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pycharm package in debian

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  pycharm package in debian kamaraju kusumanchi <raju.mailinglists@gmail.com> - 2017-09-30 14:30 +0200
    Re: pycharm package in debian Yaroslav Halchenko <yoh@onerussian.com> - 2017-09-30 15:40 +0200
    Re: pycharm package in debian Julien Puydt <julien.puydt@laposte.net> - 2017-09-30 16:40 +0200
      Re: pycharm package in debian Paul Wise <pabs@debian.org> - 2017-10-01 03:40 +0200
        Re: pycharm package in debian Ghislain Vaillant <ghisvail@gmail.com> - 2017-10-01 09:30 +0200
          Re: pycharm package in debian Paul Wise <pabs@debian.org> - 2017-10-01 09:40 +0200
            Re: pycharm package in debian Ghislain Vaillant <ghisvail@gmail.com> - 2017-10-01 09:50 +0200
              Re: pycharm package in debian Ben Finney <bignose@debian.org> - 2017-10-01 10:50 +0200
                Re: pycharm package in debian Ghislain Vaillant <ghisvail@gmail.com> - 2017-10-01 11:10 +0200
                  Re: pycharm package in debian Ben Finney <bignose@debian.org> - 2017-10-01 11:50 +0200
              Re: pycharm package in debian Thomas Goirand <zigo@debian.org> - 2017-10-01 21:40 +0200
                Re: pycharm package in debian Ghislain Vaillant <ghisvail@gmail.com> - 2017-10-01 22:10 +0200
                Re: pycharm package in debian Matthias Klose <doko@debian.org> - 2017-10-02 00:00 +0200
                  Re: pycharm package in debian Thomas Goirand <zigo@debian.org> - 2017-10-02 10:40 +0200
                    Re: pycharm package in debian "W. Martin Borgert" <debacle@debian.org> - 2017-10-02 10:50 +0200
                    Re: pycharm package in debian Diane Trout <diane@ghic.org> - 2017-10-04 23:20 +0200
                      Re: pycharm package in debian Simon McVittie <smcv@debian.org> - 2017-10-04 23:50 +0200
                        Re: pycharm package in debian Diane Trout <diane@ghic.org> - 2017-10-05 01:10 +0200
          Re: pycharm package in debian "W. Martin Borgert" <debacle@debian.org> - 2017-10-01 17:00 +0200
            Re: pycharm package in debian Ghislain Vaillant <ghisvail@gmail.com> - 2017-10-01 18:20 +0200
              Re: pycharm package in debian "W. Martin Borgert" <debacle@debian.org> - 2017-10-01 18:40 +0200
                Re: pycharm package in debian Ben Finney <bignose@debian.org> - 2017-10-02 00:10 +0200
                Re: pycharm package in debian Andrey Rahmatullin <wrar@debian.org> - 2017-10-02 00:10 +0200
            Re: pycharm package in debian Andrey Rahmatullin <wrar@debian.org> - 2017-10-01 20:20 +0200
              Re: pycharm package in debian "W. Martin Borgert" <debacle@debian.org> - 2017-10-01 23:20 +0200
          snap in debian Brian May <bam@debian.org> - 2017-10-01 22:50 +0200
            Re: snap in debian Michael Hudson-Doyle <michael.hudson@canonical.com> - 2017-10-04 22:40 +0200
              Re: snap in debian Brian May <bam@debian.org> - 2017-10-04 23:00 +0200
                Re: snap in debian Brian May <bam@debian.org> - 2017-10-04 23:10 +0200
                Re: snap in debian Michael Hudson-Doyle <michael.hudson@canonical.com> - 2017-10-04 23:20 +0200
                  Re: snap in debian Michael Hudson-Doyle <michael.hudson@canonical.com> - 2017-10-09 01:50 +0200
                    Re: snap in debian Michael Hudson-Doyle <michael.hudson@canonical.com> - 2017-10-09 02:20 +0200
                      Re: snap in debian Michael Hudson-Doyle <michael.hudson@canonical.com> - 2017-10-09 03:20 +0200
                        Re: snap in debian Brian May <bam@debian.org> - 2017-10-15 04:30 +0200
          Re: pycharm package in debian kamaraju kusumanchi <raju.mailinglists@gmail.com> - 2017-10-02 02:30 +0200

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#9897

On 2017-10-01 17:16, Ghislain Vaillant wrote:
> Most likely a lot. We are talking about a large application with probably
> quite a few dependencies in Java / Kotlin.
>
> Why not? Because failure to commit to regular updates would feed the
> current narrative that Debian ships old and loosely maintained software.
> Especially when there are other means of installing the software which are
> officially documented upstream.
>
> I have been there with packages I personally maintain (spyder for
> instance), and I am raising these concerns out of my own experience and
> feedback from existing users. Feel free to disregard.

