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WWDC

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  WWDC Peter Kozlov <pkoz@blacksea.design> - 2018-05-22 09:34 -0700
    Re: WWDC Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-22 12:14 -0700
    Re: WWDC JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2018-05-22 16:30 -0400
      Re: WWDC nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2018-05-22 16:46 -0400
      Re: WWDC Calum <com.gmail@nospam.scottishwildcat> - 2018-05-23 00:32 +0100
    Re: WWDC Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2018-05-23 09:06 +1200
      Re: WWDC nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2018-05-22 17:10 -0400
        Re: WWDC Peter Kozlov <pkoz@blacksea.design> - 2018-05-22 19:16 -0700
          Re: WWDC JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2018-05-23 03:24 -0400
            Re: WWDC Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2018-05-23 19:49 +1200
              Re: WWDC Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-23 02:53 -0700
                Re: WWDC Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-24 03:51 -0700
            Re: WWDC Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2018-05-23 22:52 +0000
              Re: WWDC Peter Kozlov <pkoz@blacksea.design> - 2018-05-24 10:40 -0700
                Re: WWDC Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2018-05-25 09:12 +1200
                  Re: WWDC Peter Kozlov <pkoz@blacksea.design> - 2018-05-24 14:19 -0700
                    Re: WWDC Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2018-05-25 15:50 +1200
                      Re: WWDC android <here@there.was> - 2018-05-25 08:05 +0200
                      Re: WWDC Peter Kozlov <pkoz@blacksea.design> - 2018-05-25 07:39 -0700
                        Re: WWDC Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2018-05-26 11:13 +1200
                  Re: WWDC Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-24 16:18 -0700
      Re: WWDC Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-22 17:00 -0700
    Re: WWDC Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2018-05-23 02:13 +0000
      Re: WWDC Peter Kozlov <pkoz@blacksea.design> - 2018-05-22 19:30 -0700
        Re: WWDC Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2018-05-23 18:35 +1200
          Re: WWDC Steve Carroll <frelwizzen@gmail.com> - 2018-05-23 00:48 -0700
          Re: WWDC nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2018-05-23 08:46 -0400

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#116554 — WWDC

Wow, WWDC snuck up on me this year. I haven’t been keeping up at all.

I’d like to see a completely virtual keyboard on glass similar to the iPad 
method of on-screen keyboard as an option to the regular keyboard. No one 
else likes he idea so not holding my breath.So gone are the mechanics of the 
physical keyboard. Just glass where the keyboard is now and you get a virtual 
keyboard that can morph as needed.

Would also like to see Files updated to be closer to Finder on the Mac.

I’d also like the MacBook to get FaceID.

It’s also time to see a new Pro machine that is modular.

Lastly, a new iMac that removes all the boarders around the screen and 
consumes less space.

What are guys hoping for?

-- 
Peter Kozlov

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#116555

On Tuesday, May 22, 2018 at 9:34:29 AM UTC-7, Peter Kozlov wrote:
> Wow, WWDC snuck up on me this year. I haven’t been keeping up at all.
> 
> I’d like to see a completely virtual keyboard on glass similar to the iPad 
> method of on-screen keyboard as an option to the regular keyboard. No one 
> else likes he idea so not holding my breath.So gone are the mechanics of the 
> physical keyboard. Just glass where the keyboard is now and you get a virtual 
> keyboard that can morph as needed.
> 
> Would also like to see Files updated to be closer to Finder on the Mac.
> 
> I’d also like the MacBook to get FaceID.
> 
> It’s also time to see a new Pro machine that is modular.
> 
> Lastly, a new iMac that removes all the boarders around the screen and 
> consumes less space.
> 
> What are guys hoping for?
> 
> -- 
> Peter Kozlov



At times, an inner world is more valuable than truth. Are you being idiotic on purpose? 

I just set an automation and don't see the posts. Onion Knight's attack has made an utter disaster of usenet via GG, so I don't even try reading the group with my client anymore. One thing he has accomplished with this behavior though is that the Onion Knight plonk will never be lifted. 

- 
E-commerce Simplified!!
http://tinyurl.com/kmqe66h
Jonas Eklundh Communication AB

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#116558

On 2018-05-22 12:34, Peter Kozlov wrote:

> I’d like to see a completely virtual keyboard on glass similar to the iPad 

Considering few apps make use to reconfigure the virtual row of keys on
a couple of laptop models, I am not sure Apple would want to go that way
in terms of virtualizing the keyboard. (in such a case, it would be a
WWDC announcement since it would tell developpers to start preoaring for
reconfigurable keyboards).

BUT, if Apple were to just do glass keyboards, then it is more likely
the app APIs would not change and the glass keyboard would apear as a
regular keyboard, gnerating same keycodes etc, and if there is no API
changes, then no need to unveil at WWDC.


