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Re: Debian GNU/Linux 9 (stretch) was broken after upgraded from stretch-backports.

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  Re: Debian GNU/Linux 9 (stretch) was broken after upgraded from  stretch-backports. Nektarios Katakis <nektarios@mail.nektarioskatakis.xyz> - 2020-02-17 15:40 +0100
    Re: Debian GNU/Linux 9 (stretch) was broken after upgraded from  stretch-backports. didier.gaumet@gmail.com - 2020-02-17 18:10 +0100
      Re: Debian GNU/Linux 9 (stretch) was broken after upgraded from  stretch-backports. Nektarios Katakis <nektarios@mail.nektarioskatakis.xyz> - 2020-02-18 14:50 +0100
        Re: Debian GNU/Linux 9 (stretch) was broken after upgraded from stretch-backports. David Anthony <david.fosdick.anthony@gmail.com> - 2020-02-19 02:40 +0100
          Re: Debian GNU/Linux 9 (stretch) was broken after upgraded from  stretch-backports. Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2020-02-19 07:00 +0100
        Re: Debian GNU/Linux 9 (stretch) was broken after upgraded from  stretch-backports. didier.gaumet@gmail.com - 2020-02-19 12:00 +0100
          Re: Debian GNU/Linux 9 (stretch) was broken after upgraded from   stretch-backports. Nektarios Katakis <nektarios@mail.nektarioskatakis.xyz> - 2020-02-19 12:20 +0100
            Re: Debian GNU/Linux 9 (stretch) was broken after upgraded from  stretch-backports. Jonas Smedegaard <jonas@jones.dk> - 2020-02-19 12:40 +0100
          Re: Debian GNU/Linux 9 (stretch) was broken after upgraded from  stretch-backports. Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2020-02-19 14:50 +0100
        Re: Debian GNU/Linux 9 (stretch) was broken after upgraded from  stretch-backports. mick crane <mick.crane@gmail.com> - 2020-02-19 13:20 +0100
          Re: Debian GNU/Linux 9 (stretch) was broken after upgraded from  stretch-backports. Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2020-02-19 14:50 +0100
            Re: Debian GNU/Linux 9 (stretch) was broken after upgraded from  stretch-backports. Anastasios Lisgaras <tasosnumberten@yahoo.gr> - 2020-02-22 11:50 +0100
              Re: Debian GNU/Linux 9 (stretch) was broken after upgraded from  stretch-backports. didier.gaumet@gmail.com - 2020-02-22 19:30 +0100
                Re: Debian GNU/Linux 9 (stretch) was broken after upgraded from  stretch-backports. Anastasios Lisgaras <tasosnumberten@yahoo.gr> - 2020-02-22 20:30 +0100
                  Re: Debian GNU/Linux 9 (stretch) was broken after upgraded from  stretch-backports. didier.gaumet@gmail.com - 2020-02-22 23:10 +0100
                    Re: Debian GNU/Linux 9 (stretch) was broken after upgraded from  stretch-backports. Anastasios Lisgaras <tasosnumberten@yahoo.gr> - 2020-02-23 00:40 +0100
                      Re: Debian GNU/Linux 9 (stretch) was broken after upgraded from  stretch-backports. didier.gaumet@gmail.com - 2020-02-23 11:20 +0100

#219219 — Re: Debian GNU/Linux 9 (stretch) was broken after upgraded from stretch-backports.

Στις 2020-02-17 13:17, Anastasios Lisgaras έγραψε:
> Hello Debian community,
> 
> Recently I needed to (to be honest, I had the *desire*) to have newer
> software release.
> 
> In particular I wanted to install the nautilus-nextcloud` package
> which is exist in my laptop with Debian GNU/Linux 10 (buster)
> (https://packages.debian.org/buster/gnome/nautilus-nextcloud),
> 
> but in Debian GNU/Linux 9 (stretch) - on my desktop - there wasn't in
> the basic default repositories ( and I try to have the basic installed
> software on my system by the official Debian repositories ).
> Since I'm sure there isn't : https://packages.debian.org/stretch/gnome/
> 
> I saw that in the stretch-backports repositories, there is :
> https://packages.debian.org/stretch-backports/gnome/nautilus-nextcloud
> 
> 
> In order not to tire you with my thoughts, I'll just tell you, at first
> I just wanted to install this particular package, but then I thought it
> was time to upgrade my entire system. But i did not follow the right
> path (documentation) and at the moment i have a broken system which you
> are having trouble getting started.
> 
> So in the end, I just upgraded my whole system (or so I think anyway).
> 
> # What did I do.
> 1. I created this file : /etc/apt/sources.list.d/stretch-backports.list
> (https://pastebin.com/raw/YM11TDer)
> 2. I also created this file :
> /etc/apt/preferences.d/89_stretch-backports_default
> (https://pastebin.com/raw/F6vjDEgh).
> 
> and then I ran :
> ```
> apt update && apt list --upgradable && apt dist-upgrade && apt-get
> autoremove -y && apt-get autoclean -y && apt-get clean
> ```
> 
> but before restarting the system I kept all the logging from the update
> and you can see it in here: https://termbin.com/op1g
> 
> 
> # The result and the weird problem.
> 
> The problem is that after restarting the computer could not boot
> properly and especially with a graphical interface.
> This is where the problems begin :
> * https://imgur.com/a/sFJgnUh
> * https://imgur.com/a/uoOFVf4
> * https://imgur.com/a/yTnKIfj
> * https://imgur.com/a/Hy2IwoF
> 
> At first even from recovery mode, I had no internet.
> Looking and reading and as I had suspected that something might be to
> blame for networking (https://unix.stackexchange.com/a/390324), i went
> to the file `/etc/network/interfaces` and I commented out the "bridge
> setup", so this file now has this:
> https://pastebin.com/raw/8CHiwtaT
> 
> See also the contents of the file `etc/gdm3/daemon.conf` ( if useful ) 
> :
> https://pastebin.com/raw/4j5utUdX
> 
> 
> Because at some point in the startup, I was getting the message
> `firmware: failed to load rtl_nic/rtl8168f-1.fw`, I saw this solution
> here (https://unix.stackexchange.com/a/384411) and indeed, this message
> I think no longer appears.
> 
> But I no longer at all to have a graphical user interface ( I use GNOME
> as a graphical interface - desktop environment )
> - Is the docker to blame? Delete it? (No problem if I need to delete it
> so I can use my system.)
> - Is the graphics card to blame?
> - Is the upgrade to blame? Hasn't it been done correctly (basically it
> definitely won't have been done correctly) ?
> - Do you think I should add it here
> `/etc/apt/sources.list.d/stretch-backports.list`
> (https://pastebin.com/raw/YM11TDer) the 'contrib non-free' at the end 
> of
> the two sources?
> 
> What is to blame and what should I do to fix it?
> 
> However, the last picture of my system, is the one shown here:
> [dmseg](https://pastebin.com/raw/TSRqv4kC).
> If it is convenient or shows something more, here is the result of the
> command [journalctl -b](https://pastebin.com/raw/Rw36Jp03).
> At startup, after this point : https://imgur.com/a/0kC6SMQ i just type
> "Alt" + "F4" and goes me to the terminal.
> Luckily at least I have access from the terminal (and then ssh into the
> machine)!
> 
> 
> # The detailed features of my system.
> ---------------------------------------
> Linux 4.19.0-0.bpo.6-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.19.67-2+deb10u2~bpo9+1
> (2019-11-12) x86_64 GNU/Linux
> OS : Debian GNU/Linux 9.12 (stretch)
> Desktop Environment : GNOME Shell 3.22.3
> CPU : MD FX-8350 Eight-Core Processor
> RAM : 15940 MiB
> Motherboard : ASUS SABERTOOTH 990FX R2.0
> Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. [AMD/ATI] Oland PRO [Radeon R7 240/340]
> [1002:6613] {radeon}
> enp10s0: Realtek RTL8111/8168/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet
> Controller [10ec:8168] (rev 09)
> lspci -v  : https://pastebin.com/raw/10Y9y5nc
> 
> nautilus-nextcloud/stretch-backports,stretch-backports,now
> 2.5.1-1~bpo9+1 all [installed]
> 
> I hope we find a solution, and thank you in advance.
> Kind regards,
> Tasos

