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Groups > rec.arts.sf.written > #488855 > unrolled thread

[tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print?

Started byjdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll)
First post2018-03-22 14:30 +0000
Last post2018-03-23 16:55 +0000
Articles 20 on this page of 84 — 26 participants

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Contents

  [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) - 2018-03-22 14:30 +0000
    Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? D B Davis <g@crcomp.net> - 2018-03-22 16:20 +0000
    Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> - 2018-03-22 10:16 -0700
      Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? Peter Trei <petertrei@gmail.com> - 2018-03-22 10:45 -0700
        Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> - 2018-03-23 10:33 -0700
          Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-03-23 20:48 -0400
            Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2018-03-23 21:08 -0700
              Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-03-24 08:53 -0400
                Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> - 2018-03-24 09:48 -0700
                  Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-03-24 13:11 -0400
              Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2018-03-25 10:45 -0500
                Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-03-25 12:14 -0400
                  Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-03-25 16:49 +0000
                    Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-03-25 13:31 -0400
                      Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? Juho Julkunen <giaotanj@hotmail.com> - 2018-03-26 04:28 +0300
                        Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-03-25 22:37 -0400
                          Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? Juho Julkunen <giaotanj@hotmail.com> - 2018-03-26 05:56 +0300
                          Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-03-25 21:40 -0600
                            Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2018-03-26 04:11 +0000
                          Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-03-26 03:29 +0000
                            Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2018-03-26 04:03 +0000
                          Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2018-03-25 21:34 -0700
                    Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2018-03-25 13:15 -0600
                      Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? Anthony Frost <Vulch@vulch.org> - 2018-03-26 10:45 +0000
                        Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? Peter Trei <petertrei@gmail.com> - 2018-03-26 06:05 -0700
                          Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? Jack Bohn <jack.bohn64@gmail.com> - 2018-03-26 09:17 -0700
                  Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? "Michael R N Dolbear" <me@privacy.net> - 2018-03-26 01:16 +0100
                    Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-03-25 22:38 -0400
                      Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? Cryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com> - 2018-03-26 19:35 -0500
                        Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-03-26 22:52 -0400
                          Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2018-03-26 19:58 -0700
                            Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-03-26 23:20 -0400
                            Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? Peter Trei <petertrei@gmail.com> - 2018-03-27 06:08 -0700
      Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-03-22 21:41 +0000
        Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> - 2018-03-23 10:31 -0700
          Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-03-23 18:28 +0000
            Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? Chris Buckley <alan@sabir.com> - 2018-03-25 17:46 +0000
          Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> - 2018-03-24 10:09 -0700
            Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) - 2018-03-24 17:34 +0000
    Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-03-22 11:24 -0600
      Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2018-03-22 17:47 +0000
        Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? Peter Trei <petertrei@gmail.com> - 2018-03-22 11:07 -0700
        Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? Steve Coltrin <spcoltri@omcl.org> - 2018-03-22 17:57 -0600
    Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? Ahasuerus <ahasuerus@email.com> - 2018-03-22 12:42 -0700
      Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2018-03-22 14:10 -0700
        Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? Ahasuerus <ahasuerus@email.com> - 2018-03-22 17:38 -0700
    Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> - 2018-03-22 16:57 -0500
      Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) - 2018-03-23 13:36 +0000
        Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? Ahasuerus <ahasuerus@email.com> - 2018-03-23 06:57 -0700
          Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? Dan ONeill <garudaco@gmail.com> - 2018-03-23 07:50 -0700
        Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-03-23 14:23 +0000
          Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) - 2018-03-23 14:57 +0000
            Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-03-23 18:30 +0000
            Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? Moriarty <blues95@ivillage.com> - 2018-03-25 14:57 -0700
              Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-03-25 22:46 +0000
                Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? Moriarty <blues95@ivillage.com> - 2018-03-25 16:12 -0700
                  Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-03-26 01:22 +0000
                    Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? Moriarty <blues95@ivillage.com> - 2018-03-25 20:47 -0700
                      Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-03-26 04:00 +0000
                        Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2018-03-26 04:21 +0000
                        Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? Lawrence Watt-Evans <misenchantedpress@gmail.com> - 2018-03-26 04:23 -0400
                          Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-03-26 14:18 +0000
                            Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? Peter Trei <petertrei@gmail.com> - 2018-03-26 07:49 -0700
                              Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? Lawrence Watt-Evans <misenchantedpress@gmail.com> - 2018-03-26 11:23 -0400
                                Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2018-03-26 15:34 +0000
                                  Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-03-26 10:05 -0600
                                  Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? Lawrence Watt-Evans <misenchantedpress@gmail.com> - 2018-03-26 16:33 -0400
                                    Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? David Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2018-03-26 16:24 -0600
                                      Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? Ahasuerus <ahasuerus@email.com> - 2018-03-26 15:40 -0700
                                    Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2018-03-26 22:55 -0400
                          Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? Ahasuerus <ahasuerus@email.com> - 2018-03-26 09:39 -0700
                            Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? Moriarty <blues95@ivillage.com> - 2018-03-26 14:16 -0700
                              Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? Lawrence Watt-Evans <misenchantedpress@gmail.com> - 2018-03-26 17:24 -0400
                                Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? Ahasuerus <ahasuerus@email.com> - 2018-03-26 14:44 -0700
                              Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? Ahasuerus <ahasuerus@email.com> - 2018-03-26 14:31 -0700
                                Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2018-03-26 14:36 -0700
                                  Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2018-03-26 22:00 +0000
                                Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2018-03-26 15:26 -0700
                                  Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> - 2018-03-26 15:37 -0700
                                    Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2018-03-29 11:33 -0700
                                      Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2018-04-02 05:35 -0500
                        Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? Steve Coltrin <spcoltri@omcl.org> - 2018-03-26 11:26 -0600
    Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? "Michael F. Stemper" <michael.stemper@gmail.com> - 2018-03-23 11:39 -0500
      Re: [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print? jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) - 2018-03-23 16:55 +0000

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#488855 — [tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print?

Fromjdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll)
Date2018-03-22 14:30 +0000
Subject[tor dot com] Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print?
Message-ID<p90elu$ni2$1@reader2.panix.com>
Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print?

https://www.tor.com/2018/03/22/why-the-hell-are-these-books-out-of-print/
-- 
My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

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#488859

FromD B Davis <g@crcomp.net>
Date2018-03-22 16:20 +0000
Message-ID<20180322c@crcomp.net>
In reply to#488855
James Nicoll <jdnicoll@panix.com> wrote:
>
> Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print?
>
> https://www.tor.com/2018/03/22/why-the-hell-are-these-books-out-of-print/

_Psychohistorical Crisis_ (Kingsbury) fixes up "Historical Crisis,"
which appears in the _Far Futures_ (Benford, 1995) anthology. You know
me. "Less is more and the shorter the better." The original Asimov and
the original Kingsbury work better for me than their later fix ups. :)

Thank you,

--
Don

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#488861

FromRobert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com>
Date2018-03-22 10:16 -0700
Message-ID<robertaw-6EB2FE.10164722032018@news.individual.net>
In reply to#488855
In article <p90elu$ni2$1@reader2.panix.com>,
 jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote:

> Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print?
> 
> https://www.tor.com/2018/03/22/why-the-hell-are-these-books-out-of-print/

It is all part of the erasure of the past. You can't publish new books 
if the old books are still around using press time and shelf space.

BTW, that is why my answer to people who ask why I have thousands of 
books in my collection is "because if I ever want to reread any, I can - 
they would be impossible to find otherwise." Perhaps I should reread 
Caroline Stevermere's _The Serpent's Egg_ to see if it is a forgotten 
treasure.

-- 
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
‹-----------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward robertaw@drizzle.com

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#488863

FromPeter Trei <petertrei@gmail.com>
Date2018-03-22 10:45 -0700
Message-ID<e9647a1a-4e7e-4873-919f-e0d562d55ff3@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#488861
On Thursday, March 22, 2018 at 1:16:53 PM UTC-4, Robert Woodward wrote:
> In article <p90elu$ni2$1@reader2.panix.com>,
>  jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote:
> 
> > Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print?
> > 
> > https://www.tor.com/2018/03/22/why-the-hell-are-these-books-out-of-print/
> 
> It is all part of the erasure of the past. You can't publish new books 
> if the old books are still around using press time and shelf space.

A one-time (albeit not quite trivial) digitizing job can fix that.

pt

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#488931

FromRobert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com>
Date2018-03-23 10:33 -0700
Message-ID<robertaw-993457.10335023032018@news.individual.net>
In reply to#488863
In article <e9647a1a-4e7e-4873-919f-e0d562d55ff3@googlegroups.com>,
 Peter Trei <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Thursday, March 22, 2018 at 1:16:53 PM UTC-4, Robert Woodward wrote:
> > In article <p90elu$ni2$1@reader2.panix.com>,
> >  jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote:
> > 
> > > Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print?
> > > 
> > > https://www.tor.com/2018/03/22/why-the-hell-are-these-books-out-of-print/
> > 
> > It is all part of the erasure of the past. You can't publish new books 
> > if the old books are still around using press time and shelf space.
> 
> A one-time (albeit not quite trivial) digitizing job can fix that.
> 

Scans of sufficient resolution will use up storage space. Correcting OCR 
will use up time more usefully spent reading more books (probably more 
than 1 book per book digitized).

-- 
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
—-----------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward robertaw@drizzle.com

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#488954

FromJ. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com>
Date2018-03-23 20:48 -0400
Message-ID<su7bbd9qp952hv1i0josg4o3km52aesh91@4ax.com>
In reply to#488931
On Fri, 23 Mar 2018 10:33:50 -0700, Robert Woodward
<robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:

>In article <e9647a1a-4e7e-4873-919f-e0d562d55ff3@googlegroups.com>,
> Peter Trei <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Thursday, March 22, 2018 at 1:16:53 PM UTC-4, Robert Woodward wrote:
>> > In article <p90elu$ni2$1@reader2.panix.com>,
>> >  jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote:
>> > 
>> > > Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print?
>> > > 
>> > > https://www.tor.com/2018/03/22/why-the-hell-are-these-books-out-of-print/
>> > 
>> > It is all part of the erasure of the past. You can't publish new books 
>> > if the old books are still around using press time and shelf space.
>> 
>> A one-time (albeit not quite trivial) digitizing job can fix that.
>> 
>
>Scans of sufficient resolution will use up storage space. 

It's 2018.  Terabyte drives are dropping out of the bottom of the
market.

>Correcting OCR 
>will use up time more usefully spent reading more books (probably more 
>than 1 book per book digitized).