> I’d also like the MacBook to get FaceID.

It can be done, but represents challenges to ensure that the data cannot
leak to some application/Internet. Think privacy.  iPhones have special
hardware (secure enclave) etc that totally separate processing and
storing of ID data (whether face of fingerprint). And the sensors are
encrypted/paired with secure enclave for security, but this also has
major maintenance issues (can't replace a sensor yourself since Apple
has to use special tool to pair new sensor with secure enclave.

> It’s also time to see a new Pro machine that is modular.

Bring back the 2009 Macpro swith repleaceable power supply, and with not
such SATA ports, but also NVMe/PCIe ports for SSD.


> What are guys hoping for?

Bring back Snow Leopard. Stop introducing bells and whistles for the
sake of bells and whistles and focus on stability and running on Apple's
own hardware without bugs (like window server freezing whole system on
mac Pro 2013).

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#116559

In article <c5%MC.239505$DS3.47170@fx42.iad>, JF Mezei
<jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:

> 
> > I¹d also like the MacBook to get FaceID.
> 
> It can be done, but represents challenges to ensure that the data cannot
> leak to some application/Internet. 

not on current hardware, it can't.

face id requires a true-depth camera, which does not exist on any
currently shipping mac.

should apple add a true-depth camera to new macs, it would also add a
secure enclave, just as they did with the macbooks that have touch id.




> > What are guys hoping for?
> 
> Bring back Snow Leopard. Stop introducing bells and whistles for the
> sake of bells and whistles and focus on stability and running on Apple's
> own hardware without bugs (like window server freezing whole system on
> mac Pro 2013).

not gonna happen.

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#116569

On 22/05/2018 21:30, JF Mezei wrote:

> iPhones have special
> hardware (secure enclave) etc that totally separate processing and
> storing of ID data (whether face of fingerprint).

The MacBook Pro with Touch Bar already has the secure enclave, that's 
how it can support Touch ID.

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#116560

On 2018-05-22 16:34:26 +0000, Peter Kozlov said:
> 
> Wow, WWDC snuck up on me this year. I haven't been keeping up at all.
> 
> I'd like to see a completely virtual keyboard on glass similar to the iPad
> method of on-screen keyboard as an option to the regular keyboard. No one
> else likes he idea so not holding my breath.So gone are the mechanics of the
> physical keyboard. Just glass where the keyboard is now and you get a virtual
> keyboard that can morph as needed.

Glass / flat keybaodrs are crap to sue for any lenght of time, that's 
why so many companies sell external keyboards for tablets.



> Would also like to see Files updated to be closer to Finder on the Mac.
> 
> I'd also like the MacBook to get FaceID.
> 
> It's also time to see a new Pro machine that is modular.

That's due next year ... maybe.



> Lastly, a new iMac that removes all the boarders around the screen

Borderless displays are pointlessly silly waste of time for most people 
... "I gained an extra half an inch of display" ... whoop-de-doo!!   :-\
(Even sillier are the 'wrap around the edge' displays some fools keep 
trying to put on mobile phones! All you get is distortion where it 
curves around the edge.)

The only time a borderless display would be of any use is for the tiny 
minority who have multiple displays pushed up against each other to 
make a larger 'single' display (even then you'll still see a 'join').



> and consumes less space.

The only real way to make an iMac take up "less space" is to have a 
smaller display size, which isn't gonna happen.

Johny Ive could make the thing even thinner by dumping SSD for storage 
and simply using RAM chips soldered onto the motherboard ... or even 
having NO storage at all and forcing people to use external drives or 
the cloud. (It's not like Apple hasn't dumped internal storage options 
before - just look at the missing floppy drive on the G3 iMac, and the 
missing DVD-burners on later iMacs.)

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#116561

In article <pe20oh$dsv$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Your Name
<YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:

> > Lastly, a new iMac that removes all the boarders around the screen
> 
> Borderless displays are pointlessly silly waste of time for most people 
> ... "I gained an extra half an inch of display" ... whoop-de-doo!!   :-\
> (Even sillier are the 'wrap around the edge' displays some fools keep 
> trying to put on mobile phones! All you get is distortion where it 
> curves around the edge.)

nonsense.

> The only time a borderless display would be of any use is for the tiny 
> minority who have multiple displays pushed up against each other to 
> make a larger 'single' display (even then you'll still see a 'join').

nonsense.

> > and consumes less space.
> 
> The only real way to make an iMac take up "less space" is to have a 
> smaller display size, which isn't gonna happen.

or make it borderless, as well as thinner.

> Johny Ive could make the thing even thinner by dumping SSD for storage 
> and simply using RAM chips soldered onto the motherboard ... or even 
> having NO storage at all and forcing people to use external drives or 
> the cloud. (It's not like Apple hasn't dumped internal storage options 
> before 

they've never dumped internal storage on a mac.