Those are absolutely valid concers. I'm aware of many outdated
packages, including some maintained by me. I leave the challenge
to those, who like to package it. Still, if PyCharm were in
Debian, I would at least try it out some day.

Cheers

PS: Is there maybe something broken with the quoting function of
your MUA? I cannot differentiate between text written by you and
quoted text. There is no '> ' or whatever...

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#9904

Andrey Rahmatullin <wrar@debian.org> writes:

> On Sun, Oct 01, 2017 at 06:38:03PM +0200, W. Martin Borgert wrote:
> > PS: Is there maybe something broken with the quoting function of
> > your MUA? I cannot differentiate between text written by you and
> > quoted text. There is no '> ' or whatever...
> That's how text parts of text+html mails often look like.

It is a recent breakage on GMail: the text body is broken (quoted
text is indistinguishable from non-quoted text). As I don't use GMail I
don't know what the author can do to correct this.

Those using GMail should engage with their support team to get this
fixed for all users. Until then, use a different client for composing
messages.

-- 
 \      “As soon as we abandon our own reason, and are content to rely |
  `\       upon authority, there is no end to our troubles.” —Bertrand |
_o__)                                Russell, _Unpopular Essays_, 1950 |
Ben Finney

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#9905

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On Sun, Oct 01, 2017 at 06:38:03PM +0200, W. Martin Borgert wrote:
> PS: Is there maybe something broken with the quoting function of
> your MUA? I cannot differentiate between text written by you and
> quoted text. There is no '> ' or whatever...
That's how text parts of text+html mails often look like.

-- 
WBR, wRAR

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#9898

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On Sun, Oct 01, 2017 at 04:52:55PM +0200, W. Martin Borgert wrote:
> I usually start to use software, when it arrives in Debian.
> Or I package it. If there is some snap or other third party
> package, I'm unsure how to work with it:
> 
> How to install? 
I expand the tarball to ~

> How to uninstall? 
I would remove  ~/pycharm

> How to report bugs and to whom?
Help / Report Problem opens the upstream JIRA.
Surely you don't expect the Debian maintainers to fix bugs you could
encounter in PyCharm?

> How to download the source code and rebuild it? Is it
> DFSG-free anyway? (Does it already build reproducible?)
Those are irrelevant to me as I use the paid version, so...

-- 
WBR, wRAR

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#9902

On 2017-10-01 23:16, Andrey Rahmatullin wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 01, 2017 at 04:52:55PM +0200, W. Martin Borgert wrote:
> > I usually start to use software, when it arrives in Debian.
> > Or I package it. If there is some snap or other third party
> > package, I'm unsure how to work with it:
> >
> > How to install?
> I expand the tarball to ~
...

This is my point: I'm too lazy and too old to find out for every
random application how to install, uninstall, upgrade it, find
out which version, if any, is installed on my system, whether
the software complies with the DFSG, etc.

> Surely you don't expect the Debian maintainers to fix bugs you could
> encounter in PyCharm?

I expect Debian maintainers to forward bugs to upstream, if they
assume, that the bug is not introduced by them. (For some highly
complex software, like Gnome or KDE, this is not practical, but
for many packages this should work.)

Cheers

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#9901 — snap in debian

Ghislain Vaillant <ghisvail@gmail.com> writes:

> May I ask what would be the benefit for pycharm to be in Debian, when we 
> already have the official Jetbrains Toolbox App or the snap package as 
> means to install and update the application?

For what its worth, last time I tried snap on Debian stable I found it
didn't work reliably.

I asked in Stack Overflow, and managed to backport the version of snap
from unstable. Where I encountered exactly the same problems as before:

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/46127373/snap-packages-on-debian-stable

So possibly at least one of my problems is a Kernel issue in Debian
stable (at least my current theory), however this seems to indicate to
me that snap is still somewhat bleeding edge and cannot be relied on.
-- 
Brian May <bam@debian.org>

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#9913 — Re: snap in debian

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snapd maintainer here...

