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Groups > rec.arts.sf.written > #441269 > unrolled thread
| Started by | Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2016-06-04 22:23 -0700 |
| Last post | 2016-08-07 00:24 -0700 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 94 — 36 participants |
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Examples where authors messed up Timelines Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> - 2016-06-04 22:23 -0700
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Ahasuerus <ahasuerus@email.com> - 2016-06-05 06:47 -0700
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-06-05 10:01 -0700
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-06-06 21:19 -0500
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines mcdowell_ag@sky.com - 2016-06-05 08:37 -0700
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines lenona321@yahoo.com - 2016-06-05 10:57 -0700
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2016-06-05 18:33 +0000
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines lenona321@yahoo.com - 2016-06-05 11:43 -0700
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2016-06-05 20:40 +0000
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-06-05 17:22 -0400
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb) - 2016-06-09 01:29 +0000
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines lenona321@yahoo.com - 2016-06-09 07:54 -0700
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-06-09 12:35 -0400
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines lenona321@yahoo.com - 2016-06-09 12:45 -0700
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2016-06-10 21:46 -0600
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines lenona321@yahoo.com - 2016-06-11 09:35 -0700
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-06-11 14:06 -0400
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-06-11 23:32 +0000
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-06-11 23:49 -0400
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-06-12 04:34 +0000
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-06-13 22:32 -0700
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-06-14 14:09 -0400
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Joe Bernstein <joe@sfbooks.com> - 2016-06-09 09:17 -0700
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-06-09 18:35 +0000
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Robert Woodward <robertaw@drizzle.com> - 2016-06-09 21:31 -0700
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-06-10 05:16 +0000
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-06-10 02:37 -0500
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2016-08-04 18:41 -0400
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines lenona321@yahoo.com - 2016-06-09 11:56 -0700
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Joe Bernstein <joe@sfbooks.com> - 2016-06-09 18:55 -0700
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Jerry Brown <jerry@jwbrown.co.uk.invalid> - 2016-06-09 21:04 +0100
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines leif.roar@dimnakorr.com - 2016-06-10 03:24 -0500
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-06-10 15:00 +0000
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Gene Wirchenko <genew@telus.net> - 2016-06-10 14:05 -0700
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Richard Botting <rjbotting03@gmail.com> - 2016-06-22 09:59 -0700
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines lenona321@yahoo.com - 2016-06-23 17:57 -0700
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-06-25 00:16 +0000
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Brenda <brendawriter@yahoo.com> - 2016-06-11 22:01 -0400
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> - 2016-06-11 21:13 -0600
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2016-06-12 02:04 -0400
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2016-06-12 07:18 +0000
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-06-12 06:57 -0400
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb) - 2016-06-12 06:24 +0000
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Juho Julkunen <giaotanj@hotmail.com> - 2016-06-12 10:44 +0300
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines mcdowell_ag@sky.com - 2016-06-12 05:48 -0700
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-06-12 13:28 -0700
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2016-06-12 14:53 -0600
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-06-12 20:46 -0500
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Jesper Lauridsen <rorschak@sorrystofanet.dk> - 2016-07-14 00:04 +0000
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2016-06-06 03:57 -0700
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> - 2016-06-06 11:30 -0400
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> - 2016-06-07 00:49 +0000
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2016-06-06 19:52 -0600
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-06-06 21:25 -0500
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines David Johnston <Davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> - 2016-06-06 20:59 -0600
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> - 2016-06-06 20:25 -0700
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> - 2016-06-07 05:02 +0000
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2016-06-07 05:09 +0000
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> - 2016-06-07 05:51 +0000
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2016-06-07 06:21 +0000
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Moriarty <blues95@ivillage.com> - 2016-06-06 23:31 -0700
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Jerry Brown <jerry@jwbrown.co.uk.invalid> - 2016-06-07 09:43 +0100
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Stephen Allcroft <stephenallcroft@lycos.co.uk> - 2016-06-07 02:22 -0700
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-06-07 14:30 -0400
