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Groups > linux.debian.user > #180791 > unrolled thread
| Started by | RavenLX <ravenlx@sitesplace.net> |
|---|---|
| First post | 2017-05-07 00:00 +0200 |
| Last post | 2017-05-08 17:40 +0200 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 57 — 21 participants |
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How stable is the frozen stretch? RavenLX <ravenlx@sitesplace.net> - 2017-05-07 00:00 +0200
Re: How stable is the frozen stretch? Fungi4All <fungilife@protonmail.com> - 2017-05-07 00:40 +0200
Re: How stable is the frozen stretch? RavenLX <ravenlx@sitesplace.net> - 2017-05-07 01:10 +0200
Re: How stable is the frozen stretch? Michael Milliman <michael.e.milliman@gmail.com> - 2017-05-07 00:50 +0200
Re: How stable is the frozen stretch? RavenLX <ravenlx@sitesplace.net> - 2017-05-07 01:50 +0200
Re: How stable is the frozen stretch? Michael Milliman <michael.e.milliman@gmail.com> - 2017-05-07 02:20 +0200
Re: How stable is the frozen stretch? RavenLX <ravenlx@sitesplace.net> - 2017-05-07 04:30 +0200
Re: How stable is the frozen stretch? Michael Milliman <michael.e.milliman@gmail.com> - 2017-05-07 05:50 +0200
Re: How stable is the frozen stretch? Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-05-08 14:50 +0200
Re: How stable is the frozen stretch? Cindy-Sue Causey <butterflybytes@gmail.com> - 2017-05-08 00:40 +0200
Re: How stable is the frozen stretch? RavenLX <ravenlx@sitesplace.net> - 2017-05-07 23:30 +0200
Re: How stable is the frozen stretch? Michael Milliman <michael.e.milliman@gmail.com> - 2017-05-08 01:50 +0200
Re: How stable is the frozen stretch? Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-05-08 13:20 +0200
Re: How stable is the frozen stretch? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-05-08 15:50 +0200
Re: How stable is the frozen stretch? Sven Hartge <sven@svenhartge.de> - 2017-05-08 17:10 +0200
Re: How stable is the frozen stretch? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-05-08 21:20 +0200
Re: How stable is the frozen stretch? songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2017-05-08 13:30 +0200
Re: How stable is the frozen stretch? RavenLX <ravenlx@sitesplace.net> - 2017-05-09 18:10 +0200
Re: How stable is the frozen stretch? songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2017-05-10 15:10 +0200
Re: How stable is the frozen stretch? Michael Milliman <michael.e.milliman@gmail.com> - 2017-05-10 15:20 +0200
Re: How stable is the frozen stretch? RavenLX <ravenlx@sitesplace.net> - 2017-05-13 14:20 +0200
Re: How stable is the frozen stretch? RavenLX <ravenlx@sitesplace.net> - 2017-05-13 14:20 +0200
Re: How stable is the frozen stretch? songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2017-05-13 18:10 +0200
Re: How stable is the frozen stretch? Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2017-05-13 18:50 +0200
Re: How stable is the frozen stretch? RavenLX <ravenlx@sitesplace.net> - 2017-05-14 03:00 +0200
Re: How stable is the frozen stretch? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2017-05-14 09:50 +0200
Re: How stable is the frozen stretch? Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2017-05-14 12:00 +0200
Re: How stable is the frozen stretch? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-05-14 13:50 +0200
Re: How stable is the frozen stretch? Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2017-05-14 16:00 +0200
Re: How stable is the frozen stretch? Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> - 2017-05-14 16:20 +0200
Re: How stable is the frozen stretch? deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2017-05-15 21:10 +0200
Re: How stable is the frozen stretch? Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2017-05-16 13:20 +0200
Re: How stable is the frozen stretch? Thanatos Incarnate <thanatosincarnate@openmailbox.org> - 2017-05-16 13:30 +0200
Re: How stable is the frozen stretch? Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2017-05-16 16:00 +0200
Re: How stable is the frozen stretch? SDA <marathon.durandal@gmail.com> - 2017-05-17 05:10 +0200
Re: How stable is the frozen stretch? Ric Moore <wayward4now@gmail.com> - 2017-05-17 05:30 +0200
Re: How stable is the frozen stretch? Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2017-05-17 12:30 +0200
Re: How stable is the frozen stretch? RavenLX <ravenlx@sitesplace.net> - 2017-05-17 15:30 +0200
Re: How stable is the frozen stretch? deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2017-05-16 20:20 +0200
Re: How stable is the frozen stretch? Fungi4All <fungilife@protonmail.com> - 2017-05-17 00:30 +0200
Re: How stable is the frozen stretch? deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> - 2017-05-17 08:10 +0200
Re: How stable is the frozen stretch? Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-05-17 14:30 +0200
Re: How stable is the frozen stretch? RavenLX <ravenlx@sitesplace.net> - 2017-05-17 15:20 +0200
Re: How stable is the frozen stretch? G <gpdsb@mailbox.org> - 2017-05-17 17:00 +0200
Re: How stable is the frozen stretch? Greg Wooledge <wooledg@eeg.ccf.org> - 2017-05-17 17:10 +0200
Re: How stable is the frozen stretch? Darac Marjal <mailinglist@darac.org.uk> - 2017-05-17 18:10 +0200
Re: How stable is the frozen stretch? Lisi Reisz <lisi.reisz@gmail.com> - 2017-05-17 18:50 +0200
Re: How stable is the frozen stretch? RavenLX <ravenlx@sitesplace.net> - 2017-05-17 15:20 +0200
Re: How stable is the frozen stretch? Darac Marjal <mailinglist@darac.org.uk> - 2017-05-16 13:30 +0200
Re: How stable is the frozen stretch? Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2017-05-16 16:00 +0200
Re: How stable is the frozen stretch? David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> - 2017-05-16 18:40 +0200
Re: How stable is the frozen stretch? Felix Miata <mrmazda@earthlink.net> - 2017-05-17 00:10 +0200
Re: How stable is the frozen stretch? Joe <joe@jretrading.com> - 2017-05-14 14:10 +0200
Re: How stable is the frozen stretch? Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> - 2017-05-14 16:00 +0200
Re: How stable is the frozen stretch? Fungi4All <fungilife@protonmail.com> - 2017-05-11 00:20 +0200
Re: How stable is the frozen stretch? kamaraju kusumanchi <raju.mailinglists@gmail.com> - 2017-05-13 08:00 +0200
Re: How stable is the frozen stretch? Jonathan Dowland <jmtd@debian.org> - 2017-05-08 17:40 +0200
