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Groups > comp.sys.mac.system > #119404 > unrolled thread
| Started by | rs99tl@gmail.com |
|---|---|
| First post | 2018-11-09 17:32 -0800 |
| Last post | 2018-11-11 13:04 -0500 |
| Articles | 20 on this page of 83 — 14 participants |
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Re: APFS on HDD rs99tl@gmail.com - 2018-11-09 17:32 -0800
Re: APFS on HDD Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2018-11-10 14:42 +1300
Re: APFS on HDD RSORLANDO <rs99tl@gmail.com> - 2018-11-09 18:15 -0800
Re: APFS on HDD Elden <usenet@moondog.org> - 2018-11-09 21:27 -0800
Re: APFS on HDD dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2018-11-10 18:52 +1300
Re: APFS on HDD J Burns <burns@nospam.com> - 2018-11-10 09:11 -0500
Re: APFS on HDD Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2018-11-11 10:08 +1300
Re: APFS on HDD J Burns <burns@nospam.com> - 2018-11-10 17:41 -0500
Re: APFS on HDD nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2018-11-10 19:18 -0500
Re: APFS on HDD Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2018-11-11 18:03 +1300
Re: APFS on HDD J Burns <burns@nospam.com> - 2018-11-11 13:21 -0500
Re: APFS on HDD Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2018-11-12 03:09 +0000
Re: APFS on HDD J Burns <burns@nospam.com> - 2018-11-12 02:10 -0500
Re: APFS on HDD Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2018-11-12 12:32 +0000
Re: APFS on HDD Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2018-11-13 08:14 +1300
Re: APFS on HDD J Burns <burns@nospam.com> - 2018-11-12 20:29 -0500
Re: APFS on HDD Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2018-11-13 18:15 +1300
Re: APFS on HDD J Burns <burns@nospam.com> - 2018-11-13 09:20 -0500
Re: APFS on HDD JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2018-11-12 02:30 -0500
Re: APFS on HDD Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2018-11-12 12:45 +0000
Re: APFS on HDD JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2018-11-12 18:31 -0500
Re: APFS on HDD Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2018-11-13 00:04 +0000
Re: APFS on HDD Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2018-11-13 13:46 +1300
Re: APFS on HDD dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2018-11-11 15:55 +1300
Re: APFS on HDD J Burns <burns@nospam.com> - 2018-11-10 23:38 -0500
Re: APFS on HDD Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2018-11-11 07:18 +0000
Re: APFS on HDD J Burns <burns@nospam.com> - 2018-11-11 12:39 -0500
Re: APFS on HDD Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2018-11-12 09:10 +1300
Re: APFS on HDD J Burns <burns@nospam.com> - 2018-11-11 19:26 -0500
Re: APFS on HDD Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2018-11-12 16:20 +1300
Re: APFS on HDD J Burns <burns@nospam.com> - 2018-11-12 01:46 -0500
Re: APFS on HDD dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2018-11-14 02:05 +1300
Re: APFS on HDD Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2018-11-11 07:13 +0000
Re: APFS on HDD JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2018-11-12 02:10 -0500
Re: APFS on HDD JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2018-11-12 02:02 -0500
Re: APFS on HDD dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2018-11-12 21:57 +1300
Re: APFS on HDD JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2018-11-12 18:26 -0500
Re: APFS on HDD Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2018-11-13 01:12 +0000
Re: APFS on HDD JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2018-11-12 23:44 -0500
Re: APFS on HDD Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2018-11-13 18:17 +0000
Re: APFS on HDD dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2018-11-13 19:38 +1300
Re: APFS on HDD Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2018-11-13 10:21 +0000
Re: APFS on HDD JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2018-11-13 05:55 -0500
Re: APFS on HDD dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2018-11-14 01:28 +1300
Re: APFS on HDD Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2018-11-13 13:40 +0000
Re: APFS on HDD Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2018-11-13 18:18 +0000
Re: APFS on HDD JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2018-11-13 05:57 -0500
Re: APFS on HDD dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2018-11-14 01:28 +1300
Re: APFS on HDD JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2018-11-13 13:27 -0500
Re: APFS on HDD dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2018-11-14 13:31 +1300
Re: APFS on HDD JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2018-11-14 15:33 -0500
Re: APFS on HDD dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2018-11-15 12:04 +1300
Re: APFS on HDD JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2018-11-15 00:35 -0500
Re: APFS on HDD dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2018-11-15 22:24 +1300
Re: APFS on HDD JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2018-11-15 12:39 -0500
Re: APFS on HDD Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2018-11-16 13:45 -0500
Re: APFS on HDD JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2018-11-16 20:13 -0500
Re: APFS on HDD dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2018-11-18 18:37 +1300
Re: APFS on HDD JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2018-11-18 17:40 -0500