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#488968

FromRobert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com>
Date2018-03-23 21:08 -0700
Message-ID<547c8e24-d31d-430f-b2fb-37f841ea5083@googlegroups.com>
In reply to#488954
On Saturday, 24 March 2018 00:48:57 UTC, J. Clarke  wrote:
> On Fri, 23 Mar 2018 10:33:50 -0700, Robert Woodward
> <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:
> 
> >In article <e9647a1a-4e7e-4873-919f-e0d562d55ff3@googlegroups.com>,
> > Peter Trei <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Thursday, March 22, 2018 at 1:16:53 PM UTC-4, Robert Woodward wrote:
> >> > In article <p90elu$ni2$1@reader2.panix.com>,
> >> >  jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote:
> >> > 
> >> > > Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print?
> >> > > 
> >> > > https://www.tor.com/2018/03/22/why-the-hell-are-these-books-out-of-print/
> >> > 
> >> > It is all part of the erasure of the past. You can't publish new books 
> >> > if the old books are still around using press time and shelf space.
> >> 
> >> A one-time (albeit not quite trivial) digitizing job can fix that.
> >> 
> >
> >Scans of sufficient resolution will use up storage space. 
> 
> It's 2018.  Terabyte drives are dropping out of the bottom of the
> market.

Not for tablet devices - not literally, not quite yet, 
although a device built to play video, for instance, should 
accommodate a substantial library of scanned books in its own
storage, if that's how it has to be.  Devices are sufficiently
connected now that a book could be streamed, although I don't
know if this happens outside audiobooks.  And of course it would 
be annoying to lose connection and be unable to get the next page.

> >Correcting OCR 
> >will use up time more usefully spent reading more books (probably more 
> >than 1 book per book digitized).

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#488982

FromJ. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com>
Date2018-03-24 08:53 -0400
Message-ID<5ficbdlbof01prm32coms84dc4sa5fhdkb@4ax.com>
In reply to#488968
On Fri, 23 Mar 2018 21:08:00 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
<rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:

>On Saturday, 24 March 2018 00:48:57 UTC, J. Clarke  wrote:
>> On Fri, 23 Mar 2018 10:33:50 -0700, Robert Woodward
>> <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:
>> 
>> >In article <e9647a1a-4e7e-4873-919f-e0d562d55ff3@googlegroups.com>,
>> > Peter Trei <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Thursday, March 22, 2018 at 1:16:53 PM UTC-4, Robert Woodward wrote:
>> >> > In article <p90elu$ni2$1@reader2.panix.com>,
>> >> >  jdnicoll@panix.com (James Nicoll) wrote:
>> >> > 
>> >> > > Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print?
>> >> > > 
>> >> > > https://www.tor.com/2018/03/22/why-the-hell-are-these-books-out-of-print/
>> >> > 
>> >> > It is all part of the erasure of the past. You can't publish new books 
>> >> > if the old books are still around using press time and shelf space.
>> >> 
>> >> A one-time (albeit not quite trivial) digitizing job can fix that.
>> >> 
>> >
>> >Scans of sufficient resolution will use up storage space. 
>> 
>> It's 2018.  Terabyte drives are dropping out of the bottom of the
>> market.
>
>Not for tablet devices - not literally, not quite yet, 
>although a device built to play video, for instance, should 
>accommodate a substantial library of scanned books in its own
>storage, if that's how it has to be.  Devices are sufficiently
>connected now that a book could be streamed, although I don't
>know if this happens outside audiobooks.  And of course it would 
>be annoying to lose connection and be unable to get the next page.

Why would you be using a tablet device to perform scans for OCR
purposes?

>> >Correcting OCR 
>> >will use up time more usefully spent reading more books (probably more 
>> >than 1 book per book digitized).

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#488983

FromRobert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com>
Date2018-03-24 09:48 -0700
Message-ID<robertaw-DE06A3.09483724032018@news.individual.net>
In reply to#488982
In article <5ficbdlbof01prm32coms84dc4sa5fhdkb@4ax.com>,
 J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Fri, 23 Mar 2018 21:08:00 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
> <rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:
> 
> >On Saturday, 24 March 2018 00:48:57 UTC, J. Clarke  wrote:
> >> On Fri, 23 Mar 2018 10:33:50 -0700, Robert Woodward
<SNIP>
> >> >Scans of sufficient resolution will use up storage space. 
> >> 
> >> It's 2018.  Terabyte drives are dropping out of the bottom of the
> >> market.
> >
> >Not for tablet devices - not literally, not quite yet, 
> >although a device built to play video, for instance, should 
> >accommodate a substantial library of scanned books in its own
> >storage, if that's how it has to be.  Devices are sufficiently
> >connected now that a book could be streamed, although I don't
> >know if this happens outside audiobooks.  And of course it would 
> >be annoying to lose connection and be unable to get the next page.
> 
> Why would you be using a tablet device to perform scans for OCR
> purposes?
> 

To READ the scanned images. Which means that either the tablet has 
enough storage to hold all scanned books or it has to depend on remote 
storage (which isn't very helpful in areas where there is no relatively 
cheap broadband access).

