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Groups > comp.theory > #134206
| From | Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.theory, comp.ai.philosophy |
| Subject | Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 |
| Date | 2025-10-29 17:21 +0000 |
| Organization | A noiseless patient Spider |
| Message-ID | <20251029091814.331@kylheku.com> (permalink) |
| References | (25 earlier) <10drnch$2igce$1@dont-email.me> <20251028190906.519@kylheku.com> <10drv15$2k56f$1@dont-email.me> <20251028210424.40@kylheku.com> <10dtedd$31n47$1@dont-email.me> |
Cross-posted to 2 groups.
On 2025-10-29, olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 10/29/2025 12:36 AM, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
>> On 2025-10-29, olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 10/28/2025 9:19 PM, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
>>>> On 2025-10-29, olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 10/28/2025 7:25 PM, Kaz Kylheku wrote:
>>>>>> Under your system, I don't know whether Y is correct.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Y could be a broken decider that is wrongly deciding D (and /that/
>>>>>> is why its execution trace differs from X).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Or it could be the case that D is a non-input to Y, in which case Y is
>>>>>> deemed to be correct because D being a non-input to Y means that D
>>>>>> denotes non-halting semantics to Y (and /that/ is why its execution
>>>>>> trace differs from X).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The fact that the execution trace differs doesn't inform.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We need to know the value of is_input(Y, D): we need to /decide/ whether
>>>>>> D is non-input or input to Y in order to /decide/ whether its rejection
>>>>>> is correct.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Whatever is a correct simulation of an input by
>>>>> a decider is the behavior that must be reported on.
>>>>
>>>> But under your system, if I am a user of deciders, and have been
>>>> given a decider H which is certified to be correct, I cannot
>>>> rely on it to decide halting.
>>>>
>>>
>>> When halting is defined correctly:
>>> Does this input specify a sequence of moves that
>>> reach a final halt state?
>>>
>>> and not defined incorrectly: to require something
>>> that is not specified in the input then this does
>>> overcome the halting problem proof and shows that
>>> the halting problem itself has always been a category
>>> error. (Flibble's brilliant term).
>>>
>>>> I want to know whether D halts, that's all.
>>>>
>>>> H says no. It is certified correct under your paradigm, so
>>>> so I don't have to suspect that if it is given an /input/
>>>> it will be wrong.
>>>>
>>>> But: I have no idea whether D is an input to H or a non-input!
>>>>
>>>
>>> That is ridiculous. If it is an argument
>>> to the decider function then it is an input.
>>
>> So how it's supposed to work that an otherwise halting D
>> is a non-halting input to H.
>>
>
> int D()
> {
> int Halt_Status = H(D);
> if (Halt_Status)
> HERE: goto HERE;
> return Halt_Status;
> }
>
> H simulates D
> that calls H(D) to simulate D
> that calls H(D) to simulate D
> that calls H(D) to simulate D
> that calls H(D) to simulate D
> that calls H(D) to simulate D
> until H sees this repeating pattern.
>
>> When the non-halting D is an input to H (which it undeniably as you have
>> now decided) D is non-halting.
>>
>
> D.input_to_H is non-halting is confirmed in that
> D simulated by cannot possibly reach its own
> "return" statement final halt state. This divides
> non-halting from stopping running.
>
>> With respect to H, it's as if the halting D exists in another dimension;
>> /that/ D is not the input.
>>
>> Okay, but anyway ...
>>
>> - The decider user has some program P..
>>
>> - P terminates, but it takes three years on the user's hardware.
>>
>> - The user does not know this; they tried running P for weeks,
>> months, but it never terminated.
>>
>> - The user has H which they have been assured is correct under
>> the Olcott Halting Paradigm.
>>
>> - The applies H to P, and H rejects it.
>>
>
> The would mean that P has specifically targeted
> H in an attempt to thwart a correct assessment.
>
>> - The program P is actually D, but the user doesn't know this.
>>
>
> The system works on source-code.
Whatever results you have, they have to be valid
for any representation of Turing machines whatsoever.
Source code can be obfuscated, as well as extremely large and
obfuscated.