You can investigate if the `graphical.target` unit is activated and
if the programs relying on it are installed.

I dont think that your system is broken. But probably your desktop
environment is. If it doesnt hit by default the graphical.target.
The last time it happened on my laptop in a similar situation I
removed and reinstalled the whole desktop environment (something like
task-gnome-desktop or task-kde-desktop etc.) and fixed itself.

---
Regards,
Nektarios Katakis

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#219229

> Στις 2020-02-17 13:17, Anastasios Lisgaras έγραψε:
[...]
> > 1. I created this file : /etc/apt/sources.list.d/stretch-backports.list
> > (https://pastebin.com/raw/YM11TDer)
> > 2. I also created this file :
> > /etc/apt/preferences.d/89_stretch-backports_default
> > (https://pastebin.com/raw/F6vjDEgh).
> > 
> > and then I ran :
> > ```
> > apt update && apt list --upgradable && apt dist-upgrade && apt-get
> > autoremove -y && apt-get autoclean -y && apt-get clean
[...]
> > The problem is that after restarting the computer could not boot
> > properly and especially with a graphical interface.
[...]
> > - Is the upgrade to blame? Hasn't it been done correctly (basically it
> > definitely won't have been done correctly) ?
> > - Do you think I should add it here
> > `/etc/apt/sources.list.d/stretch-backports.list`
> > (https://pastebin.com/raw/YM11TDer) the 'contrib non-free' at the end 
> > of
> > the two sources?
> > 
> > What is to blame and what should I do to fix it?
[...]

Hello,

As far as I understand it:
- Backports repository is not intended as an ordinary repo from which you can install all the packages.Its purpose is to let the user install selected packages for which there is a need for a more recent version (option -t). Installing all packages from backports may lead to problems.
- By default your ordinary repo has a 500 priority and backports a 100 priority: when you set up a 500 priority for backports, it means that that backports has priority over your ordinary repo, because the version numbers are higher.
- If your ordinary (Oldstable or Stretch, in your case) repo line (or sources.list.d file) in sources.list mentions "contrib non-free" it is preferable to mention it too for the backports line. Then, generally, if you use a backports kernel, you will want to use also the backports firmwares instead of the ordinary ones.