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Peter Trei <petertrei@gmail.com> - 2016-06-07 12:05 -0700
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Howard C <howard.r.carter@gmail.com> - 2016-06-07 07:55 -0700
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2016-06-08 02:23 -0700
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-06-07 23:02 +0000
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> - 2016-06-10 01:39 +0000
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Ahasuerus <ahasuerus@email.com> - 2016-06-07 05:04 -0700
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> - 2016-06-07 09:58 -0700
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> - 2016-06-07 20:54 +0000
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Ahasuerus <ahasuerus@email.com> - 2016-06-07 14:50 -0700
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) - 2016-06-07 21:58 +0000
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Ahasuerus <ahasuerus@email.com> - 2016-06-07 15:19 -0700
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) - 2016-06-08 13:53 +0000
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines lal_truckee <lal_truckee@yahoo.com> - 2016-06-07 16:03 -0700
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Ahasuerus <ahasuerus@email.com> - 2016-06-07 16:34 -0700
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2016-06-07 04:59 -0700
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Peter Trei <petertrei@gmail.com> - 2016-06-07 05:33 -0700
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2016-08-04 21:01 -0400
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Don Kuenz <g@crcomp.net> - 2016-08-05 02:53 +0000
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines wdstarr@panix.com (William December Starr) - 2016-08-04 23:19 -0400
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> - 2016-08-05 18:32 +1200
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines "Brian M. Scott" <b.scott@csuohio.edu> - 2016-08-05 08:37 -0400
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2016-08-06 04:53 -0700
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Don Kuenz <g@crcomp.net> - 2016-08-08 16:07 +0000
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> - 2016-08-09 08:43 -0600
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Don Kuenz <g@crcomp.net> - 2016-08-09 19:36 +0000
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> - 2016-08-06 04:35 -0400
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Paul Colquhoun <newsposter@andor.dropbear.id.au> - 2016-08-05 14:04 +1000
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> - 2016-06-06 21:23 -0500
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> - 2016-06-23 02:24 -0700
Re: Examples where authors messed up Timelines Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> - 2016-08-07 00:24 -0700
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| From | ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-12 07:18 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <ds4gm9FcttcU2@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #441790 |
In article <1br3c3qeuv.fsf@pfeifferfamily.net>, Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote: >Brenda <brendawriter@yahoo.com> writes: > >> If you examine the Horatio Hornblower books closely, Forrester slips >> an extra year into the Napoleonic wars. Otherwise there just isn't >> time for Hornblower to do everything he does. > >Just one? I'd have to check again, but my recollection is it was a lot >more than that... He had nothing on "M.A.S.H.".. -- ------ columbiaclosings.com What's not in Columbia anymore..
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| From | "J. Clarke" <j.clarke.873638@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-12 06:57 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <MPG.31c70a1f39cfb48b98a249@news.eternal-september.org> |
| In reply to | #441812 |
In article <ds4gm9FcttcU2@mid.individual.net>, ted@loft.tnolan.com says... > > In article <1br3c3qeuv.fsf@pfeifferfamily.net>, > Joe Pfeiffer <pfeiffer@cs.nmsu.edu> wrote: > >Brenda <brendawriter@yahoo.com> writes: > > > >> If you examine the Horatio Hornblower books closely, Forrester slips > >> an extra year into the Napoleonic wars. Otherwise there just isn't > >> time for Hornblower to do everything he does. > > > >Just one? I'd have to check again, but my recollection is it was a lot > >more than that... > > He had nothing on "M.A.S.H.".. America clearly has more stomach for a long war story than it does for a long war. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus
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| From | goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu (David Goldfarb) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-12 06:24 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <o8nB46.1Czy@kithrup.com> |
| In reply to | #441789 |
In article <njifp5$fqr$1@dont-email.me>, Brenda <brendawriter@yahoo.com> wrote: >If you examine the Horatio Hornblower books closely, Forrester slips an >extra year into the Napoleonic wars. Otherwise there just isn't time for >Hornblower to do everything he does. In the Aubrey and Maturin books, O'Brien has Maturin become a prisoner of war during the War of 1812 while still single. He has time to get out of captivity, meet a girl, marry her, and have a child who eventually has a tenth birthday...all before Napoleon escapes from Elba. -- David Goldfarb | "I am an atheist, myself. A simple faith, but goldfarbdj@gmail.com | a great comfort to me in these last days." goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu | -- Lois McMaster Bujold, _Shards of Honor_
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| From | Juho Julkunen <giaotanj@hotmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-12 10:44 +0300 |
| Message-ID | <MPG.31c73f751945e1ef989953@news.kolumbus.fi> |
| In reply to | #441809 |