Page 2 of 3 — ← Prev page 1 [2] 3 Next page →
| From | RavenLX <ravenlx@sitesplace.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-05-13 14:20 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <tGEbD-3vw-9@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #180910 |
On 05/10/2017 09:19 AM, Michael Milliman wrote: > On 05/10/2017 06:57 AM, songbird wrote: > [...] >> if you wanted to you could have one partition for >> booting the stable distribution and only update that >> when you have a good time for that. >> >> the thing with these setups is that in Debian you >> don't have to get automatic updates if you don't want >> them so you know when the system is being upgraded. >> > IMHO, this is a most excellent way of doing things, given that time is > available to maintain such a system. This way, you have the best of all > worlds. And can incorporate newer packages and versions as they are > available and tested on your system into your working system. "given that time is available to maintain such a system". That's where I seem to fall short. Time. And by the time I get done with my regular work (which lately I've been swamped with), I haven't really had the time to do any experimenting even with the Stretch virtual machine I've created (see my other longer reply on this). For my situation, dual boot isn't a good trade-off. For others, it's the best way to go. Different situations call for different configurations. Virtual machines work best for my situation. In fact, it was working with virtual machine versions of Linux that got me convinced (rather quickly, I might add) to switch from Windows to a GNU/Linux distro in the first place! That was almost 4.5 years ago and I have no intention of leaving! :) I used to distro-hop but I think I am going to stick with Debian now. I have to use Ubuntu at work, as it is so at least it's somewhat familiar.
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| From | RavenLX <ravenlx@sitesplace.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-05-13 14:20 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <tGEbD-3vw-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #180908 |
On 05/10/2017 07:57 AM, songbird wrote: > you can set up several partitions with different > levels of fun if you want. My spare laptop has a 250 GB HD and the laptop I use all the time has a 600 GB HD. I already have both partitioned for *one* OS - Debian 8. I really don't want to go through repartitioning or reinstalling the whole thing because I have a quite a lot of programs (some of which I have to use for a jobs) and configurations which take a long time to put together. I simply don't have the time right now because of work and other commitments. Also I hate dual-booting. I normally forget the other OS is there and it just sets there just taking up HD space instead. What I did was updated a Debian 8 Virtual Machine (on VirtualBox). I have it but guess what? I haven't felt up to (nor had the time to) do anything with it since. I may end up having to wait a couple months. (Serves me right getting too curious!) Having dual boot systems has it's advantages and disadvantages. But in my particular case, I've found virtual machines to be more to my liking as they don't require me to dual boot. Also on the "other OS" I would still have emails, etc in that version's thunderbird and it would be a hassle to keep having to import them all to the "main" OS, and I don't like having to remember (and always forgetting) to pop in a USB stick to save/get emails. My hardware pretty much has to stick to one OS and the spare laptop has to be identical so I can just plop in the backed up files (I at least remember out of habit to backup frequently) and get to work fast (which may be needed at any time). This is why virtual machines come in so handy. I can clone one and go do whatever it is I want/need to do. If it breaks, I can delete the machine, clone another from the base and I'm good to go. As for the "base" virtual machines, I keep the base VMs updated once a week and then condense, export and back them up. This way I have something ready to go on the spare laptop (which doesn't contain any data files that change regularly, just the programs needed to do the work I need to do, and data that is almost never changing). I've found this setup to work best for me. > the thing with these setups is that in Debian you > don't have to get automatic updates if you don't want > them so you know when the system is being upgraded. I do upgrades once a week, so that would be giving me yet another system to upgrade and it would mean having to reboot and go into the other OS to do it. Call me lazy, but I already have quite a few systems to update every week now (2 laptops, an android phone, and 5 (so far) virtual machines (which need to stay updated and ready to clone at any time for use with development and testing). My computer is several years old so it's not the fastest at rebooting (I think the VMs boot much faster). What I'll do is work in the virtual machine (when I have time that is) and then decide from there. Who knows, at the rate it's taking me to get around to doing any experimenting, by that time Stretch may have gone stable. :-P
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| From | songbird <songbird@anthive.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-05-13 18:10 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <tGHMd-5Vn-9@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #180974 |
