Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]
Groups > sci.electronics.design > #460702 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2017-05-17 14:33 -0700 |
| Last post | 2017-07-13 07:43 -0700 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 80 — 19 participants |
Back to article view | Back to sci.electronics.design
5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> - 2017-05-17 14:33 -0700
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-05-17 15:09 -0700
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> - 2017-05-31 07:39 -0700
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> - 2017-05-18 01:21 -0500
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> - 2017-05-31 07:30 -0700
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers oldschool@tubes.com - 2017-05-18 08:34 -0400
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> - 2017-05-18 10:07 -0700
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Klaus Kragelund <klauskvik@hotmail.com> - 2017-05-18 10:53 -0700
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers speff <spehro@gmail.com> - 2017-05-18 12:59 -0700
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers habib <h.bouazizviallet@free.fr> - 2017-05-31 22:03 +0200
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-05-31 13:22 -0700
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers habib <h.bouazizviallet@free.fr> - 2017-05-31 23:04 +0200
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-05-31 15:57 -0700
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-06-01 07:47 +0000
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-06-01 07:13 -0700
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-06-01 14:28 +0000
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Klaus Kragelund <klauskvik@hotmail.com> - 2017-06-01 07:42 -0700
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Klaus Kragelund <klauskvik@hotmail.com> - 2017-06-01 07:43 -0700
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-06-01 08:47 -0700
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers klaus.kragelund@gmail.com - 2017-06-02 01:25 -0700
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-06-02 07:59 -0700
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-06-02 09:21 -0700
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-06-02 09:32 -0700
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-06-02 10:08 -0700
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-06-02 10:21 -0700
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-06-02 10:46 -0700
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-06-02 17:54 +0000
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-06-02 11:02 -0700
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-06-02 11:05 -0700
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-06-02 18:16 +0000
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-06-02 11:32 -0700
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-06-02 12:15 -0700
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-06-02 12:43 -0700
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers klaus.kragelund@gmail.com - 2017-06-02 10:04 -0700
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-06-02 10:54 -0700
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> - 2017-06-02 17:35 -0500
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-06-02 15:56 -0700
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-06-01 17:44 +0300
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-06-01 14:57 +0000
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> - 2017-06-01 08:05 -0700
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-06-01 08:45 -0700
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-06-01 16:07 +0000
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-06-02 11:08 -0700
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-06-02 11:37 -0700
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Klaus Kragelund <klauskvik@hotmail.com> - 2017-06-01 07:33 -0700
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-06-01 14:56 +0000
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-06-01 12:08 +0300
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers habib.bouaziz@gmail.com - 2017-06-01 04:12 -0700
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-06-01 07:15 -0700
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-18 20:08 +0000
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-05-19 00:03 +0300
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-05-18 14:12 -0700
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-05-31 10:48 -0700
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers habib <h.bouazizviallet@free.fr> - 2017-05-31 21:50 +0200
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-05-31 12:57 -0700
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers habib <h.bouazizviallet@free.fr> - 2017-05-31 22:10 +0200
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-06-01 13:09 -0700
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers habib <h.bouazizviallet@free.fr> - 2017-06-01 23:17 +0200
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-06-01 14:35 -0700
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers habib.bouaziz@gmail.com - 2017-06-02 07:01 -0700
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> - 2017-06-02 08:44 -0700
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-06-02 09:19 -0700
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> - 2017-06-02 11:18 -0700
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-06-02 09:28 -0700
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-06-02 09:35 -0700
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-06-02 11:16 -0700
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> - 2017-06-02 14:02 -0700
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-06-02 14:36 -0700
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-06-02 16:08 -0700
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-06-02 16:46 +0000
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers habib <h.bouazizviallet@free.fr> - 2017-06-02 23:13 +0200
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-06-02 14:39 -0700
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers habib <h.bouazizviallet@free.fr> - 2017-06-03 09:47 +0200
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers klaus.kragelund@gmail.com - 2017-06-03 04:28 -0700
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2017-06-07 20:03 +0000
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> - 2017-06-08 10:12 -0700
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-07-13 07:35 -0700
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Terry <respect__privacy@hotmail.com> - 2017-06-02 06:06 -0700
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-06-02 09:27 -0700
Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com - 2017-07-13 07:43 -0700
Page 2 of 4 — ← Prev page 1 [2] 3 4 Next page →
| From | John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-06-02 07:59 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <p7v2jc1u85ehj03h1o9heqi249171vhmtl@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #462663 |
