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Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?

From Marco Möller <talby@debianlists.mobilxpress.net>
Newsgroups linux.debian.user
Subject Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?
Date 2022-01-23 19:50 +0100
Message-ID <DIQ65-3nO-3@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
References <DIo9Q-3m5-7@gated-at.bofh.it> <DIoWd-3Si-9@gated-at.bofh.it> <DIpyV-4kb-1@gated-at.bofh.it> <DIuoW-7dP-11@gated-at.bofh.it> <DIxZv-XQ-1@gated-at.bofh.it>
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On 23.01.22 00:24, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
> On Sat, Jan 22, 2022 at 08:29:42PM +0100, Marco Möller wrote:
>> On 22.01.22 15:24, songbird wrote:
>>> Thomas Schmitt wrote:
>>> ...
>>>> When this topic came up i googled around for learning about the actual
>>>> conflict.
>>>> This mail by Norbert Preining
>>>>
>>>>     https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2018/12/msg00032.html
>>>>
>>>> describes his view on his demotion from Debian Developer to Debian
>>>> Maintainer by the  Debian Account Mangers (DAM) initiated by the
>>>> Anti Harassment team (AH, now Community team).
>>>> His mail quotes some of their mails. The follow-ups contain replies by
>>>> the other side of this conflict.
>>>>
>>>> I think the further deterioration of his relation with Debian stems from
>>>> there, but i did not explore 900 matches of
>>>>
>>>>     https://lists.debian.org/cgi-bin/search?P=Norbert+Preining&DEFAULTOP=or&B=Gdebian-project&SORT=&HITSPERPAGE=10
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Have a nice day :)
>>>
>>>     excellent reply and pretty much my own feelings on the matter
>>> too.  :)
>>>
>>>     if people want to keep trolling on the matter it's all fine with
>>> me but it doubtful it will shed any more light in relation to how
>>> much heat it will give off for not much gain.
>>>
>>>
>>>     songbird
>>>
>>
>> Asking for transparency to sound like trolling wasn't my intention. I am
>> sorry if I wasn't able to find the correct wording for keeping these to
>> things distinguishable.
>>
>> Being a grateful user of Debian, and being in my circle of influence a
>> strong advocate of the Debian project, and also of the KDE Plasma desktop
>> environment as available in Debian, I do not feel it to be, lets say,
>> insolent, if interested in community affairs. Actually, I feel it desirable
>> to stay well informed for reinforcing advocacy, and asking for transparency
>> is to me a coherent step.
>>
>> I feel that a concise statement from Debian insiders would gain a lot to not
>> provoke avoidable discussions and would right away defeat heat given off
>> obstructively.
>> As Thomas pointed out, there are hundreds of posts from years old
>> discussions which appear to be the prelude to the current situation. Some of
>> these public discussions have been quite controversial, partly also
>> questioning if community processes are always taking place sufficiently
>> transparent. Currently I find only a public statement from one party. This
>> could harm the Debian project. Some concise statement from somebody in the
>> Debian project with insights into the issue could prevent Debian from bad
>> repute by declassifying which are the positions of the present disagreement.
>>
>> Best wishes,
>> Marco
>>
> 
> On behalf of DAM - the Debian Account Managers - the brief statement follows:
> 
> ====
> 
> Norbert's status as Debian Developer has been officially withdrawn after
> repeated  violations of the Debian Code of Conduct. An appeal process was also
> initiated and has concluded. It upheld the withdrawal of the Debian Developer
> status.
> 
> That withdrawal does not prevent him from making contributions to the Debian
> Project. However, it's entirely understandable that he might choose to leave
> the community instead. That is a decision we must respect, and I'd ask you to
> do so as well.
> 
> =====
> 
> With every good wish,
> 
> Andrew Cater
> 

Dear Andrew, Dear Debian Account Managers,
I thank you very much for your public response. It is much appreciated, 
and not only because of the clear information, that in this particular 
case the position of both parties is now public, but specially also 
because you answered here on the list to me even though I am simply a 
normal user.
We all know that facing controversy with users and with contributors is 
a very tough task. You earn my full respect for publicly standing up and 
defending the project.