> - just look at the missing floppy drive on the G3 iMac, and the 
> missing DVD-burners on later iMacs.)

nothing is missing. 

they stopped including those because they weren't needed anymore.

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#116576

On May 22, 2018, nospam wrote
(in article<220520181710207306%nospam@nospam.invalid>):

> In article<pe20oh$dsv$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Your Name
> <YourName@YourISP.com>  wrote:
>
> > > Lastly, a new iMac that removes all the boarders around the screen
> >
> > Borderless displays are pointlessly silly waste of time for most people
> > ... "I gained an extra half an inch of display" ... whoop-de-doo!! :-\
> > (Even sillier are the 'wrap around the edge' displays some fools keep
> > trying to put on mobile phones! All you get is distortion where it
> > curves around the edge.)
>
> nonsense.
>
> > The only time a borderless display would be of any use is for the tiny
> > minority who have multiple displays pushed up against each other to
> > make a larger 'single' display (even then you'll still see a 'join').
>
> nonsense.
>
> > > and consumes less space.
> >
> > The only real way to make an iMac take up "less space" is to have a
> > smaller display size, which isn't gonna happen.
>
> or make it borderless, as well as thinner.
>
> > Johny Ive could make the thing even thinner by dumping SSD for storage
> > and simply using RAM chips soldered onto the motherboard ... or even
> > having NO storage at all and forcing people to use external drives or
> > the cloud. (It's not like Apple hasn't dumped internal storage options
> > before
>
> they've never dumped internal storage on a mac.
>
> > - just look at the missing floppy drive on the G3 iMac, and the
> > missing DVD-burners on later iMacs.)
>
> nothing is missing.
>
> they stopped including those because they weren't needed anymore.

A very slight border on the iMac and the same 21.5” screen would be idea 
for me.

I’d like a screen based keyboard so it can change language easily and 
office other kinds of controls for software. No more moving parts.

-- 
Peter Kozlov

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#116589

On 2018-05-22 22:16, Peter Kozlov wrote:

> I’d like a screen based keyboard so it can change language easily and 
> office other kinds of controls for software. No more moving parts.

Ideally, mechannical keyboard as we know it, but keycaps are e-rader
(e-ink) displays where the character can be changed by software. (so if
you press shiuft, the keys change to upperchase, and you get to see the
special characters etc).

Not sure the engineering is ready for this, and this might cost an arm
and a leg.

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#116591

On 2018-05-23 07:24:22 +0000, JF Mezei said:
> On 2018-05-22 22:16, Peter Kozlov wrote:
>> 
>> I'd like a screen based keyboard so it can change language easily and
>> office other kinds of controls for software. No more moving parts.
> 
> Ideally, mechannical keyboard as we know it, but keycaps are e-rader
> (e-ink) displays where the character can be changed by software. (so if
> you press shiuft, the keys change to upperchase, and you get to see the
> special characters etc).
> 
> Not sure the engineering is ready for this, and this might cost an arm
> and a leg.

They already exist (although some are just concept / Kickstarter 
projects). Among others, there are ...

   - Sonder Keyboard
     https://sonderdesign.com

   - E-inkey Dynamic Keyboard
     https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/e-inkey-dynamic-keyboard#/

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#116593

On Wednesday, May 23, 2018 at 12:49:39 AM UTC-7, Your Name wrote:
> On 2018-05-23 07:24:22 +0000, JF Mezei said:
> > On 2018-05-22 22:16, Peter Kozlov wrote:
> >> 
> >> I'd like a screen based keyboard so it can change language easily and
> >> office other kinds of controls for software. No more moving parts.
> > 
> > Ideally, mechannical keyboard as we know it, but keycaps are e-rader
> > (e-ink) displays where the character can be changed by software. (so if
> > you press shiuft, the keys change to upperchase, and you get to see the
> > special characters etc).
> > 
> > Not sure the engineering is ready for this, and this might cost an arm
> > and a leg.
> 
> They already exist (although some are just concept / Kickstarter 
> projects). Among others, there are ...
> 
>    - Sonder Keyboard
>      https://sonderdesign.com
> 
>    - E-inkey Dynamic Keyboard
>      https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/e-inkey-dynamic-keyboard#/



Despicable Owl must recognize that Steve Carroll can go get whatever software he has found, right, tweaker? And, of course, anyone can can get software to block his crap, which renders *his* trolling useless, just like Despicable Owl. You can say I am Satan himself for all I care. His hope is to see me bothered by killing of any discussion. And hey, that could happen. You're eight seconds away from being in Steve Carroll's kill file. 