On Fri, 2 Jun 2017 01:25:31 -0700 (PDT), klaus.kragelund@gmail.com wrote: >On Thursday, 1 June 2017 17:48:03 UTC+2, John Larkin wrote: >> On Thu, 1 Jun 2017 07:43:14 -0700 (PDT), Klaus Kragelund >> <klauskvik@hotmail.com> wrote: >> >> >On Thursday, June 1, 2017 at 4:42:53 PM UTC+2, Klaus Kragelund wrote: >> >> On Thursday, June 1, 2017 at 4:28:38 PM UTC+2, Jan Panteltje wrote: >> >> > On a sunny day (Thu, 01 Jun 2017 07:13:56 -0700) it happened John Larkin >> >> > <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in >> >> > <v180jc9cjq7vv5s5bhg3lieqpsnkvdt7m6@4ax.com>: >> >> > >> >> > >I assume that Win needs to couple the gate drive power as well as the >> >> > >signal. Optical is fine for signal, but an expensive way to couple >> >> > >much power. >> >> > >> >> > True, like I said, big Edison style bulb, small solar cells. >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >Anything that's 10KV can pick up dust and make corona, PCB or >> >> > >whatever. >> >> > > >> >> > >I think one could transfer ballpark one watt through a PCB in roughly >> >> > >a square inch without a core. That's a guess. >> >> > >> >> > Oh much more, >> >> > 100 W should be no problem, use a planar coil for the top one that works even better, >> >> > like this: >> >> > http://panteltje.com/pub/inductive_coupling_real_power_300Vpp_IMG_6092.JPG >> >> > >> >> > Your traces need to be thick enough and the coil area large enough, that is all. >> >> >> >> I have seen a coreless spiral PCB transformer rated at 50W. But, it's kind off big (about 40mm diameter). Operation at 8MHz >> >> >> >> Cheers >> >> >> >> Klaus >> > >> >One example: >> > >> >http://waset.org/publications/5540/coreless-printed-circuit-board-pcb-stepdown-transformers-for-dc-dc-converter-applications >> >> The vias are tricky in a high-voltage application, getting the winding >> ends out. A wire jumper, or some long surface-mount equivalent, would >> help. Like, a really long zero-ohm jumper. >> >Ever heard of burried vias? Sure. How would you use them to make coils on both sides of a board? Seems to me that you'd give up insulation clearances. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc lunatic fringe electronics
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-06-02 09:21 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <epdhklF87v0U2@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #462677 |
On 2017-06-02 07:59, John Larkin wrote: > On Fri, 2 Jun 2017 01:25:31 -0700 (PDT), klaus.kragelund@gmail.com > wrote: > >> On Thursday, 1 June 2017 17:48:03 UTC+2, John Larkin wrote: >>> On Thu, 1 Jun 2017 07:43:14 -0700 (PDT), Klaus Kragelund >>> <klauskvik@hotmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> On Thursday, June 1, 2017 at 4:42:53 PM UTC+2, Klaus Kragelund wrote: >>>>> On Thursday, June 1, 2017 at 4:28:38 PM UTC+2, Jan Panteltje wrote: >>>>>> On a sunny day (Thu, 01 Jun 2017 07:13:56 -0700) it happened John Larkin >>>>>> <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in >>>>>> <v180jc9cjq7vv5s5bhg3lieqpsnkvdt7m6@4ax.com>: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I assume that Win needs to couple the gate drive power as well as the >>>>>>> signal. Optical is fine for signal, but an expensive way to couple >>>>>>> much power. >>>>>> >>>>>> True, like I said, big Edison style bulb, small solar cells. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Anything that's 10KV can pick up dust and make corona, PCB or >>>>>>> whatever. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I think one could transfer ballpark one watt through a PCB in roughly >>>>>>> a square inch without a core. That's a guess. >>>>>> >>>>>> Oh much more, >>>>>> 100 W should be no problem, use a planar coil for the top one that works even better, >>>>>> like this: >>>>>> http://panteltje.com/pub/inductive_coupling_real_power_300Vpp_IMG_6092.JPG >>>>>> >>>>>> Your traces need to be thick enough and the coil area large enough, that is all. >>>>> >>>>> I have seen a coreless spiral PCB transformer rated at 50W. But, it's kind off big (about 40mm diameter). Operation at 8MHz >>>>> >>>>> Cheers >>>>> >>>>> Klaus >>>> >>>> One example: >>>> >>>> http://waset.org/publications/5540/coreless-printed-circuit-board-pcb-stepdown-transformers-for-dc-dc-converter-applications >>> >>> The vias are tricky in a high-voltage application, getting the winding >>> ends out. A wire jumper, or some long surface-mount equivalent, would >>> help. Like, a really long zero-ohm jumper. >>> >> Ever heard of burried vias? > > Sure. How would you use them to make coils on both sides of a board? > Seems to me that you'd give up insulation clearances. > It can help to bury the coils or at least the HV-side coil one layer down into the board to avoid St.Elmo's fire. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-06-02 09:32 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <mi43jchu0dab470tb8ksmn1ng084bm627u@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #462684 |
On Fri, 02 Jun 2017 09:21:53 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> wrote: >On 2017-06-02 07:59, John Larkin wrote: >> On Fri, 2 Jun 2017 01:25:31 -0700 (PDT), klaus.kragelund@gmail.com >> wrote: >> >>> On Thursday, 1 June 2017 17:48:03 UTC+2, John Larkin wrote: >>>> On Thu, 1 Jun 2017 07:43:14 -0700 (PDT), Klaus Kragelund >>>> <klauskvik@hotmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Thursday, June 1, 2017 at 4:42:53 PM UTC+2, Klaus Kragelund wrote: >>>>>> On Thursday, June 1, 2017 at 4:28:38 PM UTC+2, Jan Panteltje wrote: >>>>>>> On a sunny day (Thu, 01 Jun 2017 07:13:56 -0700) it happened John Larkin >>>>>>> <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in >>>>>>> <v180jc9cjq7vv5s5bhg3lieqpsnkvdt7m6@4ax.com>: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I assume that Win needs to couple the gate drive power as well as the >>>>>>>> signal. Optical is fine for signal, but an expensive way to couple >>>>>>>> much power. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> True, like I said, big Edison style bulb, small solar cells. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Anything that's 10KV can pick up dust and make corona, PCB or >>>>>>>> whatever. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I think one could transfer ballpark one watt through a PCB in roughly >>>>>>>> a square inch without a core. That's a guess. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Oh much more, >>>>>>> 100 W should be no problem, use a planar coil for the top one that works even better, >>>>>>> like this: >>>>>>> http://panteltje.com/pub/inductive_coupling_real_power_300Vpp_IMG_6092.JPG >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Your traces need to be thick enough and the coil area large enough, that is all. >>>>>> >>>>>> I have seen a coreless spiral PCB transformer rated at 50W. But, it's kind off big (about 40mm diameter). Operation at 8MHz >>>>>> >>>>>> Cheers >>>>>> >>>>>> Klaus >>>>> >>>>> One example: >>>>> >>>>> http://waset.org/publications/5540/coreless-printed-circuit-board-pcb-stepdown-transformers-for-dc-dc-converter-applications >>>> >>>> The vias are tricky in a high-voltage application, getting the winding >>>> ends out. A wire jumper, or some long surface-mount equivalent, would >>>> help. Like, a really long zero-ohm jumper. >>>> >>> Ever heard of burried vias? >> >> Sure. How would you use them to make coils on both sides of a board? >> Seems to me that you'd give up insulation clearances. >> > >It can help to bury the coils or at least the HV-side coil one layer >down into the board to avoid St.Elmo's fire. The max dielectric spacing would be with the coils on the outer layers. All the HV-side circuitry is subject to corona, with the flat secondary coil the least likely component to glow in the dark. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc lunatic fringe electronics
