Groups > sci.physics.relativity > #671780

I am using WebGPU, and not WebGL (Was: NACK retransmission might double Manhattan Distance)

From	Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm>
Newsgroups	sci.physics.relativity, sci.math
Subject	I am using WebGPU, and not WebGL (Was: NACK retransmission might double Manhattan Distance)
Date	2026-08-02 00:43 +0200
Message-ID	<114lsqs$qdjc$1@solani.org> (permalink)
References	(21 earlier) <114kcni$3fhj3$1@dont-email.me> <114kcsr$3fhj3$2@dont-email.me> <114kg39$ouvh$1@solani.org> <114kodf$pkdq$1@solani.org> <114lpm9$3vbk9$2@dont-email.me>

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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Hi,

WebGPU and WebGL are two different things. I explained
that towards you already like 3-5 times.

 > Of course we can make a special texture to handle it.

You still don't understand that I am using WebGPU,
and not WebGL. WebGPU has three improvements,
that from your talking are missing in WebGL?

- It has compute shaders
- It has arrays
- It has structs
- What else?

I didn't use structs in my example, although Gemini
nearly forced me to use structs. But you could
use a struct with fields and some of these arrays

to represent a queue. But here in this example
that is open source, I only used flat arrays. I
nowhere needed to abuse textures to store something:

11.4 Giga Lips with a Budget Laptop
https://github.com/Jean-Luc-Picard-2021/gigabudget

You can study the source code, the arrays have
CUDA inspired binding annotations but are not
CUDA but rather WGSL:

Hack VM as a Compute Shader in WGSL
@group(0) @binding(0) var<storage, read> code: array<i32>;
@group(0) @binding(1) var<storage, read_write> state: array<i32>;
https://github.com/Jean-Luc-Picard-2021/gigabudget/blob/main/course/example63/boot.mjs

You can say whether a buffer is read, or read_write.
Buffers can be transfered from CPU to GPU, before
running commands, and transfered back from GPU to

CPU after running commands. The use case that
you find on GitHub uses both. Namely also fetching
results via a buffer, to then show them in

the HTML page. Shouldn't be much a problem to
run the example at home locally, all you need is
a HTTPS server. But the example is not yet queues,

but it already shows the foundation, which is WebGPU
with its language WGSL and not WebGL with its language
GLSL. These are two different things.

I explained that towards you already like 3-5 times.

Bye

Chris M. Thomasson schrieb:
> On 8/1/2026 5:22 AM, Mild Shock wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> As easy as queues and FIFO objects might
>> sound. They don't like congestion. NACK for
>> retransmission might double the Manhattan Distance:
> [...]
> 
> You are going to need a place to allocate nodes in the compute shader. 
> Of course we can make a special texture to handle it. But, we need to 
> strive to avoid a wait condition. I don't want a compute shader to spin. 
> Yes, CAS can be used, but, try to make it be used as a "state machine", 
> where the transitions from states are atomic. Try to avoid it making a 
> loop, where we loop on failure.
>