--
Top Six Ways Despicable Owl Trolls
https://youtu.be/dNhvVfD4zu4
https://youtu.be/Z5wo5aE7MUk
Jonas Eklundh Communication AB

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#116624

On Wednesday, May 23, 2018 at 2:53:16 AM UTC-7, Steve Carroll wrote:
> On Wednesday, May 23, 2018 at 12:49:39 AM UTC-7, Your Name wrote:
> > On 2018-05-23 07:24:22 +0000, JF Mezei said:
> > > On 2018-05-22 22:16, Peter Kozlov wrote:
> > >> 
> > >> I'd like a screen based keyboard so it can change language easily and
> > >> office other kinds of controls for software. No more moving parts.
> > > 
> > > Ideally, mechannical keyboard as we know it, but keycaps are e-rader
> > > (e-ink) displays where the character can be changed by software. (so if
> > > you press shiuft, the keys change to upperchase, and you get to see the
> > > special characters etc).
> > > 
> > > Not sure the engineering is ready for this, and this might cost an arm
> > > and a leg.
> > 
> > They already exist (although some are just concept / Kickstarter 
> > projects). Among others, there are ...
> > 
> >    - Sonder Keyboard
> >      https://sonderdesign.com
> > 
> >    - E-inkey Dynamic Keyboard
> >      https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/e-inkey-dynamic-keyboard#/
> 
> 
> 
> Despicable Owl must recognize that Steve Carroll can go get whatever software he has found, right, tweaker? And, of course, anyone can can get software to block his crap, which renders *his* trolling useless, just like Despicable Owl. You can say I am Satan himself for all I care. His hope is to see me bothered by killing of any discussion. And hey, that could happen. You're eight seconds away from being in Steve Carroll's kill file. 
> 
> --
> Top Six Ways Despicable Owl Trolls
> https://youtu.be/dNhvVfD4zu4
> https://youtu.be/Z5wo5aE7MUk
> Jonas Eklundh Communication AB



Perhaps you use it foolishly. Do you not comprehend the use of private networks? Ending support for DOS programs is needed for progress. Now that owl realized how effective Steve Carroll-Petruzzellis is at portraying himself as the 'injured party' he realizes this isn't nearly as outta whack as it appeared. 

That is the problem with millennials and uneducated instructors don't care at all, people from past generations SHOULD know better than to fall for the New World agenda. Steve Carroll-Petruzzellis has yet to show how his moral code does anything above the minimum on Linux. 

Well... like I said, owl would never deny the flooder is Steve Carroll-Petruzzellis, who is a demonstrable C developer but I don't know if it could be used to automate this. 

Now owl on the other end of the game doesn't matter. All that matters is Steve Carroll-Petruzzellis gets to deliver the punchline. So how to beat Steve Carroll-Petruzzellis at his own game? Don't respond to the nonsense. Logic isn't part of game and never was. What Steve Carroll-Petruzzellis really means: His legendary "debugging proficiency" blinded him to a module he insists does not exists that can be quickly Googled for Pulseaudio. 

--
"You'll notice how quickly he loses interest when everything is about him. He clearly wants the attention"
Steven Petruzzellis, making the dumbest comment ever uttered.

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#116613

In message <GG8NC.1897$Kp4.1381@fx43.iad> JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote:
> On 2018-05-22 22:16, Peter Kozlov wrote:

>> I’d like a screen based keyboard so it can change language easily and 
>> office other kinds of controls for software. No more moving parts.

> Ideally, mechannical keyboard as we know it, but keycaps are e-rader
> (e-ink) displays where the character can be changed by software. (so if
> you press shiuft, the keys change to upperchase, and you get to see the
> special characters etc).

Seems quite a waste when most people do not look at the keyboard when
they type.

-- 
"An ounce of practice is worth more than tons of preaching." - Mohandas
Gandhi

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#116637

On May 23, 2018, Lewis wrote
(in article <slrnpgbs4o.2dfd.g.kreme@Snow.local>):

> In message<GG8NC.1897$Kp4.1381@fx43.iad>  JF
> Mezei<jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>  wrote:
> > On 2018-05-22 22:16, Peter Kozlov wrote:
>
> > > I’d like a screen based keyboard so it can change language easily and
> > > office other kinds of controls for software. No more moving parts.
>
> > Ideally, mechannical keyboard as we know it, but keycaps are e-rader
> > (e-ink) displays where the character can be changed by software. (so if
> > you press shiuft, the keys change to upperchase, and you get to see the
> > special characters etc).
>
> Seems quite a waste when most people do not look at the keyboard when
> they type.

Well, let’s you are bilingual and would like to easily switch between two 
languages. This is effortless on the iPad and iPhone. On the Mac you have 
physical keys to deal with. How about from Apple’s point of view on 
localization. They have to create a lot of various Macs for different 
counties. It would be easier to have just one Mac. The customer chooses their 
language and the characters and layout required by that appear on the screen. 
You could have profiles where one use gets one localization and another user 
gets something else entirely.