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-06-02 10:08 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <epdkb9F8su9U1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #462688 |
On 2017-06-02 09:32, John Larkin wrote: > On Fri, 02 Jun 2017 09:21:53 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> > wrote: > >> On 2017-06-02 07:59, John Larkin wrote: >>> On Fri, 2 Jun 2017 01:25:31 -0700 (PDT), klaus.kragelund@gmail.com >>> wrote: >>> >>>> On Thursday, 1 June 2017 17:48:03 UTC+2, John Larkin wrote: >>>>> On Thu, 1 Jun 2017 07:43:14 -0700 (PDT), Klaus Kragelund >>>>> <klauskvik@hotmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On Thursday, June 1, 2017 at 4:42:53 PM UTC+2, Klaus Kragelund wrote: >>>>>>> On Thursday, June 1, 2017 at 4:28:38 PM UTC+2, Jan Panteltje wrote: >>>>>>>> On a sunny day (Thu, 01 Jun 2017 07:13:56 -0700) it happened John Larkin >>>>>>>> <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in >>>>>>>> <v180jc9cjq7vv5s5bhg3lieqpsnkvdt7m6@4ax.com>: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I assume that Win needs to couple the gate drive power as well as the >>>>>>>>> signal. Optical is fine for signal, but an expensive way to couple >>>>>>>>> much power. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> True, like I said, big Edison style bulb, small solar cells. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Anything that's 10KV can pick up dust and make corona, PCB or >>>>>>>>> whatever. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I think one could transfer ballpark one watt through a PCB in roughly >>>>>>>>> a square inch without a core. That's a guess. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Oh much more, >>>>>>>> 100 W should be no problem, use a planar coil for the top one that works even better, >>>>>>>> like this: >>>>>>>> http://panteltje.com/pub/inductive_coupling_real_power_300Vpp_IMG_6092.JPG >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Your traces need to be thick enough and the coil area large enough, that is all. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I have seen a coreless spiral PCB transformer rated at 50W. But, it's kind off big (about 40mm diameter). Operation at 8MHz >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Cheers >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Klaus >>>>>> >>>>>> One example: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://waset.org/publications/5540/coreless-printed-circuit-board-pcb-stepdown-transformers-for-dc-dc-converter-applications >>>>> >>>>> The vias are tricky in a high-voltage application, getting the winding >>>>> ends out. A wire jumper, or some long surface-mount equivalent, would >>>>> help. Like, a really long zero-ohm jumper. >>>>> >>>> Ever heard of burried vias? >>> >>> Sure. How would you use them to make coils on both sides of a board? >>> Seems to me that you'd give up insulation clearances. >>> >> >> It can help to bury the coils or at least the HV-side coil one layer >> down into the board to avoid St.Elmo's fire. > > The max dielectric spacing would be with the coils on the outer > layers. All the HV-side circuitry is subject to corona, with the flat > secondary coil the least likely component to glow in the dark. > Depends on where it goes. If the FET that it drives is all potted up that would just leave the coil. Unless you also pot that which is always an option. Then there is the risk of touching. On one of my HV designs I had to be the first one bitten. The Chinese engineer who was with me laughed and said "See, you should have included a warning in German, not just English and Spanish". -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-06-02 10:21 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <kh73jcpe1vl0q4stcidjukl3p5lmq1r5nu@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #462704 |
On Fri, 02 Jun 2017 10:08:03 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
wrote:
[snip]
>
>Then there is the risk of touching. On one of my HV designs I had to be
>the first one bitten. The Chinese engineer who was with me laughed and
>said "See, you should have included a warning in German, not just
>English and Spanish".
When I was doing ignition system designs (~1968), I got blown off of a
lab stool onto my butt... producing great laughter from the
technicians ;-)
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| STV, Queen Creek, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
Thinking outside the box... producing elegant solutions.
"It is not in doing what you like, but in liking what you do that
is the secret of happiness." -James Barrie
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-06-02 10:46 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <epdmikF9djaU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #462708 |
On 2017-06-02 10:21, Jim Thompson wrote: > On Fri, 02 Jun 2017 10:08:03 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> > wrote: > > [snip] >> >> Then there is the risk of touching. On one of my HV designs I had to be >> the first one bitten. The Chinese engineer who was with me laughed and >> said "See, you should have included a warning in German, not just >> English and Spanish". > > When I was doing ignition system designs (~1968), I got blown off of a > lab stool onto my butt... producing great laughter from the > technicians ;-) > I put a long crack into a sturdy wood cabinet door (the good stuff, custom-made by a carpenter) when flying off the chair after touching HV. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-06-02 17:54 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <ogs8os$135g$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #462712 |
On a sunny day (Fri, 02 Jun 2017 10:46:06 -0700) it happened Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> wrote in <epdmikF9djaU1@mid.individual.net>: >On 2017-06-02 10:21, Jim Thompson wrote: >> On Fri, 02 Jun 2017 10:08:03 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> >> wrote: >> >> [snip] >>> >>> Then there is the risk of touching. On one of my HV designs I had to be >>> the first one bitten. The Chinese engineer who was with me laughed and >>> said "See, you should have included a warning in German, not just >>> English and Spanish". >> >> When I was doing ignition system designs (~1968), I got blown off of a >> lab stool onto my butt... producing great laughter from the >> technicians ;-) >> > >I put a long crack into a sturdy wood cabinet door (the good stuff, >custom-made by a carpenter) when flying off the chair after touching HV. Next one up could .. but you must have read Baron Von Munchausen...
