchy: Understanding L1, L2, and VRAM) Hermis Molochkov <me@olech.ru> - 2026-07-20 22:27 +0000
Re: Gemini, DeepSeek, OpenAI all know Dmitriy V'jukov (Was: I'm a spinner, I'm a sinner [Dmitry Vyukov for pi-WAM]) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-07-20 13:40 -0700
I didn't find Futex in WebGPU / WGSL (Was: Gemini, DeepSeek, OpenAI all know Dmitriy V'jukov) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-20 23:25 +0200
Re: I didn't find Futex in WebGPU / WGSL (Was: Gemini, DeepSeek, OpenAI all know Dmitriy V'jukov) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-07-20 14:32 -0700
Re: I didn't find Futex in WebGPU / WGSL (Was: Gemini, DeepSeek, OpenAI all know Dmitriy V'jukov) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-07-20 14:35 -0700
There is no imageAtomicAdd in WGSL (Was: I didn't find Futex in WebGPU / WGSL) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-21 00:12 +0200
OpenGL is dead. Apple said bye bye / Wayland Compositor (Was: There is no imageAtomicAdd in WGSL) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-21 00:24 +0200
Re: There is no imageAtomicAdd in WGSL (Was: I didn't find Futex in WebGPU / WGSL) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-07-20 16:15 -0700
Flogging a Dead Horse, OpenGL is EOL (Was: There is no imageAtomicAdd in WGSL) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-21 01:24 +0200
imageAtomicAdd trivial, Dmitry Vyukov requires capacity (Re: Flogging a Dead Horse, OpenGL is EOL (Was: There is no imageAtomicAdd in WGSL) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-21 01:32 +0200
capacity = 2^n for some n / systolic system (Was: imageAtomicAdd trivial, Dmitry Vyukov requires capacity) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-21 01:37 +0200
Source of the benchmark for DmitryVyukov (Re: capacity = 2^n for some n / systolic system) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-21 01:45 +0200
Re: imageAtomicAdd trivial, Dmitry Vyukov requires capacity (Re: Flogging a Dead Horse, OpenGL is EOL (Was: There is no imageAtomicAdd in WGSL) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-07-20 17:00 -0700
I never used OpenGL Version 4.2 and later (Re: imageAtomicAdd trivial, Dmitry Vyukov requires capacity) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-21 08:49 +0200
Because of MIMD you have to reassess algorithms (Was: I never used OpenGL Version 4.2 and later) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-21 08:59 +0200
Why MIMD is interesting for pi-WAM? Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-21 09:16 +0200
Re: Why MIMD is interesting for pi-WAM? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-21 00:32 -0700
Re: Because of MIMD you have to reassess algorithms (Was: I never used OpenGL Version 4.2 and later) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-21 00:42 -0700
You still don't understand "budget" [Rossy Boy slower than Micro Penis] (Was: Because of MIMD you have to reassess algorithms) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-21 10:13 +0200
Go on Rossy Boy, ask more stupid questions (Was: You still don't understand "budget" [Rossy Boy slower than Micro Penis]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-21 10:17 +0200
Need to be Einstein to understand Giga Lips (Was: Go on Rossy Boy, ask more stupid questions) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-21 10:22 +0200
Marketing invents Gucci Bag AI Laptops (Was: Need to be Einstein to understand Giga Lips) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-21 10:43 +0200
Re: Go on Rossy Boy, ask more stupid questions (Was: You still don't understand "budget" [Rossy Boy slower than Micro Penis]) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-21 08:59 -0700
Rossy Boy says I am a crazy frothing lunatic (Was: Go on Rossy Boy, ask more stupid questions) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-21 22:27 +0200
Re: Rossy Boy says I am a crazy frothing lunatic (Was: Go on Rossy Boy, ask more stupid questions) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-21 13:52 -0700
Do you see the loops, in C code and in Java code? /** Looping **/ (Re: Because of MIMD you have to reassess algorithms) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-23 00:10 +0200
Re: Do you see the loops, in C code and in Java code? /** Looping **/ (Re: Because of MIMD you have to reassess algorithms) Lane W <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> - 2026-07-22 16:23 -0600
regreting not using a contraceptive (Was: Do you see the loops, in C code and in Java code? /** Looping **/) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-23 00:51 +0200