On 2 October 2017 at 09:49, Brian May <bam@debian.org> wrote:

> Ghislain Vaillant <ghisvail@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > May I ask what would be the benefit for pycharm to be in Debian, when we
> > already have the official Jetbrains Toolbox App or the snap package as
> > means to install and update the application?
>
> For what its worth, last time I tried snap on Debian stable I found it
> didn't work reliably.
>

Can you elaborate? Do you have apparmor enabled? I am aware that there are
problems on stable currently but being explicit reduces guessing.

I hope that once the core snap is updated to get 2.28 things will be better
even on stable but I'm not 100% sure.

I asked in Stack Overflow, and managed to backport the version of snap
> from unstable. Where I encountered exactly the same problems as before:
>
> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/46127373/snap-
> packages-on-debian-stable


Can you try just installing the package from unstable rather than
rebuilding it? (sometimes static linking does solve problems :-p)

Cheers,
mwh

So possibly at least one of my problems is a Kernel issue in Debian
> stable (at least my current theory), however this seems to indicate to
> me that snap is still somewhat bleeding edge and cannot be relied on.
> --
> Brian May <bam@debian.org>
>
>

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#9914 — Re: snap in debian

Michael Hudson-Doyle <michael.hudson@canonical.com> writes:
> Can you elaborate? Do you have apparmor enabled? I am aware that there are
> problems on stable currently but being explicit reduces guessing.

See the stack overflow question. The major issue was the error when
trying to remove an existing container.

2017-09-09T15:08:29+10:00 ERROR cannot remove snap file "robotica", will retry in 3 mins: snap-robotica-x1.mount failed to stop: timeout

I also had problems with incorrect permissions randomly appearing, even
though I used exactly the same process every time.

> Can you try just installing the package from unstable rather than
> rebuilding it? (sometimes static linking does solve problems :-p)

I was guessing it won't be possible to install the package straight from
unstable onto a stable system, and am not interested in upgrading at
this point to unstable. However I might be wrong here. In any case, my
research led me to believe the first error *might* be a kernel
issue... I believe my packages to be fine.

The only response I got however was an implied "don't use snap" and "I
personally don't like the concept of snap". which wasn't really helpful.
-- 
Brian May <bam@debian.org>

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#9915 — Re: snap in debian

Michael Hudson-Doyle <michael.hudson@canonical.com> writes:

> Yes. Let's see if I can find some better answers...

Thanks!
-- 
Brian May <bam@debian.org>

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#9917 — Re: snap in debian

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On 5 October 2017 at 09:52, Brian May <bam@debian.org> wrote:

> Michael Hudson-Doyle <michael.hudson@canonical.com> writes:
> > Can you elaborate? Do you have apparmor enabled? I am aware that there
> are
> > problems on stable currently but being explicit reduces guessing.
>
> See the stack overflow question. The major issue was the error when
> trying to remove an existing container.
>
> 2017-09-09T15:08:29+10:00 ERROR cannot remove snap file "robotica", will
> retry in 3 mins: snap-robotica-x1.mount failed to stop: timeout
>

Ah OK. I've not seen this.

I also had problems with incorrect permissions randomly appearing, even
> though I used exactly the same process every time.


Or that. Time to rebuild my stretch vm I guess (I accidentally upgraded it
to sid...).

> Can you try just installing the package from unstable rather than
> > rebuilding it? (sometimes static linking does solve problems :-p)
>
> I was guessing it won't be possible to install the package straight from
> unstable onto a stable system, and am not interested in upgrading at
> this point to unstable. However I might be wrong here.


Yes, telling everyone to upgrade to unstable is not a good answer.

It does look to me from staring at Depends: as if snapd 2.27.6-2 from sid
will install OK on stretch. But I haven't tried it.

In any case, my
> research led me to believe the first error *might* be a kernel
> issue... I believe my packages to be fine.
>
> The only response I got however was an implied "don't use snap" and "I
> personally don't like the concept of snap". which wasn't really helpful.
>

Yes. Let's see if I can find some better answers...