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-06-02 11:02 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <mi93jc5fvk1gfdltqov7r5p5043p2eckgk@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #462704 |
On Fri, 02 Jun 2017 10:08:03 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> wrote: >On 2017-06-02 09:32, John Larkin wrote: >> On Fri, 02 Jun 2017 09:21:53 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> >> wrote: >> >>> On 2017-06-02 07:59, John Larkin wrote: >>>> On Fri, 2 Jun 2017 01:25:31 -0700 (PDT), klaus.kragelund@gmail.com >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Thursday, 1 June 2017 17:48:03 UTC+2, John Larkin wrote: >>>>>> On Thu, 1 Jun 2017 07:43:14 -0700 (PDT), Klaus Kragelund >>>>>> <klauskvik@hotmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thursday, June 1, 2017 at 4:42:53 PM UTC+2, Klaus Kragelund wrote: >>>>>>>> On Thursday, June 1, 2017 at 4:28:38 PM UTC+2, Jan Panteltje wrote: >>>>>>>>> On a sunny day (Thu, 01 Jun 2017 07:13:56 -0700) it happened John Larkin >>>>>>>>> <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in >>>>>>>>> <v180jc9cjq7vv5s5bhg3lieqpsnkvdt7m6@4ax.com>: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I assume that Win needs to couple the gate drive power as well as the >>>>>>>>>> signal. Optical is fine for signal, but an expensive way to couple >>>>>>>>>> much power. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> True, like I said, big Edison style bulb, small solar cells. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Anything that's 10KV can pick up dust and make corona, PCB or >>>>>>>>>> whatever. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I think one could transfer ballpark one watt through a PCB in roughly >>>>>>>>>> a square inch without a core. That's a guess. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Oh much more, >>>>>>>>> 100 W should be no problem, use a planar coil for the top one that works even better, >>>>>>>>> like this: >>>>>>>>> http://panteltje.com/pub/inductive_coupling_real_power_300Vpp_IMG_6092.JPG >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Your traces need to be thick enough and the coil area large enough, that is all. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I have seen a coreless spiral PCB transformer rated at 50W. But, it's kind off big (about 40mm diameter). Operation at 8MHz >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Cheers >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Klaus >>>>>>> >>>>>>> One example: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://waset.org/publications/5540/coreless-printed-circuit-board-pcb-stepdown-transformers-for-dc-dc-converter-applications >>>>>> >>>>>> The vias are tricky in a high-voltage application, getting the winding >>>>>> ends out. A wire jumper, or some long surface-mount equivalent, would >>>>>> help. Like, a really long zero-ohm jumper. >>>>>> >>>>> Ever heard of burried vias? >>>> >>>> Sure. How would you use them to make coils on both sides of a board? >>>> Seems to me that you'd give up insulation clearances. >>>> >>> >>> It can help to bury the coils or at least the HV-side coil one layer >>> down into the board to avoid St.Elmo's fire. >> >> The max dielectric spacing would be with the coils on the outer >> layers. All the HV-side circuitry is subject to corona, with the flat >> secondary coil the least likely component to glow in the dark. >> > >Depends on where it goes. If the FET that it drives is all potted up >that would just leave the coil. Unless you also pot that which is always >an option. As noted, I hate potting. Sticky, tedious mess. > >Then there is the risk of touching. On one of my HV designs I had to be >the first one bitten. The Chinese engineer who was with me laughed and >said "See, you should have included a warning in German, not just >English and Spanish". I did this design, 1400 volts max, https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53724080/PCBs/T840_E1.jpg without getting zapped even once. That itself was shocking. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc picosecond timing precision measurement jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com http://www.highlandtechnology.com
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-06-02 11:05 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <n5a3jcds3lg4q9260ugcqbhjask584vsg0@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #462719 |
On Fri, 02 Jun 2017 11:02:43 -0700, John Larkin
<jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> wrote:
>On Fri, 02 Jun 2017 10:08:03 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
>wrote:
[snip].
>
>>
>>Then there is the risk of touching. On one of my HV designs I had to be
>>the first one bitten. The Chinese engineer who was with me laughed and
>>said "See, you should have included a warning in German, not just
>>English and Spanish".
>
>I did this design, 1400 volts max,
>
>https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53724080/PCBs/T840_E1.jpg
>
>without getting zapped even once. That itself was shocking.
Groan ;-)
...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson | mens |
| Analog Innovations | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| STV, Queen Creek, AZ 85142 Skype: skypeanalog | |
| Voice:(480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
Thinking outside the box... producing elegant solutions.