the backports page of the wiki:
 https://wiki.debian.org/Backports

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#219245

Στις 2020-02-18 12:41, Anastasios Lisgaras έγραψε:
> On 2/17/20 6:41 PM, didier.gaumet@gmail.com wrote:
>> 
>>> Στις 2020-02-17 13:17, Anastasios Lisgaras έγραψε:
>> [...]
>>>> 1. I created this file : 
>>>> /etc/apt/sources.list.d/stretch-backports.list
>>>> (https://pastebin.com/raw/YM11TDer)
>>>> 2. I also created this file :
>>>> /etc/apt/preferences.d/89_stretch-backports_default
>>>> (https://pastebin.com/raw/F6vjDEgh).
>>>> 
>>>> and then I ran :
>>>> ```
>>>> apt update && apt list --upgradable && apt dist-upgrade && apt-get
>>>> autoremove -y && apt-get autoclean -y && apt-get clean
>> [...]
>>>> The problem is that after restarting the computer could not boot
>>>> properly and especially with a graphical interface.
>> [...]
>>>> - Is the upgrade to blame? Hasn't it been done correctly (basically 
>>>> it
>>>> definitely won't have been done correctly) ?
>>>> - Do you think I should add it here
>>>> `/etc/apt/sources.list.d/stretch-backports.list`
>>>> (https://pastebin.com/raw/YM11TDer) the 'contrib non-free' at the 
>>>> end
>>>> of
>>>> the two sources?
>>>> 
>>>> What is to blame and what should I do to fix it?
>> [...]
>> 
>> Hello,
>> 
>> As far as I understand it:
>> - Backports repository is not intended as an ordinary repo from which 
>> you can install all the packages.Its purpose is to let the user 
>> install selected packages for which there is a need for a more recent 
>> version (option -t). Installing all packages from backports may lead 
>> to problems.
>> - By default your ordinary repo has a 500 priority and backports a 100 
>> priority: when you set up a 500 priority for backports, it means that 
>> that backports has priority over your ordinary repo, because the 
>> version numbers are higher.
>> - If your ordinary (Oldstable or Stretch, in your case) repo line (or 
>> sources.list.d file) in sources.list mentions "contrib non-free" it is 
>> preferable to mention it too for the backports line. Then, generally, 
>> if you use a backports kernel, you will want to use also the backports 
>> firmwares instead of the ordinary ones.
>> 
>> the backports page of the wiki:
>>  https://wiki.debian.org/Backports
>> 
> 
> 
> Nektarios & didier thank you both for your time, interest and help!
> 
> On 2/17/20 4:32 PM, Nektarios Katakis wrote:
>> You can investigate if the `graphical.target` unit is activated and
>> if the programs relying on it are installed.
> 
> What exactly do you mean by saying `graphical.target` ?
> 

If you check the output of `systemctl status graphical.target` you ll 
see
it s a systemd target and whether it s activated or not. The related 
file
in `/lib/systemd/system/graphical.target` will also point you to 
related/
needed services for the graphical target.

You can start from there and check if those targets/services are 
enabled.
Also if they failed in your last boot (`systemctl list-units 
--state=failed`).

> Your view is certainly interesting and probably right (I've thought
> about it too), but first I would like to make sure the whole system is
> in the right state/point.
> According to the above data, and after the update/upgrade I did, all
> packages are the to right  "stretch-backports" point/state ?
> Or I should take action to set it up properly ? Is it better to leave
> from "stretch-backports" ?
> 
> Going from Debian GNU/Linux 9 (stretch) to Debina GNU/Linux 10 (buster)
> (without format) how risky can it be?
> 
Upgrading from 9 to 10 should be straight forward. In my case I ensured 
that
my system is up to date with the main repositories, that I had enough 
free space
and then modified the sources.list to buster repos and did the apt 
dist-upgrade.
That being said I didnt have any packages installed manually or on hold
(`apt-mark showhold`).

Check for a very extensive guide here
https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/release-notes/ch-upgrading.en.html

> 
> On 2/17/20 6:41 PM, didier.gaumet@gmail.com wrote:
>> - Backports repository is not intended as an ordinary repo from which
> you can install all the packages.Its purpose is to let the user install
> selected packages for which there is a need for a more recent version
> (option -t). Installing all packages from backports may lead to 
> problems.
> 
> You are absolutely right! That's exactly how I started. At first I
> wanted to put the "stretch-backports" sources, to install specific
> packages from them ( specifically only the `nautilus-nextcloud` package
> ), but then I changed my mind and played a lot more risky, because in
> the end I updated my whole system.
> 
> 
> On 2/17/20 6:41 PM, didier.gaumet@gmail.com wrote:
>> - By default your ordinary repo has a 500 priority and backports a 100
> priority: when you set up a 500 priority for backports, it means that
> that backports has priority over your ordinary repo, because the 
> version
> numbers are higher.
> 
> Thank you so much for explaining the priorities - I understood that 
> too.
> The reason I was thinking of finally updating my entire system, is
> because I thought that the `nautilus-nextcloud` package it would
> probably affect the whole in general GNOME, that is why I suppose that
> maybe they were more correct a more complete migration.
> 

The packages in the backports in general should work with the ones 
installed
from the stable repos. You can use them to selectively install what you 
need
from there.

> 
> On 2/17/20 6:41 PM, didier.gaumet@gmail.com wrote:
>> - If your ordinary (Oldstable or Stretch, in your case) repo line (or
> sources.list.d file) in sources.list mentions "contrib non-free" it is
> preferable to mention it too for the backports line. Then, generally, 
> if
> you use a backports kernel, you will want to use also the backports
> firmwares instead of the ordinary ones.
> 
> 
> Thank you for your answer. About "backports firmwares" what should I 
> do?
> What do you have to recommend me?
> ( I didn't know that at all )
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, a very important question:
> Can I go back to where I was before the update ( with only stretch
> source ) ?

You should definitely be able to do this since the `apt upgrade` command 
you
ran ended without any errors (your system is not broken anyhow).

> I mention this because the official documentation itself (and you)
> states that you do not recommend what I did.
> 
> There is a way to "I pull a rope" and go back to my sturdy/robust port
> of stretch repositories/resources ?

Simply revert the changes sources (apt edit-sources) and
`apt update && apt upgrade`

> 
> 
> List installed backports :
> dpkg-query -W | grep '~bpo' : https://pastebin.com/raw/UXLKrKvA
> 
> systemctl status of `gnome` and `graphical.target` ( if you find it
> inderest ) : https://pastebin.com/raw/1WLe87mJ

---
Regards,
Nektarios Katakis

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#219250 — Re: Debian GNU/Linux 9 (stretch) was broken after upgraded from stretch-backports.

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

Sorry to change the subject, however, I have been trying to install Debian
(and Mint) on an HP Pavilion desktop.  The installation goes very smoothly
until "Grub" starts to install.  At that point the system freezes and the
only thing that can be done is to restart the install.  I have tried the
install multiple times with the same results.  Has anyone else had a
similar problem and does anyone know how to get around the problem?