RavenLX wrote: > On 05/10/2017 07:57 AM, songbird wrote: >> you can set up several partitions with different >> levels of fun if you want. > > My spare laptop has a 250 GB HD and the laptop I use all the time has a > 600 GB HD. I already have both partitioned for *one* OS - Debian 8. I > really don't want to go through repartitioning or reinstalling the whole > thing because I have a quite a lot of programs (some of which I have to > use for a jobs) and configurations which take a long time to put > together. I simply don't have the time right now because of work and > other commitments. sure, it is all about choice. i think from what you write that using stable makes the most sense. > Also I hate dual-booting. I normally forget the other OS is there and it > just sets there just taking up HD space instead. when i boot the machine the grub menu shows it (with a delay so that if i choose nothing it will boot into the default setup). i ignore it for a few months at a time then when i've used most programs and everything seems to be ok then i do choose to boot that other setup and update it then. > What I did was updated a Debian 8 Virtual Machine (on VirtualBox). I > have it but guess what? I haven't felt up to (nor had the time to) do > anything with it since. I may end up having to wait a couple months. > (Serves me right getting too curious!) > > Having dual boot systems has it's advantages and disadvantages. But in > my particular case, I've found virtual machines to be more to my liking > as they don't require me to dual boot. no problem with that. :) > Also on the "other OS" I would still have emails, etc in that version's > thunderbird and it would be a hassle to keep having to import them all > to the "main" OS, and I don't like having to remember (and always > forgetting) to pop in a USB stick to save/get emails. i use the other setup only as a backup so that if the main/default setup doesn't work at least i know i have a working comparison to go from. i don't usually keep everything in there (e-mails, usenet, etc.). > My hardware pretty much has to stick to one OS and the spare laptop has > to be identical so I can just plop in the backed up files (I at least > remember out of habit to backup frequently) and get to work fast (which > may be needed at any time). > > This is why virtual machines come in so handy. I can clone one and go do > whatever it is I want/need to do. If it breaks, I can delete the > machine, clone another from the base and I'm good to go. that sounds pretty good and similar enough to what i'm doing anyways. virtual machines have come along in more recent years compared to when i started out. > As for the "base" virtual machines, I keep the base VMs updated once a > week and then condense, export and back them up. This way I have > something ready to go on the spare laptop (which doesn't contain any > data files that change regularly, just the programs needed to do the > work I need to do, and data that is almost never changing). > > I've found this setup to work best for me. great. :) >> the thing with these setups is that in Debian you >> don't have to get automatic updates if you don't want >> them so you know when the system is being upgraded. > > I do upgrades once a week, so that would be giving me yet another system > to upgrade and it would mean having to reboot and go into the other OS > to do it. Call me lazy, but I already have quite a few systems to update > every week now (2 laptops, an android phone, and 5 (so far) virtual > machines (which need to stay updated and ready to clone at any time for > use with development and testing). My computer is several years old so > it's not the fastest at rebooting (I think the VMs boot much faster). > > What I'll do is work in the virtual machine (when I have time that is) > and then decide from there. Who knows, at the rate it's taking me to get > around to doing any experimenting, by that time Stretch may have gone > stable. :-P it may... seems to be coming along. songbird
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| From | Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-05-13 18:50 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <tGIoV-6bU-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #180974 |
On 05/13/2017 07:08 AM, RavenLX wrote: > [snip] > Also I hate dual-booting. I normally forget the other OS is there > and it just sets there just taking up HD space instead. > [snip] > > Having dual boot systems has it's advantages and disadvantages. But in > my particular case, I've found virtual machines to be more to my > liking as they don't require me to dual boot. > > Also on the "other OS" I would still have emails, etc in that > version's thunderbird and it would be a hassle to keep having to > import them all to the "main" OS, and I don't like having to remember > (and always forgetting) to pop in a USB stick to save/get emails. > [snip] I've had a loosely similar situation. I multi-boot diferent configurations of Debian 8 and 9 - at least 2 of each. I use SeaMonkey available at https://www.seamonkey-project.org/releases/ . I move between configurations sereral times a day. I have a solution which works for me. Although I know of purists who say "Don't do that" ;/ I suspect a similar a similar scheme should work with a VM. [I avoid VM's more than you avoid multi-boot ;] I have a partition whose label is "common". The relevant fstab entry is: LABEL=common /usr/local/common ext4 defaults 0 0 I invoke SeaMonkey with: /usr/local/common/seamonkey/seamonkey It looks for profiles.ini in: /home/richard/.mozilla/seamonkey The directory structure is richard@stretch-2nd:/usr/local/common$ tree -d -L 1 * from old stretch ├── Desktop └── Documents Misc notes mytemporary └── WordPress info seamonkey ├── chrome ├── components ├── defaults ├── dictionaries ├── extensions ├── icons ├── isp ├── profiles └── searchplugins 12 directories richard@stretch-2nd:/usr/local/common$
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| From | RavenLX <ravenlx@sitesplace.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-05-14 03:00 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <tGQ37-2Mp-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #180985 |
On 05/13/2017 12:40 PM, Richard Owlett wrote: > I have a partition whose label is "common". I could almost smack myself in the head. I had done that when I used to dual-boot Windows / Linux (now you can see why I'm not a fan of dual-boot, I guess! LOL!). I also used to dual boot SolydX and SolydK distributions. In my VMs, I do use the guest additions and have a shared directory (necessity for what I need to do as well). But that was one way I had shared data. However, I still balk at dual-booting (like you balk at VMs :) )
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| From | Joe <joe@jretrading.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-05-14 09:50 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <tGWrU-794-3@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #180991 |