Re: regreting not using a contraceptive (Was: Do you see the loops, in C code and in Java code? /** Looping **/) Lane W <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> - 2026-07-22 17:13 -0600
Re: regreting not using a contraceptive (Was: Do you see the loops, in C code and in Java code? /** Looping **/) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-07-22 18:23 -0700
Re: regreting not using a contraceptive (Was: Do you see the loops, in C code and in Java code? /** Looping **/) Clerence Bakhvalov <eael@eheav.ru> - 2026-07-23 13:06 +0000
Re: Do you see the loops, in C code and in Java code? /** Looping **/ (Re: Because of MIMD you have to reassess algorithms) Kayce Pakhmutov <vop@ktevkh.ru> - 2026-07-23 13:01 +0000
Re: Do you see the loops, in C code and in Java code? /** Looping **/ (Re: Because of MIMD you have to reassess algorithms) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-07-23 13:19 -0700
Why do you even need a mpmc queue? [Thunder Kittens] (Re Do you see the loops, in C code and in Java code? /** Looping **/) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-24 14:43 +0200
What does pi in pi-WAM mean? (Re: Why do you even need a mpmc queue? [Thunder Kittens]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-24 14:52 +0200
OR-parallelism or AND-parallelism? [MapReduce] (Re: What does pi in pi-WAM mean?) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-24 15:02 +0200
Re: What does pi in pi-WAM mean? (Re: Why do you even need a mpmc queue? [Thunder Kittens]) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-07-24 11:01 -0700
It is all on GitHub , for the 100-th time! (Was: What does pi in pi-WAM mean?) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-24 20:10 +0200
Re: Why do you even need a mpmc queue? [Thunder Kittens] (Re Do you see the loops, in C code and in Java code? /** Looping **/) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-24 15:54 -0700
And, where did I talk about rockets? [Hint its about xAI's Grok] (Was: Why do you even need a mpmc queue? [Thunder Kittens]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-25 01:23 +0200
Re: And, where did I talk about rockets? [Hint its about xAI's Grok] (Was: Why do you even need a mpmc queue? [Thunder Kittens]) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-24 21:20 -0700
Re: And, where did I talk about rockets? [Hint its about xAI's Grok] (Was: Why do you even need a mpmc queue? [Thunder Kittens]) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-24 21:23 -0700
Why forget something, that was never on my mind (Was: And, where did I talk about rockets?) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-25 09:47 +0200
Example Mandel Brot rendering [Faster with MIMD] (Re: Why do you even need a mpmc queue? [Thunder Kittens]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-25 09:57 +0200
Re: Why do you even need a mpmc queue? [Thunder Kittens] (Re Do you see the loops, in C code and in Java code? /** Looping **/) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-01 02:02 -0700
Re: Why do you even need a mpmc queue? [Thunder Kittens] (Re Do you see the loops, in C code and in Java code? /** Looping **/) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-01 02:05 -0700
He uses "FIFO objects", and DMA and Noc [Glimps into Ryzen AI 7 350] (Was: Why do you even need a mpmc queue? [Thunder Kittens]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-01 12:00 +0200
NACK retransmission might double Manhattan Distance (Was: He uses "FIFO objects", and DMA and Noc) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-01 14:22 +0200
Re: NACK retransmission might double Manhattan Distance (Was: He uses "FIFO objects", and DMA and Noc) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-01 14:50 -0700
I am using WebGPU, and not WebGL (Was: NACK retransmission might double Manhattan Distance) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-02 00:43 +0200
Re: I am using WebGPU, and not WebGL (Was: NACK retransmission might double Manhattan Distance) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-01 16:02 -0700
Re: I am using WebGPU, and not WebGL (Was: NACK retransmission might double Manhattan Distance) Lane W <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> - 2026-08-01 17:04 -0600
Re: I am using WebGPU, and not WebGL (Was: NACK retransmission might double Manhattan Distance) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-02 14:45 -0700
YOU ARE AN IDIOT (Was: I am using WebGPU, and not WebGL) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-02 23:56 +0200
YOU ARE AN IDIOT (Re: I am using WebGPU, and not WebGL) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-02 23:57 +0200
