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OT: slightly longer life

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  OT: slightly longer life mrdarrett@gmail.com - 2017-05-17 11:54 -0700
    Re: OT: slightly longer life Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-05-17 12:06 -0700
      Re: OT: slightly longer life mrdarrett@gmail.com - 2017-05-17 12:39 -0700
        Re: OT: slightly longer life Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> - 2017-05-17 13:23 -0700
          Re: OT: slightly longer life mrdarrett@gmail.com - 2017-05-17 13:50 -0700
        Re: OT: slightly longer life krw@notreal.com - 2017-05-17 19:47 -0400
        Re: OT: slightly longer life rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-17 19:52 -0400
          Re: OT: slightly longer life krw@notreal.com - 2017-05-17 20:16 -0400
    Re: OT: slightly longer life Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-05-17 12:13 -0700
      Re: OT: slightly longer life mrdarrett@gmail.com - 2017-05-17 12:41 -0700
        Re: OT: slightly longer life Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-05-17 13:49 -0700
          Re: OT: slightly longer life mrdarrett@gmail.com - 2017-05-17 13:54 -0700
            Re: OT: slightly longer life Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-05-17 14:29 -0700
              Re: OT: slightly longer life mrdarrett@gmail.com - 2017-05-17 15:10 -0700
                Re: OT: slightly longer life Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-05-17 15:42 -0700
                  Re: OT: slightly longer life mrdarrett@gmail.com - 2017-05-17 16:05 -0700
                    Re: OT: slightly longer life Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-05-17 16:21 -0700
                      Re: OT: slightly longer life mrdarrett@gmail.com - 2017-05-17 16:50 -0700
                        Re: OT: slightly longer life Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-05-18 07:14 -0700
                          Re: OT: slightly longer life mrdarrett@gmail.com - 2017-05-18 08:28 -0700
                            Re: OT: slightly longer life Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-05-18 10:33 -0700
                          Re: OT: slightly longer life mrdarrett@gmail.com - 2017-05-18 08:38 -0700
                            Re: OT: slightly longer life Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-05-18 10:36 -0700
                              Re: OT: slightly longer life mrdarrett@gmail.com - 2017-05-19 08:32 -0700
                                Re: OT: slightly longer life Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-05-19 11:17 -0700
          Re: OT: slightly longer life mrdarrett@gmail.com - 2017-05-17 14:03 -0700
            Re: OT: slightly longer life rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-18 10:27 -0400
          Re: OT: slightly longer life John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-05-17 14:57 -0700
            Re: OT: slightly longer life mrdarrett@gmail.com - 2017-05-17 15:11 -0700
              Re: OT: slightly longer life John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-05-17 15:24 -0700
                Re: OT: slightly longer life rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> - 2017-05-18 10:28 -0400
                  Re: OT: slightly longer life krw@notreal.com - 2017-05-18 12:45 -0400
            Re: slightly longer life "Kevin Aylward" <kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> - 2017-05-20 08:17 +0100
          Re: OT: slightly longer life krw@notreal.com - 2017-05-17 19:50 -0400
            Re: OT: slightly longer life mrdarrett@gmail.com - 2017-05-18 08:20 -0700
      Re: OT: slightly longer life Clifford Heath <no.spam@please.net> - 2017-05-18 06:52 +1000
        Re: OT: slightly longer life Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com> - 2017-05-18 07:32 -0700
      Re: OT: slightly longer life John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-05-17 14:55 -0700
    Re: OT: slightly longer life John Larkin <jjlarkin@highland_snip_technology.com> - 2017-05-17 14:54 -0700
      Re: OT: slightly longer life bill.sloman@ieee.org - 2017-05-18 19:06 -0700
      Re: slightly longer life "Kevin Aylward" <kevinRemovAT@kevinaylward.co.uk> - 2017-05-20 08:25 +0100

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#460685 — OT: slightly longer life

Just 5 min/day of running, huh.
https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/07/30/running-just-5-minutes-a-day-has-long-lasting-benefits/

And...
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/12/well/move/an-hour-of-running-may-add-seven-hours-to-your-life.html

Later,

Michael

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#460687

On 5/17/2017 11:54 AM, mrdarrett@gmail.com wrote:
> Just 5 min/day of running, huh.
> https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/07/30/running-just-5-minutes-a-day-has-long-lasting-benefits/

"As a group, runners gained about three extra years of life compared with those 
adults who never ran"

5 minutes/day * 365 days/year * 70 years/active lifespan
= 127750 min = 2129 hours = (a "work year")

(you spend 1/3 of those "extra years of life" ASLEEP and a good portion
of the remaining waking time RUNNING!  :>

> And...
> https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/12/well/move/an-hour-of-running-may-add-seven-hours-to-your-life.html

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#460690

On Wednesday, May 17, 2017 at 12:06:29 PM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
> On 5/17/2017 11:54 AM, mrdarrett@gmail.com wrote:
> > Just 5 min/day of running, huh.
> > https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/07/30/running-just-5-minutes-a-day-has-long-lasting-benefits/
> 
> "As a group, runners gained about three extra years of life compared with those 
> adults who never ran"
> 
> 5 minutes/day * 365 days/year * 70 years/active lifespan
> = 127750 min = 2129 hours = (a "work year")
> 
> (you spend 1/3 of those "extra years of life" ASLEEP and a good portion
> of the remaining waking time RUNNING!  :>
> 
> > And...
> > https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/12/well/move/an-hour-of-running-may-add-seven-hours-to-your-life.html


From the second article:
"Could it be, they asked rather peevishly, that if in order to reduce your risk of dying by a year, you had to spend the equivalent of a year’s worth of time on the trails or track, producing no discernible net gain?"

"Perhaps most interesting, the researchers calculated that, hour for hour, running statistically returns more time to people’s lives than it consumes. Figuring two hours per week of training, since that was the average reported by runners in the Cooper Institute study, the researchers estimated that a typical runner would spend less than six months actually running over the course of almost 40 years, but could expect an increase in life expectancy of 3.2 years, for a net gain of about 2.8 years."

Reminds me of a joke about marriage, since married people statistically live longer: "If you want to die a slow death..."

Michael

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#460695

On 5/17/2017 12:39 PM, mrdarrett@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 17, 2017 at 12:06:29 PM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
>> On 5/17/2017 11:54 AM, mrdarrett@gmail.com wrote:
>>> Just 5 min/day of running, huh.
>>> https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/07/30/running-just-5-minutes-a-day-has-long-lasting-benefits/
>>
>>
>>>
"As a group, runners gained about three extra years of life compared with those
>> adults who never ran"
>>
>> 5 minutes/day * 365 days/year * 70 years/active lifespan = 127750 min =
>> 2129 hours = (a "work year")
>>
>> (you spend 1/3 of those "extra years of life" ASLEEP and a good portion of
>> the remaining waking time RUNNING!  :>
>>
>>> And...
>>> https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/12/well/move/an-hour-of-running-may-add-seven-hours-to-your-life.html
>
> From the second article: "Could it be, they asked rather peevishly, that if
> in order to reduce your risk of dying by a year, you had to spend the
> equivalent of a year’s worth of time on the trails or track, producing no
> discernible net gain?"
>
> "Perhaps most interesting, the researchers calculated that, hour for hour,
> running statistically returns more time to people’s lives than it consumes.
> Figuring two hours per week of training, since that was the average reported
> by runners in the Cooper Institute study, the researchers estimated that a
> typical runner would spend less than six months actually running over the
> course of almost 40 years, but could expect an increase in life expectancy
> of 3.2 years, for a net gain of about 2.8 years."

Yes, but you don't get to RUN in your sleep.  You spend WAKING time running.
So, you have to compare the WAKING time spent running to the WAKING time
gained from it.

Using the figures quoted above, 6 months were spent AWAKE and RUNNING o
gain ~2 years of WAKING life.  And, no mention of the time preparing to
run, recovering from the run, injuries incurred while running, etc.

[I say this all tongue-in-cheek, to put things in perspective.  Years ago,
it was pitched as "30 minutes/day" -- which ended up exactly covering the
increased life expectancy; i.e., you spent all that extra portion of your
life RUNNING  :> ]

I "walk briskly" (4MPH) for an hour a day, 7 days a week.  This isn't enough
to get my heart rate elevated significantly -- apparently a sign that my
heart can easily meet my body's needs; esp as my heart rate returns to normal
in tens of seconds after stopping the exertion.