That the user can have source code (not required at all by the Turing
model) doesn't change that the user has no idea that P is actually a D
program with respect to their halting decider.
Also, the question "is this input P a diagonal input targetin this
decider H" is an undecidable problem!!!
>> What should the user believe? Does D halt or not?
>>
>
> When the input P targets the decider H or does not target
> the decider H input P simulated by decider H always reports
> on the basis of whether P can reach its own final halt state.
But that's not the output we want; we want to know whether P()
halts.
>> How is the user /not/ deceived if they believe that P doesn't halt?
>>
>>>> When H says 0, I have no idea whether it's being judged non-halting
>>>> as an input, or whether it's being judged as a non-input (whereby
>>>> either value is the correct answer as far as H is concerned).
>>>>
>>>
>>> Judging by anything besides and input has always
>>> been incorrect. H(D) maps its input to a reject
>>> value on the basis of the behavior that this
>>> argument to H specifies.
>>
>> But that behavior is only real /as/ an argument to H; it is not the
>> behavior that the halter-decider customer wants reported on.
>>
>
> When what the customer wants and what is in the scope of
> Turing machines differ the user must face reality.
So under your paradigm, the user is told they must face reality: some
machines cannot be decided, so you cannot get an answer for whether P()
halts. Sometimes you get answer for whether P is considered to be
halting when simulated by H, which doesn't match whether P() halts. Suck
it up!
That's just a stupidly convoluted version of what they are told
under the standard Halting Problem, which informs them that for
every halting decider, there are inputs for which it is wrong or
nonterminating.
You are not improving the standard halting problem and its theorem
one iota; just vandalizing it with impertinent content and details.
Under your paradigm, a halting decider reports rubbish for some inputs,
and is called correct; e.g. rejecting a halting input.
How is what you are doing different from calling a tail "leg",
and claiming that canines are five-legged animals?
> There
> may be practical workarounds these are outside the scope
> of the theoretical limits.
I cannot think of any example of an engineering technique
which overcomes theoretical limits.
There are no workarounds for the undecidability of halting;
you can only work within the limits not overcome them.
> The halting problem has always been incorrect, so just
> like ZFC eliminated Russell's Paradox I have eliminated
> the halting problem.
Only, you've not eliminated it sufficently far that wouldn't have to
tell the halting decider client to accept reality?
ZFC eliminating Russel's Paradox is a formal-system-level
change.
You're not changing the formal system; you are staying in
the Turing Model.
Also, Russel's Paradox is nonsense. Whereas a program H
deciding a program P which integrates H itself in some shape
is not nonsense; it is constructible.
Get it? Russel's silly set cannot even be imagined, let alone
constructedd.
Failing test cases for halting can be constructed; they
are real.
--
TXR Programming Language: http://nongnu.org/txr
Cygnal: Cygwin Native Application Library: http://kylheku.com/cygnal
Mastodon: @Kazinator@mstdn.ca
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lol. An AI response to Olcott... "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-18 13:44 -0700
Re: lol. An AI response to Olcott... dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-10-18 18:03 -0700
Re: lol. An AI response to Olcott... olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-18 20:08 -0500
Re: lol. An AI response to Olcott... Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-10-19 16:12 +0100
Re: lol. An AI response to Olcott... "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-19 12:27 -0700
Re: lol. An AI response to Olcott... Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2025-10-20 04:39 +0100
Re: lol. An AI response to Olcott... olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-19 23:18 -0500
Re: lol. An AI response to Olcott... "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-20 13:04 -0700
Re: lol. An AI response to Olcott... Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2025-10-21 18:47 +0100
Re: lol. An AI response to Olcott... "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-21 14:12 -0700
Re: lol. An AI response to Olcott... "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-21 14:15 -0700
Re: lol. An AI response to Olcott... "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-21 14:37 -0700
Re: lol. An AI response to Olcott... "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-21 15:03 -0700
Re: lol. An AI response to Olcott... Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2025-10-22 00:08 +0100
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Re: lol. An AI response to Olcott... Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2025-10-22 01:43 +0100
Re: lol. An AI response to Olcott... Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2025-10-22 01:48 +0100
Re: lol. An AI response to Olcott... "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-21 20:00 -0700
Re: lol. An AI response to Olcott... "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-21 20:46 -0700
Re: lol. An AI response to Olcott... "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-21 20:49 -0700
Re: lol. An AI response to Olcott... "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 12:33 -0700
Re: lol. An AI response to Olcott... "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 13:28 -0700
Re: lol. An AI response to Olcott... Is Provable Correct olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-21 20:43 -0500
Re: lol. An AI response to Olcott... Is Provable Correct "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 12:18 -0700
Re: lol. An AI response to Olcott... Tristan Wibberley <tristan.wibberley+netnews2@alumni.manchester.ac.uk> - 2025-10-20 12:30 +0100
Re: lol. An AI response to Olcott... olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-20 10:04 -0500
Re: lol. An AI response to Olcott... "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-20 13:07 -0700
Re: lol. An AI response to Olcott... Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2025-10-19 04:08 +0100
Re: lol. An AI response to Olcott... olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-18 23:19 -0500