In article <o8nB46.1Czy@kithrup.com>, goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu says... > > In article <njifp5$fqr$1@dont-email.me>, > Brenda <brendawriter@yahoo.com> wrote: > >If you examine the Horatio Hornblower books closely, Forrester slips an > >extra year into the Napoleonic wars. Otherwise there just isn't time for > >Hornblower to do everything he does. > > In the Aubrey and Maturin books, O'Brien has Maturin become a prisoner > of war during the War of 1812 while still single. He has time to > get out of captivity, meet a girl, marry her, and have a child who > eventually has a tenth birthday...all before Napoleon escapes from Elba. It wasn't really a mess-up, though, as O'Brien quite purposefully telescoped the timeline. (Also, Maturin first met the girl in 1802.) -- Juho Julkunen
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| From | mcdowell_ag@sky.com |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-12 05:48 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <5de0cf05-5063-4bc8-9d0c-58fe2b8524b1@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #441813 |
On Sunday, June 12, 2016 at 8:44:58 AM UTC+1, Juho Julkunen wrote: > In article <o8nB46.1Czy@kithrup.com>, goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu says... > > > > In article <njifp5$fqr$1@dont-email.me>, > > Brenda <brendawriter@yahoo.com> wrote: > > >If you examine the Horatio Hornblower books closely, Forrester slips an > > >extra year into the Napoleonic wars. Otherwise there just isn't time for > > >Hornblower to do everything he does. > > > > In the Aubrey and Maturin books, O'Brien has Maturin become a prisoner > > of war during the War of 1812 while still single. He has time to > > get out of captivity, meet a girl, marry her, and have a child who > > eventually has a tenth birthday...all before Napoleon escapes from Elba. > > It wasn't really a mess-up, though, as O'Brien quite purposefully > telescoped the timeline. > > (Also, Maturin first met the girl in 1802.) > > -- > Juho Julkunen I have a copy of "The Far Side of the World" with an introduction including ... If these tales are to continue, however, it is clear that the author will soon have originality thrust upon him, for he is running short of history. Some ten or eleven years ago a respectable American publisher suggested that he should write a book about the Royal Navy of Nelson's time; he was happy to agree... But had the writer known how much pleasure he was to take in this kind of writing, and how many books were to follow the first he would certainly have stared the sequence much earlier..... even in the early nineteenth century the year contained only twelve months, and it is possible that in the near future the author (if his readers will bear with him) may be led to make use of hypothetical years, rather like those hypothetical moons used in the calculation of Easter: an 1812a is it were or even an 1812b.
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| From | Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-12 13:28 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <e9942d92-9033-4fc2-809a-b34cfc4b7f6e@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #441819 |
On Sunday, June 12, 2016 at 8:48:22 AM UTC-4, mcdow...@sky.com wrote: > On Sunday, June 12, 2016 at 8:44:58 AM UTC+1, Juho Julkunen wrote: > > In article <o8nB46.1Czy@kithrup.com>, goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu says... > > > > > > In article <njifp5$fqr$1@dont-email.me>, > > > Brenda <brendawriter@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > >If you examine the Horatio Hornblower books closely, Forrester slips an > > > >extra year into the Napoleonic wars. Otherwise there just isn't time for > > > >Hornblower to do everything he does. > > > > > > In the Aubrey and Maturin books, O'Brien has Maturin become a prisoner > > > of war during the War of 1812 while still single. He has time to > > > get out of captivity, meet a girl, marry her, and have a child who > > > eventually has a tenth birthday...all before Napoleon escapes from Elba. > > > > It wasn't really a mess-up, though, as O'Brien quite purposefully > > telescoped the timeline. > > > > (Also, Maturin first met the girl in 1802.) > > > > -- > > Juho Julkunen > > I have a copy of "The Far Side of the World" with an introduction including > ... > If these tales are to continue, however, it is clear that the author will soon have originality thrust upon him, for he is running short of history. Some ten or eleven years ago a respectable American publisher suggested that he should write a book about the Royal Navy of Nelson's time; he was happy to agree... But had the writer known how much pleasure he was to take in this kind of writing, and how many books were to follow the first he would certainly have stared the sequence much earlier..... even in the early nineteenth century the year contained only twelve months, and it is possible that in the near future the author (if his readers will bear with him) may be led to make use of hypothetical years, rather like those hypothetical moons used in the calculation of Easter: an 1812a is it were or even an 1812b. Bernard Cornwell ran out of Napoleonic War for Richard Sharpe, so he went back and wrote prequels set in India, and one set during the Chilean War of Independence. I really wanted an O'Brien/Cornwell collaboration, teaming up Aubrey, Maturin, Sharpe and Harper. Kevin R
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| From | Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-12 14:53 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <ds60f0FmkvbU4@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #441837 |
Kevrob <kevrob@my-deja.com> wrote: >Bernard Cornwell ran out of Napoleonic War for Richard Sharpe, so he >went back and wrote prequels set in India, and one set during the >Chilean War of Independence. Hollywood had to shift Indiana Jones into a whole new war, setting movie four (if you're one of us that believe it existed) into the cold war against the Soviets. -- We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.