For "strenuous" activity, I rely on things like digging, moving stone/tile,
etc.  All being considerably more effective at elevating my heart rate
(though a lot harder to do for extended periods of time -- esp in the sorts
of elevated temperatures we have here)

> Reminds me of a joke about marriage, since married people statistically live
> longer: "If you want to die a slow death..."

"It sure FEELS like a lot longer..."

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#460697

On Wednesday, May 17, 2017 at 1:23:22 PM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
> On 5/17/2017 12:39 PM, mrdarrett@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Wednesday, May 17, 2017 at 12:06:29 PM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
> >> On 5/17/2017 11:54 AM, mrdarrett@gmail.com wrote:
> >>> Just 5 min/day of running, huh.
> >>> https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/07/30/running-just-5-minutes-a-day-has-long-lasting-benefits/
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> "As a group, runners gained about three extra years of life compared with those
> >> adults who never ran"
> >>
> >> 5 minutes/day * 365 days/year * 70 years/active lifespan = 127750 min =
> >> 2129 hours = (a "work year")
> >>
> >> (you spend 1/3 of those "extra years of life" ASLEEP and a good portion of
> >> the remaining waking time RUNNING!  :>
> >>
> >>> And...
> >>> https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/12/well/move/an-hour-of-running-may-add-seven-hours-to-your-life.html
> >
> > From the second article: "Could it be, they asked rather peevishly, that if
> > in order to reduce your risk of dying by a year, you had to spend the
> > equivalent of a year’s worth of time on the trails or track, producing no
> > discernible net gain?"
> >
> > "Perhaps most interesting, the researchers calculated that, hour for hour,
> > running statistically returns more time to people’s lives than it consumes.
> > Figuring two hours per week of training, since that was the average reported
> > by runners in the Cooper Institute study, the researchers estimated that a
> > typical runner would spend less than six months actually running over the
> > course of almost 40 years, but could expect an increase in life expectancy
> > of 3.2 years, for a net gain of about 2.8 years."
> 
> Yes, but you don't get to RUN in your sleep.  You spend WAKING time running.
> So, you have to compare the WAKING time spent running to the WAKING time
> gained from it.
> 
> Using the figures quoted above, 6 months were spent AWAKE and RUNNING o
> gain ~2 years of WAKING life.  And, no mention of the time preparing to
> run, recovering from the run, injuries incurred while running, etc.
> 
> [I say this all tongue-in-cheek, to put things in perspective.  Years ago,
> it was pitched as "30 minutes/day" -- which ended up exactly covering the
> increased life expectancy; i.e., you spent all that extra portion of your
> life RUNNING  :> ]


Oh!  I get it now :D


> I "walk briskly" (4MPH) for an hour a day, 7 days a week.  This isn't enough
> to get my heart rate elevated significantly -- apparently a sign that my
> heart can easily meet my body's needs; esp as my heart rate returns to normal
> in tens of seconds after stopping the exertion.
> 
> For "strenuous" activity, I rely on things like digging, moving stone/tile,
> etc.  All being considerably more effective at elevating my heart rate
> (though a lot harder to do for extended periods of time -- esp in the sorts
> of elevated temperatures we have here)


I'm still pumped from lifting the Arduino circuit board and that TO-220 MOSFET (:D 

 
> > Reminds me of a joke about marriage, since married people statistically live
> > longer: "If you want to die a slow death..."
> 
> "It sure FEELS like a lot longer..."

(hahahahahahaha)

Michael

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#460726

On Wed, 17 May 2017 12:39:56 -0700 (PDT), mrdarrett@gmail.com wrote:

>On Wednesday, May 17, 2017 at 12:06:29 PM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
>> On 5/17/2017 11:54 AM, mrdarrett@gmail.com wrote:
>> > Just 5 min/day of running, huh.
>> > https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/07/30/running-just-5-minutes-a-day-has-long-lasting-benefits/
>> 
>> "As a group, runners gained about three extra years of life compared with those 
>> adults who never ran"
>> 
>> 5 minutes/day * 365 days/year * 70 years/active lifespan
>> = 127750 min = 2129 hours = (a "work year")
>> 
>> (you spend 1/3 of those "extra years of life" ASLEEP and a good portion
>> of the remaining waking time RUNNING!  :>
>> 
>> > And...
>> > https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/12/well/move/an-hour-of-running-may-add-seven-hours-to-your-life.html
>
>
>From the second article:
>"Could it be, they asked rather peevishly, that if in order to reduce your risk of dying by a year, you had to spend the equivalent of a year’s worth of time on the trails or track, producing no discernible net gain?"
>
>"Perhaps most interesting, the researchers calculated that, hour for hour, running statistically returns more time to people’s lives than it consumes. Figuring two hours per week of training, since that was the average reported by runners in the Cooper Institute study, the researchers estimated that a typical runner would spend less than six months actually running over the course of almost 40 years, but could expect an increase in life expectancy of 3.2 years, for a net gain of about 2.8 years."
>
>Reminds me of a joke about marriage, since married people statistically live longer: "If you want to die a slow death..."

Marriage doesn't make you live longer.  It just seems that way.

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#460729

On 5/17/2017 3:39 PM, mrdarrett@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 17, 2017 at 12:06:29 PM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
>> On 5/17/2017 11:54 AM, mrdarrett@gmail.com wrote:
>>> Just 5 min/day of running, huh.
>>> https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/07/30/running-just-5-minutes-a-day-has-long-lasting-benefits/
>>
>> "As a group, runners gained about three extra years of life compared with those
>> adults who never ran"
>>
>> 5 minutes/day * 365 days/year * 70 years/active lifespan
>> = 127750 min = 2129 hours = (a "work year")
>>
>> (you spend 1/3 of those "extra years of life" ASLEEP and a good portion
>> of the remaining waking time RUNNING!  :>
>>
>>> And...
>>> https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/12/well/move/an-hour-of-running-may-add-seven-hours-to-your-life.html
>
>
> From the second article:
> "Could it be, they asked rather peevishly, that if in order to reduce your risk of dying by a year, you had to spend the equivalent of a year’s worth of time on the trails or track, producing no discernible net gain?"
>
> "Perhaps most interesting, the researchers calculated that, hour for hour, running statistically returns more time to people’s lives than it consumes. Figuring two hours per week of training, since that was the average reported by runners in the Cooper Institute study, the researchers estimated that a typical runner would spend less than six months actually running over the course of almost 40 years, but could expect an increase in life expectancy of 3.2 years, for a net gain of about 2.8 years."
>
> Reminds me of a joke about marriage, since married people statistically live longer: "If you want to die a slow death..."

I don't know any runners who don't love running.  I think that says it 
all.  I believe there are studies showing people with hobbies they love 
live longer.  Is running the only way to extend your life?

-- 

Rick C

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#460732

On Wed, 17 May 2017 19:52:27 -0400, rickman <gnuarm@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 5/17/2017 3:39 PM, mrdarrett@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Wednesday, May 17, 2017 at 12:06:29 PM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
>>> On 5/17/2017 11:54 AM, mrdarrett@gmail.com wrote:
>>>> Just 5 min/day of running, huh.
>>>> https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/07/30/running-just-5-minutes-a-day-has-long-lasting-benefits/
>>>
>>> "As a group, runners gained about three extra years of life compared with those
>>> adults who never ran"
>>>
>>> 5 minutes/day * 365 days/year * 70 years/active lifespan
>>> = 127750 min = 2129 hours = (a "work year")
>>>
>>> (you spend 1/3 of those "extra years of life" ASLEEP and a good portion
>>> of the remaining waking time RUNNING!  :>
>>>
>>>> And...
>>>> https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/12/well/move/an-hour-of-running-may-add-seven-hours-to-your-life.html
>>
>>
>> From the second article:
>> "Could it be, they asked rather peevishly, that if in order to reduce your risk of dying by a year, you had to spend the equivalent of a year’s worth of time on the trails or track, producing no discernible net gain?"
>>
>> "Perhaps most interesting, the researchers calculated that, hour for hour, running statistically returns more time to people’s lives than it consumes. Figuring two hours per week of training, since that was the average reported by runners in the Cooper Institute study, the researchers estimated that a typical runner would spend less than six months actually running over the course of almost 40 years, but could expect an increase in life expectancy of 3.2 years, for a net gain of about 2.8 years."
>>
>> Reminds me of a joke about marriage, since married people statistically live longer: "If you want to die a slow death..."
>
>I don't know any runners who don't love running.  I think that says it 
>all.  I believe there are studies showing people with hobbies they love 
>live longer.  Is running the only way to extend your life?