Re: lol. An AI response to Olcott... Mike Terry <news.dead.person.stones@darjeeling.plus.com> - 2025-10-19 17:05 +0100
Re: lol. An AI response to Olcott... olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-19 11:31 -0500
Re: lol. An AI response to Olcott... olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-18 23:01 -0500
Re: lol. An AI response to Olcott... Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-19 19:39 +0000
Re: lol. An AI response to Olcott... olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-20 10:28 -0500
Re: lol. An AI response to Olcott... Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-20 18:29 +0000
Re: lol. An AI response to Olcott... olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-20 15:32 -0500
Re: lol. An AI response to Olcott... Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-20 21:03 +0000
Re: lol. An AI response to Olcott... olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-20 18:58 -0500
Re: lol. An AI response to Olcott... Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-21 01:27 +0000
Re: lol. An AI response to Olcott... olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-20 20:33 -0500
Re: lol. An AI response to Olcott... Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-21 02:11 +0000
Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-20 22:00 -0500
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-20 23:05 -0400
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-20 22:13 -0500
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-20 23:16 -0400
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-20 22:25 -0500
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-20 23:29 -0400
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-21 03:20 +0000
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-20 22:29 -0500
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 06:56 -0500
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 08:25 -0400
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 07:48 -0500
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 09:00 -0400
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 08:47 -0500
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 09:50 -0400
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 09:25 -0500
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 joes <noreply@example.org> - 2025-10-22 15:04 +0000
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 10:08 -0500
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 joes <noreply@example.org> - 2025-10-22 15:38 +0000
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 10:40 -0500
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 joes <noreply@example.org> - 2025-10-22 15:53 +0000
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 11:13 -0500
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 joes <noreply@example.org> - 2025-10-22 18:55 +0000
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 13:30 -0400
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 joes <noreply@example.org> - 2025-10-22 13:34 +0000
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 08:43 -0500
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 09:46 -0400
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-22 15:40 +0000
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 10:47 -0500
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-22 17:07 +0000
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 12:11 -0500
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 13:38 -0400
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-22 18:40 +0000
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2025-10-22 13:24 -0600
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 14:30 -0500
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 15:31 -0400
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-10-22 20:34 +0100
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-22 19:52 +0000
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 15:00 -0500
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-22 20:20 +0000
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 15:35 -0500
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 16:43 -0400
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 --- NST olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 16:12 -0500
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 --- NST "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 14:32 -0700
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 --- NST dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 17:50 -0400
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 --- NST Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-22 23:01 +0000
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 --- NST olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-23 09:55 -0500
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 --- NST Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-23 16:47 +0000
"there will still be a nested simulation tower" Kaz olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-23 12:22 -0500
Re: "there will still be a nested simulation tower" Kaz "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-23 11:50 -0700
Re: "there will still be a nested simulation tower" Kaz Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-23 21:11 +0000
Re: "there will still be a nested simulation tower" Kaz joes <noreply@example.org> - 2025-10-23 21:33 +0000
Re: "there will still be a nested simulation tower" Kaz olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-23 17:14 -0500
Re: "there will still be a nested simulation tower" Kaz Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-23 23:41 +0000
Re: "there will still be a nested simulation tower" Kaz joes <noreply@example.org> - 2025-10-24 07:34 +0000
Re: "there will still be a nested simulation tower" Kaz olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-24 02:47 -0500
Re: "there will still be a nested simulation tower" Kaz joes <noreply@example.org> - 2025-10-24 12:04 +0000
Re: "there will still be a nested simulation tower" Kaz olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-24 09:54 -0500
Re: "there will still be a nested simulation tower" Kaz Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-10-25 15:36 +0300
Re: "there will still be a nested simulation tower" Kaz olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-25 15:30 -0500
Re: "there will still be a nested simulation tower" Kaz "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-25 13:34 -0700