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| From | David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-12 20:46 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <AridnRdlk8frjcPKnZ2dnUU7-WudnZ2d@earthlink.com> |
| In reply to | #441809 |
On 2016-06-12, David Goldfarb <goldfarb@ocf.berkeley.edu> wrote: > Brenda <brendawriter@yahoo.com> wrote: >>If you examine the Horatio Hornblower books closely, Forrester slips an >>extra year into the Napoleonic wars. Otherwise there just isn't time for >>Hornblower to do everything he does. > > In the Aubrey and Maturin books, O'Brien has Maturin become a prisoner > of war during the War of 1812 while still single. He has time to > get out of captivity, meet a girl, marry her, and have a child who > eventually has a tenth birthday...all before Napoleon escapes from Elba. Obviously a victim of undocumented metric calendar reform! Dave, give us back our eleven first dates!! -- \/David DeLaney posting thru EarthLink - "It's not the pot that grows the flower It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK> http://gatekeeper.vic.com/~dbd/ -net.legends/Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
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| From | Jesper Lauridsen <rorschak@sorrystofanet.dk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-07-14 00:04 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <nm6kuj$v9u$6@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #441789 |
On 2016-06-12, Brenda <brendawriter@yahoo.com> wrote: > If you examine the Horatio Hornblower books closely, Forrester slips an > extra year into the Napoleonic wars. Otherwise there just isn't time for > Hornblower to do everything he does. When I read them as a teenager, I was unaware that they had been written out of order and was greatly confused by the character of Hornblower's friend Bush. They had served together as lieutenants, but now that Hornblower is a captain, it is as if they've never met before?!? The answer of course being that Forrester couldn't resist putting Bush into what was effectively a prequel, despite it contradicting his earlier works.
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| From | Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-06 03:57 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <a92f9e59-c521-4f8d-a1c3-af6f723da848@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #441269 |
On Sunday, 5 June 2016 06:23:31 UTC+1, Robert Woodward wrote: > One of the potential problems when a novel (or a sequence of novels) has > two (or more) parallel plot tracks is getting out of synchronization. I > remember John Cramer mentioning that he put the plot of his first novel > (_Twistor_) in to MS Project to ensure that there was enough time in > each track to support the plot and that the tracks stayed synchronized. > But I suspect that this (or the equivalent) has been skipped by other > authors. > > For example, Mike Moscoe (as Mike Shepherd), split off a Vicky Peterwald > trilogy from his long running Kris Longknife series. The split occurs at > the end of KL: Daring and the forthcoming KL: Bold has the end of the > split. However, there are FOUR books between _Daring_ and _Bold_ > (_Furious_, _Defender_, _Tenacious_, and _Unrelenting_) and IMHO, each > of the first 3 cover more time than the respective titles in the Vicky > Peterwald trilogy (_Target_, _Survivor_, _Rebel_). For that matter, > _Unrelenting_ by itself might involve more time than the complete Vicky > Peterwald trilogy. In Jack Campbell's "Lost Fleet" series, travel by hypernet link is said to get you there /sooner/ when travelling to a star system that is farther away. I suspect this doesn't make sense, and I haven't noticed it being demonstrated. On the other hand, maybe it's an /excuse/ for timeline contradictions. (The "Lost Fleet" occasionally flies past the planets mentioned in spin-off series "The Lost Stars".) Terry Pratchett kind of explicitly gave up on keeping a straight timeline in his Discworld novels, by introducing an organisation of secret monks who were responsible for stopping people in the story from noticing the contradictions. Or something like that. And the big city setting went from 16th century London-ish to 19th century in about one generation. (The guy in charge is very determined.)