"It is not in doing what you like, but in liking what you do that
is the secret of happiness." -James Barrie
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-06-02 18:16 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <ogsa1d$15m0$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #462719 |
On a sunny day (Fri, 02 Jun 2017 11:02:43 -0700) it happened John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> wrote in <mi93jc5fvk1gfdltqov7r5p5043p2eckgk@4ax.com>: >On Fri, 02 Jun 2017 10:08:03 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> >wrote: > >>On 2017-06-02 09:32, John Larkin wrote: >>> On Fri, 02 Jun 2017 09:21:53 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> On 2017-06-02 07:59, John Larkin wrote: >>>>> On Fri, 2 Jun 2017 01:25:31 -0700 (PDT), klaus.kragelund@gmail.com >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On Thursday, 1 June 2017 17:48:03 UTC+2, John Larkin wrote: >>>>>>> On Thu, 1 Jun 2017 07:43:14 -0700 (PDT), Klaus Kragelund >>>>>>> <klauskvik@hotmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Thursday, June 1, 2017 at 4:42:53 PM UTC+2, Klaus Kragelund wrote: >>>>>>>>> On Thursday, June 1, 2017 at 4:28:38 PM UTC+2, Jan Panteltje wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On a sunny day (Thu, 01 Jun 2017 07:13:56 -0700) it happened John Larkin >>>>>>>>>> <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in >>>>>>>>>> <v180jc9cjq7vv5s5bhg3lieqpsnkvdt7m6@4ax.com>: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I assume that Win needs to couple the gate drive power as well as the >>>>>>>>>>> signal. Optical is fine for signal, but an expensive way to couple >>>>>>>>>>> much power. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> True, like I said, big Edison style bulb, small solar cells. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Anything that's 10KV can pick up dust and make corona, PCB or >>>>>>>>>>> whatever. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I think one could transfer ballpark one watt through a PCB in roughly >>>>>>>>>>> a square inch without a core. That's a guess. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Oh much more, >>>>>>>>>> 100 W should be no problem, use a planar coil for the top one that works even better, >>>>>>>>>> like this: >>>>>>>>>> http://panteltje.com/pub/inductive_coupling_real_power_300Vpp_IMG_6092.JPG >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Your traces need to be thick enough and the coil area large enough, that is all. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I have seen a coreless spiral PCB transformer rated at 50W. But, it's kind off big (about 40mm diameter). Operation at >>>>>>>>> 8MHz >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Cheers >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Klaus >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> One example: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://waset.org/publications/5540/coreless-printed-circuit-board-pcb-stepdown-transformers-for-dc-dc-converter-applications >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The vias are tricky in a high-voltage application, getting the winding >>>>>>> ends out. A wire jumper, or some long surface-mount equivalent, would >>>>>>> help. Like, a really long zero-ohm jumper. >>>>>>> >>>>>> Ever heard of burried vias? >>>>> >>>>> Sure. How would you use them to make coils on both sides of a board? >>>>> Seems to me that you'd give up insulation clearances. >>>>> >>>> >>>> It can help to bury the coils or at least the HV-side coil one layer >>>> down into the board to avoid St.Elmo's fire. >>> >>> The max dielectric spacing would be with the coils on the outer >>> layers. All the HV-side circuitry is subject to corona, with the flat >>> secondary coil the least likely component to glow in the dark. >>> >> >>Depends on where it goes. If the FET that it drives is all potted up >>that would just leave the coil. Unless you also pot that which is always >>an option. > >As noted, I hate potting. Sticky, tedious mess. > >> >>Then there is the risk of touching. On one of my HV designs I had to be >>the first one bitten. The Chinese engineer who was with me laughed and >>said "See, you should have included a warning in German, not just >>English and Spanish". > >I did this design, 1400 volts max, > >https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53724080/PCBs/T840_E1.jpg > >without getting zapped even once. That itself was shocking. This one can zap too: http://panteltje.com/pub/HeNe_laser_hv_supply_img_2070.jpg http://panteltje.com/pub/PMT_HV_generator_size_img_3174.jpg http://panteltje.com/pub/PMT_HV_generator_solder_side_img_3172.jpg Still working after those years...
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-06-02 11:32 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <epdpa3F9s5oU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #462719 |
On 2017-06-02 11:02, John Larkin wrote: > On Fri, 02 Jun 2017 10:08:03 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> > wrote: > >> On 2017-06-02 09:32, John Larkin wrote: >>> On Fri, 02 Jun 2017 09:21:53 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> On 2017-06-02 07:59, John Larkin wrote: >>>>> On Fri, 2 Jun 2017 01:25:31 -0700 (PDT), klaus.kragelund@gmail.com >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On Thursday, 1 June 2017 17:48:03 UTC+2, John Larkin wrote: >>>>>>> On Thu, 1 Jun 2017 07:43:14 -0700 (PDT), Klaus Kragelund >>>>>>> <klauskvik@hotmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Thursday, June 1, 2017 at 4:42:53 PM UTC+2, Klaus Kragelund wrote: >>>>>>>>> On Thursday, June 1, 2017 at 4:28:38 PM UTC+2, Jan Panteltje wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On a sunny day (Thu, 01 Jun 2017 07:13:56 -0700) it happened John Larkin >>>>>>>>>> <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in >>>>>>>>>> <v180jc9cjq7vv5s5bhg3lieqpsnkvdt7m6@4ax.com>: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I assume that Win needs to couple the gate drive power as well as the >>>>>>>>>>> signal. Optical is fine for signal, but an expensive way to couple >>>>>>>>>>> much power. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> True, like I said, big Edison style bulb, small solar cells. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Anything that's 10KV can pick up dust and make corona, PCB or >>>>>>>>>>> whatever. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I think one could transfer ballpark one watt through a PCB in roughly >>>>>>>>>>> a square inch without a core. That's a guess. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Oh much more, >>>>>>>>>> 100 W should be no problem, use a planar coil for the top one that works even better, >>>>>>>>>> like this: >>>>>>>>>> http://panteltje.com/pub/inductive_coupling_real_power_300Vpp_IMG_6092.JPG >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Your traces need to be thick enough and the coil area large enough, that is all. