Groups > sci.electronics.design > #462704

Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers

From	Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
Newsgroups	sci.electronics.design
Subject	Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers
Date	2017-06-02 10:08 -0700
Message-ID	<epdkb9F8su9U1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References	(6 earlier) <vld0jclm0t6m1ikmgqu3r6rff2s6m626di@4ax.com> <5727e1f9-f451-465f-922f-17d43c30427a@googlegroups.com> <p7v2jc1u85ehj03h1o9heqi249171vhmtl@4ax.com> <epdhklF87v0U2@mid.individual.net> <mi43jchu0dab470tb8ksmn1ng084bm627u@4ax.com>

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On 2017-06-02 09:32, John Larkin wrote:
> On Fri, 02 Jun 2017 09:21:53 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2017-06-02 07:59, John Larkin wrote:
>>> On Fri, 2 Jun 2017 01:25:31 -0700 (PDT), klaus.kragelund@gmail.com
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thursday, 1 June 2017 17:48:03 UTC+2, John Larkin  wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 1 Jun 2017 07:43:14 -0700 (PDT), Klaus Kragelund
>>>>> <klauskvik@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thursday, June 1, 2017 at 4:42:53 PM UTC+2, Klaus Kragelund wrote:
>>>>>>> On Thursday, June 1, 2017 at 4:28:38 PM UTC+2, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>>>>>> On a sunny day (Thu, 01 Jun 2017 07:13:56 -0700) it happened John Larkin
>>>>>>>> <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in
>>>>>>>> <v180jc9cjq7vv5s5bhg3lieqpsnkvdt7m6@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I assume that Win needs to couple the gate drive power as well as the
>>>>>>>>> signal. Optical is fine for signal, but an expensive way to couple
>>>>>>>>> much power.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> True, like I said, big Edison style bulb, small solar cells.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Anything that's 10KV can pick up dust and make corona, PCB or
>>>>>>>>> whatever.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I think one could transfer ballpark one watt through a PCB in roughly
>>>>>>>>> a square inch without a core. That's a guess.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Oh much more,
>>>>>>>> 100 W should be no problem, use a planar coil for the top one that works even better,
>>>>>>>> like this:
>>>>>>>>    http://panteltje.com/pub/inductive_coupling_real_power_300Vpp_IMG_6092.JPG
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Your traces need to be thick enough and the coil area large enough, that is all.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I have seen a coreless spiral PCB transformer rated at 50W. But, it's kind off big (about 40mm diameter). Operation at 8MHz
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Klaus
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One example:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://waset.org/publications/5540/coreless-printed-circuit-board-pcb-stepdown-transformers-for-dc-dc-converter-applications
>>>>>
>>>>> The vias are tricky in a high-voltage application, getting the winding
>>>>> ends out. A wire jumper, or some long surface-mount equivalent, would
>>>>> help. Like, a really long zero-ohm jumper.
>>>>>
>>>> Ever heard of burried vias?
>>>
>>> Sure. How would you use them to make coils on both sides of a board?
>>> Seems to me that you'd give up insulation clearances.
>>>
>>
>> It can help to bury the coils or at least the HV-side coil one layer
>> down into the board to avoid St.Elmo's fire.
>
> The max dielectric spacing would be with the coils on the outer
> layers. All the HV-side circuitry is subject to corona, with the flat
> secondary coil the least likely component to glow in the dark.
>

Depends on where it goes. If the FET that it drives is all potted up 
that would just leave the coil. Unless you also pot that which is always 
an option.

Then there is the risk of touching. On one of my HV designs I had to be 
the first one bitten. The Chinese engineer who was with me laughed and 
said "See, you should have included a warning in German, not just 
English and Spanish".

-- 
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Thread

5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> - 2017-05-17 14:33 -0700
  Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-05-17 15:09 -0700
    Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> - 2017-05-31 07:39 -0700
  Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> - 2017-05-18 01:21 -0500
    Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> - 2017-05-31 07:30 -0700
  Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers oldschool@tubes.com - 2017-05-18 08:34 -0400
    Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> - 2017-05-18 10:07 -0700
      Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Klaus Kragelund <klauskvik@hotmail.com> - 2017-05-18 10:53 -0700
        Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers speff <spehro@gmail.com> - 2017-05-18 12:59 -0700
        Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers habib <h.bouazizviallet@free.fr> - 2017-05-31 22:03 +0200
          Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-05-31 13:22 -0700
            Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers habib <h.bouazizviallet@free.fr> - 2017-05-31 23:04 +0200
              Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-05-31 15:57 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-06-01 07:47 +0000
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-06-01 07:13 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-06-01 14:28 +0000
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Klaus Kragelund <klauskvik@hotmail.com> - 2017-06-01 07:42 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Klaus Kragelund <klauskvik@hotmail.com> - 2017-06-01 07:43 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-06-01 08:47 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers klaus.kragelund@gmail.com - 2017-06-02 01:25 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-06-02 07:59 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-06-02 09:21 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-06-02 09:32 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-06-02 10:08 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-06-02 10:21 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-06-02 10:46 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-06-02 17:54 +0000
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-06-02 11:02 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-06-02 11:05 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-06-02 18:16 +0000
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-06-02 11:32 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-06-02 12:15 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-06-02 12:43 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers klaus.kragelund@gmail.com - 2017-06-02 10:04 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-06-02 10:54 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> - 2017-06-02 17:35 -0500
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-06-02 15:56 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-06-01 17:44 +0300
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-06-01 14:57 +0000
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> - 2017-06-01 08:05 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-06-01 08:45 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-06-01 16:07 +0000
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-06-02 11:08 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-06-02 11:37 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Klaus Kragelund <klauskvik@hotmail.com> - 2017-06-01 07:33 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-06-01 14:56 +0000
        Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-06-01 12:08 +0300
          Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers habib.bouaziz@gmail.com - 2017-06-01 04:12 -0700
          Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-06-01 07:15 -0700
      Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-18 20:08 +0000
      Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-05-19 00:03 +0300
      Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-05-18 14:12 -0700
  Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-05-31 10:48 -0700
  Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers habib <h.bouazizviallet@free.fr> - 2017-05-31 21:50 +0200
    Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-05-31 12:57 -0700
      Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers habib <h.bouazizviallet@free.fr> - 2017-05-31 22:10 +0200
        Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-06-01 13:09 -0700
          Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers habib <h.bouazizviallet@free.fr> - 2017-06-01 23:17 +0200
            Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-06-01 14:35 -0700
              Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers habib.bouaziz@gmail.com - 2017-06-02 07:01 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> - 2017-06-02 08:44 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-06-02 09:19 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> - 2017-06-02 11:18 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-06-02 09:28 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-06-02 09:35 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-06-02 11:16 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> - 2017-06-02 14:02 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-06-02 14:36 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-06-02 16:08 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-06-02 16:46 +0000
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers habib <h.bouazizviallet@free.fr> - 2017-06-02 23:13 +0200
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-06-02 14:39 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers habib <h.bouazizviallet@free.fr> - 2017-06-03 09:47 +0200
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers klaus.kragelund@gmail.com - 2017-06-03 04:28 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2017-06-07 20:03 +0000
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> - 2017-06-08 10:12 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-07-13 07:35 -0700
  Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Terry <respect__privacy@hotmail.com> - 2017-06-02 06:06 -0700
    Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-06-02 09:27 -0700
  Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com - 2017-07-13 07:43 -0700

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