Texture inside my compute shader makes no sense (Was: I am using WebGPU, and not WebGL) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-02 02:36 +0200
Prolog inferencing and not canvasing fancy stuff (Was: Texture inside my compute shader makes no sense) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-02 02:38 +0200
Re: Prolog inferencing and not canvasing fancy stuff (Was: Texture inside my compute shader makes no sense) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-02 13:34 -0700
Re: Prolog inferencing and not canvasing fancy stuff (Was: Texture inside my compute shader makes no sense) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-02 13:41 -0700
Page 5 of 5 — ← Prev page 1 2 3 4 [5]
| From | Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-07-25 09:47 +0200 |
| Subject | Why forget something, that was never on my mind (Was: And, where did I talk about rockets?) |
| Message-ID | <1141pnd$cqre$1@solani.org> |
| In reply to | #646994 |
Hi, Why I forget something, that was never on my mind. This here is hardly about rockets: 11.4 Giga Lips with a Budget Laptop https://github.com/Jean-Luc-Picard-2021/gigabudget So stop glue sniffing. Got it? Your are just confused. I don't care about SpaceX, that Composer was acquired by SpaceX was just a factual thing. Bye Disclaimer: Who knows, maybe somebody picks up pi-calculus and/or WAM for rocket engineering, I do not primarily exclude it. But its not on my mind, so I cannot forget something which I don't care about. Ross Finlayson schrieb: > Forget Space-X and forget that heil-throwing fat-ass, too, > the rockets they bought are wearing out and the ones they > built are blowing up, moving fast and breaking things.
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| From | Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-07-25 09:57 +0200 |
| Subject | Example Mandel Brot rendering [Faster with MIMD] (Re: Why do you even need a mpmc queue? [Thunder Kittens]) |
| Message-ID | <1141q9o$crap$2@solani.org> |
| In reply to | #646967 |
Hi,
Mostlikely this is faster with MIMD,
than with SIMD. Draw a Mandel Brot Figure:
mandelbrot
https://compute.toys/view/213
Why, because each pixel has a different
result i, since this loop has a break:
for (i = 0; i < count; i++) {
if (z_re * z_re + z_im * z_im > 4.0) {
break;
}
let new_re = z_re * z_re - z_im * z_im;
let new_im = 2.0f * z_re * z_im;
z_re = c_re + new_re;
z_im = c_im + new_im;
}
So a sheduler balancer, that uses independent
thread state (MIMD), from a post NVIDIA Volta
type GPU, can squeeze out more computation,
than a lock step (SIMD) scheduler, from a
pre NVIDIA Volta GPU. I guess I will use that
as a balancing example for pi-WAM.
Bye
Mild Shock schrieb:
> Hi,
>
> You don't pay attention, right! I am little
> bit disappointed that your attention span is
> near zero. I already posted:
>
> From: Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm>
> Subject: Why do you even need a mpmc queue? [Thunder Kittens]
> Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2026 08:43:03 +0200
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Because I use WebGPU and not WebGL. And
>> because WebGPU can adresss modern GPU
>> developed with the NVIDIA Volta evolution,
>>
>> which happened in 2017. Namley that compute
>> shaders are not any more subject to the
>> realization restriction of lock step
>>
>> execution, but have independent thread state.
>> And because there is independent thread state
>> there is also independent time spent for a
>>
>> a work item by each logical thread, if the
>> submitted logical thread uses a lot of branching
>> logic or even loops. But the use of branching
>>
>> and loops is encouraged in independent thread
>> state programming of compute shaders. The variables
>> that can drive such logic are the scalar variables:
>>
>> Tour of WGSL - Control Flow
>> https://google.github.io/tour-of-wgsl/control-flow/
>>
>> Then not to waste GPU compute time, by logical
>> threads doing nothing. You will need to
>> introduce some load balancing among multiple
>>
>> logical threads. And MPMC queues are one way to
>> readize load balancing. Compute shaders with
>> producer and consumer entry points are proposed
>>
>> as fundamental architecture by Thunder Kittens:
>>
>> ThunderKittens: Simple, Fast, and Adorable AI Kernels
>> https://arxiv.org/abs/2410.20399
>>
>> They are used by this SpaceX acquisition:
>>
>> Composer 2 Technical Report
>> https://arxiv.org/abs/2603.24477
>>
>> Thunder Kittens uses Hardware support, i.e. tma_expect().
>>
>> Bye
>>
>> Chris M. Thomasson schrieb:
>>>> never meant to be used in a GPU.