How about a final cut pro user. The keyboard could be transformed into the 
controls for FCP. The same for music and other apps. I would to see this at 
least as an option. I’d go for it. You’re millage may vary.

-- 
Peter Kozlov

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#116640

On 2018-05-24 17:40:07 +0000, Peter Kozlov said:
> On May 23, 2018, Lewis wrote
> (in article <slrnpgbs4o.2dfd.g.kreme@Snow.local>):
>> In message<GG8NC.1897$Kp4.1381@fx43.iad>  JF
>> Mezei<jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>  wrote:
>>> On 2018-05-22 22:16, Peter Kozlov wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I'd like a screen based keyboard so it can change language easily and
>>>> office other kinds of controls for software. No more moving parts.
>>> 
>>> Ideally, mechannical keyboard as we know it, but keycaps are e-rader
>>> (e-ink) displays where the character can be changed by software. (so if
>>> you press shiuft, the keys change to upperchase, and you get to see the
>>> special characters etc).
>> 
>> Seems quite a waste when most people do not look at the keyboard when
>> they type.
> 
> Well, let's you are bilingual and would like to easily switch between two
> languages. This is effortless on the iPad and iPhone. On the Mac you have
> physical keys to deal with. How about from Apple's point of view on
> localization. They have to create a lot of various Macs for different
> counties. It would be easier to have just one Mac. The customer chooses their
> language and the characters and layout required by that appear on the screen.
> You could have profiles where one use gets one localization and another user
> gets something else entirely.
> 
> How about a final cut pro user. The keyboard could be transformed into the
> controls for FCP. The same for music and other apps. I would to see this at
> least as an option. I'd go for it. You're millage may vary.

As I posted before, such keyboards do actually exist (although 
expensive), but there are also keyboard overlays and key replacements 
that achieve the same purpose for a limited specific usages.

But once you've gotten used to the keyboard shortcuts, etc., you rarely 
actually look at the keyboard, so such options may be useful for the 
initial learning period, but quickly become rather pointless.

Then there's Apple's similar 'Touch Bar' gimmick that is barely used by 
app developers, largely because it's only available on a few laptops 
and will probably get dropped in a few years (if not sooner).

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#116641

On May 24, 2018, Your Name wrote
(in article <pe79sf$1b9j$1@gioia.aioe.org>):

> On 2018-05-24 17:40:07 +0000, Peter Kozlov said:
> > On May 23, 2018, Lewis wrote
> > (in article <slrnpgbs4o.2dfd.g.kreme@Snow.local>):
> > > In message<GG8NC.1897$Kp4.1381@fx43.iad>  JF
> > > Mezei<jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>  wrote:
> > > > On 2018-05-22 22:16, Peter Kozlov wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I'd like a screen based keyboard so it can change language easily and
> > > > > office other kinds of controls for software. No more moving parts.
> > > >
> > > > Ideally, mechannical keyboard as we know it, but keycaps are e-rader
> > > > (e-ink) displays where the character can be changed by software. (so if
> > > > you press shiuft, the keys change to upperchase, and you get to see the
> > > > special characters etc).
> > >
> > > Seems quite a waste when most people do not look at the keyboard when
> > > they type.
> >
> > Well, let's you are bilingual and would like to easily switch between two
> > languages. This is effortless on the iPad and iPhone. On the Mac you have
> > physical keys to deal with. How about from Apple's point of view on
> > localization. They have to create a lot of various Macs for different
> > counties. It would be easier to have just one Mac. The customer chooses
> > their
> > language and the characters and layout required by that appear on the
> > screen.
> > You could have profiles where one use gets one localization and another user
> > gets something else entirely.
> >
> > How about a final cut pro user. The keyboard could be transformed into the
> > controls for FCP. The same for music and other apps. I would to see this at
> > least as an option. I'd go for it. You're millage may vary.
>
> As I posted before, such keyboards do actually exist (although
> expensive), but there are also keyboard overlays and key replacements
> that achieve the same purpose for a limited specific usages.

Keyboard overlays aren’t a great idea in my opinion. Some alphabets are 
larger than English and don’t map well to the standard English keyboard.
> But once you've gotten used to the keyboard shortcuts, etc., you rarely
> actually look at the keyboard, so such options may be useful for the
> initial learning period, but quickly become rather pointless.

That’s a good point.
> Then there's Apple's similar 'Touch Bar' gimmick that is barely used by
> app developers, largely because it's only available on a few laptops
> and will probably get dropped in a few years (if not sooner).