-- 
"We have advanced to new and surprising levels of bafflement."
Imperial Auditor Miles Vorkosigan describes progress in _Komarr_.
-------------------------------------------------------
Robert Woodward robertaw@drizzle.com

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#488985

FromJ. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com>
Date2018-03-24 13:11 -0400
Message-ID<2k1dbdhe9fn3g5m6r3lgqra6pa3hl4shnk@4ax.com>
In reply to#488983
On Sat, 24 Mar 2018 09:48:37 -0700, Robert Woodward
<robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:

>In article <5ficbdlbof01prm32coms84dc4sa5fhdkb@4ax.com>,
> J. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 23 Mar 2018 21:08:00 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie
>> <rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:
>> 
>> >On Saturday, 24 March 2018 00:48:57 UTC, J. Clarke  wrote:
>> >> On Fri, 23 Mar 2018 10:33:50 -0700, Robert Woodward
><SNIP>
>> >> >Scans of sufficient resolution will use up storage space. 
>> >> 
>> >> It's 2018.  Terabyte drives are dropping out of the bottom of the
>> >> market.
>> >
>> >Not for tablet devices - not literally, not quite yet, 
>> >although a device built to play video, for instance, should 
>> >accommodate a substantial library of scanned books in its own
>> >storage, if that's how it has to be.  Devices are sufficiently
>> >connected now that a book could be streamed, although I don't
>> >know if this happens outside audiobooks.  And of course it would 
>> >be annoying to lose connection and be unable to get the next page.
>> 
>> Why would you be using a tablet device to perform scans for OCR
>> purposes?
>> 
>
>To READ the scanned images. Which means that either the tablet has 
>enough storage to hold all scanned books or it has to depend on remote 
>storage (which isn't very helpful in areas where there is no relatively 
>cheap broadband access).

Why would you be reading scanned images?

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#489021

FromCryptoengineer <treifamily@gmail.com>
Date2018-03-25 10:45 -0500
Message-ID<XnsA8AFE7910386Cmelchizedek@216.166.97.131>
In reply to#488968
Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote in
news:547c8e24-d31d-430f-b2fb-37f841ea5083@googlegroups.com: 

> On Saturday, 24 March 2018 00:48:57 UTC, J. Clarke  wrote:
>> On Fri, 23 Mar 2018 10:33:50 -0700, Robert Woodward
>> <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:
>> 
>> >In article <e9647a1a-4e7e-4873-919f-e0d562d55ff3@googlegroups.com>,
>> > Peter Trei <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Thursday, March 22, 2018 at 1:16:53 PM UTC-4, Robert Woodward
>> >> wrote: 
>> >> > In article <p90elu$ni2$1@reader2.panix.com>, jdnicoll@panix.com
>> >> > (James Nicoll) wrote: 
>> >> > 
>> >> > > Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print?
>> >> > > 
>> >> > > https://www.tor.com/2018/03/22/why-the-hell-are-these-books-out
>> >> > > -of-print/ 
>> >> > 
>> >> > It is all part of the erasure of the past. You can't publish new
>> >> > books  if the old books are still around using press time and
>> >> > shelf space. 
>> >> 
>> >> A one-time (albeit not quite trivial) digitizing job can fix that.
>> >> 
>> >
>> >Scans of sufficient resolution will use up storage space. 
>> 
>> It's 2018.  Terabyte drives are dropping out of the bottom of the
>> market. 
> 
> Not for tablet devices - not literally, not quite yet, 
> although a device built to play video, for instance, should 
> accommodate a substantial library of scanned books in its own
> storage, if that's how it has to be.  Devices are sufficiently
> connected now that a book could be streamed, although I don't
> know if this happens outside audiobooks.  And of course it would 
> be annoying to lose connection and be unable to get the next page.
> 
>> >Correcting OCR 
>> >will use up time more usefully spent reading more books (probably
>> >more than 1 book per book digitized). 

When I suggested digitization, I was addressing the storage problem
that made books go out of print. I was envisaging publishers/authors
having the book digitized, OCR'd, and corrected once, and then making
digital copies available. I wasn't suggesting individual owners scan
and OCR their own copies.

pt

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#489024

FromJ. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com>
Date2018-03-25 12:14 -0400
Message-ID<iiifbdtvcaq2flt9dhlpmdikl49vs226iv@4ax.com>
In reply to#489021
On Sun, 25 Mar 2018 10:45:57 -0500, Cryptoengineer
<treifamily@gmail.com> wrote:

>Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote in
>news:547c8e24-d31d-430f-b2fb-37f841ea5083@googlegroups.com: 
>
>> On Saturday, 24 March 2018 00:48:57 UTC, J. Clarke  wrote:
>>> On Fri, 23 Mar 2018 10:33:50 -0700, Robert Woodward
>>> <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> >In article <e9647a1a-4e7e-4873-919f-e0d562d55ff3@googlegroups.com>,
>>> > Peter Trei <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> On Thursday, March 22, 2018 at 1:16:53 PM UTC-4, Robert Woodward
>>> >> wrote: 
>>> >> > In article <p90elu$ni2$1@reader2.panix.com>, jdnicoll@panix.com
>>> >> > (James Nicoll) wrote: 
>>> >> > 
>>> >> > > Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print?
>>> >> > > 
>>> >> > > https://www.tor.com/2018/03/22/why-the-hell-are-these-books-out
>>> >> > > -of-print/ 
>>> >> > 
>>> >> > It is all part of the erasure of the past. You can't publish new
>>> >> > books  if the old books are still around using press time and
>>> >> > shelf space. 
>>> >> 
>>> >> A one-time (albeit not quite trivial) digitizing job can fix that.
>>> >> 
>>> >
>>> >Scans of sufficient resolution will use up storage space. 
>>> 
>>> It's 2018.  Terabyte drives are dropping out of the bottom of the
>>> market. 
>> 
>> Not for tablet devices - not literally, not quite yet, 
>> although a device built to play video, for instance, should 
>> accommodate a substantial library of scanned books in its own
>> storage, if that's how it has to be.  Devices are sufficiently
>> connected now that a book could be streamed, although I don't
>> know if this happens outside audiobooks.  And of course it would 
>> be annoying to lose connection and be unable to get the next page.
>> 
>>> >Correcting OCR 
>>> >will use up time more usefully spent reading more books (probably
>>> >more than 1 book per book digitized). 
>
>When I suggested digitization, I was addressing the storage problem
>that made books go out of print. I was envisaging publishers/authors
>having the book digitized, OCR'd, and corrected once, and then making
>digital copies available. I wasn't suggesting individual owners scan
>and OCR their own copies.