Re: APFS on HDD dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2018-11-19 13:42 +1300
Re: APFS on HDD Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2018-11-19 02:08 +0000
Re: APFS on HDD dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2018-11-19 15:52 +1300
Re: APFS on HDD JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2018-11-18 22:31 -0500
Re: APFS on HDD dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2018-11-20 13:23 +1300
Re: APFS on HDD JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2018-11-19 23:32 -0500
Re: APFS on HDD dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2018-11-20 22:05 +1300
Re: APFS on HDD "David B." <"David B"@nomail.afraid.org> - 2018-11-20 09:36 +0000
Re: APFS on HDD André G. Isaak <agisaak@gm.invalid> - 2018-11-20 06:12 -0700
Re: APFS on HDD "David B." <"David B"@nomail.afraid.org> - 2018-11-20 14:28 +0000
Re: APFS on HDD nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2018-11-20 09:36 -0500
Re: APFS on HDD nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2018-11-20 08:57 -0500
Re: APFS on HDD "David B." <"David B"@nomail.afraid.org> - 2018-11-20 14:34 +0000
Re: APFS on HDD nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2018-11-20 09:36 -0500
Re: APFS on HDD Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2018-11-19 05:46 +0000
Re: APFS on HDD JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2018-11-19 02:27 -0500
Re: APFS on HDD Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2018-11-19 11:42 -0500
Re: APFS on HDD dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2018-11-20 13:23 +1300
Re: APFS on HDD JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2018-11-19 21:57 -0500
Re: APFS on HDD dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) - 2018-11-20 16:28 +1300
Re: APFS on HDD JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2018-11-21 13:24 -0500
Re: APFS on HDD Stephen Hoffman <seaohveh@hoffmanlabs.invalid> - 2018-11-19 11:34 -0500
Re: APFS on HDD Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2018-11-13 13:41 +0000
Re: APFS on HDD Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> - 2018-11-11 13:04 -0500
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| From | JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-11-12 18:31 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <53oGD.188889$6y.116254@fx09.iad> |
| In reply to | #119493 |
On 2018-11-12 07:45, Lewis wrote: > You are delusional. When Apple bought Next Jobs was not part of the > deal. He was busy with Pixar, You are naive. Apple buying Next was part of Apple getting jobs to agree to come back. And he only did part time until he was sure that he would be given free reigns at Apple to innovate and not be stabbed in the back. He wasn't gonna leave Pixar to go to Apple onoto to be fired again or have to leave becayse he couldn't innopvate the way he wanted to. He made a very smart and calculated move. What isn't clear is upon the puprchase of Next, what Apple was willing to offer to Jobs. What is clear is that Jobs wouldn't settle for less than CEO with garantees he would be given power to manage Apple how he wanted.
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| From | Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-11-13 00:04 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrnpuk588.2gjt.g.kreme@Snow.local> |
| In reply to | #119507 |
In message <53oGD.188889$6y.116254@fx09.iad> JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote: > On 2018-11-12 07:45, Lewis wrote: >> You are delusional. When Apple bought Next Jobs was not part of the >> deal. He was busy with Pixar, > You are naive. Apple buying Next was part of Apple getting jobs to agree > to come back. You saying false things doesn't make them less false. You are WRONG. Entirely. 100%. Wrong. -- "Love is the triumph of imagination over intelligence." - H. L. Mencken
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| From | Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-11-13 13:46 +1300 |
| Message-ID | <psd6ta$u8r$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #119507 |
On 2018-11-12 23:31:12 +0000, JF Mezei said: > On 2018-11-12 07:45, Lewis wrote: >> >> You are delusional. When Apple bought Next Jobs was not part of the >> deal. He was busy with Pixar, > > You are naive. Apple buying Next was part of Apple getting jobs to agree > to come back. Other way around from what I've read. Steve Jobs would only sell NExT to Apple if he was allowed to be on the Apple Board. > And he only did part time until he was sure that he would be given free > reigns at Apple to innovate and not be stabbed in the back. He wasn't > gonna leave Pixar to go to Apple onoto to be fired again or have to > leave becayse he couldn't innopvate the way he wanted to. Steve Jobs had little to do with Pixar's day-to-day running. He was mostly the money-man who gave orders (which the people running Pixar largely ignored). > He made a very smart and calculated move. What isn't clear is upon the > puprchase of Next, what Apple was willing to offer to Jobs. What is > clear is that Jobs wouldn't settle for less than CEO with garantees he > would be given power to manage Apple how he wanted. Jobs didn't want to be CEO again. He only took the role because nobody else wanted it, and even then it was only meant to be temporary until they found someone else.