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| From | Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-06 11:30 -0400 |
| Message-ID | <f35blbp76mko6glouv1jko1psukirj515a@reader80.eternal-september.org> |
| In reply to | #441322 |
On Mon, 6 Jun 2016 03:57:23 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote: >Terry Pratchett kind of explicitly gave up on keeping >a straight timeline in his Discworld novels, by >introducing an organisation of secret monks who were >responsible for stopping people in the story from >noticing the contradictions. Or something like that. It's a world where magic (including time travel) is cheap and easy, and reality is fragile, so yeah, the Time Monks are needed. They don't just keep people from noticing the contradictions, they actively patch the paradoxes. >And the big city setting went from 16th century >London-ish to 19th century in about one generation. >(The guy in charge is very determined.) Again, magic is common and there's a reality shortage. There's also a surplus of narrativium, the element stories are made of. So not only did Ankh-Morpork invent movies and railroads and newspapers and flash photography and rock 'n' roll in a single generation, but it has a grand 19th-century opera house just down the block from its equivalent of the Globe Theater, with neither one seen as anachronistic or obsolete. Not to mention the clacks, a semaphore system that's equivalent to the internet. -- My webpage is at http://www.watt-evans.com --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus
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| From | Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-07 00:49 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <20160606b@crcomp.net> |
| In reply to | #441330 |
Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> wrote: > On Mon, 6 Jun 2016 03:57:23 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie > <rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote: > >>Terry Pratchett kind of explicitly gave up on keeping >>a straight timeline in his Discworld novels, by >>introducing an organisation of secret monks who were >>responsible for stopping people in the story from >>noticing the contradictions. Or something like that. > > It's a world where magic (including time travel) is cheap and easy, > and reality is fragile, so yeah, the Time Monks are needed. They > don't just keep people from noticing the contradictions, they actively > patch the paradoxes. > >>And the big city setting went from 16th century >>London-ish to 19th century in about one generation. >>(The guy in charge is very determined.) > > Again, magic is common and there's a reality shortage. There's also a > surplus of narrativium, the element stories are made of. So not only > did Ankh-Morpork invent movies and railroads and newspapers and flash > photography and rock 'n' roll in a single generation, but it has a > grand 19th-century opera house just down the block from its equivalent > of the Globe Theater, with neither one seen as anachronistic or > obsolete. > > Not to mention the clacks, a semaphore system that's equivalent to the > internet. peaking of time travel paradoxes, it seems to me that the Grandfather Paradox only applies to suicidal travelers. Off the top of my head, there are at least four stories where travelers meet young version of themselves: "By His Bootstraps" by RAH, "All You Zombies" by RAH, "The Man Who Folded Himself" by Gerrold, and "The Time Travelers Wife" by Niffenegger. In these stories, travelers protect their younger selves out of a sense of self-preservation. They also guide their younger selves. These stories are also deterministic. Does the Grandfather Paradox become moot in deterministic time travel? -- Don Kuenz KB7RPU
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| From | Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-06 19:52 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <drmnn2FknrtU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #441339 |
Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> wrote: >peaking of time travel paradoxes, it seems to me that the Grandfather >Paradox only applies to suicidal travelers. Off the top of my head, >there are at least four stories where travelers meet young version of >themselves: "By His Bootstraps" by RAH, "All You Zombies" by RAH, >"The Man Who Folded Himself" by Gerrold, and "The Time Travelers Wife" >by Niffenegger. > >In these stories, travelers protect their younger selves out of a sense >of self-preservation. They also guide their younger selves. In the story where Svetz accidentally bankrupts Ford and has to patch up the problem, does he watch himself make the initial error? >These stories are also deterministic. Does the Grandfather Paradox >become moot in deterministic time travel? In the Svetz story, it's not deterministic, but has "momentum". It takes time for the new reality to be replaced by the new one. The gradual fadeout of the central character in Back to the Future seems to be a similar "momentum" based system. Though I don't remember him ever meeting himself other than watching himself disappear into the past from LONE Pine Mall. -- We are geeks. Resistance is voltage over current.
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| From | David DeLaney <daviddelaney@earthlink.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-06 21:25 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <P4adnTPW9v0_rcvKnZ2dnUU7-c2dnZ2d@earthlink.com> |
| In reply to | #441340 |
On 2016-06-07, Greg Goss <gossg@gossg.org> wrote: > The gradual fadeout of the central character in Back to the Future > seems to be a similar "momentum" based system. Though I don't > remember him ever meeting himself other than watching himself > disappear into the past from LONE Pine Mall. ObTV (spoilers redacted somewhat): the last moments of the final one of this season's Flash episodes (currently visible on Hulu). Dave, it may take more than a letter-writing campaign :) -- \/David DeLaney posting thru EarthLink - "It's not the pot that grows the flower It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK> http://gatekeeper.vic.com/~dbd/ -net.legends/Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
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| From | David Johnston <Davidjohnston29@yahoo.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-06 20:59 -0600 |
| Message-ID | <nj5d9p$1ke$2@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #441340 |
On 6/6/2016 7:52 PM, Greg Goss wrote: > Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> wrote: > >> peaking of time travel paradoxes, it seems to me that the Grandfather >> Paradox only applies to suicidal travelers. Off the top of my head, >> there are at least four stories where travelers meet young version of >> themselves: "By His Bootstraps" by RAH, "All You Zombies" by RAH, >> "The Man Who Folded Himself" by Gerrold, and "The Time Travelers Wife" >> by Niffenegger. >> >> In these stories, travelers protect their younger selves out of a sense >> of self-preservation. They also guide their younger selves. > > In the story where Svetz accidentally bankrupts Ford and has to patch > up the problem, does he watch himself make the initial error? > >> These stories are also deterministic. Does the Grandfather Paradox >> become moot in deterministic time travel? > > In the Svetz story, it's not deterministic, but has "momentum". It > takes time for the new reality to be replaced by the new one. > > The gradual fadeout of the central character in Back to the Future > seems to be a similar "momentum" based system. Though I don't > remember him ever meeting himself other than watching himself > disappear into the past from LONE Pine Mall. > He went back and saw part his performance from the first movie lat. His past self never saw his future self though to avoid weirdness.