On Tue, Feb 18, 2020 at 6:46 AM Nektarios Katakis <
nektarios@mail.nektarioskatakis.xyz> wrote:

> Στις 2020-02-18 12:41, Anastasios Lisgaras έγραψε:
> > On 2/17/20 6:41 PM, didier.gaumet@gmail.com wrote:
> >>
> >>> Στις 2020-02-17 13:17, Anastasios Lisgaras έγραψε:
> >> [...]
> >>>> 1. I created this file :
> >>>> /etc/apt/sources.list.d/stretch-backports.list
> >>>> (https://pastebin.com/raw/YM11TDer)
> >>>> 2. I also created this file :
> >>>> /etc/apt/preferences.d/89_stretch-backports_default
> >>>> (https://pastebin.com/raw/F6vjDEgh).
> >>>>
> >>>> and then I ran :
> >>>> ```
> >>>> apt update && apt list --upgradable && apt dist-upgrade && apt-get
> >>>> autoremove -y && apt-get autoclean -y && apt-get clean
> >> [...]
> >>>> The problem is that after restarting the computer could not boot
> >>>> properly and especially with a graphical interface.
> >> [...]
> >>>> - Is the upgrade to blame? Hasn't it been done correctly (basically
> >>>> it
> >>>> definitely won't have been done correctly) ?
> >>>> - Do you think I should add it here
> >>>> `/etc/apt/sources.list.d/stretch-backports.list`
> >>>> (https://pastebin.com/raw/YM11TDer) the 'contrib non-free' at the
> >>>> end
> >>>> of
> >>>> the two sources?
> >>>>
> >>>> What is to blame and what should I do to fix it?
> >> [...]
> >>
> >> Hello,
> >>
> >> As far as I understand it:
> >> - Backports repository is not intended as an ordinary repo from which
> >> you can install all the packages.Its purpose is to let the user
> >> install selected packages for which there is a need for a more recent
> >> version (option -t). Installing all packages from backports may lead
> >> to problems.
> >> - By default your ordinary repo has a 500 priority and backports a 100
> >> priority: when you set up a 500 priority for backports, it means that
> >> that backports has priority over your ordinary repo, because the
> >> version numbers are higher.
> >> - If your ordinary (Oldstable or Stretch, in your case) repo line (or
> >> sources.list.d file) in sources.list mentions "contrib non-free" it is
> >> preferable to mention it too for the backports line. Then, generally,
> >> if you use a backports kernel, you will want to use also the backports
> >> firmwares instead of the ordinary ones.
> >>
> >> the backports page of the wiki:
> >>  https://wiki.debian.org/Backports
> >>
> >
> >
> > Nektarios & didier thank you both for your time, interest and help!
> >
> > On 2/17/20 4:32 PM, Nektarios Katakis wrote:
> >> You can investigate if the `graphical.target` unit is activated and
> >> if the programs relying on it are installed.
> >
> > What exactly do you mean by saying `graphical.target` ?
> >
>
> If you check the output of `systemctl status graphical.target` you ll
> see
> it s a systemd target and whether it s activated or not. The related
> file
> in `/lib/systemd/system/graphical.target` will also point you to
> related/
> needed services for the graphical target.
>
> You can start from there and check if those targets/services are
> enabled.
> Also if they failed in your last boot (`systemctl list-units
> --state=failed`).
>
> > Your view is certainly interesting and probably right (I've thought
> > about it too), but first I would like to make sure the whole system is
> > in the right state/point.
> > According to the above data, and after the update/upgrade I did, all
> > packages are the to right  "stretch-backports" point/state ?
> > Or I should take action to set it up properly ? Is it better to leave
> > from "stretch-backports" ?
> >
> > Going from Debian GNU/Linux 9 (stretch) to Debina GNU/Linux 10 (buster)
> > (without format) how risky can it be?
> >
> Upgrading from 9 to 10 should be straight forward. In my case I ensured
> that
> my system is up to date with the main repositories, that I had enough
> free space
> and then modified the sources.list to buster repos and did the apt
> dist-upgrade.
> That being said I didnt have any packages installed manually or on hold
> (`apt-mark showhold`).
>
> Check for a very extensive guide here
>
> https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/release-notes/ch-upgrading.en.html
>
> >
> > On 2/17/20 6:41 PM, didier.gaumet@gmail.com wrote:
> >> - Backports repository is not intended as an ordinary repo from which
> > you can install all the packages.Its purpose is to let the user install
> > selected packages for which there is a need for a more recent version
> > (option -t). Installing all packages from backports may lead to
> > problems.
> >
> > You are absolutely right! That's exactly how I started. At first I
> > wanted to put the "stretch-backports" sources, to install specific
> > packages from them ( specifically only the `nautilus-nextcloud` package
> > ), but then I changed my mind and played a lot more risky, because in
> > the end I updated my whole system.
> >
> >
> > On 2/17/20 6:41 PM, didier.gaumet@gmail.com wrote:
> >> - By default your ordinary repo has a 500 priority and backports a 100
> > priority: when you set up a 500 priority for backports, it means that
> > that backports has priority over your ordinary repo, because the
> > version
> > numbers are higher.
> >
> > Thank you so much for explaining the priorities - I understood that
> > too.
> > The reason I was thinking of finally updating my entire system, is
> > because I thought that the `nautilus-nextcloud` package it would
> > probably affect the whole in general GNOME, that is why I suppose that
> > maybe they were more correct a more complete migration.
> >
>
> The packages in the backports in general should work with the ones
> installed
> from the stable repos. You can use them to selectively install what you
> need
> from there.
>
> >
> > On 2/17/20 6:41 PM, didier.gaumet@gmail.com wrote:
> >> - If your ordinary (Oldstable or Stretch, in your case) repo line (or
> > sources.list.d file) in sources.list mentions "contrib non-free" it is
> > preferable to mention it too for the backports line. Then, generally,
> > if
> > you use a backports kernel, you will want to use also the backports
> > firmwares instead of the ordinary ones.
> >
> >
> > Thank you for your answer. About "backports firmwares" what should I
> > do?
> > What do you have to recommend me?
> > ( I didn't know that at all )
> >
> >
> >
> > Finally, a very important question:
> > Can I go back to where I was before the update ( with only stretch
> > source ) ?
>
> You should definitely be able to do this since the `apt upgrade` command
> you
> ran ended without any errors (your system is not broken anyhow).
>
> > I mention this because the official documentation itself (and you)
> > states that you do not recommend what I did.
> >
> > There is a way to "I pull a rope" and go back to my sturdy/robust port
> > of stretch repositories/resources ?
>
> Simply revert the changes sources (apt edit-sources) and
> `apt update && apt upgrade`
>
> >
> >
> > List installed backports :
> > dpkg-query -W | grep '~bpo' : https://pastebin.com/raw/UXLKrKvA
> >
> > systemctl status of `gnome` and `graphical.target` ( if you find it
> > inderest ) : https://pastebin.com/raw/1WLe87mJ
>
> ---
> Regards,
> Nektarios Katakis
>
>

