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Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?

From Marco Möller <talby@debianlists.mobilxpress.net>
Newsgroups linux.debian.user
Subject Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?
Date 2022-01-22 14:00 +0100
Message-ID <DIo9Q-3m5-7@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
References <DFOtP-3FA-1@gated-at.bofh.it> <DGgq5-4Dv-5@gated-at.bofh.it> <DGlpM-7Rr-7@gated-at.bofh.it>
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On 16.01.22 22:36, Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote:
> 
> Anders Andersson <pipatron@gmail.com> wrote on 16/01/2022 at 17:09:01+0100:
> 
>> On Sat, Jan 15, 2022 at 11:29 AM Marco Möller
>> <talby@debianlists.mobilxpress.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Does somebody has information about what in the background has happened,
>>> which made Norbert leaving the team?
>>> Considering that Debian is a community project and myself feeling to be
>>> part of the community, although not actively involved in its maintenance
>>> and development, I am wondering what is going on in the community after
>>> his post from yesterday sounds like there are things happening in the
>>> community, which not all the community might be aware of.
>>> In his blog he wrote "After having been (again) demoted [...] based on
>>> flimsy arguments, I have been forced to rethink the level of
>>> contribution I want to do for Debian."
>>> https://www.preining.info/blog/2022/01/future-of-my-packages-in-debian/
>>>
>>> I wish that someone could publish some background information, neutral
>>> and respectful and without harming anybody. I am absolutely not
>>> interested to start here in public a war of recriminations. I simply
>>> feel that it would be worth for the health of the community to get a
>>> more transparent view on what is going on in the community.
>>> Do you have some background information which you could share in PLEASE
>>> neutral, well thought text, serving the community and its transparency
>>> instead of rupturing it?
>>> Thanks, Marco.
>>
>> I read a few of the comments on the blog you linked to, and he replies
>> to one comment:
>>
>> "No there is no public record (for now), as all happened on
>> debian-private. In due time I will document the whole process, since I
>> have access to all of debian-private until recently. Time to show what
>> really went on."
>>
>> Maybe you just have to wait a while. This will of course only be one
>> side of the story.
> 
> And as debian-private is private, there is little to no chance a Debian
> Member will provide any mail Norbert might not provide.
> 
> And, for the sake of clarity, neither Norbert should provide no mail at
> all, for the forementioned reason.

For transparency in a community driven project I do not think it would 
be needed to share private messages.
Instead, a statement like the following would provide some transparency: 
"the package maintainer was asked to comply to the following rules 
...(stating which ones...) but apparently no conciliation was reached; 
therefore the committee ...(stating which committee)... decided to take 
the following measures ...(which measures)..."

Without transparency the Debian project does not present itself as 
community driven, but as a closer circle of directing minds hiding the 
reasoning for their decisions. Skeptics might even ask who in such 
conjectured circle is providing truly independent work to the project 
and who is getting paid paid by whom for the efforts put into the 
project and then link taken decisions simply to monetary pressure? Such 
rumors can easily be defeated by more transparency.

I would expect that factual statements can be published without 
violating privacy of private conversations.
Maybe some insider can speak up and shed light on the situation.