There hasn't been any real excuse for a long time.  Phototypesetters
that required that the book be produced in electronic form started
coming into use in the '70s.  Any book published in the last 40 years
or so was in electronic form at some point--from there making an ebook
out of it should be fairly easy to automate.

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#489026

Fromdjheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
Date2018-03-25 16:49 +0000
Message-ID<p65o38.1v1y@kithrup.com>
In reply to#489024
In article <iiifbdtvcaq2flt9dhlpmdikl49vs226iv@4ax.com>,
J. Clarke  <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Sun, 25 Mar 2018 10:45:57 -0500, Cryptoengineer
><treifamily@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote in
>>news:547c8e24-d31d-430f-b2fb-37f841ea5083@googlegroups.com: 
>>
>>> On Saturday, 24 March 2018 00:48:57 UTC, J. Clarke  wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 23 Mar 2018 10:33:50 -0700, Robert Woodward
>>>> <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> >In article <e9647a1a-4e7e-4873-919f-e0d562d55ff3@googlegroups.com>,
>>>> > Peter Trei <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> On Thursday, March 22, 2018 at 1:16:53 PM UTC-4, Robert Woodward
>>>> >> wrote: 
>>>> >> > In article <p90elu$ni2$1@reader2.panix.com>, jdnicoll@panix.com
>>>> >> > (James Nicoll) wrote: 
>>>> >> > 
>>>> >> > > Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print?
>>>> >> > > 
>>>> >> > > https://www.tor.com/2018/03/22/why-the-hell-are-these-books-out
>>>> >> > > -of-print/ 
>>>> >> > 
>>>> >> > It is all part of the erasure of the past. You can't publish new
>>>> >> > books  if the old books are still around using press time and
>>>> >> > shelf space. 
>>>> >> 
>>>> >> A one-time (albeit not quite trivial) digitizing job can fix that.
>>>> >> 
>>>> >
>>>> >Scans of sufficient resolution will use up storage space. 
>>>> 
>>>> It's 2018.  Terabyte drives are dropping out of the bottom of the
>>>> market. 
>>> 
>>> Not for tablet devices - not literally, not quite yet, 
>>> although a device built to play video, for instance, should 
>>> accommodate a substantial library of scanned books in its own
>>> storage, if that's how it has to be.  Devices are sufficiently
>>> connected now that a book could be streamed, although I don't
>>> know if this happens outside audiobooks.  And of course it would 
>>> be annoying to lose connection and be unable to get the next page.
>>> 
>>>> >Correcting OCR 
>>>> >will use up time more usefully spent reading more books (probably
>>>> >more than 1 book per book digitized). 
>>
>>When I suggested digitization, I was addressing the storage problem
>>that made books go out of print. I was envisaging publishers/authors
>>having the book digitized, OCR'd, and corrected once, and then making
>>digital copies available. I wasn't suggesting individual owners scan
>>and OCR their own copies.
>
>There hasn't been any real excuse for a long time.  Phototypesetters
>that required that the book be produced in electronic form started
>coming into use in the '70s.  Any book published in the last 40 years
>or so was in electronic form at some point--from there making an ebook
>out of it should be fairly easy to automate.

Assuming the electronic form hasn't been erased.

(Cf. a lot of early episodes of Doctor Who, which were recorded
over because tapes cost money.)

-- 
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com

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#489030

FromJ. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com>
Date2018-03-25 13:31 -0400
Message-ID<16nfbdhe5m689lbtnbe2rr59ch5kosh1s1@4ax.com>
In reply to#489026
On Sun, 25 Mar 2018 16:49:56 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
Heydt) wrote:

>In article <iiifbdtvcaq2flt9dhlpmdikl49vs226iv@4ax.com>,
>J. Clarke  <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>>On Sun, 25 Mar 2018 10:45:57 -0500, Cryptoengineer
>><treifamily@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote in
>>>news:547c8e24-d31d-430f-b2fb-37f841ea5083@googlegroups.com: 
>>>
>>>> On Saturday, 24 March 2018 00:48:57 UTC, J. Clarke  wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 23 Mar 2018 10:33:50 -0700, Robert Woodward
>>>>> <robertaw@drizzle.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> >In article <e9647a1a-4e7e-4873-919f-e0d562d55ff3@googlegroups.com>,
>>>>> > Peter Trei <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>> >> On Thursday, March 22, 2018 at 1:16:53 PM UTC-4, Robert Woodward
>>>>> >> wrote: 
>>>>> >> > In article <p90elu$ni2$1@reader2.panix.com>, jdnicoll@panix.com
>>>>> >> > (James Nicoll) wrote: 
>>>>> >> > 
>>>>> >> > > Why the Hell Are These Books Out of Print?
>>>>> >> > > 
>>>>> >> > > https://www.tor.com/2018/03/22/why-the-hell-are-these-books-out
>>>>> >> > > -of-print/ 
>>>>> >> > 
>>>>> >> > It is all part of the erasure of the past. You can't publish new
>>>>> >> > books  if the old books are still around using press time and
>>>>> >> > shelf space. 
>>>>> >> 
>>>>> >> A one-time (albeit not quite trivial) digitizing job can fix that.
>>>>> >> 
>>>>> >
>>>>> >Scans of sufficient resolution will use up storage space. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> It's 2018.  Terabyte drives are dropping out of the bottom of the
>>>>> market. 
>>>> 
>>>> Not for tablet devices - not literally, not quite yet, 
>>>> although a device built to play video, for instance, should 
>>>> accommodate a substantial library of scanned books in its own
>>>> storage, if that's how it has to be.  Devices are sufficiently
>>>> connected now that a book could be streamed, although I don't
>>>> know if this happens outside audiobooks.  And of course it would 
>>>> be annoying to lose connection and be unable to get the next page.
>>>> 
>>>>> >Correcting OCR 
>>>>> >will use up time more usefully spent reading more books (probably
>>>>> >more than 1 book per book digitized). 
>>>
>>>When I suggested digitization, I was addressing the storage problem
>>>that made books go out of print. I was envisaging publishers/authors
>>>having the book digitized, OCR'd, and corrected once, and then making
>>>digital copies available. I wasn't suggesting individual owners scan
>>>and OCR their own copies.
>>
>>There hasn't been any real excuse for a long time.  Phototypesetters
>>that required that the book be produced in electronic form started
>>coming into use in the '70s.  Any book published in the last 40 years
>>or so was in electronic form at some point--from there making an ebook
>>out of it should be fairly easy to automate.
>
>Assuming the electronic form hasn't been erased.
>
>(Cf. a lot of early episodes of Doctor Who, which were recorded
>over because tapes cost money.)

The benefits of socialized television.

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#489051

FromJuho Julkunen <giaotanj@hotmail.com>
Date2018-03-26 04:28 +0300
Message-ID<MPG.3522791db4652a9b989ad7@news.kolumbus.fi>
In reply to#489030
In article <16nfbdhe5m689lbtnbe2rr59ch5kosh1s1@4ax.com>, jclarke.873638
@gmail.com says...
> 
> On Sun, 25 Mar 2018 16:49:56 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
> Heydt) wrote:
> >
> >(Cf. a lot of early episodes of Doctor Who, which were recorded
> >over because tapes cost money.)
> 
> The benefits of socialized television.

Tapes cost money for private broadcasters, too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiping

CBC apparently archived (almost) everything, though.

-- 
Juho Julkunen

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#489053

FromJ. Clarke <jclarke.873638@gmail.com>
Date2018-03-25 22:37 -0400
Message-ID<f6ngbdl2nikbe62noj4n4l3pohi167fa8g@4ax.com>
In reply to#489051
On Mon, 26 Mar 2018 04:28:50 +0300, Juho Julkunen
<giaotanj@hotmail.com> wrote:

>In article <16nfbdhe5m689lbtnbe2rr59ch5kosh1s1@4ax.com>, jclarke.873638
>@gmail.com says...
>> 
>> On Sun, 25 Mar 2018 16:49:56 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
>> Heydt) wrote:
>> >
>> >(Cf. a lot of early episodes of Doctor Who, which were recorded
>> >over because tapes cost money.)
>> 
>> The benefits of socialized television.
>
>Tapes cost money for private broadcasters, too.

But private broadcasters aren't subject to government austerity
programs.

>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiping
>
>CBC apparently archived (almost) everything, though.

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#489055

FromJuho Julkunen <giaotanj@hotmail.com>
Date2018-03-26 05:56 +0300
Message-ID<MPG.35228df45c41f98e989ad8@news.kolumbus.fi>
In reply to#489053
In article <f6ngbdl2nikbe62noj4n4l3pohi167fa8g@4ax.com>, jclarke.873638
@gmail.com says...
> 
> On Mon, 26 Mar 2018 04:28:50 +0300, Juho Julkunen
> <giaotanj@hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> >In article <16nfbdhe5m689lbtnbe2rr59ch5kosh1s1@4ax.com>, jclarke.873638
> >@gmail.com says...
> >> 
> >> On Sun, 25 Mar 2018 16:49:56 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
> >> Heydt) wrote:
> >> >
> >> >(Cf. a lot of early episodes of Doctor Who, which were recorded
> >> >over because tapes cost money.)
> >> 
> >> The benefits of socialized television.
> >
> >Tapes cost money for private broadcasters, too.
> 
> But private broadcasters aren't subject to government austerity
> programs.

On the other hand, they are spending their own money.