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| From | dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-11-11 15:55 +1300 |
| Message-ID | <1ny3yhd.fqz5ptvt2g9bN%dempson@actrix.gen.nz> |
| In reply to | #119426 |
J Burns <burns@nospam.com> wrote: > On 11/10/18 12:52 AM, David Empson wrote: > > Elden <usenet@moondog.org> wrote: > > > >> On Nov 9, 2018, Your Name wrote: > >>> > >>> During some of the beta testing of High Sierra, APFS was available for > >>> hard drives and Fusion drives, but that support was dropped from the > >>> official release due to some issues, so only SSDs were converted. > >>> > >>> Apple has managed to fix those issues, and as of Mojave, Apple has made > >>> APFS the standard disk format for all drive types, including hard > >>> drives and Fusion drives. > >> > >> I haven't heard. Can you use an APFS drive for a time machine backup > >> target? I believe originally one could not. > > > > No, Time Machine drives are still HFS+. > > > > They might be ready to start using APFS on Time Machine backup drives in > > macOS 10.15, but probably only for a new or erased backup drive as it > > would be too difficult to convert the tangled web of hard links on an > > existing backup drive into a snapshot/clone-based model for APFS. > > > I'm thinking of getting a 2018 mini and keeping my 2012 mini as a > backup. I want to use CCC to keep to keep the files on the backup up to > date. Should I reformat the 2012 as APFS? (The 2012 has a spinning disk, > but I may install an SSD.) I'll be getting my own 2018 Mac Mini in a few days (already shipped from China), and I have 2012 and 2014 Mac Minis, so I can test some of these details for you. At a minimum I would recommend upgrading your 2012 Mac Mini to Mojave before attempting to boot from a cloned system, because installing Mojave will install a firmware update which may be required to boot Mojave on that model. Installing Mojave would also convert your startup drive to APFS in the process, whether or not you replace the hard drive with an SSD. There is no need to erase your existing hard drive as a separate step. My 2014 Mini is already running Mojave (developer betas) but my 2012 Mini is still running Sierra (I'm intending to upgrade it to High Sierra at a convenient point, but not to Mojave any time soon) so it will have older firmware. I'm not willing to go as far as cloning to their internal drive, but can test booting a clone from the 2018 Mini on an external drive on both Macs. I expect it will work fine on the 2014 model but might not on the 2012 model due to the firmware version. -- David Empson dempson@actrix.gen.nz
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| From | J Burns <burns@nospam.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-11-10 23:38 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <ps8boj$qnj$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #119449 |
On 11/10/18 9:55 PM, David Empson wrote: > J Burns <burns@nospam.com> wrote: > >> On 11/10/18 12:52 AM, David Empson wrote: >>> Elden <usenet@moondog.org> wrote: >>> >>>> On Nov 9, 2018, Your Name wrote: >>>>> >>>>> During some of the beta testing of High Sierra, APFS was available for >>>>> hard drives and Fusion drives, but that support was dropped from the >>>>> official release due to some issues, so only SSDs were converted. >>>>> >>>>> Apple has managed to fix those issues, and as of Mojave, Apple has made >>>>> APFS the standard disk format for all drive types, including hard >>>>> drives and Fusion drives. >>>> >>>> I haven't heard. Can you use an APFS drive for a time machine backup >>>> target? I believe originally one could not. >>> >>> No, Time Machine drives are still HFS+. >>> >>> They might be ready to start using APFS on Time Machine backup drives in >>> macOS 10.15, but probably only for a new or erased backup drive as it >>> would be too difficult to convert the tangled web of hard links on an >>> existing backup drive into a snapshot/clone-based model for APFS. >>> >> I'm thinking of getting a 2018 mini and keeping my 2012 mini as a >> backup. I want to use CCC to keep to keep the files on the backup up to >> date. Should I reformat the 2012 as APFS? (The 2012 has a spinning disk, >> but I may install an SSD.) > > I'll be getting my own 2018 Mac Mini in a few days (already shipped from > China), and I have 2012 and 2014 Mac Minis, so I can test some of these > details for you. > > At