Groups > sci.electronics.design > #462727

Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers

From	Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
Newsgroups	sci.electronics.design
Subject	Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers
Date	2017-06-02 11:32 -0700
Message-ID	<epdpa3F9s5oU1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References	(7 earlier) <p7v2jc1u85ehj03h1o9heqi249171vhmtl@4ax.com> <epdhklF87v0U2@mid.individual.net> <mi43jchu0dab470tb8ksmn1ng084bm627u@4ax.com> <epdkb9F8su9U1@mid.individual.net> <mi93jc5fvk1gfdltqov7r5p5043p2eckgk@4ax.com>

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On 2017-06-02 11:02, John Larkin wrote:
> On Fri, 02 Jun 2017 10:08:03 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On 2017-06-02 09:32, John Larkin wrote:
>>> On Fri, 02 Jun 2017 09:21:53 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2017-06-02 07:59, John Larkin wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 2 Jun 2017 01:25:31 -0700 (PDT), klaus.kragelund@gmail.com
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thursday, 1 June 2017 17:48:03 UTC+2, John Larkin  wrote:
>>>>>>> On Thu, 1 Jun 2017 07:43:14 -0700 (PDT), Klaus Kragelund
>>>>>>> <klauskvik@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thursday, June 1, 2017 at 4:42:53 PM UTC+2, Klaus Kragelund wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, June 1, 2017 at 4:28:38 PM UTC+2, Jan Panteltje wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On a sunny day (Thu, 01 Jun 2017 07:13:56 -0700) it happened John Larkin
>>>>>>>>>> <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote in
>>>>>>>>>> <v180jc9cjq7vv5s5bhg3lieqpsnkvdt7m6@4ax.com>:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I assume that Win needs to couple the gate drive power as well as the
>>>>>>>>>>> signal. Optical is fine for signal, but an expensive way to couple
>>>>>>>>>>> much power.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> True, like I said, big Edison style bulb, small solar cells.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Anything that's 10KV can pick up dust and make corona, PCB or
>>>>>>>>>>> whatever.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I think one could transfer ballpark one watt through a PCB in roughly
>>>>>>>>>>> a square inch without a core. That's a guess.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Oh much more,
>>>>>>>>>> 100 W should be no problem, use a planar coil for the top one that works even better,
>>>>>>>>>> like this:
>>>>>>>>>>     http://panteltje.com/pub/inductive_coupling_real_power_300Vpp_IMG_6092.JPG
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Your traces need to be thick enough and the coil area large enough, that is all.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I have seen a coreless spiral PCB transformer rated at 50W. But, it's kind off big (about 40mm diameter). Operation at 8MHz
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Klaus
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> One example:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://waset.org/publications/5540/coreless-printed-circuit-board-pcb-stepdown-transformers-for-dc-dc-converter-applications
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The vias are tricky in a high-voltage application, getting the winding
>>>>>>> ends out. A wire jumper, or some long surface-mount equivalent, would
>>>>>>> help. Like, a really long zero-ohm jumper.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ever heard of burried vias?
>>>>>
>>>>> Sure. How would you use them to make coils on both sides of a board?
>>>>> Seems to me that you'd give up insulation clearances.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It can help to bury the coils or at least the HV-side coil one layer
>>>> down into the board to avoid St.Elmo's fire.
>>>
>>> The max dielectric spacing would be with the coils on the outer
>>> layers. All the HV-side circuitry is subject to corona, with the flat
>>> secondary coil the least likely component to glow in the dark.
>>>
>>
>> Depends on where it goes. If the FET that it drives is all potted up
>> that would just leave the coil. Unless you also pot that which is always
>> an option.
>
> As noted, I hate potting. Sticky, tedious mess.
>

A friend had modified an old vacuum cleaner for the degassing.

After brewing some Belgian beers I am almost convinced that some of the 
more potent Belgian yeasts could also do that job. They eat anything 
that gets in their way.


>>
>> Then there is the risk of touching. On one of my HV designs I had to be
>> the first one bitten. The Chinese engineer who was with me laughed and
>> said "See, you should have included a warning in German, not just
>> English and Spanish".
>
> I did this design, 1400 volts max,
>
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/53724080/PCBs/T840_E1.jpg
>
> without getting zapped even once. That itself was shocking.
>

Yeah but you grew up in New Orleans where most people spoke English back 
then and it has a waring in English :-)

Most, except folks like my English teacher from New Orleanse who grew up 
speaking French. So whe was also a French teacher at our school.