A suggestion which you might want to discuss in the committee(s): maybe 
you can consider if in the balancing act between privacy and 
transparency there could be space for a bulletin board where the Debian 
project publishes by internal committees taken decisions which are 
likely to be of interest for the broader community. Maybe on 
https://www.debian.org/intro/index#community in the "Debian is a 
Community" column is space for another link "Committee Notifications", 
or opening a list "debian-committee-announce". The present 
https://micronews.debian.org/ "Debian micronews" could stay reserved for 
the technical news, while the suggested notification location would 
publish community related news. Well, nothing which shall be discussed 
here in this thread, just my suggestion to the Debian project.

Thanks a lot, for your above provided response and also for Debian,
Best wishes,
Marco

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Thread

Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Marco Möller <talby@debianlists.mobilxpress.net> - 2022-01-15 11:30 +0100
  Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2022-01-15 13:40 +0100
  Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Anders Andersson <pipatron@gmail.com> - 2022-01-16 17:20 +0100
    Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2022-01-16 22:40 +0100
      Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? harryweaver@tutanota.com - 2022-01-17 01:10 +0100
        Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2022-01-17 23:20 +0100
          Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? harryweaver@tutanota.com - 2022-01-17 23:30 +0100
            Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2022-01-18 00:00 +0100
              Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Nicholas Geovanis <nickgeovanis@gmail.com> - 2022-01-18 00:10 +0100
            Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2022-01-18 00:10 +0100
      Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Marco Möller <talby@debianlists.mobilxpress.net> - 2022-01-22 14:00 +0100
        Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? "Thomas Schmitt" <scdbackup@gmx.net> - 2022-01-22 14:50 +0100
          Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? songbird <songbird@anthive.com> - 2022-01-22 15:30 +0100
            Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Marco Möller <talby@debianlists.mobilxpress.net> - 2022-01-22 20:40 +0100
              [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having  maintained KDE) left Debian? "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2022-01-23 00:30 +0100
                Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having  maintained KDE) left Debian? Marco Möller <talby@debianlists.mobilxpress.net> - 2022-01-23 19:50 +0100
                Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having  maintained KDE) left Debian? local10 <local10@tutanota.com> - 2022-01-23 20:20 +0100
                Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having  maintained KDE) left Debian? Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2022-01-23 21:10 +0100
                Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having  maintained KDE) left Debian? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-01-23 21:10 +0100
                Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having  maintained KDE) left Debian? Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2022-01-23 21:20 +0100
                Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having  maintained KDE) left Debian? local10 <local10@tutanota.com> - 2022-01-23 21:40 +0100
                Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having  maintained KDE) left Debian? Jim Popovitch <jim@k4vqc.com> - 2022-01-23 21:50 +0100
                Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having  maintained KDE) left Debian? Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2022-01-23 23:00 +0100
                Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having  maintained KDE) left Debian? RP <reyadmin@gmail.com> - 2022-01-24 00:10 +0100
                Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having  maintained KDE) left Debian? local10 <local10@tutanota.com> - 2022-01-24 00:40 +0100
                Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having  maintained KDE) left Debian? Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2022-01-24 01:00 +0100
                Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having  maintained KDE) left Debian? local10 <local10@tutanota.com> - 2022-01-24 01:30 +0100
                Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having  maintained KDE) left Debian? Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2022-01-24 02:20 +0100
                Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having  maintained KDE) left Debian? Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2022-01-24 03:50 +0100
                Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? deloptes <emanoil.kotsev@deloptes.org> - 2022-01-24 04:20 +0100
                Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? deloptes <emanoil.kotsev@deloptes.org> - 2022-01-24 03:50 +0100
                Re: [SUMMARY STATEMENT] Was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having  maintained KDE) left Debian? Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2022-01-24 22:10 +0100
              Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? deloptes <emanoil.kotsev@deloptes.org> - 2022-01-23 09:30 +0100
                Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2022-01-23 12:30 +0100
                "Package was removed from Debian because of a variable name" myth  (?) (was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?) Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2022-01-23 12:40 +0100
