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Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User

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From Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Newsgroups comp.sys.mac.system
Subject Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User
Date 12 Feb 2015 16:03:18 GMT
Organization People for the Ethical Treatment of Pirates
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On 2015-02-12, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> Okay, so one time? In band camp? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> was all, like:
>
>> While *you* certainly can consider it "useless" for your own uses, you
>> don't get to impose your beliefs on the rest of the world.
>
> "Useless" is not a belief, it is a value judgment based on facts. There
> is absolutely no security offered by MAC address filtering on a secured
> network. None. Zero. Nada. Zilch.

The fact remains that manufacturers overwhelmingly place it in the
"security" section of router configuration pages. Call it whatever you
like, but that's where it shows up, and people tend to think of access
controls as part of security. You are arguing semantics, which is not
at all constructive.

>> If someone decides to give their network password to their family
>> living in the same house, and they also decide that they want to white
>> list the MAC addresses of known devices in the house so that they can
>> control which devices can connect without changing that password,
>> that's certainly their prerogative, and they will almost certainly
>> debate your "useless" assessment.
>
> I am happy to debate how adding MAC address filtering to their LAN will
> increase their security.

You clearly refuse to concede that some people may find MAC address
filtering to be useful, even though you have already admitted it can be
an effective way of blocking unknown devices from connecting to a
network. And you are hell bent on this silly semantic argument about
"security". Talking with you about this is becoming a waste of time. 

>>> If you are using encryption, MAC filtering gains you exactly nothing
>>> in securing your access point. And if you are not using encryption,
>>> MAC filtering gains you exactly nothing in securing your access point.
>
>> No, it adds another level of access control (since you seem to have such
>> a problem using the word "security" in this context) to the system.
>
> We are talking about security. If you'd like to change the topic, go
> ahead.

No, we are talking about "MAC address filtering", because someone asked
whether Apple's access points supported it. You and nospam seem to be
the ones wanting to change the subject to general security.

>> That's what key-based encryption is for. And as I'm sure you are aware,
>> even key-based encryption can be cracked with enough time, know-how, and
>> determination.
>
> Millions of years for even a 9 character password.

Not always - depends on the router and security measures in place:

"Tews and his co-researcher Martin Beck found a way to break the
Temporal Key Integrity Protocol (TKIP) key, used by WPA, in a relatively
short amount of time: 12 to 15 minutes, according to Dragos Ruiu, the
PacSec conference's organizer."

<http://www.pcworld.com/article/153396/wifi_hacked.html>

"In my successful test, Reaver took 2 hours and 30 minutes to crack the
network and deliver me with the correct password."

<http://lifehacker.com/5873407/how-to-crack-a-wi-fi-networks-wpa-password-with-reaver>

And I have little doubt that one day someone will find a way to crack
even the most secure encryption available at the moment. The point is
that while some are stronger than others, anyone who is determined can
bypass a number of access control methods. 

Some people find MAC address filtering to be a useful feature, and those
people will use it, whether you like it or not.

Anyway, we've surpassed the point of usefulness of this conversation, so
I'll go ahead and bow out of this discussion now. Enjoy having the last
word.

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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Thread

Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User TaliesinSoft <taliesinsoft@me.com> - 2015-02-08 21:47 -0600
  Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2015-02-08 20:37 -0800
  Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-02-08 21:37 -0700
  Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Tom Stiller <clusterfux.upmon@gmail.com> - 2015-02-09 14:05 +0000
    Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2015-02-09 09:19 -0500
    Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-02-09 13:01 -0500
    Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2015-02-10 10:55 +0100
      Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-02-10 14:00 +0000
        Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2015-02-10 20:08 +0100
      Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-02-10 14:42 -0500
        Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-02-10 20:03 +0000
          Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-02-10 16:05 -0500
            Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-02-10 21:17 +0000
              Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2015-02-10 19:51 -0500
      Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-02-10 20:54 +0000
        Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-02-10 21:18 +0000
          Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-02-10 22:37 +0000
            Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-02-11 00:04 +0000
              Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-02-11 12:37 +0000
                Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-02-11 15:07 +0000
                Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-02-11 15:16 +0000
                Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-02-11 08:32 -0700
                Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-02-11 15:53 +0000
                Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-02-11 08:24 -0700
                Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2015-02-11 15:27 +0000
                Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-02-11 15:53 +0000
                Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-02-11 12:22 -0500
                Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-02-11 18:00 +0000
                Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-02-12 01:51 +0000
                Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-02-12 14:11 +0000
                Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-02-12 14:52 +0000
                Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-02-12 15:11 +0000
                Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-02-12 15:38 +0000
                Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-02-12 16:03 +0000
                Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2015-02-14 11:00 -0500
                Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-02-14 19:44 +0000
                Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2015-02-14 10:58 -0500
                Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-02-14 16:47 +0000
                Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-02-15 01:10 +0000
                Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-02-15 01:39 +0000
                Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2015-02-15 09:24 -0500
                Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-02-15 14:56 +0000
                Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2015-02-15 11:13 -0500
                Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-02-15 16:53 +0000
                Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2015-02-15 18:01 -0500
                Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-02-16 01:38 +0000
                Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2015-02-16 12:04 -0500
  Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2015-02-09 09:21 -0500
    Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User TaliesinSoft <taliesinsoft@me.com> - 2015-02-09 14:05 -0600
      Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2015-02-09 15:32 -0500
      Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-02-09 20:58 +0000

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