I like the touch bar. But I’d like it expanded to be the whole keyboard. :)

-- 
Peter Kozlov

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#116650

On 2018-05-24 21:19:49 +0000, Peter Kozlov said:
> On May 24, 2018, Your Name wrote
> (in article <pe79sf$1b9j$1@gioia.aioe.org>):
>> On 2018-05-24 17:40:07 +0000, Peter Kozlov said:
>>> On May 23, 2018, Lewis wrote
>>> (in article <slrnpgbs4o.2dfd.g.kreme@Snow.local>):
>>>> In message<GG8NC.1897$Kp4.1381@fx43.iad>  JF
>>>> Mezei<jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>  wrote:
>>>>> On 2018-05-22 22:16, Peter Kozlov wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I'd like a screen based keyboard so it can change language easily and
>>>>>> office other kinds of controls for software. No more moving parts.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Ideally, mechannical keyboard as we know it, but keycaps are e-rader
>>>>> (e-ink) displays where the character can be changed by software. (so if
>>>>> you press shiuft, the keys change to upperchase, and you get to see the
>>>>> special characters etc).
>>>> 
>>>> Seems quite a waste when most people do not look at the keyboard when
>>>> they type.
>>> 
>>> Well, let's you are bilingual and would like to easily switch between two
>>> languages. This is effortless on the iPad and iPhone. On the Mac you have
>>> physical keys to deal with. How about from Apple's point of view on
>>> localization. They have to create a lot of various Macs for different
>>> counties. It would be easier to have just one Mac. The customer chooses
>>> their
>>> language and the characters and layout required by that appear on the
>>> screen.
>>> You could have profiles where one use gets one localization and another user
>>> gets something else entirely.
>>> 
>>> How about a final cut pro user. The keyboard could be transformed into the
>>> controls for FCP. The same for music and other apps. I would to see this at
>>> least as an option. I'd go for it. You're millage may vary.
>> 
>> As I posted before, such keyboards do actually exist (although
>> expensive), but there are also keyboard overlays and key replacements
>> that achieve the same purpose for a limited specific usages.
> 
> Keyboard overlays aren't a great idea in my opinion. Some alphabets are
> larger than English and don't map well to the standard English keyboard.

Our old second-hand G4 iBook had an English keyboard, but the original 
owner had put Asian stickers on all the keys which showed both the 
English alphabet and whatever Asian language symbols were.



>> But once you've gotten used to the keyboard shortcuts, etc., you rarely
>> actually look at the keyboard, so such options may be useful for the
>> initial learning period, but quickly become rather pointless.
> 
> That's a good point.
> 
>> Then there's Apple's similar 'Touch Bar' gimmick that is barely used by
>> app developers, largely because it's only available on a few laptops
>> and will probably get dropped in a few years (if not sooner).
> 
> I like the touch bar. But I'd like it expanded to be the whole keyboard. :)

Well, that makes one person on the whole planet.   ;-)

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#116652

On 2018-05-25 03:50:21 +0000, Your Name said:

> On 2018-05-24 21:19:49 +0000, Peter Kozlov said:
>> On May 24, 2018, Your Name wrote
>> (in article <pe79sf$1b9j$1@gioia.aioe.org>):
>>> On 2018-05-24 17:40:07 +0000, Peter Kozlov said:
>>>> On May 23, 2018, Lewis wrote
>>>> (in article <slrnpgbs4o.2dfd.g.kreme@Snow.local>):
>>>>> In message<GG8NC.1897$Kp4.1381@fx43.iad>  JF
>>>>> Mezei<jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>  wrote:
>>>>>> On 2018-05-22 22:16, Peter Kozlov wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I'd like a screen based keyboard so it can change language easily and
>>>>>>> office other kinds of controls for software. No more moving parts.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Ideally, mechannical keyboard as we know it, but keycaps are e-rader
>>>>>> (e-ink) displays where the character can be changed by software. (so if
>>>>>> you press shiuft, the keys change to upperchase, and you get to see the
>>>>>> special characters etc).
>>>>> 
>>>>> Seems quite a waste when most people do not look at the keyboard when
>>>>> they type.
>>>> 
>>>> Well, let's you are bilingual and would like to easily switch between two
>>>> languages. This is effortless on the iPad and iPhone. On the Mac you have
>>>> physical keys to deal with. How about from Apple's point of view on
>>>> localization. They have to create a lot of various Macs for different
>>>> counties. It would be easier to have just one Mac. The customer chooses
>>>> their
>>>> language and the characters and layout required by that appear on the
>>>> screen.
>>>> You could have profiles where one use gets one localization and another user
>>>> gets something else entirely.
>>>> 
>>>> How about a final cut pro user. The keyboard could be transformed into the
>>>> controls for FCP. The same for music and other apps. I would to see this at
>>>> least as an option. I'd go for it. You're millage may vary.
>>> 
>>> As I posted before, such keyboards do actually exist (although
>>> expensive), but there are also keyboard overlays and key replacements
>>> that achieve the same purpose for a limited specific usages.
>> 
>> Keyboard overlays aren't a great idea in my opinion. Some alphabets are
>> larger than English and don't map well to the standard English keyboard.
> 
> Our old second-hand G4 iBook had an English keyboard, but the original 
> owner had put Asian stickers on all the keys which showed both the 
> English alphabet and whatever Asian language symbols were.