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I have seen a coreless spiral PCB transformer rated at 50W. But, it's kind off big (about 40mm diameter). Operation at 8MHz >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Cheers >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Klaus >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> One example: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://waset.org/publications/5540/coreless-printed-circuit-board-pcb-stepdown-transformers-for-dc-dc-converter-applications >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The vias are tricky in a high-voltage application, getting the winding >>>>>>> ends out. A wire jumper, or some long surface-mount equivalent, would >>>>>>> help. Like, a really long zero-ohm jumper. >>>>>>> >>>>>> Ever heard of burried vias? >>>>> >>>>> Sure. How would you use them to make coils on both sides of a board? >>>>> Seems to me that you'd give up insulation clearances. >>>>> >>>> >>>> It can help to bury the coils or at least the HV-side coil one layer >>>> down into the board to avoid St.Elmo's fire. >>> >>> The max dielectric spacing would be with the coils on the outer >>> layers. All the HV-side circuitry is subject to corona, with the flat >>> secondary coil the least likely component to glow in the dark. >>> >> >> Depends on where it goes. If the FET that it drives is all potted up >> that would just leave the coil. Unless you also pot that which is always >> an option. > > As noted, I hate potting. Sticky, tedious mess. > A friend had modified an old vacuum cleaner for the degassing. After brewing some Belgian beers I am almost convinced that some of the more potent Belgian yeasts could also do that job. They eat anything that gets in their way. >> >> Then there is the risk of touching. On one of my HV designs I had to be >> the first one bitten. The Chinese engineer who was with me laughed and >> said "See, you should have included a warning in German, not just >> English and Spanish". > > I did this design, 1400 volts max, > > https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53724080/PCBs/T840_E1.jpg > > without getting zapped even once. That itself was shocking. > Yeah but you grew up in New Orleans where most people spoke English back then and it has a waring in English :-) Most, except folks like my English teacher from New Orleanse who grew up speaking French. So whe was also a French teacher at our school. -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-06-02 12:15 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <96e3jc5ddpm3ft2n3ifqsq31i37g0idush@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #462727 |
On Fri, 02 Jun 2017 11:32:47 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> wrote: >On 2017-06-02 11:02, John Larkin wrote: >> On Fri, 02 Jun 2017 10:08:03 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> >> wrote: >> >>> On 2017-06-02 09:32, John Larkin wrote: >>>> On Fri, 02 Jun 2017 09:21:53 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 2017-06-02 07:59, John Larkin wrote: >>>>>> On Fri, 2 Jun 2017 01:25:31 -0700 (PDT), klaus.kragelund@gmail.com >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thursday, 1 June 2017 17:48:03 UTC+2, John Larkin wrote: >>>>>>>> On Thu, 1 Jun 2017 07:43:14 -0700 (PDT), Klaus Kragelund >>>>>>>> <klauskvik@hotmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Thursday, June 1, 2017 at 4:42:53 PM UTC+2, Klaus Kragelund wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, June 1, 2017 at 4:28:38 PM UTC+2, Jan Panteltje wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> On a sunny day (Thu, 01 Jun 2017 07:13:56 -0700) it happened John Larkin >>>>>>>>>>> <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in >>>>>>>>>>> <v180jc9cjq7vv5s5bhg3lieqpsnkvdt7m6@4ax.com>: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I assume that Win needs to couple the gate drive power as well as the >>>>>>>>>>>> signal. Optical is fine for signal, but an expensive way to couple >>>>>>>>>>>> much power. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> True, like I said, big Edison style bulb, small solar cells. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Anything that's 10KV can pick up dust and make corona, PCB or >>>>>>>>>>>> whatever. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> I think one could transfer ballpark one watt through a PCB in roughly >>>>>>>>>>>> a square inch without a core. That's a guess. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Oh much more, >>>>>>>>>>> 100 W should be no problem, use a planar coil for the top one that works even better, >>>>>>>>>>> like this: >>>>>>>>>>> http://panteltje.com/pub/inductive_coupling_real_power_300Vpp_IMG_6092.JPG >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Your traces need to be thick enough and the coil area large enough, that is all. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I have seen a coreless spiral PCB transformer rated at 50W. But, it's kind off big (about 40mm diameter). Operation at 8MHz >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Cheers >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Klaus >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> One example: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://waset.org/publications/5540/coreless-printed-circuit-board-pcb-stepdown-transformers-for-dc-dc-converter-applications >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The vias are tricky in a high-voltage application, getting the winding >>>>>>>> ends out. A wire jumper, or some long surface-mount equivalent, would >>>>>>>> help. Like, a really long zero-ohm jumper. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ever heard of burried vias? >>>>>> >>>>>> Sure. How would you use them to make coils on both sides of a board? >>>>>> Seems to me that you'd give up insulation clearances. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> It can help to bury the coils or at least the HV-side coil one layer >>>>> down into the board to avoid St.Elmo's fire. >>>> >>>> The max dielectric spacing would be with the coils on the outer >>>> layers. All the HV-side circuitry is subject to corona, with the flat >>>> secondary coil the least likely component to glow in the dark. >>>> >>> >>> Depends on where it goes. If the FET that it drives is all potted up >>> that would just leave the coil. Unless you also pot that which is always >>> an option. >> >> As noted, I hate potting. Sticky, tedious mess. >> > >A friend had modified an old vacuum cleaner for the degassing. > >After brewing some Belgian beers I am almost convinced that some of the >more potent Belgian yeasts could also do that job. They eat anything >that gets in their way. > > >>> >>> Then there is the risk of touching. On one of my HV designs I had to be >>> the first one bitten. The Chinese engineer who was with me laughed and >>> said "See, you should have included a warning in German, not just >>> English and Spanish". >> >> I did this design, 1400 volts max, >> >> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53724080/PCBs/T840_E1.jpg >> >> without getting zapped even once. That itself was shocking. >> > >Yeah but you grew up in New Orleans where most people spoke English back >then and it has a waring in English :-) > >Most, except folks like my English teacher from New Orleanse who grew up >speaking French. So whe was also a French teacher at our school. The Louisiana cajuns mostly spoke cajun French until WWII, when they were drafted into the army and taught English. They still have a distinct accent and use a lot of their own words. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc picosecond timing precision measurement jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com http://www.highlandtechnology.com