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| From | "nuny@bid.nes" <Alien8752@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-06 20:25 -0700 |
| Message-ID | <9ca77997-a73a-4bae-a752-fedb399639e5@googlegroups.com> |
| In reply to | #441339 |
On Monday, June 6, 2016 at 5:49:47 PM UTC-7, Don Kuenz wrote: > Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> wrote: > > On Mon, 6 Jun 2016 03:57:23 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie > > <rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote: > > > >>Terry Pratchett kind of explicitly gave up on keeping > >>a straight timeline in his Discworld novels, by > >>introducing an organisation of secret monks who were > >>responsible for stopping people in the story from > >>noticing the contradictions. Or something like that. > > > > It's a world where magic (including time travel) is cheap and easy, > > and reality is fragile, so yeah, the Time Monks are needed. They > > don't just keep people from noticing the contradictions, they actively > > patch the paradoxes. > > > >>And the big city setting went from 16th century > >>London-ish to 19th century in about one generation. > >>(The guy in charge is very determined.) > > > > Again, magic is common and there's a reality shortage. There's also a > > surplus of narrativium, the element stories are made of. So not only > > did Ankh-Morpork invent movies and railroads and newspapers and flash > > photography and rock 'n' roll in a single generation, but it has a > > grand 19th-century opera house just down the block from its equivalent > > of the Globe Theater, with neither one seen as anachronistic or > > obsolete. > > > > Not to mention the clacks, a semaphore system that's equivalent to the > > internet. > > peaking of time travel paradoxes, it seems to me that the Grandfather > Paradox only applies to suicidal travelers. Off the top of my head, > there are at least four stories where travelers meet young version of > themselves: "By His Bootstraps" by RAH, "All You Zombies" by RAH, > "The Man Who Folded Himself" by Gerrold, and "The Time Travelers Wife" > by Niffenegger. I don't know that last one; have to look it up. > In these stories, travelers protect their younger selves out of a sense > of self-preservation. They also guide their younger selves. In Gerrold's _Man Who Folded Himself_ the protag assembles many versions of himself from alternate timelines in one place- I recall one scene where a beefy creepy alter mentions he'd like to boink one of the more "delicate" alters. > These stories are also deterministic. Does the Grandfather Paradox > become moot in deterministic time travel? MWFH is anything but deterministic (despite the SPOILER protag eventually "closing the loop" that started it all. Anyway, if there isn't one, there should be a story about somebody going back specifically to kill their grandfather who succeeds, but the Universe collapses from the paradox... Mark L. Fergerson
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| From | Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-07 05:02 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <20160606d@crcomp.net> |
| In reply to | #441352 |
nuny@bid.nes <Alien8752@gmail.com> wrote: > On Monday, June 6, 2016 at 5:49:47 PM UTC-7, Don Kuenz wrote: >> Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> wrote: >> > On Mon, 6 Jun 2016 03:57:23 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie >> > <rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote: >> > >> >>Terry Pratchett kind of explicitly gave up on keeping >> >>a straight timeline in his Discworld novels, by >> >>introducing an organisation of secret monks who were >> >>responsible for stopping people in the story from >> >>noticing the contradictions. Or something like that. >> > >> > It's a world where magic (including time travel) is cheap and easy, >> > and reality is fragile, so yeah, the Time Monks are needed. They >> > don't just keep people from noticing the contradictions, they actively >> > patch the paradoxes. >> > >> >>And the big city setting went from 16th century >> >>London-ish to 19th century in about one generation. >> >>(The guy in charge is very determined.) >> > >> > Again, magic is common and there's a reality shortage. There's also a >> > surplus of narrativium, the element stories are made of. So not only >> > did Ankh-Morpork invent movies and railroads and newspapers and flash >> > photography and rock 'n' roll in a single generation, but it has a >> > grand 19th-century opera house just down the block from its equivalent >> > of the Globe Theater, with neither one seen as anachronistic or >> > obsolete. >> > >> > Not to mention the clacks, a semaphore system that's equivalent to the >> > internet. >> >> peaking of time travel paradoxes, it seems to me that the Grandfather >> Paradox only applies to suicidal travelers. Off the top of my head, >> there are at least four stories where travelers meet young version of >> themselves: "By His Bootstraps" by RAH, "All You Zombies" by RAH, >> "The Man Who Folded Himself" by Gerrold, and "The Time Travelers Wife" >> by Niffenegger. > > I don't know that last one; have to look it up. > >> In these stories, travelers protect their younger selves out of a sense >> of self-preservation. They also guide their younger selves. > > In Gerrold's _Man Who Folded Himself_ the protag assembles many versions of himself from