I don't run (can't anymore) but I do 1.5-2hrs on the treadmill at the
gym every day (well, I did until I screwed up my hip a couple of weeks
ago).  I certainly don't "like" doing it and I certainly don't like
the time "lost" but Netflix makes it tolerable.

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#460689

On 2017-05-17 11:54, mrdarrett@gmail.com wrote:
> Just 5 min/day of running, huh.
> https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/07/30/running-just-5-minutes-a-day-has-long-lasting-benefits/
>
> And...
> https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/12/well/move/an-hour-of-running-may-add-seven-hours-to-your-life.html
>

So let's see, I assume bicycling hard counts just as well. 4000mi each 
year, assuming an average speed of 11mph with the hills and all, I 
should be adding a whopping 2545 hours or 0.3 years of additional life 
per year. So I'll be like Methusaleh some day :-)

-- 
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

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#460692

On Wednesday, May 17, 2017 at 12:13:11 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
> On 2017-05-17 11:54, mrdarrett@gmail.com wrote:
> > Just 5 min/day of running, huh.
> > https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/07/30/running-just-5-minutes-a-day-has-long-lasting-benefits/
> >
> > And...
> > https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/12/well/move/an-hour-of-running-may-add-seven-hours-to-your-life.html
> >
> 
> So let's see, I assume bicycling hard counts just as well. 4000mi each 
> year, assuming an average speed of 11mph with the hills and all, I 
> should be adding a whopping 2545 hours or 0.3 years of additional life 
> per year. So I'll be like Methusaleh some day :-)
> 
> -- 
> Regards, Joerg
> 
> http://www.analogconsultants.com/


"Meanwhile, other kinds of exercise also reliably benefited life expectancy, the researchers found, but not to the same degree as running. Walking, cycling and other activities, even if they required the same exertion as running, typically dropped the risk of premature death by about 12 percent. (To make my own biases clear, I run but I also love cycling and I walk my dogs every day.)"

Note sure why that is :)

"Of course, these additions “are not infinite,” Dr. Lee says. Running does not make people immortal. The gains in life expectancy are capped at around three extra years, he says, however much people run."

So much for the Methuselah plan.  Maybe Enoch?  :)

Michael

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#460696

On 2017-05-17 12:41, mrdarrett@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 17, 2017 at 12:13:11 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
>> On 2017-05-17 11:54, mrdarrett@gmail.com wrote:
>>> Just 5 min/day of running, huh.
>>> https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/07/30/running-just-5-minutes-a-day-has-long-lasting-benefits/
>>>
>>>
>>>
And...
>>> https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/12/well/move/an-hour-of-running-may-add-seven-hours-to-your-life.html
>>>
>>
>>
>>>
So let's see, I assume bicycling hard counts just as well. 4000mi each
>> year, assuming an average speed of 11mph with the hills and all, I
>> should be adding a whopping 2545 hours or 0.3 years of additional
>> life per year. So I'll be like Methusaleh some day :-)
>>
>> -- Regards, Joerg
>>
>> http://www.analogconsultants.com/
>
>
> "Meanwhile, other kinds of exercise also reliably benefited life
> expectancy, the researchers found, but not to the same degree as
> running. Walking, cycling and other activities, even if they required
> the same exertion as running, typically dropped the risk of premature
> death by about 12 percent. (To make my own biases clear, I run but I
> also love cycling and I walk my dogs every day.)"
>
> Note sure why that is :)
>
> "Of course, these additions “are not infinite,” Dr. Lee says. Running
> does not make people immortal. The gains in life expectancy are
> capped at around three extra years, he says, however much people
> run."
>
> So much for the Methuselah plan.  Maybe Enoch?  :)
>

If it is capped to three years then there are easier plans: Eating! That 
can supposedly add 6-1/2 years :-)

http://newagejournal.com/how-to-add-more-years-to-your-life

Sadly beer didn't make that list. I started home-brewing again last year.

-- 
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

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#460699

On Wednesday, May 17, 2017 at 1:49:27 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
> On 2017-05-17 12:41, mrdarrett@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Wednesday, May 17, 2017 at 12:13:11 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
> >> On 2017-05-17 11:54, mrdarrett@gmail.com wrote:
> >>> Just 5 min/day of running, huh.
> >>> https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/07/30/running-just-5-minutes-a-day-has-long-lasting-benefits/
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> And...
> >>> https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/12/well/move/an-hour-of-running-may-add-seven-hours-to-your-life.html
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> So let's see, I assume bicycling hard counts just as well. 4000mi each
> >> year, assuming an average speed of 11mph with the hills and all, I
> >> should be adding a whopping 2545 hours or 0.3 years of additional
> >> life per year. So I'll be like Methusaleh some day :-)
> >>
> >> -- Regards, Joerg
> >>
> >> http://www.analogconsultants.com/
> >
> >
> > "Meanwhile, other kinds of exercise also reliably benefited life
> > expectancy, the researchers found, but not to the same degree as
> > running. Walking, cycling and other activities, even if they required
> > the same exertion as running, typically dropped the risk of premature
> > death by about 12 percent. (To make my own biases clear, I run but I
> > also love cycling and I walk my dogs every day.)"
> >
> > Note sure why that is :)
> >
> > "Of course, these additions “are not infinite,” Dr. Lee says. Running
> > does not make people immortal. The gains in life expectancy are
> > capped at around three extra years, he says, however much people
> > run."
> >
> > So much for the Methuselah plan.  Maybe Enoch?  :)
> >
> 
> If it is capped to three years then there are easier plans: Eating! That 
> can supposedly add 6-1/2 years :-)
> 
> http://newagejournal.com/how-to-add-more-years-to-your-life
> 
> Sadly beer didn't make that list. I started home-brewing again last year.
> 
> -- 
> Regards, Joerg
> 
> http://www.analogconsultants.com/


Did you now!  There's a pretty good supplier, You Brew It, in Rancho Cordova (closer to where I live than the Brewmeister shops).  Their supplies (yeast, bottles) are cheaper than Brewmeister; sadly, the grains are more expensive.

After brewing my 12th batch, I've come to the conclusion that I'm not really a beer drinker.  I mostly just give it away to friends, and I just practice the art.  I made a gallon or so of Russian Imperial Stout though that my cousin likes.  After mashing, I made another gallon or so of Honey Blonde Ale from the leftover sugars in the malt.  I like that ale a lot more.  Owner of You Brew It said to get Cactus Gold Honey Powder from KP International for the honey mouthfeel.  In the past, I used actual honey, which the yeast happily turned into additional alcohol, with no honey flavor whatsoever... 

Michael

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#460701

On 2017-05-17 13:54, mrdarrett@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 17, 2017 at 1:49:27 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
>> On 2017-05-17 12:41, mrdarrett@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, May 17, 2017 at 12:13:11 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
>>>> On 2017-05-17 11:54, mrdarrett@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>> Just 5 min/day of running, huh.
>>>>> https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/07/30/running-just-5-minutes-a-day-has-long-lasting-benefits/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>>
And...
>>>>> https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/12/well/move/an-hour-of-running-may-add-seven-hours-to-your-life.html
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>
>>>>>
So let's see, I assume bicycling hard counts just as well. 4000mi each
>>>> year, assuming an average speed of 11mph with the hills and
>>>> all, I should be adding a whopping 2545 hours or 0.3 years of
>>>> additional life per year. So I'll be like Methusaleh some day
>>>> :-)
>>>>
>>>> -- Regards, Joerg
>>>>
>>>> http://www.analogconsultants.com/
>>>
>>>
>>> "Meanwhile, other kinds of exercise also reliably benefited life
>>> expectancy, the researchers found, but not to the same degree as
>>> running. Walking, cycling and other activities, even if they
>>> required the same exertion as running, typically dropped the risk
>>> of premature death by about 12 percent. (To make my own biases
>>> clear, I run but I also love cycling and I walk my dogs every
>>> day.)"
>>>
>>> Note sure why that is :)
>>>
>>> "Of course, these additions “are not infinite,” Dr. Lee says.
>>> Running does not make people immortal. The gains in life
>>> expectancy are capped at around three extra years, he says,
>>> however much people run."
>>>
>>> So much for the Methuselah plan.  Maybe Enoch?  :)
>>>
>>
>> If it is capped to three years then there are easier plans: Eating!
>> That can supposedly add 6-1/2 years :-)
>>
>> http://newagejournal.com/how-to-add-more-years-to-your-life
>>
>> Sadly beer didn't make that list. I started home-brewing again last
>> year.
>>
>> -- Regards, Joerg
>>
>> http://www.analogconsultants.com/
>
>
> Did you now!  There's a pretty good supplier, You Brew It, in Rancho
> Cordova (closer to where I live than the Brewmeister shops).  Their
> supplies (yeast, bottles) are cheaper than Brewmeister; sadly, the
> grains are more expensive.
>

Grains (or malt extract) are the main cost factors in beer. I get my 
stuff in Minnisohtah:

https://www.midwestsupplies.com/

Small stuff such as caps I pick up at Brewmeister because that is easy 
to reach via the bike path network in the valley. Always a good excuse 
for a 40-miler on the old road bike. Their caps are IMO better than the 
ones from Midwest (harder in the metal).