-- 
Juho Julkunen

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#489057

FromDavid Johnston <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com>
Date2018-03-25 21:40 -0600
Message-ID<p99q3e$1ec$1@gioia.aioe.org>
In reply to#489053
On 2018-03-25 8:37 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Mar 2018 04:28:50 +0300, Juho Julkunen
> <giaotanj@hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> In article <16nfbdhe5m689lbtnbe2rr59ch5kosh1s1@4ax.com>, jclarke.873638
>> @gmail.com says...
>>>
>>> On Sun, 25 Mar 2018 16:49:56 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
>>> Heydt) wrote:
>>>>
>>>> (Cf. a lot of early episodes of Doctor Who, which were recorded
>>>> over because tapes cost money.)
>>>
>>> The benefits of socialized television.
>>
>> Tapes cost money for private broadcasters, too.
> 
> But private broadcasters aren't subject to government austerity
> programs.
> 

And of course being private corporations they have no interest in saving 
money.

  Almost all of NBC's The Tonight Show with Jack Paar and the first ten 
years (1962–1972) hosted by Johnny Carson were taped over by the network 
and no longer exist. The videotape was being used repeatedly, hence the 
reason that Carson's Tonight Show picture looked muddy during broadcast 
in the late 1960s. Selected sequences from the 1962–1972 era survive and 
were often replayed by Carson himself (particularly in the months 
preceding his retirement in 1992) and have been released to home video. 
Some Paar episodes also survive and have also been released to home 
video—in this case, DVD.

Similarly, NBC reused the tapes of ventriloquist Shari Lewis's 1960-1963 
Saturday morning children's program The Shari Lewis Show, to record 
coverage of the 1964 Democratic and Republican National Conventions. 
Lewis said in an interview decades later that to her, this was a shame, 
since the shows were beautifully done as a showcase of NBC's early color 
broadcast work.
Most US daytime soap opera episodes broadcast before 1978 have been 
lost. The status of episodes, however, varies widely from show to show:
Soaps produced by Procter & Gamble Productions, including Search for 
Tomorrow, Guiding Light, As the World Turns, The Edge of Night, and 
Another World began preserving their episodes in 1978. A few scattered 
episodes, mostly black and white kinescopes, of these series exist from 
the 1950s, 1960s, and early to mid-1970s. The CBS soaps Love of Life and 
The Secret Storm, as well as several short-lived shows, suffered the 
same fate.
ABC's One Life to Live and All My Children were originally owned by 
their creator, Agnes Nixon, who chose to archive all episodes. However, 
early episodes of AMC were only saved as black-and-white kinescopes 
despite being produced and telecast in color. ABC purchased the shows in 
late 1974; different sources report that Nixon's archive was either lost 
in a fire or erased. A few black-and-white kinescopes of both series' 
early years exist, as well as a few color episodes. ABC began full 
archiving of these soaps at Nixon's insistence when they expanded from 
30 minutes to an hour—AMC in 1977, and OLTL in 1978.
Most 1963–1970 episodes of ABC's longest-running General Hospital 
survive because the series was then owned by Selmur Productions. Few 
episodes from 1970 to 1977 were saved. Ryan's Hope premiered in 1975, 
several years before ABC began saving all of its daytime programming, 
but exists in its entirety as it was originally owned by Labine-Mayer 
Productions.
Dark Shadows, created by Dan Curtis, which ran from 1966 to 1971, has 
the distinction of being one of the few soap operas to have nearly all 
of its original episodes preserved. As a result of kinescope, many 
earlier episodes of which the master film was lost are still available. 
However, episode #1219 was lost but reconstructed with an audio 
recording for home video release.
Two long-running soaps have full archives: Days of Our Lives, which 
premiered in 1965, and The Young and the Restless, which premiered in 
1973. Both series were originally distributed by Screen Gems.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]