>>>> Dmitry CAS version can be used, but
>>>>
>>>> Why do you even need a mpmc queue
>>>> in your compute shader anyway?
>
> Chris M. Thomasson schrieb:
>> I don't think he knows exactly what he is doing... Why does he need a
>> lock/wait-free queue in a compute shader? What is he trying to do?
>
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| From | "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-01 02:02 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: Why do you even need a mpmc queue? [Thunder Kittens] (Re Do you see the loops, in C code and in Java code? /** Looping **/) |
| Message-ID | <114kcni$3fhj3$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #646967 |
On 7/24/2026 5:43 AM, Mild Shock wrote: > Then not to waste GPU compute time, by logical > threads doing nothing. Well, then never get to a full/empty condition. It depends on what you are trying to do. If a GPU thread, warp needs to wait on something, then you are not designing things right to begin with?
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-01 02:05 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: Why do you even need a mpmc queue? [Thunder Kittens] (Re Do you see the loops, in C code and in Java code? /** Looping **/) |
| Message-ID | <114kcsr$3fhj3$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #647073 |
On 8/1/2026 2:02 AM, Chris M. Thomasson wrote: > On 7/24/2026 5:43 AM, Mild Shock wrote: >> Then not to waste GPU compute time, by logical >> threads doing nothing. > > Well, then never get to a full/empty condition. It depends on what you > are trying to do. If a GPU thread, warp needs to wait on something, then > you are not designing things right to begin with? Are you sure you even need FIFO? There is a really fast LIFO stack that is also atomic. Now, for the GPU you should never have to spinwait, or wait on anything. You need to be able to always have work to do. There are certian patterns that work well. Its not like on the CPU where we can wait in the kernel on conditions, ala futex or something.
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| From | Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-01 12:00 +0200 |
| Subject | He uses "FIFO objects", and DMA and Noc [Glimps into Ryzen AI 7 350] (Was: Why do you even need a mpmc queue? [Thunder Kittens]) |
| Message-ID | <114kg39$ouvh$1@solani.org> |
| In reply to | #647074 |
Hi, He uses FIFO, and DMA and Noc: Getting peak TOPS on a Ryzen AI 7 350 NPU https://destevez.net/2026/05/getting-peak-tops-on-a-ryzen-ai-7-350-npu/ But lets say whether its FIFO or FILO isn't so importand his used cases are, what is now found in my library(furryhaze) for GPU, namely the very basic: /** * test_gpu_comp_start(W, K): internal only * The predicate succeeds. As a side effect it * starts the π-WAM W with K warps. */ function test_gpu_comp_start(args) /** * test_gpu_comp_join(W, P): internal only * The predicate succeeds in P with a new promise * that waits for the π-WAM W to finish. */ function test_gpu_comp_join(args) A GPU interface, via the command processor for example of WebGPU, does the above synchronization for you. In the NPU example he does everything low level, with Python IRON an stuff: "Since the main way to achieve synchronization within the IRON framework is by doing data movement with object FIFOs, I’m sending a dummy uint32 value as some sort of synchronization token. Waiting for all the kernels to finish is trickier. The object FIFOs support a join pattern in which an object FIFO consumes an object from each of multiple object FIFOs, concatenates these objects and produces the concatenated object as a result. Etc.." Getting peak TOPS on a Ryzen AI 7 350 NPU https://destevez.net/2026/05/getting-peak-tops-on-a-ryzen-ai-7-350-npu/ So Daniel Estévez Scientific & Technical Amateur Radio, gives a nice glimpse into an NPU, I have not yet publicitly released my library(furryhaze), since its still in testing. Maybe take another week or so, still I have ironed out all corners, for example the new gpu_comp_start and gpu_comp_join works fine on may desktop AI laptops, but I have still a bug on my iPad AI tablet, on the Redmi AI phone, also chokes on a test case. Bye Chris M. Thomasson schrieb: > On 8/1/2026 2:02 AM, Chris M. Thomasson wrote: >> On 7/24/2026 5:43 AM, Mild Shock wrote: >>> Then not to waste GPU compute time, by logical >>> threads doing nothing. >> >> Well, then never get to a full/empty condition. It depends on what you >> are trying to do. If a GPU thread, warp needs to wait on something, >> then you are not designing things right to begin with? > > Are you sure you even need FIFO? There is a really fast LIFO stack that > is also atomic. Now, for the GPU you should never have to spinwait, or > wait on anything. You need to be able to always have work to do. There > are certian patterns that work well. Its not like on the CPU where we > can wait in the kernel on conditions, ala futex or something.