Thread

I'm a spinner, I'm a sinner [Dmitry Vyukov for pi-WAM] (Was: Paul Tarau versus Mr. Taskmanager, who would win? [A PDP-11 Humunkulus from 1979]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-19 11:53 +0200
  Corr.: Re: I'm a spinner, I'm a sinner [Dmitry Vyukov for pi-WAM] (Was: Paul Tarau versus Mr. Taskmanager, who would win? [A PDP-11 Humunkulus from 1979]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-19 11:55 +0200
  Re: I'm a spinner, I'm a sinner [Dmitry Vyukov for pi-WAM] (Was: Paul Tarau versus Mr. Taskmanager, who would win? [A PDP-11 Humunkulus from 1979]) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-07-19 14:04 -0700
    Re: I'm a spinner, I'm a sinner [Dmitry Vyukov for pi-WAM] (Was: Paul Tarau versus Mr. Taskmanager, who would win? [A PDP-11 Humunkulus from 1979]) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-07-19 14:07 -0700
      Gemini, DeepSeek, OpenAI all know Dmitriy V'jukov (Was: I'm a spinner, I'm a sinner [Dmitry Vyukov for pi-WAM]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-20 08:31 +0200
        Re: Gemini, DeepSeek, OpenAI all know Dmitriy V'jukov (Was: I'm a spinner, I'm a sinner [Dmitry Vyukov for pi-WAM]) Romelio Balakhonsky <lrel@lao.ru> - 2026-07-20 10:07 +0000
          The Cache Identity Crisis by Micro Penis (Re: Gemini, DeepSeek, OpenAI all know Dmitriy V'jukov) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-20 13:51 +0200
            Just RTFM the RDNA 3.5 specs! [GPU Cache Lines] (Was: The Cache Identity Crisis by Micro Penis) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-20 14:09 +0200
              The large memory tax: ECC RAM (Was: Just RTFM the RDNA 3.5 specs! [GPU Cache Lines]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-20 14:22 +0200
              Friendly Reminder: GPU 10x more performant than CPU (Re: Just RTFM the RDNA 3.5 specs! [GPU Cache Lines]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-21 00:40 +0200
                Breaking the CUDA edge in AI by WebGPU (Re: Friendly Reminder: GPU 10x more performant than CPU) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-21 00:57 +0200
                Like WebAssembly before it, WebGPU has "escaped" the browser. (Re: Breaking the CUDA edge in AI by WebGPU (Re: Friendly Reminder: GPU 10x more performant than CPU) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-21 01:07 +0200
                Re: Breaking the CUDA edge in AI by WebGPU (Re: Friendly Reminder: GPU 10x more performant than CPU) Will Bakshandaev <bev@lwesi.ru> - 2026-07-21 14:33 +0000
                http://localhost:567921/ is a private REST endpoint [Teaching Micro Penis Vilage Idiot] (Was: Breaking the CUDA edge in AI by WebGPU) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-21 22:41 +0200
                If you are paranoid you can use Falco [Agentic AI] (Re: http://localhost:567921/ is a private REST endpoint) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-21 22:57 +0200
                What would an EMACs guru say [Windows Recall] (Was: If you are paranoid you can use Falco [Agentic AI]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-21 23:33 +0200
                Re: http://localhost:567921/ is a private REST endpoint [Teaching Micro Penis Vilage Idiot] (Was: Breaking the CUDA edge in AI by WebGPU) Hants Baibikov <vi@bi.ru> - 2026-07-21 21:51 +0000
                Re: http://localhost:567921/ is a private REST endpoint [Teaching Micro Penis Vilage Idiot] (Was: Breaking the CUDA edge in AI by WebGPU) Pascual Talbaev <ps@laalapa.ru> - 2026-07-21 22:02 +0000
                Decide what you critique tiny winy penis (Was: http://localhost:567921/ is a private REST endpoint) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-22 08:13 +0200
                How confused is tiny winy penis? (Re: Decide what you critique tiny winy penis) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-22 08:29 +0200
                Maybe change your hobby, become a dog owner? (Re: How confused is tiny winy penis?) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-22 09:38 +0200
                Re: Decide what you critique tiny winy penis (Was: http://localhost:567921/ is a private REST endpoint) Audie Balaban <aie@ndabl.ru> - 2026-07-22 08:02 +0000
                Even dogs know Switzerland != Germany [Syphilis Brain Micro Penis] (Re: Decide what you critique tiny winy penis (Was: http://localhost:567921/ is a private REST endpoint) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-22 11:17 +0200