a minimum I would recommend upgrading your 2012 Mac Mini to Mojave > before attempting to boot from a cloned system, because installing > Mojave will install a firmware update which may be required to boot > Mojave on that model. > > Installing Mojave would also convert your startup drive to APFS in the > process, whether or not you replace the hard drive with an SSD. There is > no need to erase your existing hard drive as a separate step. > > My 2014 Mini is already running Mojave (developer betas) but my 2012 > Mini is still running Sierra (I'm intending to upgrade it to High Sierra > at a convenient point, but not to Mojave any time soon) so it will have > older firmware. > > I'm not willing to go as far as cloning to their internal drive, but can > test booting a clone from the 2018 Mini on an external drive on both > Macs. I expect it will work fine on the 2014 model but might not on the > 2012 model due to the firmware version. > Thanks. I don't have a 2018 already because I'd want to get it on Amazon's 5% discount credit card. To get the card I'd need to think of a password. That prospect intimidates me. A password is such a big commitment! ;) If booting from clones won't work, I know there are other ways to sync. I'm just not experienced. In the 1980s, my BIL was very proud of his expensive 200 MB SCSI disk. He'd use it to sync his Mac at home with his Mac at work, 40 miles away. I can't think of the name of the syncing software he used. Wow, the spell checker accepted "syncing!"
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| From | Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-11-11 07:18 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrnpuflt9.1ia3.g.kreme@Snow.local> |
| In reply to | #119449 |
In message <1ny3yhd.fqz5ptvt2g9bN%dempson@actrix.gen.nz> David Empson <dempson@actrix.gen.nz> wrote: > J Burns <burns@nospam.com> wrote: >> On 11/10/18 12:52 AM, David Empson wrote: >> > Elden <usenet@moondog.org> wrote: >> > >> >> On Nov 9, 2018, Your Name wrote: >> >>> >> >>> During some of the beta testing of High Sierra, APFS was available for >> >>> hard drives and Fusion drives, but that support was dropped from the >> >>> official release due to some issues, so only SSDs were converted. >> >>> >> >>> Apple has managed to fix those issues, and as of Mojave, Apple has made >> >>> APFS the standard disk format for all drive types, including hard >> >>> drives and Fusion drives. >> >> >> >> I haven't heard. Can you use an APFS drive for a time machine backup >> >> target? I believe originally one could not. >> > >> > No, Time Machine drives are still HFS+. >> > >> > They might be ready to start using APFS on Time Machine backup drives in >> > macOS 10.15, but probably only for a new or erased backup drive as it >> > would be too difficult to convert the tangled web of hard links on an >> > existing backup drive into a snapshot/clone-based model for APFS. >> > >> I'm thinking of getting a 2018 mini and keeping my 2012 mini as a >> backup. I want to use CCC to keep to keep the files on the backup up to >> date. Should I reformat the 2012 as APFS? (The 2012 has a spinning disk, >> but I may install an SSD.) > I'll be getting my own 2018 Mac Mini in a few days (already shipped from > China), and I have 2012 and 2014 Mac Minis, so I can test some of these > details for you. I have a 2018 mini in my shopping bag right now, haven't quite pulled the trigger on it though. > At a minimum I would recommend upgrading your 2012 Mac Mini to Mojave > before attempting to boot from a cloned system, because installing > Mojave will install a firmware update which may be required to boot > Mojave on that model. > Installing Mojave would also convert your startup drive to APFS in the > process, whether or not you replace the hard drive with an SSD. There is > no need to erase your existing hard drive as a separate step. Installing an SSD in a mini is fiddly, and many people have broken minor things like the internal speaker connection or IR sensor when doing it, but it is worth it. The difference in speed of a system with an SSD over a hard drive is massive in every way. (I upgraded mine to dual SSDs and I don't think I broke anything, though honestly I'd have no idea if the IR sensor worked or not) -- Q: What's the difference between a civil engineer and a military engineer? A: A military engineer designs weapons, and a civil engineer designs targets.