Bottles we saved up enough and cleaned off the labels. Or course, 
Grolsch flip-tops are my favorites. Yeast isn't a cost factor because I 
harvest it one to two times for re-pitching. I can always harvest enough 
for two beers from the trub of a batch. So one $4 pack of Safale US-05 
can make five 5-gallon batches instead of only one. Haven't dared to go 
3rd generation yet.

The trub doesn't go to waste either, whether the yeast was harvested 
from it or not. We turn that into really tasty "trub bread". Always 
baked over charcoal or wood fire in the Weber kettle. We haven't bought 
bread since summer last year.


> After brewing my 12th batch, I've come to the conclusion that I'm not
> really a beer drinker.  I mostly just give it away to friends, and I
> just practice the art.  I made a gallon or so of Russian Imperial
> Stout though that my cousin likes.  After mashing, I made another
> gallon or so of Honey Blonde Ale from the leftover sugars in the
> malt.  I like that ale a lot more.  Owner of You Brew It said to get
> Cactus Gold Honey Powder from KP International for the honey
> mouthfeel.  In the past, I used actual honey, which the yeast happily
> turned into additional alcohol, with no honey flavor whatsoever...
>

When I use honey I put it in right at the end of boil, on the advice of 
someone in a brewing NG. It makes American Wheat which we both aren't 
partial to really tasty. I am on batch #37 now, not counting the first 
few runs.

I lucked out and got an old wine cooler from a neighbor for $100. 
Scrapped out some stuff and reworked the electronics. It can now hold 
two primary fermenters and three secondaries. Currently holding: A 
Belgian Saison, a Koelsch, an Autumn Amber Ale, an IPA and a Pale Ale.

My all time favorite is Belgian Tripel. It clocks in around 8% ABV so 
the car keys must be retired for the night.

-- 
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

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#460708

On Wednesday, May 17, 2017 at 2:29:44 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
> On 2017-05-17 13:54, mrdarrett@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Wednesday, May 17, 2017 at 1:49:27 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
> >> On 2017-05-17 12:41, mrdarrett@gmail.com wrote:
> >>> On Wednesday, May 17, 2017 at 12:13:11 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
> >>>> On 2017-05-17 11:54, mrdarrett@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>>> Just 5 min/day of running, huh.
> >>>>> https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/07/30/running-just-5-minutes-a-day-has-long-lasting-benefits/
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>
> >>>>>
> And...
> >>>>> https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/12/well/move/an-hour-of-running-may-add-seven-hours-to-your-life.html
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>
> >>>>>
> So let's see, I assume bicycling hard counts just as well. 4000mi each
> >>>> year, assuming an average speed of 11mph with the hills and
> >>>> all, I should be adding a whopping 2545 hours or 0.3 years of
> >>>> additional life per year. So I'll be like Methusaleh some day
> >>>> :-)
> >>>>
> >>>> -- Regards, Joerg
> >>>>
> >>>> http://www.analogconsultants.com/
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> "Meanwhile, other kinds of exercise also reliably benefited life
> >>> expectancy, the researchers found, but not to the same degree as
> >>> running. Walking, cycling and other activities, even if they
> >>> required the same exertion as running, typically dropped the risk
> >>> of premature death by about 12 percent. (To make my own biases
> >>> clear, I run but I also love cycling and I walk my dogs every
> >>> day.)"
> >>>
> >>> Note sure why that is :)
> >>>
> >>> "Of course, these additions “are not infinite,” Dr. Lee says.
> >>> Running does not make people immortal. The gains in life
> >>> expectancy are capped at around three extra years, he says,
> >>> however much people run."
> >>>
> >>> So much for the Methuselah plan.  Maybe Enoch?  :)
> >>>
> >>
> >> If it is capped to three years then there are easier plans: Eating!
> >> That can supposedly add 6-1/2 years :-)
> >>
> >> http://newagejournal.com/how-to-add-more-years-to-your-life
> >>
> >> Sadly beer didn't make that list. I started home-brewing again last
> >> year.
> >>
> >> -- Regards, Joerg
> >>
> >> http://www.analogconsultants.com/
> >
> >
> > Did you now!  There's a pretty good supplier, You Brew It, in Rancho
> > Cordova (closer to where I live than the Brewmeister shops).  Their
> > supplies (yeast, bottles) are cheaper than Brewmeister; sadly, the
> > grains are more expensive.
> >
> 
> Grains (or malt extract) are the main cost factors in beer. I get my 
> stuff in Minnisohtah:
> 
> https://www.midwestsupplies.com/


Nice!  Buying by the sack saves money also.


> Small stuff such as caps I pick up at Brewmeister because that is easy 
> to reach via the bike path network in the valley. Always a good excuse 
> for a 40-miler on the old road bike. Their caps are IMO better than the 
> ones from Midwest (harder in the metal).
> 
> Bottles we saved up enough and cleaned off the labels. Or course, 
> Grolsch flip-tops are my favorites. Yeast isn't a cost factor because I 
> harvest it one to two times for re-pitching. I can always harvest enough 
> for two beers from the trub of a batch. So one $4 pack of Safale US-05 
> can make five 5-gallon batches instead of only one. Haven't dared to go 
> 3rd generation yet.


Safale US-05 is good stuff.  From the charts in the Fermentis Tips and Tricks, I'm thinking about trying Safbrew BE-256 next.

 
> The trub doesn't go to waste either, whether the yeast was harvested 
> from it or not. We turn that into really tasty "trub bread". Always 
> baked over charcoal or wood fire in the Weber kettle. We haven't bought 
> bread since summer last year.


Nice!  Trub from post-boil, or trub from fermenting?


> > After brewing my 12th batch, I've come to the conclusion that I'm not
> > really a beer drinker.  I mostly just give it away to friends, and I
> > just practice the art.  I made a gallon or so of Russian Imperial
> > Stout though that my cousin likes.  After mashing, I made another
> > gallon or so of Honey Blonde Ale from the leftover sugars in the
> > malt.  I like that ale a lot more.  Owner of You Brew It said to get
> > Cactus Gold Honey Powder from KP International for the honey
> > mouthfeel.  In the past, I used actual honey, which the yeast happily
> > turned into additional alcohol, with no honey flavor whatsoever...
> >
> 
> When I use honey I put it in right at the end of boil, on the advice of 
> someone in a brewing NG. It makes American Wheat which we both aren't 
> partial to really tasty. I am on batch #37 now, not counting the first 
> few runs.


I think I did it that way too, but still didn't get much honey flavor out of it.  Maybe I'm wrong though; it's been about a year.  Ah well, to the lab!  :)



> I lucked out and got an old wine cooler from a neighbor for $100. 
> Scrapped out some stuff and reworked the electronics. It can now hold 
> two primary fermenters and three secondaries. Currently holding: A 
> Belgian Saison, a Koelsch, an Autumn Amber Ale, an IPA and a Pale Ale.
> 
> My all time favorite is Belgian Tripel. It clocks in around 8% ABV so 
> the car keys must be retired for the night.


Nice!  I mostly just stick to the higher-temperature ale yeasts, and brew during Winter/Spring.