I think that OLED keys would be the swellest. My acer laptop has a 
"Nordic" keyboard with Swedish keys in white, Danish in green and 
Norwegian in red. That would be made sooo obsolete! :-)) There are 
other keyboards that I would like to be able to actually see too...
> 
> 
> 
>>> But once you've gotten used to the keyboard shortcuts, etc., you rarely
>>> actually look at the keyboard, so such options may be useful for the
>>> initial learning period, but quickly become rather pointless.
>> 
>> That's a good point.
>> 
>>> Then there's Apple's similar 'Touch Bar' gimmick that is barely used by
>>> app developers, largely because it's only available on a few laptops
>>> and will probably get dropped in a few years (if not sooner).
>> 
>> I like the touch bar. But I'd like it expanded to be the whole keyboard. :)
> 
> Well, that makes one person on the whole planet.   ;-)

Two!
-- 
teleportation kills

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#116665

On May 24, 2018, Your Name wrote
(in article <pe815t$bk9$1@gioia.aioe.org>):

> On 2018-05-24 21:19:49 +0000, Peter Kozlov said:
> > On May 24, 2018, Your Name wrote
> > (in article <pe79sf$1b9j$1@gioia.aioe.org>):
> > > On 2018-05-24 17:40:07 +0000, Peter Kozlov said:
> > > > On May 23, 2018, Lewis wrote
> > > > (in article <slrnpgbs4o.2dfd.g.kreme@Snow.local>):
> > > > > In message<GG8NC.1897$Kp4.1381@fx43.iad>  JF
> > > > > Mezei<jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>  wrote:
> > > > > > On 2018-05-22 22:16, Peter Kozlov wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I'd like a screen based keyboard so it can change language easily and
> > > > > > > office other kinds of controls for software. No more moving parts.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ideally, mechannical keyboard as we know it, but keycaps are e-rader
> > > > > > (e-ink) displays where the character can be changed by software. (so if
> > > > > > you press shiuft, the keys change to upperchase, and you get to see the
> > > > > > special characters etc).
> > > > >
> > > > > Seems quite a waste when most people do not look at the keyboard when
> > > > > they type.
> > > >
> > > > Well, let's you are bilingual and would like to easily switch between two
> > > > languages. This is effortless on the iPad and iPhone. On the Mac you have
> > > > physical keys to deal with. How about from Apple's point of view on
> > > > localization. They have to create a lot of various Macs for different
> > > > counties. It would be easier to have just one Mac. The customer chooses
> > > > their
> > > > language and the characters and layout required by that appear on the
> > > > screen.
> > > > You could have profiles where one use gets one localization and another
> > > > user
> > > > gets something else entirely.
> > > >
> > > > How about a final cut pro user. The keyboard could be transformed into the
> > > > controls for FCP. The same for music and other apps. I would to see this
> > > > at
> > > > least as an option. I'd go for it. You're millage may vary.
> > >
> > > As I posted before, such keyboards do actually exist (although
> > > expensive), but there are also keyboard overlays and key replacements
> > > that achieve the same purpose for a limited specific usages.
> >
> > Keyboard overlays aren't a great idea in my opinion. Some alphabets are
> > larger than English and don't map well to the standard English keyboard.
>
> Our old second-hand G4 iBook had an English keyboard, but the original
> owner had put Asian stickers on all the keys which showed both the
> English alphabet and whatever Asian language symbols were.

English Alphabet

A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z

Russian Alphabet

А Б В Г Д Е Ё Ж З И Й К Л М Н О П Р С Т У Ф Х Ц Ч Ш 
Щ Ъ Ы Ь Э Ю Я

See what I mean? It doesn’t map well with overlays. It’s not really 
compatible with a western keyboard.

> > > But once you've gotten used to the keyboard shortcuts, etc., you rarely
> > > actually look at the keyboard, so such options may be useful for the
> > > initial learning period, but quickly become rather pointless.
> >
> > That's a good point.
> >
> > > Then there's Apple's similar 'Touch Bar' gimmick that is barely used by
> > > app developers, largely because it's only available on a few laptops
> > > and will probably get dropped in a few years (if not sooner).
> >
> > I like the touch bar. But I'd like it expanded to be the whole keyboard. :)
>
> Well, that makes one person on the whole planet. ;-)

That’s what Blackberry fans said about the full screen keyboard and 
everyone got used to it pretty quickly. I have an iPad and use the screen 
based keyboard a lot. It’s not perfect but it isn’t horrible either. 
It’s pretty good I’d say.