-- 
*David Anthony*

Church Service Missionary
33 Centerville Commons Way
Centerville, UT 84014
Cell-801-360-4 <801-709-9430>950

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#219255

On Tue, 18 Feb 2020 18:33:08 -0700
David Anthony <david.fosdick.anthony@gmail.com> wrote:

> Sorry to change the subject, however,

Please do not hijack threads. It is rude. It also reduces the chances
of people reading your request. Please start a new thread.

-- 
Does anybody read signatures any more?

https://charlescurley.com
https://charlescurley.com/blog/

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#219263

Le mardi 18 février 2020 14:50:04 UTC+1, Nektarios Katakis a écrit :
> Στις 2020-02-18 12:41, Anastasios Lisgaras έγραψε:
[...]
[...]
> > Thank you for your answer. About "backports firmwares" what should I 
> > do?
> > What do you have to recommend me?
> > ( I didn't know that at all )

cf https://wiki.debian.org/Firmware

I think that the only firmwares installed are those you installed yourself manually (if any), no one is automatically pulled by default.
as root:
# aptitude search firmware
would display most of the firmwares (it's a search by names containing 'firmware' and some firmwares do not contain 'firmware' in their name). The status 'ii' means a firmware is installed. 

What I meant previously is that it is preferable to have a firmware (related to a hardware) that is coherent with the driver for this hardware included in the kernel. So if you have a hardware that needs a firmware and you use a Backports kernel, it is probably preferable to install the Backports version of the needed firmware. 

> > Finally, a very important question:
> > Can I go back to where I was before the update ( with only stretch
> > source ) ?
> 
> You should definitely be able to do this since the `apt upgrade` command 
> you
> ran ended without any errors (your system is not broken anyhow).
> 
> > I mention this because the official documentation itself (and you)
> > states that you do not recommend what I did.
> > 
> > There is a way to "I pull a rope" and go back to my sturdy/robust port
> > of stretch repositories/resources ?
> 
> Simply revert the changes sources (apt edit-sources) and
> `apt update && apt upgrade`
[...]

I do not think this will do the trick: if I recall correctly, it will end up with Backports packages marked something like 'local' or 'obsolete' without being downgraded to their Strech version. 

The best solution would probably to do a fresh install.
But if you want to take the chance, here is a trick to downgrade:
 https://wiki.debian.org/SystemDowngrade

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#219265 — Re: Debian GNU/Linux 9 (stretch) was broken after upgraded from stretch-backports.

Στις 2020-02-19 10:38, didier.gaumet@gmail.com έγραψε:
> Le mardi 18 février 2020 14:50:04 UTC+1, Nektarios Katakis a écrit :
>> Στις 2020-02-18 12:41, Anastasios Lisgaras έγραψε:
> [...]
> [...]
>> > Thank you for your answer. About "backports firmwares" what should I
>> > do?
>> > What do you have to recommend me?
>> > ( I didn't know that at all )
> 
> cf https://wiki.debian.org/Firmware
> 
> I think that the only firmwares installed are those you installed
> yourself manually (if any), no one is automatically pulled by default.
> as root:
> # aptitude search firmware
> would display most of the firmwares (it's a search by names containing
> 'firmware' and some firmwares do not contain 'firmware' in their
> name). The status 'ii' means a firmware is installed.
> 
> What I meant previously is that it is preferable to have a firmware
> (related to a hardware) that is coherent with the driver for this
> hardware included in the kernel. So if you have a hardware that needs
> a firmware and you use a Backports kernel, it is probably preferable
> to install the Backports version of the needed firmware.
> 
>> > Finally, a very important question:
>> > Can I go back to where I was before the update ( with only stretch
>> > source ) ?
>> 
>> You should definitely be able to do this since the `apt upgrade` 
>> command
>> you
>> ran ended without any errors (your system is not broken anyhow).
>> 
>> > I mention this because the official documentation itself (and you)
>> > states that you do not recommend what I did.
>> >
>> > There is a way to "I pull a rope" and go back to my sturdy/robust port
>> > of stretch repositories/resources ?
>> 
>> Simply revert the changes sources (apt edit-sources) and
>> `apt update && apt upgrade`
> [...]
> 
> I do not think this will do the trick: if I recall correctly, it will
> end up with Backports packages marked something like 'local' or
> 'obsolete' without being downgraded to their Strech version.
> 
> The best solution would probably to do a fresh install.
> But if you want to take the chance, here is a trick to downgrade:
>  https://wiki.debian.org/SystemDowngrade

Interesting I thought you could downgrade with the package manager.
from the looks of it you end up with an unstable system. I had removed
repos in the past and the packages were removed automatically but I 
guess
I was lucky!