alternate timelines in one place - I recall one scene where a beefy creepy alter mentions he'd like to boink one of the more "delicate" alters. > >> These stories are also deterministic. Does the Grandfather Paradox >> become moot in deterministic time travel? > > MWFH is anything but deterministic (despite the > > SPOILER > > > > > > > > > > > > > > protag eventually "closing the loop" that started it all. > > Anyway, if there isn't one, there should be a story about somebody > going back specifically to kill their grandfather who > succeeds, but the Universe collapses from the paradox... In "Thompson's Time Traveling Theory" by Weisinger, a man named Thompson travels back into past and shoots his own grandfather between the eyes. When he returns he asks two men how far it is to New York. The men tell him that New York was wiped out of existence in the war of 1920. Despondent over changing his present, Thompson turns the gun on himself. Then readers find out that the two men are asylum inmates. And that Thompson's grandfather "had had a white, furrowed scar on his forehead that might have been caused by a glancing bullet." ISFDB shows that this story appears in "Fantasy Magazine," January 1937. [1] My copy appears in "Amazing Stories," March 1944. But the "Amazing" publication is missing from ISFDB. Is it possible for anyone to add "Amazing" to the story's listing? TIA. Note. 1. http://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?1295738 -- Don Kuenz KB7RPU
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| From | ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-07 05:09 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <drn38cFmk4sU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #441357 |
In article <20160606d@crcomp.net>, Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> wrote: > >nuny@bid.nes <Alien8752@gmail.com> wrote: >> On Monday, June 6, 2016 at 5:49:47 PM UTC-7, Don Kuenz wrote: >>> Lawrence Watt-Evans <lwe@sff.net> wrote: >>> > On Mon, 6 Jun 2016 03:57:23 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie >>> > <rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote: >>> > >>> >>Terry Pratchett kind of explicitly gave up on keeping >>> >>a straight timeline in his Discworld novels, by >>> >>introducing an organisation of secret monks who were >>> >>responsible for stopping people in the story from >>> >>noticing the contradictions. Or something like that. >>> > >>> > It's a world where magic (including time travel) is cheap and easy, >>> > and reality is fragile, so yeah, the Time Monks are needed. They >>> > don't just keep people from noticing the contradictions, they actively >>> > patch the paradoxes. >>> > >>> >>And the big city setting went from 16th century >>> >>London-ish to 19th century in about one generation. >>> >>(The guy in charge is very determined.) >>> > >>> > Again, magic is common and there's a reality shortage. There's also a >>> > surplus of narrativium, the element stories are made of. So not only >>> > did Ankh-Morpork invent movies and railroads and newspapers and flash >>> > photography and rock 'n' roll in a single generation, but it has a >>> > grand 19th-century opera house just down the block from its equivalent >>> > of the Globe Theater, with neither one seen as anachronistic or >>> > obsolete. >>> > >>> > Not to mention the clacks, a semaphore system that's equivalent to the >>> > internet. >>> >>> peaking of time travel paradoxes, it seems to me that the Grandfather >>> Paradox only applies to suicidal travelers. Off the top of my head, >>> there are at least four stories where travelers meet young version of >>> themselves: "By His Bootstraps" by RAH, "All You Zombies" by RAH, >>> "The Man Who Folded Himself" by Gerrold, and "The Time Travelers Wife" >>> by Niffenegger. >> >> I don't know that last one; have to look it up. >> >>> In these stories, travelers protect their younger selves out of a sense >>> of self-preservation. They also guide their younger selves. >> >> In Gerrold's _Man Who Folded Himself_ the protag assembles many >versions of himself from alternate timelines in one place >- I recall one scene where a beefy creepy alter mentions he'd like to >boink one of the more "delicate" alters. >> >>> These stories are also deterministic. Does the Grandfather Paradox >>> become moot in deterministic time travel? >> >> MWFH is anything but deterministic (despite the >> >> SPOILER >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> protag eventually "closing the loop" that started it all. >> >> Anyway, if there isn't one, there should be a story about somebody >> going back specifically to kill their grandfather who >> succeeds, but the Universe collapses from the paradox... > >In "Thompson's Time Traveling Theory" by Weisinger, a man named Thompson >travels back into past and shoots his own grandfather between the eyes. >When he returns he asks two men how far it is to New York. The men >tell him that New York was wiped out of existence in the war of 1920. >Despondent over changing his present, Thompson turns the gun on himself. > >Then readers find out that the two men are asylum inmates. And that >Thompson's grandfather "had had a white, furrowed scar on his forehead >that might have been caused by a glancing bullet." > What was his motivation? Was he trying to prove the past couldn't be changed? -- ------ columbiaclosings.com What's not in Columbia anymore..