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| From | J Burns <burns@nospam.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-11-11 12:39 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <ps9pfo$ge6$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #119454 |
On 11/11/18 2:18 AM, Lewis wrote: > Installing an SSD in a mini is fiddly, and many people have broken > minor things like the internal speaker connection or IR sensor when > doing it, but it is worth it. The difference in speed of a system with an > SSD over a hard drive is massive in every way. Booting with my USB 3.0 SSD gave me a prodigious seven-fold increase in the Xbench disk score. (The word "massive" is a big reason I quit watching TV.) > > (I upgraded mine to dual SSDs and I don't think I broke anything, though > honestly I'd have no idea if the IR sensor worked or not) I cracked the shroud when I cleaned the fan. I took that as a divine warning. When you're up the creek with one paddle, don't tamper with it.
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| From | Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-11-12 09:10 +1300 |
| Message-ID | <psa2bl$1gs4$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #119464 |
On 2018-11-11 17:39:03 +0000, J Burns said: > On 11/11/18 2:18 AM, Lewis wrote: >> Installing an SSD in a mini is fiddly, and many people have broken >> minor things like the internal speaker connection or IR sensor when >> doing it, but it is worth it. The difference in speed of a system with an >> SSD over a hard drive is massive in every way. > > Booting with my USB 3.0 SSD gave me a prodigious seven-fold increase in > the Xbench disk score. (The word "massive" is a big reason I quit > watching TV.) > >> (I upgraded mine to dual SSDs and I don't think I broke anything, though >> honestly I'd have no idea if the IR sensor worked or not) > > I cracked the shroud when I cleaned the fan. I took that as a divine > warning. When you're up the creek with one paddle, don't tamper with it. With the new 2018 Mac Mini, Apple has soldered the drive onto the motherboard, so it's not upgradable at all. You can upgrade the RAM, but it's not as easy as it could / should be - you have to disassemble the whole computer. :-(
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| From | J Burns <burns@nospam.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-11-11 19:26 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <psahar$alv$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #119471 |
On 11/11/18 3:10 PM, Your Name wrote: > On 2018-11-11 17:39:03 +0000, J Burns said: >> On 11/11/18 2:18 AM, Lewis wrote: >>> Installing an SSD in a mini is fiddly, and many people have broken >>> minor things like the internal speaker connection or IR sensor when >>> doing it, but it is worth it. The difference in speed of a system >>> with an >>> SSD over a hard drive is massive in every way. >> >> Booting with my USB 3.0 SSD gave me a prodigious seven-fold increase >> in the Xbench disk score. (The word "massive" is a big reason I quit >> watching TV.) >> >>> (I upgraded mine to dual SSDs and I don't think I broke anything, though >>> honestly I'd have no idea if the IR sensor worked or not) >> >> I cracked the shroud when I cleaned the fan. I took that as a divine >> warning. When you're up the creek with one paddle, don't tamper with it. > > With the new 2018 Mac Mini, Apple has soldered the drive onto the > motherboard, so it's not upgradable at all. You can upgrade the RAM, but > it's not as easy as it could / should be - you have to disassemble the > whole computer. :-( > Torx T6 security screws! I wonder how common it is to have a security screw that small. About 1991, my BIL had a frightfully expensive Mac that took a lot of table space. It kept crashing. After months, he discovered a hairline crack in a memory socket. A new socket was pretty cheap, and I had years of experience soldering stuff like that, but, with a computer that cost as much as some new cars, he paid to ship it a thousand miles to an authorized facility. You can do serious damage changing memory. Maybe that's a reason Apple uses diabolical screws.