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| From | Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-01 14:22 +0200 |
| Subject | NACK retransmission might double Manhattan Distance (Was: He uses "FIFO objects", and DMA and Noc) |
| Message-ID | <114kodf$pkdq$1@solani.org> |
| In reply to | #647075 |
Hi,
As easy as queues and FIFO objects might
sound. They don't like congestion. NACK for
retransmission might double the Manhattan Distance:
You have not only start
S to end E communication:
+----E
|
|
S
You might also have ACK or NACK
from E or midpoints back to S:
S'
+
+
E'
Ok, I made that up, I have no idea what a flit is,
when the author wrote this here:
"Packet flits are held in the FIFO which can
be used to determine back pressure. Dropping flits
in a NoC may not be possible since these
architectures may not provide an end-to-end
protocol for retransmission."
Routing Algorithms for 2D NoC Architectures
http://cva.stanford.edu/classes/ee382c/research/2DRouting.pdf
Bye
Mild Shock schrieb:
> Hi,
>
> He uses FIFO, and DMA and Noc:
>
> Getting peak TOPS on a Ryzen AI 7 350 NPU
> https://destevez.net/2026/05/getting-peak-tops-on-a-ryzen-ai-7-350-npu/
>
> But lets say whether its FIFO or FILO
> isn't so importand his used cases are,
> what is now found in my library(furryhaze)
>
> for GPU, namely the very basic:
>
> /**
> * test_gpu_comp_start(W, K): internal only
> * The predicate succeeds. As a side effect it
> * starts the π-WAM W with K warps.
> */
> function test_gpu_comp_start(args)
>
> /**
> * test_gpu_comp_join(W, P): internal only
> * The predicate succeeds in P with a new promise
> * that waits for the π-WAM W to finish.
> */
> function test_gpu_comp_join(args)
>
> A GPU interface, via the command processor
> for example of WebGPU, does the above
> synchronization for you.
>
> In the NPU example he does everything
> low level, with Python IRON an stuff:
>
> "Since the main way to achieve synchronization
> within the IRON framework is by doing data
> movement with object FIFOs, I’m sending a
> dummy uint32 value as some sort of
> synchronization token.
>
> Waiting for all the kernels to finish is
> trickier. The object FIFOs support a join
> pattern in which an object FIFO consumes an
> object from each of multiple object FIFOs,
> concatenates these objects and produces the
> concatenated object as a result.
>
> Etc.."
>
> Getting peak TOPS on a Ryzen AI 7 350 NPU
> https://destevez.net/2026/05/getting-peak-tops-on-a-ryzen-ai-7-350-npu/
>
> So Daniel Estévez Scientific & Technical
> Amateur Radio, gives a nice glimpse into an
> NPU, I have not yet publicitly released
>
> my library(furryhaze), since its still in
> testing. Maybe take another week or so,
> still I have ironed out all corners,
>
> for example the new gpu_comp_start and
> gpu_comp_join works fine on may desktop
> AI laptops, but I have still a bug on
>
> my iPad AI tablet, on the Redmi AI phone,
> also chokes on a test case.
>
> Bye
>
> Chris M. Thomasson schrieb:
>> On 8/1/2026 2:02 AM, Chris M. Thomasson wrote:
>>> On 7/24/2026 5:43 AM, Mild Shock wrote:
>>>> Then not to waste GPU compute time, by logical
>>>> threads doing nothing.
>>>
>>> Well, then never get to a full/empty condition. It depends on what
>>> you are trying to do. If a GPU thread, warp needs to wait on
>>> something, then you are not designing things right to begin with?
>>
>> Are you sure you even need FIFO? There is a really fast LIFO stack
>> that is also atomic. Now, for the GPU you should never have to
>> spinwait, or wait on anything. You need to be able to always have work
>> to do. There are certian patterns that work well. Its not like on the
>> CPU where we can wait in the kernel on conditions, ala futex or
>> something.