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-06-02 12:43 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <epdtf8Fb0miU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #462734 |
On 2017-06-02 12:15, John Larkin wrote: > On Fri, 02 Jun 2017 11:32:47 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> > wrote: > >> On 2017-06-02 11:02, John Larkin wrote: >>> On Fri, 02 Jun 2017 10:08:03 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> >>> wrote: >>> [...] >>>> Then there is the risk of touching. On one of my HV designs I had to be >>>> the first one bitten. The Chinese engineer who was with me laughed and >>>> said "See, you should have included a warning in German, not just >>>> English and Spanish". >>> >>> I did this design, 1400 volts max, >>> >>> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53724080/PCBs/T840_E1.jpg >>> >>> without getting zapped even once. That itself was shocking. >>> >> >> Yeah but you grew up in New Orleans where most people spoke English back >> then and it has a waring in English :-) >> >> Most, except folks like my English teacher from New Orleanse who grew up >> speaking French. So whe was also a French teacher at our school. > > The Louisiana cajuns mostly spoke cajun French until WWII, when they > were drafted into the army and taught English. They still have a > distinct accent and use a lot of their own words. > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ilcY7Uc9vE At least one can still understand some of it, they don't speak super fast like many Mexicans do. Where I could not understand one word was on an oil rig on the North Sea. One of the guys I worked with was a Scot who had to or rather was forced to learn English at age 6 when school started for him. Before that he only spoke Gaelic as did all of his friends and neighbors. When he found another guy on the rig who grew up Gaelic I couldn't understand anything. Sounded like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lktt_DlpsJA -- Regards, Joerg http://www.analogconsultants.com/
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | klaus.kragelund@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-06-02 10:04 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <b41ee28e-8da9-4874-9112-11cc02f2ed5f@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #462677 |
On Friday, 2 June 2017 16:59:42 UTC+2, John Larkin wrote: > On Fri, 2 Jun 2017 01:25:31 -0700 (PDT), klaus.kragelund@gmail.com > wrote: > > >On Thursday, 1 June 2017 17:48:03 UTC+2, John Larkin wrote: > >> On Thu, 1 Jun 2017 07:43:14 -0700 (PDT), Klaus Kragelund > >> <klauskvik@hotmail.com> wrote: > >> > >> >On Thursday, June 1, 2017 at 4:42:53 PM UTC+2, Klaus Kragelund wrote: > >> >> On Thursday, June 1, 2017 at 4:28:38 PM UTC+2, Jan Panteltje wrote: > >> >> > On a sunny day (Thu, 01 Jun 2017 07:13:56 -0700) it happened John Larkin > >> >> > <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in > >> >> > <v180jc9cjq7vv5s5bhg3lieqpsnkvdt7m6@4ax.com>: > >> >> > > >> >> > >I assume that Win needs to couple the gate drive power as well as the > >> >> > >signal. Optical is fine for signal, but an expensive way to couple > >> >> > >much power. > >> >> > > >> >> > True, like I said, big Edison style bulb, small solar cells. > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > >Anything that's 10KV can pick up dust and make corona, PCB or > >> >> > >whatever. > >> >> > > > >> >> > >I think one could transfer ballpark one watt through a PCB in roughly > >> >> > >a square inch without a core. That's a guess. > >> >> > > >> >> > Oh much more, > >> >> > 100 W should be no problem, use a planar coil for the top one that works even better, > >> >> > like this: > >> >> > http://panteltje.com/pub/inductive_coupling_real_power_300Vpp_IMG_6092.JPG > >> >> > > >> >> > Your traces need to be thick enough and the coil area large enough, that is all. > >> >> > >> >> I have seen a coreless spiral PCB transformer rated at 50W. But, it's kind off big (about 40mm diameter). Operation at 8MHz > >> >> > >> >> Cheers > >> >> > >> >> Klaus > >> > > >> >One example: > >> > > >> >http://waset.org/publications/5540/coreless-printed-circuit-board-pcb-stepdown-transformers-for-dc-dc-converter-applications > >> > >> The vias are tricky in a high-voltage application, getting the winding > >> ends out. A wire jumper, or some long surface-mount equivalent, would > >> help. Like, a really long zero-ohm jumper. > >> > >Ever heard of burried vias? > > Sure. How would you use them to make coils on both sides of a board? > Seems to me that you'd give up insulation clearances. > Blind via from layer 1 to 2, that allows access to coil no 1 Blind via from layer 3 to 4, that allows access to coil no 2 Insulation prepeg from layer 2 to 3. Placement of the vias needs to be considered. Creepage requirements in internal layers are a lot lower than outside. If you cannot life with the design, go to 6 layers, or make one coil as a add-on PCB Cheers Klaus
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-06-02 10:54 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <m393jcpq6a22mgeocet7gg134n7l31rkse@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #462702 |