Cheers,
mwh

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#9925 — Re: snap in debian

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On 5 October 2017 at 09:56, Michael Hudson-Doyle <
michael.hudson@canonical.com> wrote:

>
>
> On 5 October 2017 at 09:52, Brian May <bam@debian.org> wrote:
>
>> Michael Hudson-Doyle <michael.hudson@canonical.com> writes:
>> > Can you elaborate? Do you have apparmor enabled? I am aware that there
>> are
>> > problems on stable currently but being explicit reduces guessing.
>>
>> See the stack overflow question. The major issue was the error when
>> trying to remove an existing container.
>>
>> 2017-09-09T15:08:29+10:00 ERROR cannot remove snap file "robotica", will
>> retry in 3 mins: snap-robotica-x1.mount failed to stop: timeout
>>
>
> Ah OK. I've not seen this.
>
> I also had problems with incorrect permissions randomly appearing, even
>> though I used exactly the same process every time.
>
>
> Or that. Time to rebuild my stretch vm I guess (I accidentally upgraded it
> to sid...).
>

I've rebuilt my VM and things seem to mostly work (so long as I leave
apparmor off). Can you provide reproduction instructions for either of your
problems?


> > Can you try just installing the package from unstable rather than
>> > rebuilding it? (sometimes static linking does solve problems :-p)
>>
>> I was guessing it won't be possible to install the package straight from
>> unstable onto a stable system, and am not interested in upgrading at
>> this point to unstable. However I might be wrong here.
>
>
> Yes, telling everyone to upgrade to unstable is not a good answer.
>
> It does look to me from staring at Depends: as if snapd 2.27.6-2 from sid
> will install OK on stretch. But I haven't tried it.
>

You can install the deb from testing on stretch, it turns out.

Cheers,
mwh

In any case, my
>> research led me to believe the first error *might* be a kernel
>> issue... I believe my packages to be fine.
>>
>> The only response I got however was an implied "don't use snap" and "I
>> personally don't like the concept of snap". which wasn't really helpful.
>>
>
> Yes. Let's see if I can find some better answers...
>
> Cheers,
> mwh
>

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#9926 — Re: snap in debian

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On 9 October 2017 at 12:36, Brian May <brian@linuxpenguins.xyz> wrote:

> On 2017-10-09 10:30, Michael Hudson-Doyle wrote:
>
>
> I've rebuilt my VM and things seem to mostly work (so long as I leave
> apparmor off). Can you provide reproduction instructions for either of your
> problems?
>
>
> How did you "leave apparmor off"? Maybe this is the step I was missing...
>

It's the default for it to be off, so I doubt this is your problem unless
you have added "apparmor=1 security=apparmor" to your kernel command line.

Besides, the problems I get with apparmor are very different to what you
describe (snaps fail to run with permission denied errors, basically).

Cheers,
mwh

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#9927 — Re: snap in debian

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On 9 October 2017 at 13:22, Brian May <brian@linuxpenguins.xyz> wrote:

> On 2017-10-09 10:56, Michael Hudson-Doyle wrote:
>
>
> It's the default for it to be off, so I doubt this is your problem unless
> you have added "apparmor=1 security=apparmor" to your kernel command line.
>
> Besides, the problems I get with apparmor are very different to what you
> describe (snaps fail to run with permission denied errors, basically).
>
>
> How very odd, I was getting the first error every time I tried to remove
> or upgrade a snap.
>
> Will try again later.
>
Yay unreproducible bugs. If you manage to reproduce, please have a look in
syslog or systemd's journal for anything that looks related.

Cheers,
mwh

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#9939 — Re: snap in debian

Michael Hudson-Doyle <michael.hudson@canonical.com> writes:

> Yay unreproducible bugs. If you manage to reproduce, please have a look in
> syslog or systemd's journal for anything that looks related.

Not sure this helps me, maybe it might help somebody else? "Failed to
load configuration" might be relevant. What configuration?

This is a grep for hello in journalctl, after trying to remove the hello
snap. I couldn't see anything else relevant.