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| From | Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-11-12 16:20 +1300 |
| Message-ID | <psaril$nrl$1@gioia.aioe.org> |
| In reply to | #119476 |
On 2018-11-12 00:26:02 +0000, J Burns said: > On 11/11/18 3:10 PM, Your Name wrote: >> On 2018-11-11 17:39:03 +0000, J Burns said: >>> On 11/11/18 2:18 AM, Lewis wrote: >>>> Installing an SSD in a mini is fiddly, and many people have broken >>>> minor things like the internal speaker connection or IR sensor when >>>> doing it, but it is worth it. The difference in speed of a system with an >>>> SSD over a hard drive is massive in every way. >>> >>> Booting with my USB 3.0 SSD gave me a prodigious seven-fold increase in >>> the Xbench disk score. (The word "massive" is a big reason I quit >>> watching TV.) >>> >>>> (I upgraded mine to dual SSDs and I don't think I broke anything, though >>>> honestly I'd have no idea if the IR sensor worked or not) >>> >>> I cracked the shroud when I cleaned the fan. I took that as a divine >>> warning. When you're up the creek with one paddle, don't tamper with it. >> >> With the new 2018 Mac Mini, Apple has soldered the drive onto the >> motherboard, so it's not upgradable at all. You can upgrade the RAM, >> but it's not as easy as it could / should be - you have to disassemble >> the whole computer. :-( > > Torx T6 security screws! I wonder how common it is to have a security > screw that small. The average "home handyman" is unlikely won't have one, but they aren't hard to get hold of. I personally do have a set (at least one) of screwdrivers that includes the T6 and the smaller T5 and T4, among a pile of various other shapes. > About 1991, my BIL had a frightfully expensive Mac that took a lot of > table space. It kept crashing. After months, he discovered a hairline > crack in a memory socket. A new socket was pretty cheap, and I had > years of experience soldering stuff like that, but, with a computer > that cost as much as some new cars, he paid to ship it a thousand miles > to an authorized facility. > > You can do serious damage changing memory. Maybe that's a reason Apple > uses diabolical screws. The 27" iMac (non-Pro) still has a user-accessible hatch on the back to be able to easily add / change RAM cards. I think it's the only Apple product that is still easy to make any user-upgrades to ... no doubt Johnny Ives will be removing that in the next case design update. I been opening up electronics boxes for years to do all sorts of things, including opening up "Classic" Macs and our old MacBook, and I would happy enough to open my own 2014 Mac Mini if it needs to be, but not being Apple Authorised I'm extremely wary of doing anything like that with clients' newer Mac computers, even if it already seems to be 100% dead.
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| From | J Burns <burns@nospam.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-11-12 01:46 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <psb7kt$5br$1@dont-email.me> |
| In reply to | #119480 |
On 11/11/18 10:20 PM, Your Name wrote: >> Torx T6 security screws! I wonder how common it is to have a security >> screw that small. > > The average "home handyman" is unlikely won't have one, but they aren't > hard to get hold of. I personally do have a set (at least one) of > screwdrivers that includes the T6 and the smaller T5 and T4, among a > pile of various other shapes. > I've got T2-T10, plus T15 and T20. The box says T8 and up have security holes, but now I see T6 and T7 have them, too. I guess their microscope wasn't as good as mine.
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| From | dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-11-14 02:05 +1300 |
| Message-ID | <1ny82cj.rdudyayecialN%dempson@actrix.gen.nz> |
| In reply to | #119449 |
David Empson <dempson@actrix.gen.nz> wrote: > J Burns <burns@nospam.com> wrote: > > > On 11/10/18 12:52 AM, David Empson wrote: > > > Elden <usenet@moondog.org> wrote: > > > > > >> On Nov 9, 2018, Your Name wrote: > > >>> > > >>> During some of the beta testing of High Sierra, APFS was available for > > >>> hard drives and Fusion drives, but that support was dropped from the > > >>> official release due to some issues, so only SSDs were converted. > > >>> > > >>> Apple has managed to fix those issues, and as of Mojave, Apple has made > > >>> APFS the standard disk format for all drive types, including hard > > >>> drives and Fusion drives. > > >> > > >> I haven't heard. Can you use an APFS drive for a time machine backup > > >> target? I believe originally one could not. > > > > > > No, Time Machine drives are still HFS+. > > > > > > They might be ready to start using APFS on Time Machine backup drives in > > > macOS 10.15, but probably only for a new or erased backup drive as it > > > would be too difficult to convert the tangled web of hard links on an > > > existing backup drive into a snapshot/clone-based model for APFS. > > > > > I'm thinking of getting a 2018 mini and keeping my 2012 mini as a > > backup. I want to use CCC to keep to keep the files on the backup up to > > date. Should I reformat the 2012 as APFS? (The 2012 has a spinning disk, > > but I may install an SSD.) > > I'll be getting my own 2018 Mac Mini in a few days (already shipped from > China), and I have 2012 and 2014 Mac Minis, so I can test some of these > details for you. > > At a minimum I would recommend upgrading your 2012 Mac Mini to Mojave > before attempting