-- 
Peter Kozlov

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#116685

On 2018-05-25 14:39:59 +0000, Peter Kozlov said:
> On May 24, 2018, Your Name wrote
> (in article <pe815t$bk9$1@gioia.aioe.org>):
>> On 2018-05-24 21:19:49 +0000, Peter Kozlov said:
>>> On May 24, 2018, Your Name wrote
>>> (in article <pe79sf$1b9j$1@gioia.aioe.org>):
>>>> On 2018-05-24 17:40:07 +0000, Peter Kozlov said:
>>>>> On May 23, 2018, Lewis wrote
>>>>> (in article <slrnpgbs4o.2dfd.g.kreme@Snow.local>):
>>>>>> In message<GG8NC.1897$Kp4.1381@fx43.iad>  JF
>>>>>> Mezei<jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca>  wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2018-05-22 22:16, Peter Kozlov wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I'd like a screen based keyboard so it can change language easily and
>>>>>>>> office other kinds of controls for software. No more moving parts.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Ideally, mechannical keyboard as we know it, but keycaps are e-rader
>>>>>>> (e-ink) displays where the character can be changed by software. (so if
>>>>>>> you press shiuft, the keys change to upperchase, and you get to see the
>>>>>>> special characters etc).
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Seems quite a waste when most people do not look at the keyboard when
>>>>>> they type.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Well, let's you are bilingual and would like to easily switch between two
>>>>> languages. This is effortless on the iPad and iPhone. On the Mac you have
>>>>> physical keys to deal with. How about from Apple's point of view on
>>>>> localization. They have to create a lot of various Macs for different
>>>>> counties. It would be easier to have just one Mac. The customer chooses
>>>>> their language and the characters and layout required by that appear on the
>>>>> screen. You could have profiles where one use gets one localization and 
>>>>> another user gets something else entirely.
>>>>> 
>>>>> How about a final cut pro user. The keyboard could be transformed into the
>>>>> controls for FCP. The same for music and other apps. I would to see this
>>>>> at least as an option. I'd go for it. You're millage may vary.
>>>> 
>>>> As I posted before, such keyboards do actually exist (although
>>>> expensive), but there are also keyboard overlays and key replacements
>>>> that achieve the same purpose for a limited specific usages.
>>> 
>>> Keyboard overlays aren't a great idea in my opinion. Some alphabets are
>>> larger than English and don't map well to the standard English keyboard.
>> 
>> Our old second-hand G4 iBook had an English keyboard, but the original
>> owner had put Asian stickers on all the keys which showed both the
>> English alphabet and whatever Asian language symbols were.
> 
> English Alphabet
> 
> A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z
> 
> Russian Alphabet
> 
> А Б В Г Д Е Ё Ж З И Й К Л М Н О П Р С Т У Ф Х Ц Ч Ш
> Щ Ъ Ы Ь Э Ю Я
> 
> See what I mean? It doesn’t map well with overlays. It’s not really
> compatible with a western keyboard.

The Asian languages have far more characters. You can't even get 
Asian-specific keyboards that have them all.



>>>> But once you've gotten used to the keyboard shortcuts, etc., you rarely
>>>> actually look at the keyboard, so such options may be useful for the
>>>> initial learning period, but quickly become rather pointless.
>>> 
>>> That's a good point.

It's the same with the existing extra characters you can get from the 
normal keyboard. If you use the cents symbol a lot, for example, you 
would quickly learn that pressing Option 4 (depending on your keyboard 
country) gives you that symbol without needing to specifically look for 
it. Even if you don't use it a lot, it's a fairly obvious key since it 
also has the $ symbol on it. It's similar with many of the other extra 
characters being on obvious keys in the Mac's OS since the early days.



>>>> Then there's Apple's similar 'Touch Bar' gimmick that is barely used by
>>>> app developers, largely because it's only available on a few laptops
>>>> and will probably get dropped in a few years (if not sooner).
>>> 
>>> I like the touch bar. But I'd like it expanded to be the whole keyboard. :)
>> 
>> Well, that makes one person on the whole planet. ;-)
> 
> That’s what Blackberry fans said about the full screen keyboard and
> everyone got used to it pretty quickly. I have an iPad and use the screen
> based keyboard a lot. It’s not perfect but it isn’t horrible either.
> It’s pretty good I’d say.

Firing off a quick email is fine, but trying to do a lot ot typing work 
on a flat keyboard (on-screen or projected) is incredibly awful, even 
with supposed haptic feedback. That's why so many companies make 
external keyboards for tablets, although some of those are rubber-based 
which are almost as horrible as flat keyboards.

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