Oct 15 13:15:45 prune sudo[17326]:    brian : TTY=pts/1 ; PWD=[removed] ; USER=root ; COMMAND=/usr/bin/snap remove hello
Oct 15 13:15:46 prune systemd[1]: snap-hello-20.mount: Changed mounted -> dead
Oct 15 13:15:46 prune systemd[1843]: snap-hello-20.mount: Changed mounted -> dead
Oct 15 13:15:46 prune systemd[1843]: snap-hello-20.mount: Collecting.
Oct 15 13:15:46 prune systemd[1]: Sent message type=signal sender=n/a destination=n/a object=/org/freedesktop/systemd1/unit/snap_2dhello_2d20_2emount interface=org.freedesktop.DBus.Properties member=PropertiesChanged cookie=2105 reply_cookie=0 error=n/a
Oct 15 13:15:46 prune systemd[1]: Sent message type=signal sender=n/a destination=n/a object=/org/freedesktop/systemd1/unit/snap_2dhello_2d20_2emount interface=org.freedesktop.DBus.Properties member=PropertiesChanged cookie=2106 reply_cookie=0 error=n/a
Oct 15 13:15:46 prune systemd-logind[632]: Got message type=signal sender=:1.0 destination=n/a object=/org/freedesktop/systemd1/unit/snap_2dhello_2d20_2emount interface=org.freedesktop.DBus.Properties member=PropertiesChanged cookie=2105 reply_cookie=0 error=n/a
Oct 15 13:15:46 prune systemd[1413]: snap-hello-20.mount: Changed mounted -> dead
Oct 15 13:15:46 prune systemd[1413]: snap-hello-20.mount: Collecting.
Oct 15 13:15:46 prune systemd-logind[632]: Got message type=signal sender=:1.0 destination=n/a object=/org/freedesktop/systemd1/unit/snap_2dhello_2d20_2emount interface=org.freedesktop.DBus.Properties member=PropertiesChanged cookie=2106 reply_cookie=0 error=n/a
Oct 15 13:15:46 prune systemd[1]: snap-hello-20.mount: Trying to enqueue job snap-hello-20.mount/stop/replace
Oct 15 13:15:46 prune systemd[1]: snap-hello-20.mount: Installed new job snap-hello-20.mount/stop as 3721
Oct 15 13:15:46 prune systemd[1]: snap-hello-20.mount: Enqueued job snap-hello-20.mount/stop as 3721
Oct 15 13:15:46 prune systemd[1]: snap-hello-20.mount: Job snap-hello-20.mount/stop finished, result=done
Oct 15 13:15:46 prune systemd[1]: Got message type=method_call sender=n/a destination=org.freedesktop.systemd1 object=/org/freedesktop/systemd1/unit/snap_2dhello_2d20_2emount interface=org.freedesktop.DBus.Properties member=Get cookie=3 reply_cookie=0 error=n/a
Oct 15 13:15:46 prune systemd[1]: Got message type=method_call sender=n/a destination=org.freedesktop.systemd1 object=/org/freedesktop/systemd1/unit/snap_2dhello_2d20_2emount interface=org.freedesktop.DBus.Properties member=Get cookie=4 reply_cookie=0 error=n/a
Oct 15 13:15:46 prune systemd[1]: Got message type=method_call sender=n/a destination=org.freedesktop.systemd1 object=/org/freedesktop/systemd1/unit/snap_2dhello_2d20_2emount interface=org.freedesktop.DBus.Properties member=Get cookie=5 reply_cookie=0 error=n/a
Oct 15 13:15:46 prune systemd[1]: Got message type=method_call sender=n/a destination=org.freedesktop.systemd1 object=/org/freedesktop/systemd1/unit/snap_2dhello_2d20_2emount interface=org.freedesktop.DBus.Properties member=GetAll cookie=1 reply_cookie=0 error=n/a
Oct 15 13:15:46 prune systemd[1]: Preset files don't specify rule for snap-hello-20.mount. Enabling.
Oct 15 13:15:46 prune systemd[1]: Got message type=method_call sender=n/a destination=org.freedesktop.systemd1 object=/org/freedesktop/systemd1/unit/snap_2dhello_2d20_2emount interface=org.freedesktop.DBus.Properties member=GetAll cookie=1 reply_cookie=0 error=n/a
Oct 15 13:15:46 prune systemd[1]: Got message type=method_call sender=n/a destination=org.freedesktop.systemd1 object=/org/freedesktop/systemd1/unit/snap_2dhello_2d20_2emount interface=org.freedesktop.DBus.Properties member=GetAll cookie=1 reply_cookie=0 error=n/a
Oct 15 13:18:47 prune systemd[1]: snap-hello-20.mount: Failed to load configuration: No such file or directory
Oct 15 13:18:47 prune systemd[1]: snap-hello-20.mount: Collecting.

-- 
Brian May <bam@debian.org>

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#9906

On Sun, Oct 1, 2017 at 12:26 AM, Ghislain Vaillant <ghisvail@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> May I ask what would be the benefit for pycharm to be in Debian, when we
> already have the official Jetbrains Toolbox App or the snap package as means
> to install and update the application?

>From an end user point of view, the benefit of having pycharm in
Debian is good as having any other package - to be able to use the
tools in Debian ecosystem, not worry about conflicts with other
packages, get support from Debian mailing lists etc., etc.,

-- 
Kamaraju S Kusumanchi | http://raju.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Blog

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