to boot from a cloned system, because installing > Mojave will install a firmware update which may be required to boot > Mojave on that model. > > Installing Mojave would also convert your startup drive to APFS in the > process, whether or not you replace the hard drive with an SSD. There is > no need to erase your existing hard drive as a separate step. > > My 2014 Mini is already running Mojave (developer betas) but my 2012 > Mini is still running Sierra (I'm intending to upgrade it to High Sierra > at a convenient point, but not to Mojave any time soon) so it will have > older firmware. > > I'm not willing to go as far as cloning to their internal drive, but can > test booting a clone from the 2018 Mini on an external drive on both > Macs. I expect it will work fine on the 2014 model but might not on the > 2012 model due to the firmware version. Now testing various aspects of my 2018 Mac Mini. I'll start a new thread when I've finished my initial findings. One of the above tests done, confirming the 2018 Mini's custom release OS boots on older models already set up to run Mojave. 1. Used the Recovery volume on the 2018 Mini to downgrade startup security to medium (any OS signed by Apple) and enabled external boot (only required for step 3). 2. Cloned the 2018 Mini's to an external SSD using SuperDuper 3.2.4. 3. Made sure it booted the 2018 Mini (required a bit of prodding: I think choosing it in Startup Disk was a necessary step as it worked after that). 4. Booted my 2014 Mini from the external SSD. This worked fine, but note that my 2014 Mini has already had Mojave installed therefore will have up to date firmware. On that basis I expect cloning my 2018 Mini to the internal drive of my 2014 Mini would also work. To do: try booting the external SSD on my 2012 Mini. I expect this will not work because that Mac Mini is still running Sierra and has never had High Sierra installed (therefore no APFS support in firmware), let alone Mojave. When I have time I'll update it to High Sierra and repeat the test. The 2012 Mini was busy earlier and I've run out of time today. -- David Empson dempson@actrix.gen.nz
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| From | Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-11-11 07:13 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <slrnpuflkv.1ia3.g.kreme@Snow.local> |
| In reply to | #119420 |
In message <1ny2c51.bdcrtc1ehzkc6N%dempson@actrix.gen.nz> David Empson <dempson@actrix.gen.nz> wrote: > Elden <usenet@moondog.org> wrote: >> On Nov 9, 2018, Your Name wrote: >> > >> > During some of the beta testing of High Sierra, APFS was available for >> > hard drives and Fusion drives, but that support was dropped from the >> > official release due to some issues, so only SSDs were converted. >> > >> > Apple has managed to fix those issues, and as of Mojave, Apple has made >> > APFS the standard disk format for all drive types, including hard >> > drives and Fusion drives. >> >> I haven't heard. Can you use an APFS drive for a time machine backup >> target? I believe originally one could not. > No, Time Machine drives are still HFS+. > They might be ready to start using APFS on Time Machine backup drives in > macOS 10.15, but probably only for a new or erased backup drive as it > would be too difficult to convert the tangled web of hard links on an > existing backup drive into a snapshot/clone-based model for APFS. I suspect that the move to APFS for Time Machine will be tagged as "Time Machine 2" or something like that, as I expect it will be quite unlike the current version. For one, I would expect that it would be continuously backing up snapshots and versions instead of the current hourly method, and that when finding a file to restore you will be able to see all the various versions instead of the current "see all files at this timestamp". If Time Machine wasn't such a good name, I might even expect them to rename it entirely. -- Oh! I thought they smelled bad on the *outside*!
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| From | JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-11-12 02:10 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <KH9GD.681916$lM2.491585@fx39.iad> |
| In reply to | #119453 |
On 2018-11-11 02:13, Lewis wrote: > I suspect that the move to APFS for Time Machine will be tagged as "Time > Machine 2" or something like that, as I expect it will be quite unlike > the current version. But there would also be pressure to maintain the same software interface on the restore side (the "Enter Time Machine" UI and functionality). Not easy to support both HFS and APFS as source drives, and APFS and HSF+s as target drives. Making use of new features of APFS requires new semantics for performing and storing backups.
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| From | JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-11-12 02:02 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <1A9GD.592932$Ac3.232012@fx45.iad> |
| In reply to | #119420 |
On 2018-11-10 00:52, David Empson wrote: > No, Time Machine drives are still HFS+. I take it that Time Machine will eventually use the new mechanisms of APFS instead of hard links, and it would basically need to be a totally different software engine under the hood? I am somewhat surprised Apple hasn't deployed this yet since APFS has some far more powerful capabilities for backups, including ability to take a snapshot of your source drive and then back it up. (and then destroy the snapshot).