On Sat, 13 May 2017 20:54:04 -0400 RavenLX <ravenlx@sitesplace.net> wrote: > On 05/13/2017 12:40 PM, Richard Owlett wrote: > > I have a partition whose label is "common". > > I could almost smack myself in the head. I had done that when I used > to dual-boot Windows / Linux (now you can see why I'm not a fan of > dual-boot, I guess! LOL!). I also used to dual boot SolydX and SolydK > distributions. > > In my VMs, I do use the guest additions and have a shared directory > (necessity for what I need to do as well). > > But that was one way I had shared data. > > However, I still balk at dual-booting (like you balk at VMs :) ) > Another option I've used for some years: a pocket-sized USB hard drive with an i386 all-modules installation, which boots on practically anything that isn't an ARM. -- Joe
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| From | Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-05-14 12:00 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <tGYtH-8oZ-17@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #180992 |
On 05/14/2017 02:40 AM, Joe wrote: > On Sat, 13 May 2017 20:54:04 -0400 > RavenLX <ravenlx@sitesplace.net> wrote: > >> On 05/13/2017 12:40 PM, Richard Owlett wrote: >>> I have a partition whose label is "common". >> >> I could almost smack myself in the head. I had done that when I used >> to dual-boot Windows / Linux (now you can see why I'm not a fan of >> dual-boot, I guess! LOL!). I also used to dual boot SolydX and SolydK >> distributions. >> >> In my VMs, I do use the guest additions and have a shared directory >> (necessity for what I need to do as well). >> >> But that was one way I had shared data. >> >> However, I still balk at dual-booting (like you balk at VMs :) ) >> > > Another option I've used for some years: a pocket-sized USB hard drive > with an i386 all-modules installation, which boots on practically > anything that isn't an ARM. > Can you clarify what you mean by the phrase "i386 all-modules installation"? TIA
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| From | David Wright <deblis@lionunicorn.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-05-14 13:50 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <tH0ca-13Y-15@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #180996 |
On Sun 14 May 2017 at 04:57:07 (-0500), Richard Owlett wrote: > On 05/14/2017 02:40 AM, Joe wrote: > >On Sat, 13 May 2017 20:54:04 -0400 > >RavenLX <ravenlx@sitesplace.net> wrote: > > > >>On 05/13/2017 12:40 PM, Richard Owlett wrote: > >>>I have a partition whose label is "common". > >> > >>I could almost smack myself in the head. I had done that when I used > >>to dual-boot Windows / Linux (now you can see why I'm not a fan of > >>dual-boot, I guess! LOL!). I also used to dual boot SolydX and SolydK > >>distributions. > >> > >>In my VMs, I do use the guest additions and have a shared directory > >>(necessity for what I need to do as well). > >> > >>But that was one way I had shared data. > >> > >>However, I still balk at dual-booting (like you balk at VMs :) ) > >> > > > >Another option I've used for some years: a pocket-sized USB hard drive > >with an i386 all-modules installation, which boots on practically > >anything that isn't an ARM. > > > > Can you clarify what you mean by the phrase "i386 all-modules installation"? Recall this d-i screen? ┌─────────────────────────┤ [?] Install the base system ├─────────────────────────┐ │ │ │ The primary function of an initrd is to allow the kernel to mount the root │ │ file system. It therefore needs to contain all drivers and supporting │ │ programs required to do that. │ │ │ │ A generic initrd is much larger than a targeted one and may even be so large │ │ that some boot loaders are unable to load it but has the advantage that it │ │ can be used to boot the target system on almost any hardware. With the │ │ smaller targeted initrd there is a very small chance that not all needed │ │ drivers are included. │ │ │ │ Drivers to include in the initrd: │ │ │ │ generic: include all available drivers │ │ targeted: only include drivers needed for this system │ │ │ │ <Go Back> │ │ │ └─────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘ Cheers, David.
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| From | Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-05-14 16:00 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <tH2dX-2fX-9@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #180997 |
On 05/14/2017 06:46 AM, David Wright wrote:
> On Sun 14 May 2017 at 04:57:07 (-0500), Richard Owlett wrote:
>> On 05/14/2017 02:40 AM, Joe wrote:
>>> On Sat, 13 May 2017 20:54:04 -0400
>>> RavenLX <ravenlx@sitesplace.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 05/13/2017 12:40 PM, Richard Owlett wrote:
>>>>> I have a partition whose label is "common".
>>>>
>>>> I could almost smack myself in the head. I had done that when I used
>>>> to dual-boot Windows / Linux (now you can see why I'm not a fan of
>>>> dual-boot, I guess! LOL!). I also used to dual boot SolydX and SolydK
>>>> distributions.
>>>>
>>>> In my VMs, I do use the guest additions and have a shared directory
>>>> (necessity for what I need to do as well).
>>>>
>>>> But that was one way I had shared data.
>>>>
>>>> However, I still balk at dual-booting (like you balk at VMs :) )
>>>>
>>>
>>> Another option I've used for some years: a pocket-sized USB hard drive
>>> with an i386 all-modules installation, which boots on practically
>>> anything that isn't an ARM.
>>>
>>
>> Can you clarify what you mean by the phrase "i386 all-modules installation"?
>
> Recall this d-i screen?
I do now ;)
Actually initrd and initramfs and were on my "google today" list.
That may that may explain something I've recently noticed.
As I experiment with many Debian versions and configurations I routinely
can multi-boot among a a half dozen (or more) choices.
As I've had some spectacularly failed installs, my practice is to
install Grub *ONLY* with the *FIRST* install. That way the default
action is to boot a known good system and the questionable one will
generally be last on the list (Grub insists on listing /dev/sda10 before
/dev/sda2).
What I'm investigating is an apparent anomaly:
1. My primary machine had Jessie installed first with Squeeze
and Stretch later. It happily will boot all.
2. I've set up a designated EXPERIMENTAL machine. Squeeze was
installed first and thus Grub is associated with it.
Wheezy and Jessie were installed without Grub.