#489063

Fromted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>)
Date2018-03-26 04:11 +0000
Message-ID<fhra6sFnv30U2@mid.individual.net>
In reply to#489057
In article <p99q3e$1ec$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
David Johnston  <davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> wrote:
>On 2018-03-25 8:37 PM, J. Clarke wrote:
>> On Mon, 26 Mar 2018 04:28:50 +0300, Juho Julkunen
>> <giaotanj@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> In article <16nfbdhe5m689lbtnbe2rr59ch5kosh1s1@4ax.com>, jclarke.873638
>>> @gmail.com says...
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, 25 Mar 2018 16:49:56 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
>>>> Heydt) wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> (Cf. a lot of early episodes of Doctor Who, which were recorded
>>>>> over because tapes cost money.)
>>>>
>>>> The benefits of socialized television.
>>>
>>> Tapes cost money for private broadcasters, too.
>> 
>> But private broadcasters aren't subject to government austerity
>> programs.
>> 
>
>And of course being private corporations they have no interest in saving 
>money.
>
>  Almost all of NBC's The Tonight Show with Jack Paar and the first ten 
>years (1962–1972) hosted by Johnny Carson were taped over by the network 
>and no longer exist. The videotape was being used repeatedly, hence the 
>reason that Carson's Tonight Show picture looked muddy during broadcast 
>in the late 1960s. Selected sequences from the 1962–1972 era survive and 
>were often replayed by Carson himself (particularly in the months 
>preceding his retirement in 1992) and have been released to home video. 
>Some Paar episodes also survive and have also been released to home 
>video—in this case, DVD.
>
>Similarly, NBC reused the tapes of ventriloquist Shari Lewis's 1960-1963 
>Saturday morning children's program The Shari Lewis Show, to record 
>coverage of the 1964 Democratic and Republican National Conventions. 
>Lewis said in an interview decades later that to her, this was a shame, 
>since the shows were beautifully done as a showcase of NBC's early color 
>broadcast work.
>Most US daytime soap opera episodes broadcast before 1978 have been 
>lost. The status of episodes, however, varies widely from show to show:
>Soaps produced by Procter & Gamble Productions, including Search for 
>Tomorrow, Guiding Light, As the World Turns, The Edge of Night, and 
>Another World began preserving their episodes in 1978. A few scattered 
>episodes, mostly black and white kinescopes, of these series exist from 
>the 1950s, 1960s, and early to mid-1970s. The CBS soaps Love of Life and 
>The Secret Storm, as well as several short-lived shows, suffered the 
>same fate.
>ABC's One Life to Live and All My Children were originally owned by 
>their creator, Agnes Nixon, who chose to archive all episodes. However, 
>early episodes of AMC were only saved as black-and-white kinescopes 
>despite being produced and telecast in color. ABC purchased the shows in 
>late 1974; different sources report that Nixon's archive was either lost 
>in a fire or erased. A few black-and-white kinescopes of both series' 
>early years exist, as well as a few color episodes. ABC began full 
>archiving of these soaps at Nixon's insistence when they expanded from 
>30 minutes to an hour—AMC in 1977, and OLTL in 1978.
>Most 1963–1970 episodes of ABC's longest-running General Hospital 
>survive because the series was then owned by Selmur Productions. Few 
>episodes from 1970 to 1977 were saved. Ryan's Hope premiered in 1975, 
>several years before ABC began saving all of its daytime programming, 
>but exists in its entirety as it was originally owned by Labine-Mayer 
>Productions.
>Dark Shadows, created by Dan Curtis, which ran from 1966 to 1971, has 
>the distinction of being one of the few soap operas to have nearly all 
>of its original episodes preserved. As a result of kinescope, many 
>earlier episodes of which the master film was lost are still available. 
>However, episode #1219 was lost but reconstructed with an audio 
>recording for home video release.
>Two long-running soaps have full archives: Days of Our Lives, which 
>premiered in 1965, and The Young and the Restless, which premiered in 
>1973. Both series were originally distributed by Screen Gems.
>

Interesting article on how Desi Arnaz invented syndication:

	http://www.americanheritage.com/content/what-desi-wrought

	But if the basic creative decisions had been made, the
	business ones had not. CBS wanted the series done live in
	New York. The East Coast was where the audience was, and
	if the show was done in Hollywood, the East Coast would
	have to see blurry kinescopes. Lucy and Desi wanted to stay
	in Hollywood, so Desi negotiated. He suggested using their
	production company, Desilu, to film the show ahead of time.
	This solved the quality problem but would considerably
	increase the production costs, originally budgeted at what
	now seems a minuscule $19,500 an episode. Desi, picking a
	figure out of thin air, guessed that the increase would
	amount to $5,000.

	After much hemming and hawing, Philip Morris and CBS agreed
	to come up with an additional $2,000 each. But Lucy and
	Desi, who were to be paid $2,500 each and own half the show,
	would have to take a thousand-dollar salary cut between
	them on each of the first thirty-nine episodes to make up
	the difference.

	Arnaz made a counteroffer. He and Lucy would take the salary
	cut, provided CBS gave them sole ownership. Since in 1951
	most television shows were done live and preserved only on
	kinescopes, yesterdays TV shows, CBS thought, were worth
	about the same as yesterdays newspapers. So CBS readily
	agreed. The suits figured they weren't giving up much.

	But Arnaz knew that he and Lucy weren't giving up much either.
	In our income tax bracket, he explained, we might have ended
	up with about $5,000 of the $39,000 we were losing [in
	salary cuts]. So in effect, we were buying the other half
	of the series for $5,000.

	That, of course, turned out to be the bargain of the century.
	Because I Love Lucy was filmed, not performed live, for the
	first time in television, there was something worth selling
	after the original broadcast was over, and because I Love
	Lucy turned into one of the biggest hits in the history of
	show business, there was no lack of offers to buy.
-- 
------
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

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#489058

Fromdjheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt)
Date2018-03-26 03:29 +0000
Message-ID<p66HpA.1JBA@kithrup.com>
In reply to#489053
In article <f6ngbdl2nikbe62noj4n4l3pohi167fa8g@4ax.com>,
J. Clarke  <jclarke.873638@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Mon, 26 Mar 2018 04:28:50 +0300, Juho Julkunen
><giaotanj@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>In article <16nfbdhe5m689lbtnbe2rr59ch5kosh1s1@4ax.com>, jclarke.873638
>>@gmail.com says...
>>> 
>>> On Sun, 25 Mar 2018 16:49:56 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
>>> Heydt) wrote:
>>> >
>>> >(Cf. a lot of early episodes of Doctor Who, which were recorded
>>> >over because tapes cost money.)
>>> 
>>> The benefits of socialized television.
>>
>>Tapes cost money for private broadcasters, too.
>
>But private broadcasters aren't subject to government austerity
>programs.

No, but they still have budgets.

-- 
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com

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