                Re: "Package was removed from Debian because of a variable name"  myth (?) (was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left  Debian?) Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2022-01-23 13:00 +0100
                Re: "Package was removed from Debian because of a variable name"  myth (?) (was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left  Debian?) Greg Wooledge <greg@wooledge.org> - 2022-01-23 15:00 +0100
                Re: "Package was removed from Debian because of a variable name" myth  (?) (was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?) Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2022-01-23 21:00 +0100
                Re: "Package was removed from Debian because of a variable name" myth  (?) (was: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian?) Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2022-01-23 13:00 +0100
              Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-01-23 11:10 +0100
                Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? deloptes <emanoil.kotsev@deloptes.org> - 2022-01-23 11:40 +0100
                Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2022-01-23 11:50 +0100
                Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? deloptes <emanoil.kotsev@deloptes.org> - 2022-01-23 12:20 +0100
                Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Charles Curley <charlescurley@charlescurley.com> - 2022-01-23 16:40 +0100
                Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? <tomas@tuxteam.de> - 2022-01-23 17:10 +0100
              Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? deloptes <emanoil.kotsev@deloptes.org> - 2022-01-23 11:10 +0100
                Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2022-01-23 11:20 +0100
                Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? deloptes <emanoil.kotsev@deloptes.org> - 2022-01-23 11:40 +0100
                Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2022-01-23 13:00 +0100
                Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? deloptes <emanoil.kotsev@deloptes.org> - 2022-01-23 13:50 +0100
                Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Andy Smith <andy@strugglers.net> - 2022-01-23 13:50 +0100
                Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2022-01-23 13:50 +0100
                Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? deloptes <emanoil.kotsev@deloptes.org> - 2022-01-23 15:00 +0100
                Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2022-01-23 14:50 +0100
                Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2022-01-23 12:10 +0100
                Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2022-01-23 15:00 +0100
                Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2022-01-23 21:10 +0100
                Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2022-01-24 20:40 +0100
                Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? RP <reyadmin@gmail.com> - 2022-01-24 20:50 +0100
                Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2022-01-25 00:30 +0100
        Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? max  <maxwillb@mailfence.com> - 2022-01-24 01:40 +0100
          Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? RP <reyadmin@gmail.com> - 2022-01-24 01:50 +0100
          Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2022-01-24 02:30 +0100
            Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2022-01-24 03:50 +0100
              Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? max  <maxwillb@mailfence.com> - 2022-01-24 04:30 +0100
            Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? max  <maxwillb@mailfence.com> - 2022-01-24 03:50 +0100
          Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Andrei POPESCU <andreimpopescu@gmail.com> - 2022-01-24 21:10 +0100
      Re: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Norbert Preining <norbert@preining.info> - 2022-01-24 00:30 +0100
        Re: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left  Debian? max  <maxwillb@mailfence.com> - 2022-01-24 11:00 +0100
          Re: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left  Debian? harryweaver@tutanota.com - 2022-01-24 11:10 +0100
          Re: Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? deloptes <emanoil.kotsev@deloptes.org> - 2022-01-24 12:50 +0100
            [CODE OF CONDUCT REMINDER - WAS Re: Re: Why did Norbert Preining  (having maintained KDE) left Debian?] "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> - 2022-01-24 18:00 +0100
              Re: [CODE OF CONDUCT REMINDER - WAS Re: Re: Why did Norbert Preining  (having maintained KDE) left Debian?] Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2022-01-24 18:40 +0100
                Re: [CODE OF CONDUCT REMINDER - WAS Re: Re: Why did Norbert Preining  (having maintained KDE) left Debian?] Polyna-Maude Racicot-Summerside <debian@polynamaude.com> - 2022-01-24 19:10 +0100
                Re: [CODE OF CONDUCT REMINDER - WAS Re: Re: Why did Norbert Preining  (having maintained KDE) left Debian?] RP <reyadmin@gmail.com> - 2022-01-24 19:10 +0100
                Re: [CODE OF CONDUCT REMINDER - WAS Re: Re: Why did Norbert Preining  (having maintained KDE) left Debian?] Roberto C. Sánchez <roberto@debian.org> - 2022-01-24 19:10 +0100
        Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@pimeys.fr> - 2022-01-24 22:00 +0100
          Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Norbert Preining <norbert@preining.info> - 2022-01-25 01:30 +0100
            Re: Why did Norbert Preining (having maintained KDE) left Debian? Pierre-Elliott Bécue <peb@debian.org> - 2022-01-25 07:40 +0100

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