Squeeze runs fine and will browse the web.
However, update-grub does not recognize either Wheezy or Jessie.
Also, a netinst of Stretch failed at the network setup step -
haven't done any trouble shooting yet.
Two questions:
1. Can I retroactively choose "include all available drivers" and
if so, how?
2. How much free space would be required? As I was already planning
on some Grub experiments, I had left 10 MB un-partitioned before
/dev/sda1. That can easily be expanded.
TIA
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| From | Brian <ad44@cityscape.co.uk> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-05-14 16:20 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <tH2xj-2BZ-9@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #181001 |
On Sun 14 May 2017 at 08:57:55 -0500, Richard Owlett wrote: > 1. Can I retroactively choose "include all available drivers" and > if so, how? https://wiki.debian.org/Initrd
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| From | deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-05-15 21:10 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <tHtxw-3GH-15@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #181001 |
Richard Owlett wrote: > On 05/14/2017 06:46 AM, David Wright wrote: >> On Sun 14 May 2017 at 04:57:07 (-0500), Richard Owlett wrote: >>> On 05/14/2017 02:40 AM, Joe wrote: >>>> On Sat, 13 May 2017 20:54:04 -0400 >>>> RavenLX <ravenlx@sitesplace.net> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On 05/13/2017 12:40 PM, Richard Owlett wrote: >>>>>> I have a partition whose label is "common". >>>>> >>>>> I could almost smack myself in the head. I had done that when I used >>>>> to dual-boot Windows / Linux (now you can see why I'm not a fan of >>>>> dual-boot, I guess! LOL!). I also used to dual boot SolydX and SolydK >>>>> distributions. >>>>> >>>>> In my VMs, I do use the guest additions and have a shared directory >>>>> (necessity for what I need to do as well). >>>>> >>>>> But that was one way I had shared data. >>>>> >>>>> However, I still balk at dual-booting (like you balk at VMs :) ) >>>>> >>>> >>>> Another option I've used for some years: a pocket-sized USB hard drive >>>> with an i386 all-modules installation, which boots on practically >>>> anything that isn't an ARM. >>>> >>> >>> Can you clarify what you mean by the phrase "i386 all-modules >>> installation"? >> >> Recall this d-i screen? > > I do now ;) > Actually initrd and initramfs and were on my "google today" list. > That may that may explain something I've recently noticed. > As I experiment with many Debian versions and configurations I routinely > can multi-boot among a a half dozen (or more) choices. > > As I've had some spectacularly failed installs, my practice is to > install Grub *ONLY* with the *FIRST* install. That way the default > action is to boot a known good system and the questionable one will > generally be last on the list (Grub insists on listing /dev/sda10 before > /dev/sda2). > > What I'm investigating is an apparent anomaly: > 1. My primary machine had Jessie installed first with Squeeze > and Stretch later. It happily will boot all. > 2. I've set up a designated EXPERIMENTAL machine. Squeeze was > installed first and thus Grub is associated with it. > Wheezy and Jessie were installed without Grub. > Squeeze runs fine and will browse the web. > However, update-grub does not recognize either Wheezy or Jessie. > Also, a netinst of Stretch failed at the network setup step - > haven't done any trouble shooting yet. > > Two questions: > 1. Can I retroactively choose "include all available drivers" and > if so, how? > 2. How much free space would be required? As I was already planning > on some Grub experiments, I had left 10 MB un-partitioned before > /dev/sda1. That can easily be expanded. > > TIA If you like hacking the initrd mkdir test && cd test && zcat /boot/initrd.img-`uname -r` | cpio -Hnewc -i ... find . ! -name *~ | cpio -H newc --create | gzip -9 > /boot/initrd.img-`uname -r` I foundthisvery useful over the years, especially for testing things out 10MB would be enough for 1 kernel+initrd & co I wouldn't use dedicated boot partition in your case. For testing you can leave all on one partition. If you use dedicated boot partition and want to share it among different installs - watch out to not format it ... and you must keep all your kernels+initrd there. regards
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| From | Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-05-16 13:20 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <tHIGe-4Ub-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #181021 |
On 05/15/2017 02:06 PM, deloptes wrote: > Richard Owlett wrote: > >> On 05/14/2017 06:46 AM, David Wright wrote: >>> On Sun 14 May 2017 at 04:57:07 (-0500), Richard Owlett wrote: >>>> On 05/14/2017 02:40 AM, Joe wrote: >>>>> On Sat, 13 May 2017 20:54:04 -0400 >>>>> RavenLX <ravenlx@sitesplace.net> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On 05/13/2017 12:40 PM, Richard Owlett wrote: >>>>>>> I have a partition whose label is "common". >>>>>> >>>>>> I could almost smack myself in the head. I had done that when I used >>>>>> to dual-boot Windows / Linux (now you can see why I'm not a fan of >>>>>> dual-boot, I guess! LOL!). I also used to dual boot SolydX and SolydK >>>>>> distributions. >>>>>> >>>>>> In my VMs, I do use the guest additions and have a shared directory >>>>>> (necessity for what I need to do as well). >>>>>> >>>>>> But that was one way I had shared data. >>>>>> >>>>>> However, I still balk at dual-booting (like you balk at VMs :) ) >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Another option I've used for some years: a pocket-sized USB hard drive >>>>> with an i386 all-modules installation, which boots on practically >>>>> anything that isn't an ARM. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Can you clarify what you mean by the phrase "i386 all-modules >>>> installation"? >>> >>> Recall this d-i screen? >> >> I do now ;) >> Actually initrd and initramfs and were on my "google today" list. >> That may that may explain something I've recently noticed. >> As I experiment with many Debian versions and configurations I routinely >> can multi-boot among a a half dozen (or more) choices. >> >> As I've had some spectacularly failed installs, my practice is to >> install Grub *ONLY* with the *FIRST* install. That way the default >> action is to boot a known good system and the questionable one will >> generally be last on the list (Grub insists on listing /dev/sda10 before >> /dev/sda2). >> >> What I'm investigating is an apparent anomaly: >> 1. My primary machine had Jessie installed first with Squeeze >> and Stretch later. It happily will boot all. >> 2. I've set up a designated EXPERIMENTAL machine. Squeeze was >> installed first and thus Grub is associated with it. >> Wheezy and Jessie were installed without Grub. >> Squeeze runs fine and will browse the web. >> However, update-grub does not recognize either Wheezy or Jessie. >> Also, a netinst of Stretch failed at the network setup step - >> haven't done any trouble shooting yet. >> >> Two questions: >> 1. Can I retroactively choose "include all available drivers" and >> if so, how? >> 2. How much free space would be required? As I was already planning >> on some Grub experiments, I had left 10 MB un-partitioned before >> /dev/sda1. That can easily be expanded. >> >> TIA > > If you like hacking the initrd Not one of my life goals <chuckle> > > mkdir test && cd test && zcat /boot/initrd.img-`uname -r` | cpio -Hnewc -i > I may not be "prophet or son of a prophet", but I see a "lab practical" on parsing in my future. > ... > > find . ! -name *~ | cpio -H newc --create | gzip -9 >> /boot/initrd.img-`uname -r` > > I foundthisvery useful over the years, especially for testing things > out 10MB would be enough for 1 kernel+initrd & co While I was tweaking my "EXPERIMENTAL machine" partitioning for unrelated reasons, left the first GB unallocated. > > I wouldn't use dedicated boot partition in your case. For testing > you can leave all on one partition. If you use dedicated boot > partition and want to share it among different installs - watch out > to not format it ... and you must keep all your kernels+initrd there. > I'm unclear as to "dedicated boot partition" above. My typical install procedure results in a directory structure as below: richard@stretch-2nd:/$ dir bin etc initrd.img.old media proc sbin tmp vmlinuz boot home lib mnt root srv usr vmlinuz.old dev initrd.img lost+found opt run sys var Are you referring to the "boot" in that list? I've may have been a computer *user* for a half-century. But I have little formal background ;} > regards > > >
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| From | Thanatos Incarnate <thanatosincarnate@openmailbox.org> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-05-16 13:30 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <tHIPT-4Yo-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #181027 |
Hello there, My 2 cents: If you're used to Debian Stable level stability, then Testing might get on your nerves with its tiny little paper cuts (Firefox crashing, Thunderbird not knowing what to do with your Icedove profile, KDE having GUI elements that follow your set theme, but then also others that don't, KDE PIM being crashy as ever,...). Of course, the less complicated your system, the fewer bugs you'll have. So, while Openbox, a panel and a terminal won't drive your crazy even on Sid, KDE or Gnome might. Regards, Thane. On 16.05.2017 13:17, Richard Owlett wrote: > On 05/15/2017 02:06 PM, deloptes wrote: >> Richard Owlett wrote: >> >>> On 05/14/2017 06:46 AM, David Wright wrote: >>>> On Sun 14 May 2017 at 04:57:07 (-0500), Richard Owlett wrote: >>>>> On 05/14/2017 02:40 AM, Joe wrote: >>>>>> On Sat, 13 May 2017 20:54:04 -0400 >>>>>> RavenLX <ravenlx@sitesplace.net> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 05/13/2017 12:40 PM, Richard Owlett wrote: >>>>>>>> I have a partition whose label is "common". >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I could almost smack myself in the head. I had done that when I >>>>>>> used >>>>>>> to dual-boot Windows / Linux (now you can see why I'm not a fan of >>>>>>> dual-boot, I guess! LOL!). I also used to dual boot SolydX and >>>>>>> SolydK >>>>>>> distributions. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In my VMs, I do use the guest additions and have a shared directory >>>>>>> (necessity for what I need to do as well). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> But that was one way I had shared data. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> However, I still balk at dual-booting (like you balk at VMs :) ) >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Another option I've used for some years: a pocket-sized USB hard >>>>>> drive >>>>>> with an i386 all-modules installation, which boots on practically >>>>>> anything that isn't an ARM. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Can you clarify what you mean by the phrase "i386 all-modules >>>>> installation"? >>>> >>>> Recall this d-i screen? >>> >>> I do now ;) >>> Actually initrd and initramfs and were on my "google today" list. >>> That may that may explain something I've recently noticed. >>> As I experiment with many Debian versions and configurations I >>> routinely >>> can multi-boot among a a half dozen (or more) choices. >>> >>> As I've had some spectacularly failed installs, my practice is to >>> install Grub *ONLY* with the *FIRST* install. That way the default >>> action is to boot a known good system and the questionable one will >>> generally be last on the list (Grub insists on listing /dev/sda10 >>> before >>> /dev/sda2). >>> >>> What I'm investigating is an apparent anomaly: >>> 1. My primary machine had Jessie installed first with Squeeze >>> and Stretch later. It happily will boot all. >>> 2. I've set up a designated EXPERIMENTAL machine. Squeeze was >>> installed first and thus Grub is associated with it. >>> Wheezy and Jessie were installed without Grub. >>> Squeeze runs fine and will browse the web. >>> However, update-grub does not recognize either Wheezy or Jessie. >>> Also, a netinst of Stretch failed at the network setup step - >>> haven't done any trouble shooting yet. >>> >>> Two questions: >>> 1. Can I retroactively choose "include all available drivers" and >>> if so, how? >>> 2. How much free space would be required? As I was already planning >>> on some Grub experiments, I had left 10 MB un-partitioned before >>> /dev/sda1. That can easily be expanded. >>> >>> TIA >> >> If you like hacking the initrd > > Not one of my life goals <chuckle> > >> >> mkdir test && cd test && zcat /boot/initrd.img-`uname -r` | cpio >> -Hnewc -i >> > > I may not be "prophet or son of a