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| From | Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-07 05:51 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <20160606e@crcomp.net> |
| In reply to | #441358 |
Ted Nolan <tednolan> <ted@loft.tnolan.com> wrote:
> In article <20160606d@crcomp.net>, Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> wrote:
>>
>>nuny@bid.nes <Alien8752@gmail.com> wrote:
<snip>
>>> Anyway, if there isn't one, there should be a story about somebody
>>> going back specifically to kill their grandfather who
>>> succeeds, but the Universe collapses from the paradox...
>>
>>In "Thompson's Time Traveling Theory" by Weisinger, a man named Thompson
>>travels back into past and shoots his own grandfather between the eyes.
>>When he returns he asks two men how far it is to New York. The men
>>tell him that New York was wiped out of existence in the war of 1920.
>>Despondent over changing his present, Thompson turns the gun on himself.
>>
>>Then readers find out that the two men are asylum inmates. And that
>>Thompson's grandfather "had had a white, furrowed scar on his forehead
>>that might have been caused by a glancing bullet."
>>
>
> What was his motivation? Was he trying to prove the past couldn't
> be changed?
Thompson's a writer whose editor rejects a time travel story with this
admonishment:
"Why, the last time I printed a time-traveling story, we
received dozens of protests from readers. No matter how
ingenious be the plot, the old 'grandfather' argument
invariably whips the author!"
So Thompson sets out to disprove the grandfather paradox.
--
Don Kuenz KB7RPU
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| From | ted@loft.tnolan.com (Ted Nolan <tednolan>) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2016-06-07 06:21 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <drn7euFnd30U1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #441361 |
In article <20160606e@crcomp.net>, Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> wrote: > >Ted Nolan <tednolan> <ted@loft.tnolan.com> wrote: >> In article <20160606d@crcomp.net>, Don Kuenz <garbage@crcomp.net> wrote: >>> >>>nuny@bid.nes <Alien8752@gmail.com> wrote: > ><snip> > >>>> Anyway, if there isn't one, there should be a story about somebody >>>> going back specifically to kill their grandfather who >>>> succeeds, but the Universe collapses from the paradox... >>> >>>In "Thompson's Time Traveling Theory" by Weisinger, a man named Thompson >>>travels back into past and shoots his own grandfather between the eyes. >>>When he returns he asks two men how far it is to New York. The men >>>tell him that New York was wiped out of existence in the war of 1920. >>>Despondent over changing his present, Thompson turns the gun on himself. >>> >>>Then readers find out that the two men are asylum inmates. And that >>>Thompson's grandfather "had had a white, furrowed scar on his forehead >>>that might have been caused by a glancing bullet." >>> >> >> What was his motivation? Was he trying to prove the past couldn't >> be changed? > >Thompson's a writer whose editor rejects a time travel story with this >admonishment: > > "Why, the last time I printed a time-traveling story, we > received dozens of protests from readers. No matter how > ingenious be the plot, the old 'grandfather' argument > invariably whips the author!" > >So Thompson sets out to disprove the grandfather paradox. > Hmm. Thanks! I suppose trying is safe enough (though shooting your grandfather is pretty cold): Either it doesn't do anything to the timeline and no harm no foul, or it writes you out of existence and you don't care about it anymore.. -- ------ columbiaclosings.com What's not in Columbia anymore..
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