On Fri, 2 Jun 2017 10:04:42 -0700 (PDT), klaus.kragelund@gmail.com wrote: >On Friday, 2 June 2017 16:59:42 UTC+2, John Larkin wrote: >> On Fri, 2 Jun 2017 01:25:31 -0700 (PDT), klaus.kragelund@gmail.com >> wrote: >> >> >On Thursday, 1 June 2017 17:48:03 UTC+2, John Larkin wrote: >> >> On Thu, 1 Jun 2017 07:43:14 -0700 (PDT), Klaus Kragelund >> >> <klauskvik@hotmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> >On Thursday, June 1, 2017 at 4:42:53 PM UTC+2, Klaus Kragelund wrote: >> >> >> On Thursday, June 1, 2017 at 4:28:38 PM UTC+2, Jan Panteltje wrote: >> >> >> > On a sunny day (Thu, 01 Jun 2017 07:13:56 -0700) it happened John Larkin >> >> >> > <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in >> >> >> > <v180jc9cjq7vv5s5bhg3lieqpsnkvdt7m6@4ax.com>: >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >I assume that Win needs to couple the gate drive power as well as the >> >> >> > >signal. Optical is fine for signal, but an expensive way to couple >> >> >> > >much power. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > True, like I said, big Edison style bulb, small solar cells. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >Anything that's 10KV can pick up dust and make corona, PCB or >> >> >> > >whatever. >> >> >> > > >> >> >> > >I think one could transfer ballpark one watt through a PCB in roughly >> >> >> > >a square inch without a core. That's a guess. >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Oh much more, >> >> >> > 100 W should be no problem, use a planar coil for the top one that works even better, >> >> >> > like this: >> >> >> > http://panteltje.com/pub/inductive_coupling_real_power_300Vpp_IMG_6092.JPG >> >> >> > >> >> >> > Your traces need to be thick enough and the coil area large enough, that is all. >> >> >> >> >> >> I have seen a coreless spiral PCB transformer rated at 50W. But, it's kind off big (about 40mm diameter). Operation at 8MHz >> >> >> >> >> >> Cheers >> >> >> >> >> >> Klaus >> >> > >> >> >One example: >> >> > >> >> >http://waset.org/publications/5540/coreless-printed-circuit-board-pcb-stepdown-transformers-for-dc-dc-converter-applications >> >> >> >> The vias are tricky in a high-voltage application, getting the winding >> >> ends out. A wire jumper, or some long surface-mount equivalent, would >> >> help. Like, a really long zero-ohm jumper. >> >> >> >Ever heard of burried vias? >> >> Sure. How would you use them to make coils on both sides of a board? >> Seems to me that you'd give up insulation clearances. >> > >Blind via from layer 1 to 2, that allows access to coil no 1 >Blind via from layer 3 to 4, that allows access to coil no 2 > >Insulation prepeg from layer 2 to 3. Placement of the vias needs to be considered. Creepage requirements in internal layers are a lot lower than outside. If you cannot life with the design, go to 6 layers, or make one coil as a add-on PCB > >Cheers > >Klaus Seems like a surface-mount jumper, or several, would be an easy way to get the inner end of a planar coil out without complicating the board or compromising insulation. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc picosecond timing precision measurement jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com http://www.highlandtechnology.com
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-06-02 17:35 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <ogsovf$gh7$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #462715 |
"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> wrote in message news:m393jcpq6a22mgeocet7gg134n7l31rkse@4ax.com... > Seems like a surface-mount jumper, or several, would be an easy way to > get the inner end of a planar coil out without complicating the board > or compromising insulation. You can also just make the winding do an ugly hairpin around the via, so that it can clear the other layer's winding. Doesn't screw up leakage too badly. Tim -- Seven Transistor Labs, LLC Electrical Engineering Consultation and Contract Design Website: http://seventransistorlabs.com
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-06-02 15:56 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <a3r3jcl2ptbabd3gfg7jqlsb7q87colajf@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #462756 |
On Fri, 2 Jun 2017 17:35:18 -0500, "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> wrote: >"John Larkin" <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> wrote in message >news:m393jcpq6a22mgeocet7gg134n7l31rkse@4ax.com... >> Seems like a surface-mount jumper, or several, would be an easy way to >> get the inner end of a planar coil out without complicating the board >> or compromising insulation. > >You can also just make the winding do an ugly hairpin around the via, so >that it can clear the other layer's winding. Doesn't screw up leakage too >badly. > >Tim That works. It's hard to draw and adds a little leakage inductance. But you don't want the via to be close to the winding on the other side, which gets ugly at kilovolts of clearance. -- John Larkin Highland Technology, Inc picosecond timing precision measurement jlarkin att highlandtechnology dott com http://www.highlandtechnology.com
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | upsidedown@downunder.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-06-01 17:44 +0300 |
| Message-ID | <vs90jcpdn8hrtevguo0ehuht80a7a8u76q@4ax.com> |
| In reply to | #462557 |
On Thu, 01 Jun 2017 14:28:33 GMT, Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote: >On a sunny day (Thu, 01 Jun 2017 07:13:56 -0700) it happened John Larkin ><jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in ><v180jc9cjq7vv5s5bhg3lieqpsnkvdt7m6@4ax.com>: > >>I assume that Win needs to couple the gate drive power as well as the >>signal. Optical is fine for signal, but an expensive way to couple >>much power. > >True, like I said, big Edison style bulb, small solar cells. These days two fibres, a 1 W laser feeding power up to a device sitting on a 400 kV power pole conductor and an other fiber carrying the data down.
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-06-01 14:57 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <ogpa0d$rgt$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #462564 |
On a sunny day (Thu, 01 Jun 2017 17:44:57 +0300) it happened upsidedown@downunder.com wrote in <vs90jcpdn8hrtevguo0ehuht80a7a8u76q@4ax.com>: >On Thu, 01 Jun 2017 14:28:33 GMT, Jan Panteltje ><pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote: > >>On a sunny day (Thu, 01 Jun 2017 07:13:56 -0700) it happened John Larkin >><jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in >><v180jc9cjq7vv5s5bhg3lieqpsnkvdt7m6@4ax.com>: >> >>>I assume that Win needs to couple the gate drive power as well as the >>>signal. Optical is fine for signal, but an expensive way to couple >>>much power. >> >>True, like I said, big Edison style bulb, small solar cells. > >These days two fibres, a 1 W laser feeding power up to a device >sitting on a 400 kV power pole conductor and an other fiber carrying >the data down. Cool, way to go!
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
| From | Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-06-01 08:05 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <ogpafa06oc@drn.newsguy.com> |
| In reply to | #462564 |
upsidedown@downunder.com wrote...
>
> These days two fibres, a 1 W laser feeding power up to
> a device sitting on a 400 kV power pole conductor and
> an other fiber carrying the data down.
What kind of PD is generating DC power from laser's
one watt? Need p/n please!
--
Thanks,
- Win
[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]
Page 2 of 4 — ← Prev page 1 [2] 3 4 Next page →
Back to top | Article view | sci.electronics.design
csiph-web