prophet", but I see a "lab > practical" on parsing in my future. > >> ... >> >> find . ! -name *~ | cpio -H newc --create | gzip -9 >>> /boot/initrd.img-`uname -r` >> >> I foundthisvery useful over the years, especially for testing things >> out 10MB would be enough for 1 kernel+initrd & co > > While I was tweaking my "EXPERIMENTAL machine" partitioning for > unrelated reasons, left the first GB unallocated. > >> >> I wouldn't use dedicated boot partition in your case. For testing >> you can leave all on one partition. If you use dedicated boot >> partition and want to share it among different installs - watch out >> to not format it ... and you must keep all your kernels+initrd there. >> > > I'm unclear as to "dedicated boot partition" above. > My typical install procedure results in a directory structure as below: > richard@stretch-2nd:/$ dir > bin etc initrd.img.old media proc sbin tmp vmlinuz > boot home lib mnt root srv usr vmlinuz.old > dev initrd.img lost+found opt run sys var > > Are you referring to the "boot" in that list? > I've may have been a computer *user* for a half-century. > But I have little formal background ;} > >> regards >> >> >> > >
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| From | Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-05-16 16:00 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <tHLb3-6iL-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #181029 |
On 05/16/2017 06:22 AM, Thanatos Incarnate wrote: > Hello there, Hi right back ;} > > My 2 cents: If you're used to Debian Stable level stability, then > Testing might get on your nerves with its tiny little paper cuts > (Firefox crashing, Thunderbird not knowing what to do with your > Icedove profile, KDE having GUI elements that follow your set theme, > but then also others that don't, KDE PIM being crashy as ever,...). > Of course, the less complicated your system, the fewer bugs you'll > have. So, while Openbox, a panel and a terminal won't drive your > crazy even on Sid, KDE or Gnome might. *ROFL!* <giggle><giggle> ;/ I've been a computer _user_ for a half-century. About 5 years ago I started seriously plotting my escape from the gloppy GUI of an organization recently in the news. I investigated "Linux from Scratch", Slackware, and Ubuntu. Debian was chosen for having a good mixture of customizing possibilities and breath of easily installed tested software. "Stability" was a secondary criterion. The the timing of the move to Testing was motivated by availability of a more current version of one application. The rest, as they say, is history. My current mantra is "If retirement isn't for learning, what use is it?"
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| From | SDA <marathon.durandal@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-05-17 05:10 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <tHXvz-634-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #181032 |
On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 08:50:45AM -0500, Richard Owlett wrote: > > *ROFL!* <giggle><giggle> ;/ > I've been a computer _user_ for a half-century. > About 5 years ago I started seriously plotting my escape from the gloppy GUI > of an organization recently in the news. > I investigated "Linux from Scratch", Slackware, and Ubuntu. Debian was > chosen for having a good mixture of customizing possibilities and breath of > easily installed tested software. IMHO You should do LFS - Over the past 18 months or so, the amount of traffic attributed to you and your learning is incredible. A lot of time is spent on your issues, (which face it aren't really problems) while I feel that other users don't get the attention needed. What makes you think you should monopolize this list as your personal research tool? It's fucking ridiculous! > My current mantra is "If retirement isn't for learning, what use is it?" Maybe get out and enjoy life more? I'm retired too, but don't spend all my time at the keyboard!
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| From | Ric Moore <wayward4now@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-05-17 05:30 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <tHXOW-69n-7@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #181044 |
On 05/16/2017 11:04 PM, SDA wrote: > On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 08:50:45AM -0500, Richard Owlett wrote: >> >> *ROFL!* <giggle><giggle> ;/ >> I've been a computer _user_ for a half-century. >> About 5 years ago I started seriously plotting my escape from the gloppy GUI >> of an organization recently in the news. >> I investigated "Linux from Scratch", Slackware, and Ubuntu. Debian was >> chosen for having a good mixture of customizing possibilities and breath of >> easily installed tested software. > > IMHO You should do LFS - Over the past 18 months or so, the amount of > traffic attributed to you and your learning is incredible. A lot of time is > spent on your issues, (which face it aren't really problems) while I feel > that other users don't get the attention needed. What makes you think you > should monopolize this list as your personal research tool? It's fucking > ridiculous! > >> My current mantra is "If retirement isn't for learning, what use is it?" > > Maybe get out and enjoy life more? I'm retired too, but don't spend all my > time at the keyboard! If he's like me, an amputee in a wheelchair, keeping the ole brain active, while everything else is failing, isn't a bad thing. I also watch a lot of cooking shows, but that is another matter. <grins> Ric -- My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say: "There are two Great Sins in the world... ..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity. Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad. http://linuxcounter.net/user/44256.html
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| From | Richard Owlett <rowlett@cloud85.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-05-17 12:30 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <tI4no-1Pa-39@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #181045 |