Re: "there will still be a nested simulation tower" Kaz Mikko <mikko.levanto@iki.fi> - 2025-10-26 14:03 +0200
Re: "there will still be a nested simulation tower" Kaz joes <noreply@example.org> - 2025-10-28 15:39 +0000
D simulated by H cannot possibly reach past its own first line olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-28 11:40 -0500
"there will still be a nested simulation tower" Kaz olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-23 17:08 -0500
Re: "there will still be a nested simulation tower" Kaz "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-23 15:21 -0700
Re: "there will still be a nested simulation tower" Kaz "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-23 15:26 -0700
Re: "there will still be a nested simulation tower" Kaz dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-23 18:40 -0400
Re: "there will still be a nested simulation tower" Kaz olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-23 17:48 -0500
Re: "there will still be a nested simulation tower" Kaz dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-23 19:09 -0400
Re: "there will still be a nested simulation tower" Kaz Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-23 23:55 +0000
Re: "there will still be a nested simulation tower" Kaz olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-23 19:00 -0500
Re: "there will still be a nested simulation tower" Kaz Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-23 23:45 +0000
Re: "there will still be a nested simulation tower" Kaz olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-23 18:51 -0500
Re: "there will still be a nested simulation tower" Kaz dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-23 20:14 -0400
"there will still be a nested simulation tower" Kaz olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 17:14 -0500
Re: "there will still be a nested simulation tower" Kaz dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 18:33 -0400
Re: "there will still be a nested simulation tower" Kaz Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-22 23:15 +0000
Re: "there will still be a nested simulation tower" Kaz olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 18:24 -0500
Re: "there will still be a nested simulation tower" Kaz dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 20:14 -0400
Re: "there will still be a nested simulation tower" Kaz Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-23 01:22 +0000
Re: "there will still be a nested simulation tower" Kaz olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 20:47 -0500
Re: "there will still be a nested simulation tower" Kaz dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 22:13 -0400
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2025-10-23 08:02 +0200
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-23 09:51 -0500
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 14:55 -0500
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 16:24 -0400
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-22 21:55 +0000
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 joes <noreply@example.org> - 2025-10-22 18:54 +0000
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 14:00 -0500
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 joes <noreply@example.org> - 2025-10-22 19:27 +0000
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 14:31 -0500
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 15:32 -0400
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 joes <noreply@example.org> - 2025-10-22 19:37 +0000
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 14:45 -0500
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 15:45 -0400
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-22 19:56 +0000
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 15:04 -0500
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-22 22:02 +0000
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 17:07 -0500
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-22 23:12 +0000
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 19:46 -0500
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-23 02:47 +0000
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 22:12 -0500
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-23 13:09 -0700
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 14:41 -0500
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 15:44 -0400
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 14:45 -0500
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 15:46 -0400
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 15:28 -0400
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-22 19:55 +0000
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 15:01 -0500
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-22 21:56 +0000
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 17:00 -0500
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-22 23:04 +0000
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 14:25 -0500
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 15:29 -0400
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 joes <noreply@example.org> - 2025-10-22 19:30 +0000
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 14:43 -0500
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 15:45 -0400
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-22 20:17 +0000
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 15:32 -0500
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 14:38 -0700
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 13:10 -0700
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-22 20:15 +0000
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 15:30 -0500
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-22 13:36 -0400
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 joes <noreply@example.org> - 2025-10-28 08:35 +0000
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-28 09:36 -0500
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-28 16:33 +0000
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-28 11:49 -0500
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-28 14:23 -0400
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-28 19:04 +0000
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-28 12:19 -0700
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-28 16:01 -0400
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-28 17:50 -0700
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-28 15:51 -0500