> 
> -- 
> Regards, Joerg
> 
> http://www.analogconsultants.com/


Michael

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#460712

On 2017-05-17 15:10, mrdarrett@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 17, 2017 at 2:29:44 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
>> On 2017-05-17 13:54, mrdarrett@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, May 17, 2017 at 1:49:27 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
>>>> On 2017-05-17 12:41, mrdarrett@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>> On Wednesday, May 17, 2017 at 12:13:11 PM UTC-7, Joerg
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> On 2017-05-17 11:54, mrdarrett@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>> Just 5 min/day of running, huh.
>>>>>>> https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/07/30/running-just-5-minutes-a-day-has-long-lasting-benefits/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>
>>>>>>>
And...
>>>>>>> https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/12/well/move/an-hour-of-running-may-add-seven-hours-to-your-life.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>
>>>>>>>
So let's see, I assume bicycling hard counts just as well. 4000mi each
>>>>>> year, assuming an average speed of 11mph with the hills
>>>>>> and all, I should be adding a whopping 2545 hours or 0.3
>>>>>> years of additional life per year. So I'll be like
>>>>>> Methusaleh some day :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -- Regards, Joerg
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.analogconsultants.com/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "Meanwhile, other kinds of exercise also reliably benefited
>>>>> life expectancy, the researchers found, but not to the same
>>>>> degree as running. Walking, cycling and other activities,
>>>>> even if they required the same exertion as running, typically
>>>>> dropped the risk of premature death by about 12 percent. (To
>>>>> make my own biases clear, I run but I also love cycling and I
>>>>> walk my dogs every day.)"
>>>>>
>>>>> Note sure why that is :)
>>>>>
>>>>> "Of course, these additions “are not infinite,” Dr. Lee
>>>>> says. Running does not make people immortal. The gains in
>>>>> life expectancy are capped at around three extra years, he
>>>>> says, however much people run."
>>>>>
>>>>> So much for the Methuselah plan.  Maybe Enoch?  :)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If it is capped to three years then there are easier plans:
>>>> Eating! That can supposedly add 6-1/2 years :-)
>>>>
>>>> http://newagejournal.com/how-to-add-more-years-to-your-life
>>>>
>>>> Sadly beer didn't make that list. I started home-brewing again
>>>> last year.
>>>>
>>>> -- Regards, Joerg
>>>>
>>>> http://www.analogconsultants.com/
>>>
>>>
>>> Did you now!  There's a pretty good supplier, You Brew It, in
>>> Rancho Cordova (closer to where I live than the Brewmeister
>>> shops).  Their supplies (yeast, bottles) are cheaper than
>>> Brewmeister; sadly, the grains are more expensive.
>>>
>>
>> Grains (or malt extract) are the main cost factors in beer. I get
>> my stuff in Minnisohtah:
>>
>> https://www.midwestsupplies.com/
>
>
> Nice!  Buying by the sack saves money also.
>

I am still a lowly extract brewer though. However, I am keeping my eyes 
peeled for two-roller grain crusher. Some day I want to do BIAB but must 
figure out a way to use two bags instead of one, on account of a bad 
lower back. I can't lift heavy stuff while bent over. Or rather, I can 
but then I will pay for that.

Grain doesn't save a lot of money or often none at all but allows more 
mods. I usually brew two batches in a day. Having only two 1kW electric 
burners under a tamale steamer pot it takes time to heat. That means 
that time-wise I might be able to do one all-grain and one extract 
session if we have dinner a little later.

>
>> Small stuff such as caps I pick up at Brewmeister because that is
>> easy to reach via the bike path network in the valley. Always a
>> good excuse for a 40-miler on the old road bike. Their caps are IMO
>> better than the ones from Midwest (harder in the metal).
>>
>> Bottles we saved up enough and cleaned off the labels. Or course,
>> Grolsch flip-tops are my favorites. Yeast isn't a cost factor
>> because I harvest it one to two times for re-pitching. I can always
>> harvest enough for two beers from the trub of a batch. So one $4
>> pack of Safale US-05 can make five 5-gallon batches instead of only
>> one. Haven't dared to go 3rd generation yet.
>
>
> Safale US-05 is good stuff.  From the charts in the Fermentis Tips
> and Tricks, I'm thinking about trying Safbrew BE-256 next.
>

Be careful with BE-256. That is what I used on the Belgian Tripel and it 
went "nuclear". After the first mess (lid of the fermenter came off) I 
placed a blow-off hose and bucket. However, the diameter of the racking 
hose was still not large enough. Lots of evil hissing and roaring plus a 
minor mess, the lid came partially off. Phsssss ... rot-tot-tot ... 
*BURP* .. phseeeee ... POOF .. gurgle. So now I mounted a 1/2" Bulkhead 
connector in the fermenter lid and keep a strudy washing machine hose at 
hand for next time.

>
>> The trub doesn't go to waste either, whether the yeast was
>> harvested from it or not. We turn that into really tasty "trub
>> bread". Always baked over charcoal or wood fire in the Weber
>> kettle. We haven't bought bread since summer last year.
>
>
> Nice!  Trub from post-boil, or trub from fermenting?
>

It's the trub from fermenting. You can't use the hop residue and other 
gunk at the bottom of the boil pot. Also, that contains the carrageenan 
which would probably cause a really funky taste.

>
>>> After brewing my 12th batch, I've come to the conclusion that I'm
>>> not really a beer drinker.  I mostly just give it away to
>>> friends, and I just practice the art.  I made a gallon or so of
>>> Russian Imperial Stout though that my cousin likes.  After
>>> mashing, I made another gallon or so of Honey Blonde Ale from the
>>> leftover sugars in the malt.  I like that ale a lot more.  Owner
>>> of You Brew It said to get Cactus Gold Honey Powder from KP
>>> International for the honey mouthfeel.  In the past, I used
>>> actual honey, which the yeast happily turned into additional
>>> alcohol, with no honey flavor whatsoever...
>>>
>>
>> When I use honey I put it in right at the end of boil, on the
>> advice of someone in a brewing NG. It makes American Wheat which we
>> both aren't partial to really tasty. I am on batch #37 now, not
>> counting the first few runs.
>
>
> I think I did it that way too, but still didn't get much honey flavor
> out of it.  Maybe I'm wrong though; it's been about a year.  Ah well,
> to the lab!  :)
>

To get honey flavor you'd have to add it much later, after cooling off a 
bit. We dont want intense honey flavor though, just a smidgen.

What I do is pour it in after turning off the burners and then I use the 
wort chiller coil to mix it in. The coil needs to walk the pot anyhow 
and I already stick it in during the last few minute of boil (sans 
cooling water) to sanitize it via heat.

>
>> I lucked out and got an old wine cooler from a neighbor for $100.
>> Scrapped out some stuff and reworked the electronics. It can now
>> hold two primary fermenters and three secondaries. Currently
>> holding: A Belgian Saison, a Koelsch, an Autumn Amber Ale, an IPA
>> and a Pale Ale.
>>
>> My all time favorite is Belgian Tripel. It clocks in around 8% ABV
>> so the car keys must be retired for the night.
>
>
> Nice!  I mostly just stick to the higher-temperature ale yeasts, and
> brew during Winter/Spring.
>

I bought and modded the wine fridge so I'd be able to brew year round 
and (almost) all styles. I added a regulated heat mode and a McGyver 
style heater for that, "electronics guys style", can be seen in the 2nd 
link:

http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/brew/chamber1.JPG
http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/brew/chamber2.JPG

This way temps do not drop too low during winter months in the basement 
room. Having to run the pellet stove down there just to keep the beer 
happy gets expensive.

If I'd ever do a bock I can use an old Bosch fridge in the basement 
which can hold one fermenter and run that much colder.

-- 
Arriba, abajo, al centro y adentro, ... Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#460719

On Wednesday, May 17, 2017 at 3:42:01 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:

...

> >> Grains (or malt extract) are the main cost factors in beer. I get
> >> my stuff in Minnisohtah:
> >>
> >> https://www.midwestsupplies.com/
> >
> >
> > Nice!  Buying by the sack saves money also.
> >
> 
> I am still a lowly extract brewer though. However, I am keeping my eyes 
> peeled for two-roller grain crusher. Some day I want to do BIAB but must 
> figure out a way to use two bags instead of one, on account of a bad 
> lower back. I can't lift heavy stuff while bent over. Or rather, I can 
> but then I will pay for that.
> 
> Grain doesn't save a lot of money or often none at all but allows more 
> mods. I usually brew two batches in a day. Having only two 1kW electric 
> burners under a tamale steamer pot it takes time to heat. That means 
> that time-wise I might be able to do one all-grain and one extract 
> session if we have dinner a little later.


Huh.  I went with grains precisely because they're cheaper.  Of course that also assumes my time is worth $0/hr.  I still consider myself a student at this, so it's worth it.

I just put the grains in the blender in small batches.  I used to do the bag thing, then decided, hey, I'm going to let it settle out anyway, so why not just siphon off the clear liquid.  It takes longer, but that's how I do it without a lauter tun.  Since it's settling, it's ok if the particles are somewhat finer than with a crusher.  I should be able to extract more of the sugars, too.  So, in a nutshell, mix the powdered grains with water, bring to 150 degrees F while mixing, scoop into empty 1-gallon wine jugs, allow to settle, siphon off the clear liquid for the later boil, return the solids to the pot, add more water, and repeat until I have enough liquid for the boil.