On 05/16/2017 10:23 PM, Ric Moore wrote: > On 05/16/2017 11:04 PM, SDA wrote: >> On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 08:50:45AM -0500, Richard Owlett wrote: >>> >>> *ROFL!* <giggle><giggle> ;/ >>> I've been a computer _user_ for a half-century. >>> About 5 years ago I started seriously plotting my escape from the >>> gloppy GUI >>> of an organization recently in the news. >>> I investigated "Linux from Scratch", Slackware, and Ubuntu. Debian was >>> chosen for having a good mixture of customizing possibilities and >>> breath of >>> easily installed tested software. >> >> IMHO You should do LFS - Over the past 18 months or so, the amount of >> traffic attributed to you and your learning is incredible. A lot of >> time is >> spent on your issues, (which face it aren't really problems) while I feel >> that other users don't get the attention needed. What makes you think you >> should monopolize this list as your personal research tool? It's fucking >> ridiculous! >> >>> My current mantra is "If retirement isn't for learning, what use is it?" >> >> Maybe get out and enjoy life more? I'm retired too, but don't spend >> all my >> time at the keyboard! > > > If he's like me, an amputee in a wheelchair, keeping the ole brain > active, while everything else is failing, isn't a bad thing. I also > watch a lot of cooking shows, but that is another matter. <grins> Ric > Legs still attached. However two vertebrae have seen better days resulting in Cauda Equina Syndrome. Prognosis seven years ago was lifetime wheelchair. Now, away from home it's a pair of canes or a walker. At home it's more efficient to use my wheelchair. I also watch cooking shows ;/
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| From | RavenLX <ravenlx@sitesplace.net> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-05-17 15:30 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <tI7bA-3B5-1@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #181045 |
On 05/16/2017 11:23 PM, Ric Moore wrote: > On 05/16/2017 11:04 PM, SDA wrote: >> On Tue, May 16, 2017 at 08:50:45AM -0500, Richard Owlett wrote: >>> >>> *ROFL!* <giggle><giggle> ;/ >>> I've been a computer _user_ for a half-century. >>> About 5 years ago I started seriously plotting my escape from the >>> gloppy GUI >>> of an organization recently in the news. >>> I investigated "Linux from Scratch", Slackware, and Ubuntu. Debian was >>> chosen for having a good mixture of customizing possibilities and >>> breath of >>> easily installed tested software. >> >> IMHO You should do LFS - Over the past 18 months or so, the amount of >> traffic attributed to you and your learning is incredible. A lot of >> time is >> spent on your issues, (which face it aren't really problems) while I feel >> that other users don't get the attention needed. What makes you think you >> should monopolize this list as your personal research tool? It's fucking >> ridiculous! >> >>> My current mantra is "If retirement isn't for learning, what use is it?" >> >> Maybe get out and enjoy life more? I'm retired too, but don't spend >> all my >> time at the keyboard! > > > If he's like me, an amputee in a wheelchair, keeping the ole brain > active, while everything else is failing, isn't a bad thing. I also > watch a lot of cooking shows, but that is another matter. <grins> Ric I'm disabled with Fibromyalgia and work from home. I can't afford to retire. And I spend almost all my time at the computer. I love watching YouTube (Gak!! *cough* Ok... some channels are actually pretty good). Though they are not cooking shows. Mostly sci-fi, spiritual, music, and tech and art or DIY related.
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| From | deloptes <deloptes@gmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-05-16 20:20 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <tHPeF-yr-11@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #181029 |
Thanatos Incarnate wrote: > My 2 cents: If you're used to Debian Stable level stability, then > Testing might get on your nerves with its tiny little paper cuts > (Firefox crashing, Thunderbird not knowing what to do with your Icedove > profile, KDE having GUI elements that follow your set theme, but then > also others that don't, KDE PIM being crashy as ever,...). Of course, > the less complicated your system, the fewer bugs you'll have. So, while > Openbox, a panel and a terminal won't drive your crazy even on Sid, KDE > or Gnome might. To all that like the old stable style of DE I recommend TDE http://trinitydesktop.org God bless Mr. Pearson! PIM works like a charm. I also added plugins for bluetooth sync in syncevolution and been using this in the past year with relieve after being unable to sync for more than 10y. regards
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| From | Fungi4All <fungilife@protonmail.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2017-05-17 00:30 +0200 |
| Message-ID | <tHT8C-3a6-21@gated-at.bofh.it> |
| In reply to | #181039 |
[Multipart message — attachments visible in raw view] — view raw
I've been cheating after years of being a debian purist. I do like lxde and often plain openbox with my custom panel. But in recent times have brought me various frustrations with deb... particularly with resolv.conf acting as it has a mind of its own and vanishing my set of dns collections and replacing them with its believed to be best for me. I tried Manjaro LXDE and it seems rock solid, logical and sensical. The variety of packages is not there, there may be many things you do with debian that may not be able to be done with Manjaro, but for day to day average clean work (apart from system/net maintenance) it is a killer system. There is a bit of a "lack of control" feeling with much of its automation, but lately debian has had some of that feeling as well. I just get sick and tired of spending hours on .conf.files and then some update of package and they are either gone or obsolete or both. Debian doesn't like us to configure things on our own anymore. Then there are services being turned off and the next time you look they are up and running again. If you have other work to do than to be fiddling and chasing the running system around all day this has become a nightmare. It is like a hunting sport. I suspect many systems are evolving in such complex ways that some of us can not follow anymore. The best thing about manjaro is that it is not ubuntu (which is like Debian in drag without a personality) and I don't dare even look at someone's machine that mentions mint. Ubuntu to me is like a Porsche 914, a VW beatle mascaraded into a sports car. I'll just go with Fiat for now and keep debian as a challenging sport for the weekend. :)
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