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| From | dempson@actrix.gen.nz (David Empson) |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-11-12 21:57 +1300 |
| Message-ID | <1ny66kp.15qh9317286u7N%dempson@actrix.gen.nz> |
| In reply to | #119484 |
JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote: > On 2018-11-10 00:52, David Empson wrote: > > > No, Time Machine drives are still HFS+. > > I take it that Time Machine will eventually use the new mechanisms of > APFS instead of hard links, and it would basically need to be a totally > different software engine under the hood? APFS already has all the file system features needed to implement the current feature set of Time Machine backups (and several improvements), but the software needs to be developed and tested. I'm looking forward to seeing what shows up at WWDC 2019. > I am somewhat surprised Apple hasn't deployed this yet since APFS has > some far more powerful capabilities for backups, including ability to > take a snapshot of your source drive and then back it up. (and then > destroy the snapshot). That is exactly how TM already does backups from a source APFS volume (on High Sierra and later). Snapshots aren't deleted after doing a backup to an external drive - that snapshot doubles as another local snapshot. Snapshots get pruned automatically if free disk space is running low. -- David Empson dempson@actrix.gen.nz
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| From | JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-11-12 18:26 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <6%nGD.259902$xo2.66219@fx31.iad> |
| In reply to | #119489 |
On 2018-11-12 03:57, David Empson wrote: > That is exactly how TM already does backups from a source APFS volume > (on High Sierra and later). Snapshots aren't deleted after doing a > backup to an external drive - that snapshot doubles as another local > snapshot. Since my hard drive is APFS, how do I go about finding the snapshot made whenever Time Machine makes a backup ? Or it it made is some hidden APFS partition/volume?
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| From | Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-11-13 01:12 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <g4umo9F8rgkU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #119506 |
On 2018-11-12, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote: > On 2018-11-12 03:57, David Empson wrote: > >> That is exactly how TM already does backups from a source APFS volume >> (on High Sierra and later). Snapshots aren't deleted after doing a >> backup to an external drive - that snapshot doubles as another local >> snapshot. > > Since my hard drive is APFS, how do I go about finding the snapshot made > whenever Time Machine makes a backup ? Or it it made is some hidden APFS > partition/volume? The same way you always have: # tmutil listbackups ... /Volumes/Time Machine Backups/Backups.backupdb/macpro/2018-11-08-200347 /Volumes/Time Machine Backups/Backups.backupdb/macpro/2018-11-09-175941 /Volumes/Time Machine Backups/Backups.backupdb/macpro/2018-11-10-100226 /Volumes/Time Machine Backups/Backups.backupdb/macpro/2018-11-11-032941 -- E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter. I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead. JR
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| From | JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-11-12 23:44 -0500 |
| Message-ID | <WEsGD.603990$MN2.206050@fx02.iad> |
| In reply to | #119511 |
On 2018-11-12 20:12, Jolly Roger wrote: > > # tmutil listbackups > ... > /Volumes/Time Machine Backups/Backups.backupdb/macpro/2018-11-08-200347 For me, this poduces a listing that only points to backups on the external drive. I was told Time machine creates a snapshot of an APFS source and then performs the backup on the snapshot (which ensures no fgiles are changed between start and end of backup). So I was wondering if those snapshots of the system disk are visible to the end user. (and would be on the system disk, not on the target backup)
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| From | Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> |
|---|---|
| Date | 2018-11-13 18:17 +0000 |
| Message-ID | <g50ip9Fld1aU1@mid.individual.net> |
| In reply to | #119513 |
On 2018-11-13, JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> wrote: > On 2018-11-12 20:12, Jolly Roger wrote: >> >> # tmutil listbackups >> ... >> /Volumes/Time Machine Backups/Backups.backupdb/macpro/2018-11-08-200347 > > For me, this poduces a listing that only points to backups on the > external drive. > > I was told Time machine creates a snapshot of an APFS sourcei You didn't ask how to list local snapshots. > So I was wondering if those snapshots of the system disk are visible to > the end user. (and would be on the system disk, not on the target backup) Yep. RTFM - if you can. -- E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter. I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead. JR
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