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#219266

[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw

Quoting Nektarios Katakis (2020-02-19 12:16:20)
> Interesting I thought you could downgrade with the package manager. 
> from the looks of it you end up with an unstable system. I had removed 
> repos in the past and the packages were removed automatically but I 
> guess I was lucky!

You _can_ downgrade with apt-based package managers, but it is 
unsupported, so indeed when it works you should feel lucky :-)


 - Jonas

-- 
 * Jonas Smedegaard - idealist & Internet-arkitekt
 * Tlf.: +45 40843136  Website: http://dr.jones.dk/

 [x] quote me freely  [ ] ask before reusing  [ ] keep private

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#219270

On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 02:38:50AM -0800, didier.gaumet@gmail.com wrote:
> cf https://wiki.debian.org/Firmware
> 
> I think that the only firmwares installed are those you installed yourself manually (if any), no one is automatically pulled by default.

It depends on what firmware packages are available at installation
time, which in turn depends greatly on which installation image
you use.

The netinst and DVD images that are linked from the Debian web site
do not include any non-free firmware.  But there are unofficial netinst
images which *do* include the non-free firmware.  If you use one of
those, you're very likely to get some non-free firmware installed
for you automatically, if your computer has any devices which want it.

Almost all new computers do.  Laptops especially.

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#219268

On 2020-02-18 13:45, Nektarios Katakis wrote:

> Upgrading from 9 to 10 should be straight forward.

wasn't there something a bit dramatic about having to migrate the 
postgresql database ?

mick

-- 
Key ID    4BFEBB31

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#219272

On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 12:11:14PM +0000, mick crane wrote:
> On 2020-02-18 13:45, Nektarios Katakis wrote:
> 
> > Upgrading from 9 to 10 should be straight forward.
> 
> wasn't there something a bit dramatic about having to migrate the postgresql
> database ?

Not any more so than in every other upgrade.

Look for a section labelled something like "Default clusters and upgrading"
in /usr/share/doc/postgresql-*/README.Debian.gz and follow the
instructions.

Near as I can tell, that same section of that same file has been present
in every version of the Postgresql server packages going back to wheezy
and probably beyond, with the package/cluster versions updated for
each release.

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#219319

On 2/19/20 8:14 PM, Anastasios Lisgaras wrote:
> 
> On 2/18/20 3:45 PM, Nektarios Katakis wrote:
>> If you check the output of `systemctl status graphical.target` you ll see
>> it s a systemd target and whether it s activated or not. The related file
>> in `/lib/systemd/system/graphical.target` will also point you to related/
>> needed services for the graphical target.
>>
>> You can start from there and check if those targets/services are enabled.
>> Also if they failed in your last boot (`systemctl list-units
>> --state=failed`).
> 
> You can see the output of "systemctl status graphical.target" here:
> https://pastebin.com/raw/hSaqVzJA - Is `inactive (dead)`.
> 
> * ls -alh /lib/systemd/system/
> https://pastebin.com/raw/mLHBS6SP
> 
> * cat /lib/systemd/system/graphical.target
> https://pastebin.com/raw/p13JuV5C
> 
> * systemctl list-units --state=failed
> https://pastebin.com/raw/2H3MXBFN
> 
> 
> On 2/18/20 3:45 PM, Nektarios Katakis wrote:
>> Upgrading from 9 to 10 should be straight forward. In my case I ensured
>> that
>> my system is up to date with the main repositories, that I had enough
>> free space
>> and then modified the sources.list to buster repos and did the apt
>> dist-upgrade.
>> That being said I didnt have any packages installed manually or on hold
>> (`apt-mark showhold`).
>>
>> Check for a very extensive guide here
>> https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/release-notes/ch-upgrading.en.html
> 
> To be honest I thought exactly the same, but in the end I didn't,
> because I saw this very detailed guide and didn't have the time to read
> it all, so I thought the steps and process were ultimately much longer
> and risky if you don't follow the right steps..
> Anyway, it is amazing that you are telling me that from your own
> experience, that upgrading process is just so simple! Thank you!
> 
> On 2/18/20 3:45 PM, Nektarios Katakis wrote:
>> You should definitely be able to do this since the `apt upgrade` command
>> you
>> ran ended without any errors (your system is not broken anyhow).
>>
>> [...]
>>
>> Simply revert the changes sources (apt edit-sources) and
>> `apt update && apt upgrade`
> 
> Thank you for your answer, but just now I read this :
> https://wiki.debian.org/SystemDowngrade
> **Downgrade it isn't supported**
> 
> So the only suggested way to go now is to go ahead?
> 
> 
> 
> On 2/19/20 12:38 PM, didier.gaumet@gmail.com wrote:
>> cf https://wiki.debian.org/Firmware
>>
>> I think that the only firmwares installed are those you installed
>> yourself manually (if any), no one is automatically pulled by default.
>> as root:
>> # aptitude search firmware
>> would display most of the firmwares (it's a search by names containing
>> 'firmware' and some firmwares do not contain 'firmware' in their
>> name). The status 'ii' means a firmware is installed.
>>
>> What I meant previously is that it is preferable to have a firmware
>> (related to a hardware) that is coherent with the driver for this
>> hardware included in the kernel. So if you have a hardware that
>> needs a firmware and you use a Backports kernel, it is probably
>> preferable to install the Backports version of the needed firmware.
> 
> 
> Of course you are right, but so far I have not (remembered) ever
> installed any particular firware on my desktop.
> (But it might be - but I didn't know). How do I see if my hardware needs
> a particular firmware to work properly?
> 
> 
> * 337 packages are installed from the backports :
> apt list --installed : https://termbin.com/axej
> 
> * About the firmware because I don't know how to check it ( but on the
> desktop especially i don't think i have something extra installed )
> apt search firmware : https://pastebin.com/raw/KAQkvSGH
> apt list --installed | grep firmware : https://pastebin.com/raw/4cxjRy6t
> 
> [....]
> 
> On 2/19/20 12:38 PM, didier.gaumet@gmail.com wrote:
>> The best solution would probably to do a fresh install.
> 
> Really ; Is there any sure way to get away from it and so that I have a
> proper system installed?
> So, now the only way is to format my desktop and install the Debian
> GNU/Linux from the beginning??? 0.0 :(
> 
> 
> On 2/19/20 3:41 PM, Greg Wooledge wrote:
>> It depends on what firmware packages are available at installation
>> time, which in turn depends greatly on which installation image
>> you use.
>>
>> The netinst and DVD images that are linked from the Debian web site
>> do not include any non-free firmware.  But there are unofficial netinst
>> images which *do* include the non-free firmware.  If you use one of
>> those, you're very likely to get some non-free firmware installed
>> for you automatically, if your computer has any devices which want it.
>>
>> Almost all new computers do.  Laptops especially.
> 
> Understood. I didn't know that. I only use the official installation
> guides/installers.
> Not only new laptops are needed closed firmware, but also my old laptop
> (the one I'm writing to you now) - a *HP Pavilio dv5 - 1145ev* -
> after the initial installation of the Debian GNU/Linux I need to install
> a closed (firmware) driver to "see" the wireless network card.
> 
> 
> Thank you,
> 