                Re: Even dogs know Switzerland != Germany [Syphilis Brain Micro Penis] (Re: Decide what you critique tiny winy penis (Was: http://localhost:567921/ is a private REST endpoint) Roque Bahtinov <aoqhi@hrot.ru> - 2026-07-22 12:04 +0000
                My Swift Go 16 AI has no IMEI, are you nuts? (Was: Even dogs know Switzerland != Germany [Syphilis Brain Micro Penis]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-22 14:12 +0200
                Same nickname and email, could post faster [5 year old moron] (Re: My Swift Go 16 AI has no IMEI, are you nuts?) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-22 14:24 +0200
                Re: My Swift Go 16 AI has no IMEI, are you nuts? (Was: Even dogs know Switzerland != Germany [Syphilis Brain Micro Penis]) Randolf Mukanov <mfroa@unvfo.ru> - 2026-07-22 12:27 +0000
                I have nothing to hide, you can find me in search.ch (Was: My Swift Go 16 AI has no IMEI, are you nuts?) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-22 14:31 +0200
                Re: I have nothing to hide, you can find me in search.ch (Was: My Swift Go 16 AI has no IMEI, are you nuts?) Keiv Babenchikov <hi@babebek.ru> - 2026-07-22 12:35 +0000
                Where did I confirm German via .ch, you are more than nuts! (Was: I have nothing to hide, you can find me in search.ch) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-22 14:46 +0200
                Ask a Ukrainian Neighbour to do Detective [CCCP Troll] (Was: Where did I confirm German via .ch, you are more than nuts!) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-22 14:51 +0200
                Re: Ask a Ukrainian Neighbour to do Detective [CCCP Troll] (Was: Where did I confirm German via .ch, you are more than nuts!) Hudson Patrianakos <nrin@odrtta.gr> - 2026-07-22 16:10 +0000
            Re: The Cache Identity Crisis by Micro Penis (Re: Gemini, DeepSeek, OpenAI all know Dmitriy V'jukov) Jeiker Makulov <rmkru@eeeamu.ru> - 2026-07-20 16:18 +0000
              L1,..,Ln caches are located on the CPU AND on the GPU (Was: The Cache Identity Crisis by Micro Penis) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-20 19:33 +0200
                GPU Cache Hierarchy: Understanding L1, L2, and VRAM (Re: L1,..,Ln caches are located on the CPU AND on the GPU) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-20 19:42 +0200
                Re: GPU Cache Hierarchy: Understanding L1, L2, and VRAM (Re: L1,..,Ln caches are located on the CPU AND on the GPU) Zackee Mulatov <azauv@omtla.ru> - 2026-07-20 19:09 +0000
                Well thats good, co-location, onto the same processor die (Was: GPU Cache Hierarchy: Understanding L1, L2, and VRAM) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-20 22:02 +0200
                Where is micro penis mental error? (Re: Well thats good, co-location, onto the same processor die) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-20 22:07 +0200
                Re: Well thats good, co-location, onto the same processor die (Was: GPU Cache Hierarchy: Understanding L1, L2, and VRAM) Hermis Molochkov <me@olech.ru> - 2026-07-20 22:27 +0000
        Re: Gemini, DeepSeek, OpenAI all know Dmitriy V'jukov (Was: I'm a spinner, I'm a sinner [Dmitry Vyukov for pi-WAM]) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-07-20 13:40 -0700
          I didn't find Futex in WebGPU / WGSL (Was: Gemini, DeepSeek, OpenAI all know Dmitriy V'jukov) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-20 23:25 +0200
            Re: I didn't find Futex in WebGPU / WGSL (Was: Gemini, DeepSeek, OpenAI all know Dmitriy V'jukov) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-07-20 14:32 -0700
              Re: I didn't find Futex in WebGPU / WGSL (Was: Gemini, DeepSeek, OpenAI all know Dmitriy V'jukov) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-07-20 14:35 -0700
                There is no imageAtomicAdd in WGSL (Was: I didn't find Futex in WebGPU / WGSL) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-21 00:12 +0200
                OpenGL is dead. Apple said bye bye / Wayland Compositor (Was: There is no imageAtomicAdd in WGSL) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-21 00:24 +0200
                Re: There is no imageAtomicAdd in WGSL (Was: I didn't find Futex in WebGPU / WGSL) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-07-20 16:15 -0700
                Flogging a Dead Horse, OpenGL is EOL (Was: There is no imageAtomicAdd in WGSL) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-21 01:24 +0200
                imageAtomicAdd trivial, Dmitry Vyukov requires capacity (Re: Flogging a Dead Horse, OpenGL is EOL (Was: There is no imageAtomicAdd in WGSL) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-21 01:32 +0200