-- 
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Thread

5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> - 2017-05-17 14:33 -0700
  Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-05-17 15:09 -0700
    Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> - 2017-05-31 07:39 -0700
  Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> - 2017-05-18 01:21 -0500
    Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> - 2017-05-31 07:30 -0700
  Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers oldschool@tubes.com - 2017-05-18 08:34 -0400
    Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> - 2017-05-18 10:07 -0700
      Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Klaus Kragelund <klauskvik@hotmail.com> - 2017-05-18 10:53 -0700
        Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers speff <spehro@gmail.com> - 2017-05-18 12:59 -0700
        Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers habib <h.bouazizviallet@free.fr> - 2017-05-31 22:03 +0200
          Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-05-31 13:22 -0700
            Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers habib <h.bouazizviallet@free.fr> - 2017-05-31 23:04 +0200
              Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-05-31 15:57 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-06-01 07:47 +0000
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-06-01 07:13 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-06-01 14:28 +0000
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Klaus Kragelund <klauskvik@hotmail.com> - 2017-06-01 07:42 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Klaus Kragelund <klauskvik@hotmail.com> - 2017-06-01 07:43 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-06-01 08:47 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers klaus.kragelund@gmail.com - 2017-06-02 01:25 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-06-02 07:59 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-06-02 09:21 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-06-02 09:32 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-06-02 10:08 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-06-02 10:21 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-06-02 10:46 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-06-02 17:54 +0000
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-06-02 11:02 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-Icon@On-My-Web-Site.com> - 2017-06-02 11:05 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-06-02 18:16 +0000
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-06-02 11:32 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-06-02 12:15 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-06-02 12:43 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers klaus.kragelund@gmail.com - 2017-06-02 10:04 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-06-02 10:54 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers "Tim Williams" <tiwill@seventransistorlabs.com> - 2017-06-02 17:35 -0500
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-06-02 15:56 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-06-01 17:44 +0300
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-06-01 14:57 +0000
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> - 2017-06-01 08:05 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-06-01 08:45 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-06-01 16:07 +0000
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-06-02 11:08 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-06-02 11:37 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Klaus Kragelund <klauskvik@hotmail.com> - 2017-06-01 07:33 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-06-01 14:56 +0000
        Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-06-01 12:08 +0300
          Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers habib.bouaziz@gmail.com - 2017-06-01 04:12 -0700
          Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-06-01 07:15 -0700
      Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-05-18 20:08 +0000
      Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers upsidedown@downunder.com - 2017-05-19 00:03 +0300
      Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-05-18 14:12 -0700
  Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-05-31 10:48 -0700
  Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers habib <h.bouazizviallet@free.fr> - 2017-05-31 21:50 +0200
    Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> - 2017-05-31 12:57 -0700
      Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers habib <h.bouazizviallet@free.fr> - 2017-05-31 22:10 +0200
        Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-06-01 13:09 -0700
          Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers habib <h.bouazizviallet@free.fr> - 2017-06-01 23:17 +0200
            Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-06-01 14:35 -0700
              Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers habib.bouaziz@gmail.com - 2017-06-02 07:01 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> - 2017-06-02 08:44 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-06-02 09:19 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> - 2017-06-02 11:18 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> - 2017-06-02 09:28 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-06-02 09:35 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-06-02 11:16 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> - 2017-06-02 14:02 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-06-02 14:36 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-06-02 16:08 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Jan Panteltje <pNa0nStpealmtje@yahoo.com> - 2017-06-02 16:46 +0000
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers habib <h.bouazizviallet@free.fr> - 2017-06-02 23:13 +0200
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-06-02 14:39 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers habib <h.bouazizviallet@free.fr> - 2017-06-03 09:47 +0200
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers klaus.kragelund@gmail.com - 2017-06-03 04:28 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Jasen Betts <jasen@xnet.co.nz> - 2017-06-07 20:03 +0000
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Winfield Hill <hill@rowland.harvard.edu> - 2017-06-08 10:12 -0700
                Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers dagmargoodboat@yahoo.com - 2017-07-13 07:35 -0700
  Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Terry <respect__privacy@hotmail.com> - 2017-06-02 06:06 -0700
    Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-06-02 09:27 -0700
  Re: 5 to 10kV rated gate transformers bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com - 2017-07-13 07:43 -0700

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