I welcome the community again,

Today something unexpected and crazy happened, my desktop computer 
started and opened without any problem (!) 0.0
Incredible and crazy! I can not believe it! To believe me, I am 
uploading you a desktop screenshot from my GNOME desktop environment!
https://i.imgur.com/Bnt4A7A.png

What do you have to say about it? How did it happen?
Can you suggest me to do something now that I have a graphical interface?

I am writing this email from this desktop computer, but now I'm afraid 
to close it because I'm afraid it won't open again in GNOME graphical 
environment.

P.S. : These days (waiting for your help) I had unplugged it from the 
mains. I don't think it plays a role or means something, but I mention it.


Thank you,
Tasos

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#219343

Le samedi 22 février 2020 11:50:05 UTC+1, Anastasios Lisgaras a écrit :
> On 2/19/20 8:14 PM, Anastasios Lisgaras wrote:

[...]
> > How do I see if my hardware needs
> > a particular firmware to work properly?

For the hardware already known to the kernel, the later will try to load a firmware when needed. So a search of the 'firmware" word in the kernel logs would show either succeeded or failed attempts:

didier@hp-notebook14:~$ sudo dmesg | grep -i firmware
[sudo] Mot de passe de didier : 
[    0.472650] Spectre V2 : Enabling Restricted Speculation for firmware calls
[    0.572837] ACPI: [Firmware Bug]: BIOS _OSI(Linux) query ignored
[    2.852914] i915 0000:00:02.0: firmware: direct-loading firmware i915/kbl_dmc_ver1_04.bin
[    2.853308] [drm] Finished loading DMC firmware i915/kbl_dmc_ver1_04.bin (v1.4)
[    3.336861] psmouse serio1: elantech: assuming hardware version 4 (with firmware version 0x5d4f01)
[    6.994202] bluetooth hci0: firmware: direct-loading firmware rtl_bt/rtl8821c_fw.bin
[    6.994260] bluetooth hci0: firmware: direct-loading firmware rtl_bt/rtl8821c_config.bin
[    8.628853] r8169 0000:01:00.0: firmware: direct-loading firmware rtl_nic/rtl8168h-2.fw
[10603.022395] (NULL device *): firmware: direct-loading firmware rtl_bt/rtl8821c_fw.bin
[10603.022420] (NULL device *): firmware: direct-loading firmware rtl_bt/rtl8821c_config.bin
[10603.022601] (NULL device *): firmware: direct-loading firmware i915/kbl_dmc_ver1_04.bin
[11124.667299] (NULL device *): firmware: direct-loading firmware i915/kbl_dmc_ver1_04.bin
[11125.905593] bluetooth hci0: firmware: direct-loading firmware rtl_bt/rtl8821c_fw.bin
[11125.905642] bluetooth hci0: firmware: direct-loading firmware rtl_bt/rtl8821c_config.bin

then if a firmware fails to load, you determine which package to install.

for example, here, i915 (intel graphic card with i915 module driver) needs a firmware. If succeeds to load, but if it was not the case:

didier@hp-notebook14:~$ apt-file search kbl_dmc_ver1_04.bin
firmware-misc-nonfree: /lib/firmware/i915/kbl_dmc_ver1_04.bin

and then you install the firmware-misc-nonfree package

[...] 
> > Really ; Is there any sure way to get away from it and so that I have a
> > proper system installed?
> > So, now the only way is to format my desktop and install the Debian
> > GNU/Linux from the beginning??? 0.0 :(
[...]

- *sure*: I don't think so
- a bit more risky: the previous link I gave:
 https://wiki.debian.org/SystemDowngrade

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#219345

On 2/22/20 8:05 PM, didier.gaumet@gmail.com wrote:
> Le samedi 22 février 2020 11:50:05 UTC+1, Anastasios Lisgaras a écrit :
> 
> For the hardware already known to the kernel, the later will try to load a firmware when needed. So a search of the 'firmware" word in the kernel logs would show either succeeded or failed attempts:
> 
> didier@hp-notebook14:~$ sudo dmesg | grep -i firmware
> [...]

Thanks a lot for describing the above procedure.
I suppose this procedure is very important after every distribution 
installation, isn't it?