                capacity = 2^n for some n / systolic system (Was: imageAtomicAdd trivial, Dmitry Vyukov requires capacity) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-21 01:37 +0200
                Source of the benchmark for DmitryVyukov (Re: capacity = 2^n for some n / systolic system) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-21 01:45 +0200
                Re: imageAtomicAdd trivial, Dmitry Vyukov requires capacity (Re: Flogging a Dead Horse, OpenGL is EOL (Was: There is no imageAtomicAdd in WGSL) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-07-20 17:00 -0700
                I never used OpenGL Version 4.2 and later (Re: imageAtomicAdd trivial, Dmitry Vyukov requires capacity) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-21 08:49 +0200
                Because of MIMD you have to reassess algorithms (Was: I never used OpenGL Version 4.2 and later) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-21 08:59 +0200
                Why MIMD is interesting for pi-WAM? Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-21 09:16 +0200
                Re: Why MIMD is interesting for pi-WAM? Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-21 00:32 -0700
                Re: Because of MIMD you have to reassess algorithms (Was: I never used OpenGL Version 4.2 and later) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-21 00:42 -0700
                You still don't understand "budget" [Rossy Boy slower than Micro Penis] (Was: Because of MIMD you have to reassess algorithms) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-21 10:13 +0200
                Go on Rossy Boy, ask more stupid questions (Was: You still don't understand "budget" [Rossy Boy slower than Micro Penis]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-21 10:17 +0200
                Need to be Einstein to understand Giga Lips (Was: Go on Rossy Boy, ask more stupid questions) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-21 10:22 +0200
                Marketing invents Gucci Bag AI Laptops (Was: Need to be Einstein to understand Giga Lips) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-21 10:43 +0200
                Re: Go on Rossy Boy, ask more stupid questions (Was: You still don't understand "budget" [Rossy Boy slower than Micro Penis]) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-21 08:59 -0700
                Rossy Boy says I am a crazy frothing lunatic (Was: Go on Rossy Boy, ask more stupid questions) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-21 22:27 +0200
                Re: Rossy Boy says I am a crazy frothing lunatic (Was: Go on Rossy Boy, ask more stupid questions) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-21 13:52 -0700
                Do you see the loops, in C code and in Java code? /** Looping **/ (Re: Because of MIMD you have to reassess algorithms) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-23 00:10 +0200
                Re: Do you see the loops, in C code and in Java code? /** Looping **/ (Re: Because of MIMD you have to reassess algorithms) Lane W <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> - 2026-07-22 16:23 -0600
                regreting not using a contraceptive (Was: Do you see the loops, in C code and in Java code? /** Looping **/) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-23 00:51 +0200
                Re: regreting not using a contraceptive (Was: Do you see the loops, in C code and in Java code? /** Looping **/) Lane W <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> - 2026-07-22 17:13 -0600
                Re: regreting not using a contraceptive (Was: Do you see the loops, in C code and in Java code? /** Looping **/) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-07-22 18:23 -0700
                Re: regreting not using a contraceptive (Was: Do you see the loops, in C code and in Java code? /** Looping **/) Clerence Bakhvalov <eael@eheav.ru> - 2026-07-23 13:06 +0000
                Re: Do you see the loops, in C code and in Java code? /** Looping **/ (Re: Because of MIMD you have to reassess algorithms) Kayce Pakhmutov <vop@ktevkh.ru> - 2026-07-23 13:01 +0000
                Re: Do you see the loops, in C code and in Java code? /** Looping **/ (Re: Because of MIMD you have to reassess algorithms) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-07-23 13:19 -0700
                Why do you even need a mpmc queue? [Thunder Kittens] (Re Do you see the loops, in C code and in Java code? /** Looping **/) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-24 14:43 +0200