>
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| From | "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-01 14:50 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: NACK retransmission might double Manhattan Distance (Was: He uses "FIFO objects", and DMA and Noc) |
| Message-ID | <114lpm9$3vbk9$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #647078 |
On 8/1/2026 5:22 AM, Mild Shock wrote: > Hi, > > As easy as queues and FIFO objects might > sound. They don't like congestion. NACK for > retransmission might double the Manhattan Distance: [...] You are going to need a place to allocate nodes in the compute shader. Of course we can make a special texture to handle it. But, we need to strive to avoid a wait condition. I don't want a compute shader to spin. Yes, CAS can be used, but, try to make it be used as a "state machine", where the transitions from states are atomic. Try to avoid it making a loop, where we loop on failure.
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| From | Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-02 00:43 +0200 |
| Subject | I am using WebGPU, and not WebGL (Was: NACK retransmission might double Manhattan Distance) |
| Message-ID | <114lsqs$qdjc$1@solani.org> |
| In reply to | #647091 |
Hi, WebGPU and WebGL are two different things. I explained that towards you already like 3-5 times. > Of course we can make a special texture to handle it. You still don't understand that I am using WebGPU, and not WebGL. WebGPU has three improvements, that from your talking are missing in WebGL? - It has compute shaders - It has arrays - It has structs - What else? I didn't use structs in my example, although Gemini nearly forced me to use structs. But you could use a struct with fields and some of these arrays to represent a queue. But here in this example that is open source, I only used flat arrays. I nowhere needed to abuse textures to store something: 11.4 Giga Lips with a Budget Laptop https://github.com/Jean-Luc-Picard-2021/gigabudget You can study the source code, the arrays have CUDA inspired binding annotations but are not CUDA but rather WGSL: Hack VM as a Compute Shader in WGSL @group(0) @binding(0) var<storage, read> code: array<i32>; @group(0) @binding(1) var<storage, read_write> state: array<i32>; https://github.com/Jean-Luc-Picard-2021/gigabudget/blob/main/course/example63/boot.mjs You can say whether a buffer is read, or read_write. Buffers can be transfered from CPU to GPU, before running commands, and transfered back from GPU to CPU after running commands. The use case that you find on GitHub uses both. Namely also fetching results via a buffer, to then show them in the HTML page. Shouldn't be much a problem to run the example at home locally, all you need is a HTTPS server. But the example is not yet queues, but it already shows the foundation, which is WebGPU with its language WGSL and not WebGL with its language GLSL. These are two different things. I explained that towards you already like 3-5 times. Bye Chris M. Thomasson schrieb: > On 8/1/2026 5:22 AM, Mild Shock wrote: >> Hi, >> >> As easy as queues and FIFO objects might >> sound. They don't like congestion. NACK for >> retransmission might double the Manhattan Distance: > [...] > > You are going to need a place to allocate nodes in the compute shader. > Of course we can make a special texture to handle it. But, we need to > strive to avoid a wait condition. I don't want a compute shader to spin. > Yes, CAS can be used, but, try to make it be used as a "state machine", > where the transitions from states are atomic. Try to avoid it making a > loop, where we loop on failure. >
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| From | "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-01 16:02 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: I am using WebGPU, and not WebGL (Was: NACK retransmission might double Manhattan Distance) |
| Message-ID | <114lttk$sd5$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #647095 |
On 8/1/2026 3:43 PM, Mild Shock wrote: > Hi, > > WebGPU and WebGL are two different things. I explained > that towards you already like 3-5 times. > > > Of course we can make a special texture to handle it. > > You still don't understand that I am using WebGPU, > and not WebGL. WebGPU has three improvements, > that from your talking are missing in WebGL? > > - It has compute shaders > - It has arrays > - It has structs > - What else?[...] It has textures to work with in the pipeline. But, I still don't know what you main goal is?
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| From | Lane W <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-01 17:04 -0600 |
| Subject | Re: I am using WebGPU, and not WebGL (Was: NACK retransmission might double Manhattan Distance) |
| Message-ID | <114lu2c$t4i$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #647096 |
Chris M. Thomasson wrote: > On 8/1/2026 3:43 PM, Mild Shock wrote: >> Hi, >> >> WebGPU and WebGL are two different things. I explained >> that towards you already like 3-5 times. >> >> > Of course we can make a special texture to handle it. >> >> You still don't understand that I am using WebGPU, >> and not WebGL. WebGPU has three improvements, >> that from your talking are missing in WebGL? >> >> - It has compute shaders >> - It has arrays >> - It has structs >> - What else?[...] > > It has textures to work with in the pipeline. But, I still don't know > what you main goal is? His main goal is to deride you and "take over".