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-28 17:58 -0400
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2025-10-29 03:16 +0000
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-28 22:26 -0500
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-28 23:34 -0400
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-29 05:45 +0000
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2025-10-29 07:32 -0400
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-29 13:31 -0700
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-28 16:35 +0000
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-28 12:13 -0500
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 joes <noreply@example.org> - 2025-10-28 18:32 +0000
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-28 13:46 -0500
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 joes <noreply@example.org> - 2025-10-28 19:28 +0000
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-28 15:53 -0500
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 joes <noreply@example.org> - 2025-10-28 21:06 +0000
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-28 16:14 -0500
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-29 14:31 -0700
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-28 19:37 +0000
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-28 15:57 -0500
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 joes <noreply@example.org> - 2025-10-28 21:09 +0000
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-28 16:22 -0500
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-28 21:43 +0000
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-28 16:53 -0500
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-28 22:03 +0000
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-28 17:08 -0500
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-28 22:18 +0000
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-28 17:59 -0400
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-28 22:14 +0000
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-28 17:28 -0500
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-28 23:52 +0000
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-28 19:01 -0500
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-29 00:25 +0000
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-28 19:33 -0500
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-28 17:56 -0700
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-28 17:57 -0700
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-29 02:19 +0000
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-28 21:43 -0500
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2025-10-28 23:07 -0400
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-29 05:36 +0000
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-29 11:12 -0500
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-29 17:21 +0000
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-29 14:38 -0500
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-29 15:16 -0700
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-10-29 18:21 +0000
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-29 14:13 -0500
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-29 15:13 -0700
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 joes <noreply@example.org> - 2025-11-03 14:12 +0000
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-03 10:20 -0600
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 joes <noreply@example.org> - 2025-11-03 17:06 +0000
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-03 11:22 -0600
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 joes <noreply@example.org> - 2025-11-03 17:26 +0000
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-03 11:55 -0600
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 Mr Flibble <flibble@red-dwarf.jmc.corp> - 2025-11-03 17:57 +0000
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-03 20:29 +0000
Addressing duffer-speak olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-03 14:46 -0600
Re: Addressing duffer-speak Kaz Kylheku <643-408-1753@kylheku.com> - 2025-11-03 20:59 +0000
Re: Addressing duffer-speak olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-11-03 15:03 -0600
Re: Addressing duffer-speak "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-03 13:00 -0800
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 joes <noreply@example.org> - 2025-10-29 09:47 +0000
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-29 08:40 -0500
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 joes <noreply@example.org> - 2025-10-29 14:12 +0000
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-29 11:15 -0500
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 joes <noreply@example.org> - 2025-10-29 16:37 +0000
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-29 11:54 -0500
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 joes <noreply@example.org> - 2025-10-29 17:24 +0000
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-29 12:37 -0500
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-29 13:44 -0400
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-29 12:55 -0500
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 dbush <dbush.mobile@gmail.com> - 2025-10-29 15:42 -0400
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 joes <noreply@example.org> - 2025-10-29 17:49 +0000
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-29 13:00 -0500
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-29 14:15 -0700
fuck chris dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-10-29 14:17 -0700
Re: fuck chris olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-29 16:44 -0500
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 olcott <polcott333@gmail.com> - 2025-10-29 14:53 -0500
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-29 14:14 -0700
fuck chris dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-10-29 14:16 -0700
Re: fuck chris "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-29 14:40 -0700
Re: fuck chris dart200 <user7160@newsgrouper.org.invalid> - 2025-10-29 14:42 -0700
Re: fuck chris "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-29 15:22 -0700
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-29 14:11 -0700
Re: Never any actual rebuttal to HHH(DD)==0 Since 10/13/2022 "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-10-29 14:29 -0700
Re: lol. An AI response to Olcott... "Chris M. Thomasson" <chris.m.thomasson.1@gmail.com> - 2025-11-14 22:02 -0800
csiph-web