> Be careful with BE-256. That is what I used on the Belgian Tripel and it 
> went "nuclear". After the first mess (lid of the fermenter came off) I 
> placed a blow-off hose and bucket. However, the diameter of the racking 
> hose was still not large enough. Lots of evil hissing and roaring plus a 
> minor mess, the lid came partially off. Phsssss ... rot-tot-tot ... 
> *BURP* .. phseeeee ... POOF .. gurgle. So now I mounted a 1/2" Bulkhead 
> connector in the fermenter lid and keep a strudy washing machine hose at 
> hand for next time.


That reminds me!  Since I only brew about 2 gallons at a time (my biggest pot is only 3 gallons or so), and since I use 1-gallon empty glass wine jugs as my fermenters, I only put about 1 tsp of yeast into each jug.  Maybe 1/2 tsp... I have to double-check my notes. It helps to keep the reaction manageable.  Before, yeah, I had serious overflow problems too.  I also try to only fill the fermenters about 2/3 full, max, just in case.


> >
> >> The trub doesn't go to waste either, whether the yeast was
> >> harvested from it or not. We turn that into really tasty "trub
> >> bread". Always baked over charcoal or wood fire in the Weber
> >> kettle. We haven't bought bread since summer last year.
> >
> >
> > Nice!  Trub from post-boil, or trub from fermenting?
> >
> 
> It's the trub from fermenting. You can't use the hop residue and other 
> gunk at the bottom of the boil pot. Also, that contains the carrageenan 
> which would probably cause a really funky taste.


Ah!  Ok, thanks for clarifying.  Although, the hops would make a fairly interesting bread, huh... hmm...


> I bought and modded the wine fridge so I'd be able to brew year round 
> and (almost) all styles. I added a regulated heat mode and a McGyver 
> style heater for that, "electronics guys style", can be seen in the 2nd 
> link:
> 
> http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/brew/chamber1.JPG
> http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/brew/chamber2.JPG
> 
> This way temps do not drop too low during winter months in the basement 
> room. Having to run the pellet stove down there just to keep the beer 
> happy gets expensive.
> 
> If I'd ever do a bock I can use an old Bosch fridge in the basement 
> which can hold one fermenter and run that much colder.


Very nice!  I would just do it when the weather is being cooperative, but that's just me.


> 
> -- 
> Arriba, abajo, al centro y adentro, ... Joerg
> 
> http://www.analogconsultants.com/


Michael

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#460723

On 2017-05-17 16:05, mrdarrett@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 17, 2017 at 3:42:01 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
>
> ...
>
>>>> Grains (or malt extract) are the main cost factors in beer. I
>>>> get my stuff in Minnisohtah:
>>>>
>>>> https://www.midwestsupplies.com/
>>>
>>>
>>> Nice!  Buying by the sack saves money also.
>>>
>>
>> I am still a lowly extract brewer though. However, I am keeping my
>> eyes peeled for two-roller grain crusher. Some day I want to do
>> BIAB but must figure out a way to use two bags instead of one, on
>> account of a bad lower back. I can't lift heavy stuff while bent
>> over. Or rather, I can but then I will pay for that.
>>
>> Grain doesn't save a lot of money or often none at all but allows
>> more mods. I usually brew two batches in a day. Having only two 1kW
>> electric burners under a tamale steamer pot it takes time to heat.
>> That means that time-wise I might be able to do one all-grain and
>> one extract session if we have dinner a little later.
>
>
> Huh.  I went with grains precisely because they're cheaper.


Not really. There is no way I can make five gallons of IPA, Stout, Pale 
Ale, Cream Ale or American Wheat for $20 using grain. Mostly because 
hops and all the other stuff adds cost.

https://www.midwestsupplies.com/nsearch/?q=simply+beer

I modify those though.


>                                                          ... Of
> course that also assumes my time is worth $0/hr.  I still consider
> myself a student at this, so it's worth it.
>

Yes, it's a hobby and cost isn't why I do this. The main reason is that 
every bottle tastes like a growler fresh off the tap. You can't get that 
great taste with store bought beer.


> I just put the grains in the blender in small batches.  I used to do
> the bag thing, then decided, hey, I'm going to let it settle out
> anyway, so why not just siphon off the clear liquid.  It takes
> longer, but that's how I do it without a lauter tun.  Since it's
> settling, it's ok if the particles are somewhat finer than with a
> crusher.


With the bag one of the advantages is you can mill really fine. There 
isn't the risk of s stuck sparge.


>  ... I should be able to extract more of the sugars, too.  So,
> in a nutshell, mix the powdered grains with water, bring to 150
> degrees F while mixing, scoop into empty 1-gallon wine jugs, allow to
> settle, siphon off the clear liquid for the later boil, return the
> solids to the pot, add more water, and repeat until I have enough
> liquid for the boil.
>
>
>> Be careful with BE-256. That is what I used on the Belgian Tripel
>> and it went "nuclear". After the first mess (lid of the fermenter
>> came off) I placed a blow-off hose and bucket. However, the
>> diameter of the racking hose was still not large enough. Lots of
>> evil hissing and roaring plus a minor mess, the lid came partially
>> off. Phsssss ... rot-tot-tot ... *BURP* .. phseeeee ... POOF ..
>> gurgle. So now I mounted a 1/2" Bulkhead connector in the fermenter
>> lid and keep a strudy washing machine hose at hand for next time.
>
>
> That reminds me!  Since I only brew about 2 gallons at a time (my
> biggest pot is only 3 gallons or so), and since I use 1-gallon empty
> glass wine jugs as my fermenters, I only put about 1 tsp of yeast
> into each jug.  Maybe 1/2 tsp... I have to double-check my notes. It
> helps to keep the reaction manageable.  Before, yeah, I had serious
> overflow problems too.  I also try to only fill the fermenters about
> 2/3 full, max, just in case.
>

A homebrewer's nightmare:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgfubawsrcM

>>>
>>>> The trub doesn't go to waste either, whether the yeast was
>>>> harvested from it or not. We turn that into really tasty "trub
>>>> bread". Always baked over charcoal or wood fire in the Weber
>>>> kettle. We haven't bought bread since summer last year.
>>>
>>>
>>> Nice!  Trub from post-boil, or trub from fermenting?
>>>
>>
>> It's the trub from fermenting. You can't use the hop residue and
>> other gunk at the bottom of the boil pot. Also, that contains the
>> carrageenan which would probably cause a really funky taste.
>
>
> Ah!  Ok, thanks for clarifying.  Although, the hops would make a
> fairly interesting bread, huh... hmm...
>

The bread certainly has a hoppy taste and I like that. It's not 
something you'd use to for honey or marmelade. It tastes best with cold 
cuts. Most deliciously with thin slices of tri-tip from the barbie.

>
>> I bought and modded the wine fridge so I'd be able to brew year
>> round and (almost) all styles. I added a regulated heat mode and a
>> McGyver style heater for that, "electronics guys style", can be
>> seen in the 2nd link:
>>
>> http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/brew/chamber1.JPG
>> http://www.analogconsultants.com/ng/brew/chamber2.JPG
>>
>> This way temps do not drop too low during winter months in the
>> basement room. Having to run the pellet stove down there just to
>> keep the beer happy gets expensive.
>>
>> If I'd ever do a bock I can use an old Bosch fridge in the
>> basement which can hold one fermenter and run that much colder.
>
>
> Very nice!  I would just do it when the weather is being cooperative,
> but that's just me.
>

Right now the Pale Ale and IPA are a bit recalcitrant. The IPA is at 29h 
fermentation lag and hasn't started a bit. The Pale Ale is at 24h and 
shows very tepid yeast activity. Got to shake the buckets some more 
later tonight to kick things into gear. With living organisms such as 
yeast one never knows.