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| From | "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-02 14:45 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: I am using WebGPU, and not WebGL (Was: NACK retransmission might double Manhattan Distance) |
| Message-ID | <114odq3$qp0b$4@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #647097 |
On 8/1/2026 4:04 PM, Lane W wrote: > Chris M. Thomasson wrote: >> On 8/1/2026 3:43 PM, Mild Shock wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>> WebGPU and WebGL are two different things. I explained >>> that towards you already like 3-5 times. >>> >>> > Of course we can make a special texture to handle it. >>> >>> You still don't understand that I am using WebGPU, >>> and not WebGL. WebGPU has three improvements, >>> that from your talking are missing in WebGL? >>> >>> - It has compute shaders >>> - It has arrays >>> - It has structs >>> - What else?[...] >> >> It has textures to work with in the pipeline. But, I still don't know >> what you main goal is? > > His main goal is to deride you and "take over". Yup. Shit happens.
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| From | Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-02 23:56 +0200 |
| Subject | YOU ARE AN IDIOT (Was: I am using WebGPU, and not WebGL) |
| Message-ID | <114oeeh$rlg9$1@solani.org> |
| In reply to | #647119 |
YOU ARE AN IDIOT Chris M. Thomasson schrieb: > On 8/1/2026 4:04 PM, Lane W wrote: >> Chris M. Thomasson wrote: >>> On 8/1/2026 3:43 PM, Mild Shock wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> WebGPU and WebGL are two different things. I explained >>>> that towards you already like 3-5 times. >>>> >>>> > Of course we can make a special texture to handle it. >>>> >>>> You still don't understand that I am using WebGPU, >>>> and not WebGL. WebGPU has three improvements, >>>> that from your talking are missing in WebGL? >>>> >>>> - It has compute shaders >>>> - It has arrays >>>> - It has structs >>>> - What else?[...] >>> >>> It has textures to work with in the pipeline. But, I still don't know >>> what you main goal is? >> >> His main goal is to deride you and "take over". > > Yup. Shit happens.
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| From | Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-02 23:57 +0200 |
| Subject | YOU ARE AN IDIOT (Re: I am using WebGPU, and not WebGL) |
| Message-ID | <114oefn$rlg9$2@solani.org> |
| In reply to | #647119 |
YOU ARE AN IDIOT Chris M. Thomasson schrieb: > On 8/1/2026 4:04 PM, Lane W wrote: >> Chris M. Thomasson wrote: >>> On 8/1/2026 3:43 PM, Mild Shock wrote: >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> WebGPU and WebGL are two different things. I explained >>>> that towards you already like 3-5 times. >>>> >>>> > Of course we can make a special texture to handle it. >>>> >>>> You still don't understand that I am using WebGPU, >>>> and not WebGL. WebGPU has three improvements, >>>> that from your talking are missing in WebGL? >>>> >>>> - It has compute shaders >>>> - It has arrays >>>> - It has structs >>>> - What else?[...] >>> >>> It has textures to work with in the pipeline. But, I still don't know >>> what you main goal is? >> >> His main goal is to deride you and "take over". > > Yup. Shit happens.
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| From | Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-02 02:36 +0200 |
| Subject | Texture inside my compute shader makes no sense (Was: I am using WebGPU, and not WebGL) |
| Message-ID | <114m3e8$qh7p$1@solani.org> |
| In reply to | #647096 |
Hi, Why would I use text inside my compute shader. Could you tell me. The Hack VM doesn't do textures. You are confused. There is nothing about textures here: 11.4 Giga Lips with a Budget Laptop https://github.com/Jean-Luc-Picard-2021/gigabudget You can read the text , it says nowhere consume or produce textures. Its not a rendering application. I use the compute shader to run Prolog: "At the end of 2025 we acquired a couple of AI Laptops , that were still cheap, since RAM prices had not yet rocketed. The intend was to tap into the Copilot+ certified hardware, and shave off some of the TOPS to do Prolog inferencing. Amazingly our π-WAM can churn 11.4 GIGA LIPS. GPUs have evolved form lock-step to independent thread scheduling. This made it possible to port the Hack VM variant, that forms the basis for our π-WAM, to WebGPU computer shaders. Using NUM_SHADERS = 4096 we could produce 11.4 Giga Lips on a Ryzen AI 7 350 w/ Radeon 860M." Bye Chris M. Thomasson schrieb: > On 8/1/2026 3:43 PM, Mild Shock wrote: >> Hi, >> >> WebGPU and WebGL are two different things. I explained >> that towards you already like 3-5 times. >> >> > Of course we can make a special texture to handle it. >> >> You still don't understand that I am using WebGPU, >> and not WebGL. WebGPU has three improvements, >> that from your talking are missing in WebGL? >> >> - It has compute shaders >> - It has arrays >> - It has structs >> - What else?[...] > > It has textures to work with in the pipeline. But, I still don't know > what you main goal is?
