Groups > linux.debian.maint.python > #14751

Re: Python 3.11 for bookworm?

Path	csiph.com!aioe.org!bofh.it!news.nic.it!robomod
From	Julian Gilbey <julian@d-and-j.net>
Newsgroups	linux.debian.maint.python
Subject	Re: Python 3.11 for bookworm?
Date	Mon, 19 Dec 2022 10:50:01 +0100
Message-ID	<FEkWt-bGUq-5@gated-at.bofh.it> (permalink)
References	<FC0Sf-agdq-21@gated-at.bofh.it> <FCcJI-anCR-7@gated-at.bofh.it> <FCYbD-aR45-5@gated-at.bofh.it> <FE6gN-bya3-3@gated-at.bofh.it>
X-Mailbox-Line	From debian-python-request@lists.debian.org Mon Dec 19 09:41:59 2022
Old-Return-Path	<julian@d-and-j.net>
X-Amavis-Spam-Status	No, score=-7.2 tagged_above=-10000 required=5.3 tests=[BAYES_00=-2, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, LDO_WHITELIST=-5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
X-Policyd-Weight	using cached result; rate: -4.6
MIME-Version	1.0
Content-Type	text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition	inline
X-Mailing-List	<debian-python@lists.debian.org> archive/latest/20618
List-ID	<debian-python.lists.debian.org>
List-URL	<https://lists.debian.org/debian-python/>
List-Archive	https://lists.debian.org/msgid-search/Y6Ax0r6c4XOL8mRZ@d-and-j.net
Approved	robomod@news.nic.it
Lines	45
Organization	linux.* mail to news gateway
Sender	robomod@news.nic.it
X-Original-Cc	Debian Python <debian-python@lists.debian.org>, Graham Inggs <ginggs@debian.org>
X-Original-Date	Mon, 19 Dec 2022 09:41:38 +0000
X-Original-Message-ID	<Y6Ax0r6c4XOL8mRZ@d-and-j.net>
X-Original-References	<CAM8zJQutSSUGjSRjK+jEzd6XMtMTFBrM6dPPKpUcbnexTKADSw@mail.gmail.com> <Y5hxSP5g0tgi9e90@d-and-j.net> <a8f03680-8b1a-bd01-1575-31ec8ec3ed76@debian.org> <Y59V0iVxEBEtNhf/@d-and-j.net>
Xref	csiph.com linux.debian.maint.python:14751

Show key headers only | View raw

On Sun, Dec 18, 2022 at 06:02:58PM +0000, Julian Gilbey wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 15, 2022 at 04:10:05PM +0100, Thomas Goirand wrote:
> > On 12/13/22 13:34, Julian Gilbey wrote:
> > > If Python 3.11 is the default, then it is highly likely that Spyder
> > > will not be included: debugpy, which is a dependency of Spyder and
> > > python3-ipykernel (and lots of things that depend on that) seems to
> > > require major work upstream to make it fully compatible with Python
> > > 3.11.  This is work in progress, but I don't know whether it will be
> > > ready in time for the freeze.  At the moment, I have worked around
> > > this problem by just skipping the failing tests, but that is far from
> > > an ideal solution.
> > 
> > It's probably ok if it's a *TEMPORARY* solution until upstream fixes
> > everything in time for the release (which is months after the freeze). The
> > question is: do you believe this may happen for let's say next March?
> 
> The truth is that I don't know.  Upstream is very good, but the Python
> 3.11 internal changes are very significant, and debugpy (along with
> pydevd, which is part of debugpy) are deeply affected by this, as they
> work at the level of Python's internals.  So I don't know how long it
> will take them to make the required changes (and it's far beyond my
> capability or capacity to do myself).  I can hope they'll do it in
> time for the freeze, but I wouldn't like to place a bet on it.

Quick update: with the updating of python3-bytecode from 0.13 to 0.14
in unstable/testing, which allows it to handle Python 3.11, something
has changed and now pydevd doesn't even pass the tests on Python
3.10.  The python3-bytecode underwent a major restructuring, so it is
entirely possible that something has changed that wasn't part of the
advertised API or something like that.  But that's for upstream pydevd
developers to deal with.

One possibility is that we revert to the situation in bullseye if
pydevd is not ready in time for the freeze.  Bullseye didn't have
bytecode/pydevd/debugpy, and it meant that debugging was limited in
Spyder: we remove python3-debugpy from the dependencies of
python3-ipykernel and then the rest of the dependency chain will be
OK.  It's certainly not an ideal solution, but it may be the best we
can do if we're sticking with Python 3.11.  It may actually be worth
doing that at this point so that Spyder can stay in testing for the
time being, even though pydevd and debugpy won't.

Best wishes,

   Julian

Thread

Python 3.11 for bookworm? Graham Inggs <ginggs@debian.org> - 2022-12-13 01:00 +0100
  Re: Python 3.11 for bookworm? Andrius Merkys <merkys@debian.org> - 2022-12-13 08:20 +0100
    Re: Python 3.11 for bookworm? Graham Inggs <ginggs@debian.org> - 2022-12-13 19:50 +0100
  Re: Python 3.11 for bookworm? Timo Röhling <roehling@debian.org> - 2022-12-13 10:20 +0100
    Re: Python 3.11 for bookworm? c.buhtz@posteo.jp - 2022-12-13 11:00 +0100
      Re: Python 3.11 for bookworm? Dmitry Shachnev <mitya57@debian.org> - 2022-12-13 11:10 +0100
      Re: Python 3.11 for bookworm? Thomas Goirand <zigo@debian.org> - 2022-12-15 16:10 +0100
        Re: Python 3.11 for bookworm? Dmitry Shachnev <mitya57@debian.org> - 2022-12-15 17:20 +0100
  Re: Python 3.11 for bookworm? Julian Gilbey <julian@d-and-j.net> - 2022-12-13 13:40 +0100
    Re: Python 3.11 for bookworm? Thomas Goirand <zigo@debian.org> - 2022-12-15 16:20 +0100
      Re: Python 3.11 for bookworm? Julian Gilbey <julian@d-and-j.net> - 2022-12-18 19:10 +0100
        Re: Python 3.11 for bookworm? Julian Gilbey <julian@d-and-j.net> - 2022-12-19 10:50 +0100
          Re: Python 3.11 for bookworm? Jochen Sprickerhof <jspricke@debian.org> - 2022-12-19 17:00 +0100
            Re: Python 3.11 for bookworm? Julian Gilbey <julian@d-and-j.net> - 2022-12-19 21:30 +0100
  Re: Python 3.11 for bookworm? Louis-Philippe Véronneau <pollo@debian.org> - 2022-12-13 17:10 +0100
  Re: Python 3.11 for bookworm? Thomas Goirand <zigo@debian.org> - 2022-12-15 16:20 +0100
    Re: Python 3.11 for bookworm? Thomas Goirand <zigo@debian.org> - 2022-12-16 10:50 +0100

csiph-web