-- 
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

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#460728

On Wednesday, May 17, 2017 at 4:21:17 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
> On 2017-05-17 16:05, mrdarrett@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Wednesday, May 17, 2017 at 3:42:01 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
> >
> > ...
> >
> >>>> Grains (or malt extract) are the main cost factors in beer. I
> >>>> get my stuff in Minnisohtah:
> >>>>
> >>>> https://www.midwestsupplies.com/
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Nice!  Buying by the sack saves money also.
> >>>
> >>
> >> I am still a lowly extract brewer though. However, I am keeping my
> >> eyes peeled for two-roller grain crusher. Some day I want to do
> >> BIAB but must figure out a way to use two bags instead of one, on
> >> account of a bad lower back. I can't lift heavy stuff while bent
> >> over. Or rather, I can but then I will pay for that.
> >>
> >> Grain doesn't save a lot of money or often none at all but allows
> >> more mods. I usually brew two batches in a day. Having only two 1kW
> >> electric burners under a tamale steamer pot it takes time to heat.
> >> That means that time-wise I might be able to do one all-grain and
> >> one extract session if we have dinner a little later.
> >
> >
> > Huh.  I went with grains precisely because they're cheaper.
> 
> 
> Not really. There is no way I can make five gallons of IPA, Stout, Pale 
> Ale, Cream Ale or American Wheat for $20 using grain. Mostly because 
> hops and all the other stuff adds cost.


Ah!  Do you use dried malt extract or syrups?  And your malt is only $20 for 5 gallons?

I'll consider DME if the economics shake out.  Huh.  Thanks.

This is a recipe for that RIS I mentioned.
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=238807

A 50 pound sack goes for about $45 at Brewmeister, so rounding that off to $1/lb... that's $17 for the base malt...
4 pounds of specialty malt at $2/lb is $8...
Say $5 for the hops and yeast (can use for maybe 2 more batches, so $15 for all hops and yeast, spread out over 3 batches)

So say $30 for 5 gallons :) 


 
> https://www.midwestsupplies.com/nsearch/?q=simply+beer
> 
> I modify those though.
> 
> 
> >                                                          ... Of
> > course that also assumes my time is worth $0/hr.  I still consider
> > myself a student at this, so it's worth it.
> >
> 
> Yes, it's a hobby and cost isn't why I do this. The main reason is that 
> every bottle tastes like a growler fresh off the tap. You can't get that 
> great taste with store bought beer.


That's so true!



> > I just put the grains in the blender in small batches.  I used to do
> > the bag thing, then decided, hey, I'm going to let it settle out
> > anyway, so why not just siphon off the clear liquid.  It takes
> > longer, but that's how I do it without a lauter tun.  Since it's
> > settling, it's ok if the particles are somewhat finer than with a
> > crusher.
> 
> 
> With the bag one of the advantages is you can mill really fine. There 
> isn't the risk of s stuck sparge.


Yup.


> >  ... I should be able to extract more of the sugars, too.  So,
> > in a nutshell, mix the powdered grains with water, bring to 150
> > degrees F while mixing, scoop into empty 1-gallon wine jugs, allow to
> > settle, siphon off the clear liquid for the later boil, return the
> > solids to the pot, add more water, and repeat until I have enough
> > liquid for the boil.
> >
> >
> >> Be careful with BE-256. That is what I used on the Belgian Tripel
> >> and it went "nuclear". After the first mess (lid of the fermenter
> >> came off) I placed a blow-off hose and bucket. However, the
> >> diameter of the racking hose was still not large enough. Lots of
> >> evil hissing and roaring plus a minor mess, the lid came partially
> >> off. Phsssss ... rot-tot-tot ... *BURP* .. phseeeee ... POOF ..
> >> gurgle. So now I mounted a 1/2" Bulkhead connector in the fermenter
> >> lid and keep a strudy washing machine hose at hand for next time.
> >
> >
> > That reminds me!  Since I only brew about 2 gallons at a time (my
> > biggest pot is only 3 gallons or so), and since I use 1-gallon empty
> > glass wine jugs as my fermenters, I only put about 1 tsp of yeast
> > into each jug.  Maybe 1/2 tsp... I have to double-check my notes. It
> > helps to keep the reaction manageable.  Before, yeah, I had serious
> > overflow problems too.  I also try to only fill the fermenters about
> > 2/3 full, max, just in case.
> >
> 
> A homebrewer's nightmare:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgfubawsrcM


Oh man.
The video after it also is nuts; he has the fermenter filled way too full.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JNmhYs4NPY

1/2 tsp of yeast per gallon... that should be enough :o



> Right now the Pale Ale and IPA are a bit recalcitrant. The IPA is at 29h 
> fermentation lag and hasn't started a bit. The Pale Ale is at 24h and 
> shows very tepid yeast activity. Got to shake the buckets some more 
> later tonight to kick things into gear. With living organisms such as 
> yeast one never knows.


Yeast need oxygen for the growth phase.  Did you aerate before pitching the yeast?  I aerate by hand-pouring two cups at a time with a sanitized measuring cup from my pot to the fermenter (but I only use 1-gallon jugs, so they're not so heavy).



> 
> -- 
> Regards, Joerg
> 
> http://www.analogconsultants.com/


Michael

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#460776

On 2017-05-17 16:50, mrdarrett@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 17, 2017 at 4:21:17 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
>> On 2017-05-17 16:05, mrdarrett@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, May 17, 2017 at 3:42:01 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
>>>
>>> ...
>>>
>>>>>> Grains (or malt extract) are the main cost factors in beer.
>>>>>> I get my stuff in Minnisohtah:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.midwestsupplies.com/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Nice!  Buying by the sack saves money also.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I am still a lowly extract brewer though. However, I am keeping
>>>> my eyes peeled for two-roller grain crusher. Some day I want to
>>>> do BIAB but must figure out a way to use two bags instead of
>>>> one, on account of a bad lower back. I can't lift heavy stuff
>>>> while bent over. Or rather, I can but then I will pay for
>>>> that.
>>>>
>>>> Grain doesn't save a lot of money or often none at all but
>>>> allows more mods. I usually brew two batches in a day. Having
>>>> only two 1kW electric burners under a tamale steamer pot it
>>>> takes time to heat. That means that time-wise I might be able
>>>> to do one all-grain and one extract session if we have dinner a
>>>> little later.
>>>
>>>
>>> Huh.  I went with grains precisely because they're cheaper.
>>
>>
>> Not really. There is no way I can make five gallons of IPA, Stout,
>> Pale Ale, Cream Ale or American Wheat for $20 using grain. Mostly
>> because hops and all the other stuff adds cost.
>
>
> Ah!  Do you use dried malt extract or syrups?  And your malt is only
> $20 for 5 gallons?
>

I use both LME and DME. For a 5-gallon batch the base beers such as a 
standard Pale Ale, IPA or Cream Ale cost me $20 including everything, 
malt, specialty grains (steeped in), hops, yeast and even the corn sugar 
for bottle carbonation. Plus shipping which adds $6-7 unless I can sneak 
in a free-ship deal.


> I'll consider DME if the economics shake out.  Huh.  Thanks.
>
> This is a recipe for that RIS I mentioned.
> http://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=238807
>

That is one big beer. My wife wouldn't like it but I sure would.


> A 50 pound sack goes for about $45 at Brewmeister, so rounding that
> off to $1/lb... that's $17 for the base malt... 4 pounds of specialty
> malt at $2/lb is $8... Say $5 for the hops and yeast (can use for
> maybe 2 more batches, so $15 for all hops and yeast, spread out over
> 3 batches)
>
> So say $30 for 5 gallons :)
>

That's ok. The Belgian Tripel costs me $50 even from Midwest but worth 
every drop.

[...]


>
>>> ... I should be able to extract more of the sugars, too.  So, in
>>> a nutshell, mix the powdered grains with water, bring to 150
>>> degrees F while mixing, scoop into empty 1-gallon wine jugs,
>>> allow to settle, siphon off the clear liquid for the later boil,
>>> return the solids to the pot, add more water, and repeat until I
>>> have enough liquid for the boil.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Be careful with BE-256. That is what I used on the Belgian
>>>> Tripel and it went "nuclear". After the first mess (lid of the
>>>> fermenter came off) I placed a blow-off hose and bucket.
>>>> However, the diameter of the racking hose was still not large
>>>> enough. Lots of evil hissing and roaring plus a minor mess, the
>>>> lid came partially off. Phsssss ... rot-tot-tot ... *BURP* ..
>>>> phseeeee ... POOF .. gurgle. So now I mounted a 1/2" Bulkhead
>>>> connector in the fermenter lid and keep a strudy washing
>>>> machine hose at hand for next time.
>>>
>>>
>>> That reminds me!  Since I only brew about 2 gallons at a time
>>> (my biggest pot is only 3 gallons or so), and since I use
>>> 1-gallon empty glass wine jugs as my fermenters, I only put about
>>> 1 tsp of yeast into each jug.  Maybe 1/2 tsp... I have to
>>> double-check my notes. It helps to keep the reaction manageable.
>>> Before, yeah, I had serious overflow problems too.  I also try to
>>> only fill the fermenters about 2/3 full, max, just in case.
>>>
>>
>> A homebrewer's nightmare:
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgfubawsrcM
>
>
> Oh man. The video after it also is nuts; he has the fermenter filled
> way too full. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JNmhYs4NPY
>

I use carboys for secondary (the blue water cooler bottles). They only 
offer 5-gal total and are really hard to clean. My primaries are 6-1/2 
gallon food grade pails. Even there I now have spots where the beer kind 
of "etched itself in". PBW can't get it out anymore so there may come a 
day where I need new pails.