In my case, I have the following results:

:~# dmesg | grep -i firmware
[    3.960306] radeon 0000:01:00.0: firmware: direct-loading firmware 
radeon/oland_pfp.bin
[    3.961037] radeon 0000:01:00.0: firmware: direct-loading firmware 
radeon/oland_me.bin
[    3.961648] radeon 0000:01:00.0: firmware: direct-loading firmware 
radeon/oland_ce.bin
[    3.961886] radeon 0000:01:00.0: firmware: direct-loading firmware 
radeon/oland_rlc.bin
[    3.962223] radeon 0000:01:00.0: firmware: direct-loading firmware 
radeon/oland_mc.bin
[    3.962754] radeon 0000:01:00.0: firmware: direct-loading firmware 
radeon/oland_smc.bin
[    3.972636] radeon 0000:01:00.0: firmware: direct-loading firmware 
radeon/TAHITI_uvd.bin
[    3.973251] radeon 0000:01:00.0: firmware: direct-loading firmware 
radeon/TAHITI_vce.bin
[    3.973995] [drm] Found VCE firmware/feedback version 50.0.1 / 17!
[    8.426598] r8169 0000:0a:00.0: firmware: direct-loading firmware 
rtl_nic/rtl8168f-1.fw
[14666.667585] ACPI: [Firmware Bug]: BIOS _OSI(Linux) query ignored

I think all is well, isn't it?
Because the last line worries me a little.
 > [14666.667585] ACPI: [Firmware Bug]: BIOS _OSI(Linux) query ignored


> 
 > [...]
 >
> - *sure*: I don't think so
> - a bit more risky: the previous link I gave:
>   https://wiki.debian.org/SystemDowngrade
> 

Instead I doing system downgrade to go back,  what do you say to i did 
upgrade and go ahead to the Debian version 10 (codename buster) ?
Maybe it makes things worse?

Let's try what Nektarios suggested in a previous e-mail, to I login from 
terminal ( Alt + F4 ) and uninstall completely and then reinstall the 
GNOME desktop environment ??


P.S.: Anyway it's crazy that I'm typing this message *from this computer 
right now*. I'm afraid to shutting down because maybe it doesn't load my 
GNOME desktop environment again. *Doesn't this make you look crazy*?
10 times not loading the GNOME environment and and the last one to load 
it ?

Thank you for your time.
-- 
Kind regards,
Tasos

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#219348

Le samedi 22 février 2020 20:30:04 UTC+1, Anastasios Lisgaras a écrit :
[...]
> I think all is well, isn't it?
> Because the last line worries me a little.
>  > [14666.667585] ACPI: [Firmware Bug]: BIOS _OSI(Linux) query ignored

Yes, all the needed firmwares seem to be present.
Explanation of the 'bug' above is here:
 https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=69921 

> Instead I doing system downgrade to go back,  what do you say to i did 
> upgrade and go ahead to the Debian version 10 (codename buster) ?
> Maybe it makes things worse?
> 
> Let's try what Nektarios suggested in a previous e-mail, to I login from 
> terminal ( Alt + F4 ) and uninstall completely and then reinstall the 
> GNOME desktop environment ??
[...]

What I suppose is that a Debian upgrade from your Stretch-Backports to Buster seems to me relatively safe, minus the fact that installing all backports packages might have broken the system, even slightly. So desinstalling and reinstalling Gnome might not be sufficent. And thus a fresh install of Buster would probably be safer.   
-

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#219351

On 2/22/20 11:45 PM, didier.gaumet@gmail.com wrote:
> Le samedi 22 février 2020 20:30:04 UTC+1, Anastasios Lisgaras a écrit :
> Yes, all the needed firmwares seem to be present.
> Explanation of the 'bug' above is here:
>   https://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=69921

Nice, thank you for the inform.


> What I suppose is that a Debian upgrade from your Stretch-Backports to Buster seems to me relatively safe, minus the fact that installing all backports packages might have broken the system, even slightly. So desinstalling and reinstalling Gnome might not be sufficent. And thus a fresh install of Buster would probably be safer.
> -

Alright, now I understand the reason and I could agree with you or at 
least understand your concerns..
Sure I would prefer a re-installation, but the migration of my system 
exactly as it is again.. in this case it's a "heavy" process for me.
But I will definitely do it - sooner or later.

I don't want to tire you out, but I would love to learn my operating 
system thanks to this misfortune. If they were in my position a system 
administrator or a software developer or a hacker about Debian 
GNU/Linux, what checks would he do to fix it ?

Certainly ( format ) reinstalling the entire operating system would 
solve the problem. But this way is a little childish, isn't it?

In my system, something is wrong. Surely something is not working 
properly. But what is this? Can't find what exactly is to blame?
Can't find what exactly is responsible for that?

Thank really you very much!

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#219357

Le dimanche 23 février 2020 00:40:05 UTC+1, Anastasios Lisgaras a écrit :
[...]
> I don't want to tire you out, but I would love to learn my operating 
> system thanks to this misfortune. If they were in my position a system 
> administrator or a software developer or a hacker about Debian 
> GNU/Linux, what checks would he do to fix it ?

I am no Debian {developer|expert|guru} and others on this list are far knowledgeable than me, so take my words with a grain of salt:
 Your system now is Stretch with all backports versions of the installed packages. It is potentially broken. But I cannot sustain it is broken: maybe you are lucky or there was no cause of alarm in your particular case. A downgrade would certainly aggravate the chances of problems.

But to be pragmatic, if you do not observe problems now, perhaps you never will, either because there are no problems or because you cannot detect them because they have no impact on your activity.

Perhaps you can look at:
 https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ch02.en.html#_recovery_from_a_broken_system
 https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/securing-debian-howto/ch-after-compromise.en.html#s11.4 (this for security more than reliabilty but it could be of interest, I do not know)

> Certainly ( format ) reinstalling the entire operating system would 
> solve the problem. But this way is a little childish, isn't it?
>
> In my system, something is wrong. Surely something is not working 
> properly. But what is this? Can't find what exactly is to blame?
> Can't find what exactly is responsible for that?
> 
> Thank really you very much!

I would agree that always reinstalling an OS instead of fixing a problem that is well identified when there is a a well known solution is not the best action.

Conversely, I suppose it is a good option to reinstall a broken or compromised OS if you do not know exactly what the damages are and how you can repair them.

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