                What does pi in pi-WAM mean? (Re: Why do you even need a mpmc queue? [Thunder Kittens]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-24 14:52 +0200
                OR-parallelism or AND-parallelism? [MapReduce] (Re: What does pi in pi-WAM mean?) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-24 15:02 +0200
                Re: What does pi in pi-WAM mean? (Re: Why do you even need a mpmc queue? [Thunder Kittens]) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-07-24 11:01 -0700
                It is all on GitHub , for the 100-th time! (Was: What does pi in pi-WAM mean?) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-24 20:10 +0200
                Re: Why do you even need a mpmc queue? [Thunder Kittens] (Re Do you see the loops, in C code and in Java code? /** Looping **/) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-24 15:54 -0700
                And, where did I talk about rockets? [Hint its about xAI's Grok] (Was: Why do you even need a mpmc queue? [Thunder Kittens]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-25 01:23 +0200
                Re: And, where did I talk about rockets? [Hint its about xAI's Grok] (Was: Why do you even need a mpmc queue? [Thunder Kittens]) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-24 21:20 -0700
                Re: And, where did I talk about rockets? [Hint its about xAI's Grok] (Was: Why do you even need a mpmc queue? [Thunder Kittens]) Ross Finlayson <ross.a.finlayson@gmail.com> - 2026-07-24 21:23 -0700
                Why forget something, that was never on my mind (Was: And, where did I talk about rockets?) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-25 09:47 +0200
                Example Mandel Brot rendering [Faster with MIMD] (Re: Why do you even need a mpmc queue? [Thunder Kittens]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-07-25 09:57 +0200
                Re: Why do you even need a mpmc queue? [Thunder Kittens] (Re Do you see the loops, in C code and in Java code? /** Looping **/) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-01 02:02 -0700
                Re: Why do you even need a mpmc queue? [Thunder Kittens] (Re Do you see the loops, in C code and in Java code? /** Looping **/) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-01 02:05 -0700
                He uses "FIFO objects", and DMA and Noc [Glimps into Ryzen AI 7 350] (Was: Why do you even need a mpmc queue? [Thunder Kittens]) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-01 12:00 +0200
                NACK retransmission might double Manhattan Distance (Was: He uses "FIFO objects", and DMA and Noc) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-01 14:22 +0200
                Re: NACK retransmission might double Manhattan Distance (Was: He uses "FIFO objects", and DMA and Noc) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-01 14:50 -0700
                I am using WebGPU, and not WebGL (Was: NACK retransmission might double Manhattan Distance) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-02 00:43 +0200
                Re: I am using WebGPU, and not WebGL (Was: NACK retransmission might double Manhattan Distance) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-01 16:02 -0700
                Re: I am using WebGPU, and not WebGL (Was: NACK retransmission might double Manhattan Distance) Lane W <cactus_DAC@yahoo.com> - 2026-08-01 17:04 -0600
                Re: I am using WebGPU, and not WebGL (Was: NACK retransmission might double Manhattan Distance) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-02 14:45 -0700
                YOU ARE AN IDIOT (Was: I am using WebGPU, and not WebGL) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-02 23:56 +0200
                YOU ARE AN IDIOT (Re: I am using WebGPU, and not WebGL) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-02 23:57 +0200
                Texture inside my compute shader makes no sense (Was: I am using WebGPU, and not WebGL) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-02 02:36 +0200
                Prolog inferencing and not canvasing fancy stuff (Was: Texture inside my compute shader makes no sense) Mild Shock <janburse@fastmail.fm> - 2026-08-02 02:38 +0200
                Re: Prolog inferencing and not canvasing fancy stuff (Was: Texture inside my compute shader makes no sense) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-02 13:34 -0700
                Re: Prolog inferencing and not canvasing fancy stuff (Was: Texture inside my compute shader makes no sense) "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2026-08-02 13:41 -0700

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