> 1/2 tsp of yeast per gallon... that should be enough :o
>

So far I haven't quite understood the whole over/underpitched science. I 
mean, yeast makes lots of offspring so even if you have too little in 
there it should produced more and more cells.

>
>> Right now the Pale Ale and IPA are a bit recalcitrant. The IPA is
>> at 29h fermentation lag and hasn't started a bit. The Pale Ale is
>> at 24h and shows very tepid yeast activity. Got to shake the
>> buckets some more later tonight to kick things into gear. With
>> living organisms such as yeast one never knows.
>
>
> Yeast need oxygen for the growth phase.  Did you aerate before
> pitching the yeast?  I aerate by hand-pouring two cups at a time with
> a sanitized measuring cup from my pot to the fermenter (but I only
> use 1-gallon jugs, so they're not so heavy).
>

After cooling I rack the wort from the brew kettle into the fermenter 
buckets. I use a 3/4" PVC tee from irrigation pipe where I sawed a slot 
into the T-part. A plastic clamp slid in with the hose holds the hose 
upwards at an angle of 20-30 degrees and this causes the wort to splash 
in. Occasionally I place the tee at another area on the rim of the 
bucket so it aerates other sections. At the end I usually have several 
inches of foam on top of the wort in the fermenter. So much that when I 
use dry yeast I have to push the foam around with a sanitized strainer 
ladle to be able to sprinkle the yeast onto the form surface and not 
have it riding on the foam.

The IPA has now kicked into gear with healthy air lock activity but the 
Pale Ale is still tepid (but li'l bubbles are coming). I figure I can 
always open a pouch of US-05 and pitch it in later but so far I didn't 
have to do that with any beer.

-- 
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#460784

On Thursday, May 18, 2017 at 7:14:29 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
> On 2017-05-17 16:50, mrdarrett@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Wednesday, May 17, 2017 at 4:21:17 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
> >> On 2017-05-17 16:05, mrdarrett@gmail.com wrote:
> >>> On Wednesday, May 17, 2017 at 3:42:01 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
> >>>
> >>> ...
> >>>
> >>>>>> Grains (or malt extract) are the main cost factors in beer.
> >>>>>> I get my stuff in Minnisohtah:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> https://www.midwestsupplies.com/
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Nice!  Buying by the sack saves money also.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I am still a lowly extract brewer though. However, I am keeping
> >>>> my eyes peeled for two-roller grain crusher. Some day I want to
> >>>> do BIAB but must figure out a way to use two bags instead of
> >>>> one, on account of a bad lower back. I can't lift heavy stuff
> >>>> while bent over. Or rather, I can but then I will pay for
> >>>> that.
> >>>>
> >>>> Grain doesn't save a lot of money or often none at all but
> >>>> allows more mods. I usually brew two batches in a day. Having
> >>>> only two 1kW electric burners under a tamale steamer pot it
> >>>> takes time to heat. That means that time-wise I might be able
> >>>> to do one all-grain and one extract session if we have dinner a
> >>>> little later.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Huh.  I went with grains precisely because they're cheaper.
> >>
> >>
> >> Not really. There is no way I can make five gallons of IPA, Stout,
> >> Pale Ale, Cream Ale or American Wheat for $20 using grain. Mostly
> >> because hops and all the other stuff adds cost.
> >
> >
> > Ah!  Do you use dried malt extract or syrups?  And your malt is only
> > $20 for 5 gallons?
> >
> 
> I use both LME and DME. For a 5-gallon batch the base beers such as a 
> standard Pale Ale, IPA or Cream Ale cost me $20 including everything, 
> malt, specialty grains (steeped in), hops, yeast and even the corn sugar 
> for bottle carbonation. Plus shipping which adds $6-7 unless I can sneak 
> in a free-ship deal.


I am impressed.  I might just try LME and DME next time; the settling times for my all-grain methods take a few hours.

I took a peek at one of my favorite recipes (a Zywiec Polish beer clone) and it would cost me $18 in LME, vs $9 for all-grain.  All the rest of the flavor malts, yeast, etc. are the same (except for the hops; I think the recipe said to use slightly less hops if using all-grain).  That's for 5 gallons though, and I usually only make 2 gallons at a time due to not having gigantic pots and carboys.  So I'm looking at saving only $4 or so, dividing everything by two.



> > I'll consider DME if the economics shake out.  Huh.  Thanks.
> >
> > This is a recipe for that RIS I mentioned.
> > http://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=238807
> >
> 
> That is one big beer. My wife wouldn't like it but I sure would.


When I make big beers, I make a second light beer with the leftover flavor and sugars in the grains :)



> > A 50 pound sack goes for about $45 at Brewmeister, so rounding that
> > off to $1/lb... that's $17 for the base malt... 4 pounds of specialty
> > malt at $2/lb is $8... Say $5 for the hops and yeast (can use for
> > maybe 2 more batches, so $15 for all hops and yeast, spread out over
> > 3 batches)
> >
> > So say $30 for 5 gallons :)
> >
> 
> That's ok. The Belgian Tripel costs me $50 even from Midwest but worth 
> every drop.
> 


What's the recipe?  I'm curious now.  Is it available online?  :)


> I use carboys for secondary (the blue water cooler bottles). They only 
> offer 5-gal total and are really hard to clean. My primaries are 6-1/2 
> gallon food grade pails. Even there I now have spots where the beer kind 
> of "etched itself in". PBW can't get it out anymore so there may come a 
> day where I need new pails.


Bottle brush?  Sometimes just filling with water and letting it sit for a few days helps too.  


> > 1/2 tsp of yeast per gallon... that should be enough :o
> >
> 
> So far I haven't quite understood the whole over/underpitched science. I 
> mean, yeast makes lots of offspring so even if you have too little in 
> there it should produced more and more cells.


The idea is to give the yeast a head-start vs. the natural bacteria and wild yeast.  Of course there is such a thing as too much... *boom*

But actually I'm interested in one wild yeast: Saccharomyces diastaticus.  It gives a bad flavor to the beer but is interesting for fuel alcohol production because it has the amylase enzymes built-in (the same enzymes which chop up the barley starches into sugars when malting at 150 F).


> >> Right now the Pale Ale and IPA are a bit recalcitrant. The IPA is
> >> at 29h fermentation lag and hasn't started a bit. The Pale Ale is
> >> at 24h and shows very tepid yeast activity. Got to shake the
> >> buckets some more later tonight to kick things into gear. With
> >> living organisms such as yeast one never knows.
> >
> >
> > Yeast need oxygen for the growth phase.  Did you aerate before
> > pitching the yeast?  I aerate by hand-pouring two cups at a time with
> > a sanitized measuring cup from my pot to the fermenter (but I only
> > use 1-gallon jugs, so they're not so heavy).
> >
> 
> After cooling I rack the wort from the brew kettle into the fermenter 
> buckets. I use a 3/4" PVC tee from irrigation pipe where I sawed a slot 
> into the T-part. A plastic clamp slid in with the hose holds the hose 
> upwards at an angle of 20-30 degrees and this causes the wort to splash 
> in. Occasionally I place the tee at another area on the rim of the 
> bucket so it aerates other sections. At the end I usually have several 
> inches of foam on top of the wort in the fermenter. So much that when I 
> use dry yeast I have to push the foam around with a sanitized strainer 
> ladle to be able to sprinkle the yeast onto the form surface and not 
> have it riding on the foam.
> 
> The IPA has now kicked into gear with healthy air lock activity but the 
> Pale Ale is still tepid (but li'l bubbles are coming). I figure I can 
> always open a pouch of US-05 and pitch it in later but so far I didn't 
> have to do that with any beer.


Safale US-05 always works; that's been my experience :) 


> 
> -- 
> Regards, Joerg
> 
> http://www.analogconsultants.com/


Michael

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