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| From | Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-02 02:38 +0200 |
| Subject | Prolog inferencing and not canvasing fancy stuff (Was: Texture inside my compute shader makes no sense) |
| Message-ID | <114m3ie$qh7p$2@solani.org> |
| In reply to | #647098 |
Hi, It explicity says "Prolog inferencing" in this phrase: > shave off some of the TOPS to do Prolog inferencing It nowhere says draw some fancy stuff into a Web canvas. Bye Mild Shock schrieb: > Hi, > > Why would I use text inside my compute shader. > Could you tell me. The Hack VM doesn't do > textures. You are confused. There is nothing > > about textures here: > > 11.4 Giga Lips with a Budget Laptop > https://github.com/Jean-Luc-Picard-2021/gigabudget > > You can read the text , it says nowhere > consume or produce textures. Its not a rendering > application. I use the compute shader to run Prolog: > > "At the end of 2025 we acquired a couple of > AI Laptops , that were still cheap, since > RAM prices had not yet rocketed. The intend > was to tap into the Copilot+ certified hardware, > and shave off some of the TOPS to do Prolog > inferencing. Amazingly our π-WAM can > churn 11.4 GIGA LIPS. > > GPUs have evolved form lock-step to independent > thread scheduling. This made it possible to > port the Hack VM variant, that forms the basis > for our π-WAM, to WebGPU computer shaders. > Using NUM_SHADERS = 4096 we could produce > 11.4 Giga Lips on a Ryzen AI 7 350 w/ Radeon 860M." > > Bye > > Chris M. Thomasson schrieb: >> On 8/1/2026 3:43 PM, Mild Shock wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>> WebGPU and WebGL are two different things. I explained >>> that towards you already like 3-5 times. >>> >>> > Of course we can make a special texture to handle it. >>> >>> You still don't understand that I am using WebGPU, >>> and not WebGL. WebGPU has three improvements, >>> that from your talking are missing in WebGL? >>> >>> - It has compute shaders >>> - It has arrays >>> - It has structs >>> - What else?[...] >> >> It has textures to work with in the pipeline. But, I still don't know >> what you main goal is? >
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| From | "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-02 13:34 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: Prolog inferencing and not canvasing fancy stuff (Was: Texture inside my compute shader makes no sense) |
| Message-ID | <114o9k5$phmj$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #647099 |
On 8/1/2026 5:38 PM, Mild Shock wrote: > Hi, > > It explicity says "Prolog inferencing" in > this phrase: > > > shave off some of the TOPS to do Prolog inferencing > > It nowhere says draw some fancy stuff into > a Web canvas. Using texture(s) we can make the state(s) and have the compute shader use said formatted state. Computing vector fields is just one thing we can do. [...]>
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| From | "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2026-08-02 13:41 -0700 |
| Subject | Re: Prolog inferencing and not canvasing fancy stuff (Was: Texture inside my compute shader makes no sense) |
| Message-ID | <114oa26$pnej$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #647112 |
On 8/2/2026 1:34 PM, Chris M. Thomasson wrote: > On 8/1/2026 5:38 PM, Mild Shock wrote: >> Hi, >> >> It explicity says "Prolog inferencing" in >> this phrase: >> >> > shave off some of the TOPS to do Prolog inferencing >> >> It nowhere says draw some fancy stuff into >> a Web canvas. > > Using texture(s) we can make the state(s) and have the compute shader > use said formatted state. Computing vector fields is just one thing we > can do. > > [...]> > Use textures as a "memory"...
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