Best wishes,
Marco

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Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Marco Möller <talby@debianlists.mobilxpress.net> - 2022-01-15 11:30 +0100
  Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2022-01-15 13:40 +0100
  Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Anders Andersson <pipatron@gmail.com> - 2022-01-16 17:20 +0100
    Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2022-01-16 22:40 +0100
      Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? harryweaver@tutanota.com - 2022-01-17 01:10 +0100
        Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2022-01-17 23:20 +0100
          Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? harryweaver@tutanota.com - 2022-01-17 23:30 +0100
            Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2022-01-18 00:00 +0100
              Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2022-01-18 00:10 +0100
            Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2022-01-18 00:10 +0100
      Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Marco Möller <talby@debianlists.mobilxpress.net> - 2022-01-22 14:00 +0100
        Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2022-01-22 14:50 +0100
          Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2022-01-22 15:30 +0100
            Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Marco Möller <talby@debianlists.mobilxpress.net> - 2022-01-22 20:40 +0100
              [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having  maintained KDE) left Debian? "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2022-01-23 00:30 +0100
                Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having  maintained KDE) left Debian? Marco Möller <talby@debianlists.mobilxpress.net> - 2022-01-23 19:50 +0100
                Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having  maintained KDE) left Debian? local10 <local10@tutanota.com> - 2022-01-23 20:20 +0100
                Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having  maintained KDE) left Debian? Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2022-01-23 21:10 +0100
                Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having  maintained KDE) left Debian? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-01-23 21:10 +0100
                Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having  maintained KDE) left Debian? Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2022-01-23 21:20 +0100
                Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having  maintained KDE) left Debian? local10 <local10@tutanota.com> - 2022-01-23 21:40 +0100
                Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having  maintained KDE) left Debian? Jim Popovitch <jim@k4vqc.com> - 2022-01-23 21:50 +0100
                Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having  maintained KDE) left Debian? Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2022-01-23 23:00 +0100
                Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having  maintained KDE) left Debian? RP <reyadmin@gmail.com> - 2022-01-24 00:10 +0100
                Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having  maintained KDE) left Debian? local10 <local10@tutanota.com> - 2022-01-24 00:40 +0100
                Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having  maintained KDE) left Debian? Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2022-01-24 01:00 +0100
                Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having  maintained KDE) left Debian? local10 <local10@tutanota.com> - 2022-01-24 01:30 +0100
                Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having  maintained KDE) left Debian? Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2022-01-24 02:20 +0100
                Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having  maintained KDE) left Debian? Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2022-01-24 03:50 +0100
                Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? deloptes <emanoil.kotsev@deloptes.org> - 2022-01-24 04:20 +0100
                Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? deloptes <emanoil.kotsev@deloptes.org> - 2022-01-24 03:50 +0100
                Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having  maintained KDE) left Debian? Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2022-01-24 22:10 +0100
              Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? deloptes <emanoil.kotsev@deloptes.org> - 2022-01-23 09:30 +0100
                Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2022-01-23 12:30 +0100
                "Package was removed from Debian because of a variable name" myth  (?) (was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?) Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2022-01-23 12:40 +0100
                Re: "Package was removed from Debian because of a variable name"  myth (?) (was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left  Debian?) Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2022-01-23 13:00 +0100
                Re: "Package was removed from Debian because of a variable name"  myth (?) (was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left  Debian?) Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2022-01-23 15:00 +0100
                Re: "Package was removed from Debian because of a variable name" myth  (?) (was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?) Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2022-01-23 21:00 +0100
                Re: "Package was removed from Debian because of a variable name" myth  (?) (was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?) Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2022-01-23 13:00 +0100
              Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-01-23 11:10 +0100
                Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? deloptes <emanoil.kotsev@deloptes.org> - 2022-01-23 11:40 +0100
                Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2022-01-23 11:50 +0100
                Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? deloptes <emanoil.kotsev@deloptes.org> - 2022-01-23 12:20 +0100
                Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2022-01-23 16:40 +0100
                Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-01-23 17:10 +0100
              Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? deloptes <emanoil.kotsev@deloptes.org> - 2022-01-23 11:10 +0100
                Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2022-01-23 11:20 +0100
                Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? deloptes <emanoil.kotsev@deloptes.org> - 2022-01-23 11:40 +0100
                Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2022-01-23 13:00 +0100
                Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? deloptes <emanoil.kotsev@deloptes.org> - 2022-01-23 13:50 +0100
                Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2022-01-23 13:50 +0100
                Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2022-01-23 13:50 +0100
                Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? deloptes <emanoil.kotsev@deloptes.org> - 2022-01-23 15:00 +0100
                Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2022-01-23 14:50 +0100
                Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2022-01-23 12:10 +0100
                Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2022-01-23 15:00 +0100
                Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2022-01-23 21:10 +0100
                Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2022-01-24 20:40 +0100
                Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? RP <reyadmin@gmail.com> - 2022-01-24 20:50 +0100
                Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2022-01-25 00:30 +0100
        Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? max  <maxwillb@mailfence.com> - 2022-01-24 01:40 +0100
          Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? RP <reyadmin@gmail.com> - 2022-01-24 01:50 +0100
          Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2022-01-24 02:30 +0100
            Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2022-01-24 03:50 +0100
              Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? max  <maxwillb@mailfence.com> - 2022-01-24 04:30 +0100
            Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? max  <maxwillb@mailfence.com> - 2022-01-24 03:50 +0100
          Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2022-01-24 21:10 +0100
      Re: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Norbert Preining <norbert@preining.info> - 2022-01-24 00:30 +0100
        Re: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left  Debian? max  <maxwillb@mailfence.com> - 2022-01-24 11:00 +0100
          Re: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left  Debian? harryweaver@tutanota.com - 2022-01-24 11:10 +0100
          Re: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? deloptes <emanoil.kotsev@deloptes.org> - 2022-01-24 12:50 +0100
            [CODE OF CONDUCT REMINDER - WAS Re: Re: Why did Norbert Preining  (having maintained KDE) left Debian?] "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2022-01-24 18:00 +0100
              Re: [CODE OF CONDUCT REMINDER - WAS Re: Re: Why did Norbert Preining  (having maintained KDE) left Debian?] Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2022-01-24 18:40 +0100
                Re: [CODE OF CONDUCT REMINDER - WAS Re: Re: Why did Norbert Preining  (having maintained KDE) left Debian?] Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2022-01-24 19:10 +0100
                Re: [CODE OF CONDUCT REMINDER - WAS Re: Re: Why did Norbert Preining  (having maintained KDE) left Debian?] RP <reyadmin@gmail.com> - 2022-01-24 19:10 +0100
                Re: [CODE OF CONDUCT REMINDER - WAS Re: Re: Why did Norbert Preining  (having maintained KDE) left Debian?] Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2022-01-24 19:10 +0100
        Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@pimeys.fr> - 2022-01-24 22:00 +0100
          Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Norbert Preining <norbert@preining.info> - 2022-01-25 01:30 +0100
            Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2022-01-25 07:40 +0100

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