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Groups > comp.sys.mac.system > #69734

Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User

From Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com>
Newsgroups comp.sys.mac.system
Subject Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User
Date 2015-02-12 15:11 +0000
Organization People for the Ethical Treatment of Pirates
Message-ID <ck3u58Fgf2pU1@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References (7 earlier) <slrnmdmj97.13ch.g.kreme@kreme.eternal-september.org> <110220150824085780%michelle@michelle.org> <slrnmdo1qi.14cj.g.kreme@kreme.eternal-september.org> <ck3qkcFfmsdU1@mid.individual.net> <slrnmdpfii.16bi.g.kreme@kreme.eternal-september.org>

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On 2015-02-12, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
> Okay, so one time? In band camp? Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> was all, like:
>> On 2015-02-12, Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>>> Okay, so one time? In band camp? Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> was all, like:
>>>> In article <slrnmdmj97.13ch.g.kreme@kreme.eternal-september.org>, Lewis
>>>> <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> wrote:
>>>
>>>>> > And what he said is technically true. MAC address white lists *do*
>>>>> > prevent devices with MAC addresses that are not on the list from
>>>>> > connecting.
>>>>> 
>>>>> But it is trivial to spoof a MAC address that IS on the list.
>>>
>>>> But one would first have to know that MAC address.
>>>
>>> Nope. You can monitor the wifi stream for a valid MAC address.
>
>> Yes, if both of these are true:
>
>> * you know how
>> * you have a device that will allow it
>
>> But the important point is spoofing a MAC address doesn't nullify other
>> protections that are in place. MAC address filtering is just an
>> additional layer on top of better security measures in place.
>
> MAC address filtering is not security.

My goodness, you guys just can't seem to let this go...

You are arguing semantics, which is not constructive. MAC filtering is
an access control that is often in the "Security" section of a router's
configuration page, as shown in this example:

<http://documentation.netgear.com/fvs336g/enu/202-10257-01/FVS336G_RM-06-16.html>

While most router manufacturers consider it a "security" feature,
Apple's routers call it "access control". But it doesn't matter what you
call it, as long as you know what it does.

>> It's there to prevent *casual* users from connecting unknown devices
>> to the access point.
>
> Which is completely pointless if the access point is secure.

While *you* certainly can consider it "useless" for your own uses, you
don't get to impose your beliefs on the rest of the world. If someone
decides to give their network password to their family living in the
same house, and they also decide that they want to white list the MAC
addresses of known devices in the house so that they can control which
devices can connect without changing that password, that's certainly
their prerogative, and they will almost certainly debate your "useless"
assessment.

> If you are using encryption, MAC filtering gains you exactly nothing
> in securing your access point. And if you are not using encryption,
> MAC filtering gains you exactly nothing in securing your access point.

No, it adds another level of access control (since you seem to have such
a problem using the word "security" in this context) to the system.

> OK, fine, if you have someone who is totally clueless, cannot use
> Google, or only has an iOS device, then MAC address filtering might
> stop them connecting

Then it's not "useless", is it?

> but it will not stop anyone who wants to connect.

That's what key-based encryption is for. And as I'm sure you are aware,
even key-based encryption can be cracked with enough time, know-how, and
determination.

> It's about as secure as locking your front door with a zip tie. Sure,
> someone without a knife or a strong stick might not be able to open
> your door, but no one would call that 'locked'.

Again, I haven't seen a single person here suggest that one should rely
*solely* on MAC address filtering for security - certainly not me. You
and nospam seem to be the only ones acting as if they are somehow
mutually exclusive, which is not the case.

> Encryption will, assuming a decent non-WEP password, actually prevent
> *anyone* from connecting who isn't authorized, even those who really
> want to connect.

Not someone who is really determined and has the know-how. WPA has been
cracked before by those who really want to get in:

<http://www.pcworld.com/article/153396/wifi_hacked.html>

As much as I hate repeating myself: MAC address filtering is there to
prevent casual users from connecting unknown devices, and is meant to
augment key-based encryption security already in place on a router. The
two are not mutually exclusive and can be legitimately used together.
Why you guys continue to argue as if anyone is claiming MAC address
filtering should be used by itself is beyond me, since nobody here has
made such a suggestion TMK. Very strange!

-- 
E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my ravenous SPAM filter.
I often ignore posts from Google. Use a real news client instead.

JR

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Thread

Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User TaliesinSoft <taliesinsoft@me.com> - 2015-02-08 21:47 -0600
  Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2015-02-08 20:37 -0800
  Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-02-08 21:37 -0700
  Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Tom Stiller <clusterfux.upmon@gmail.com> - 2015-02-09 14:05 +0000
    Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2015-02-09 09:19 -0500
    Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-02-09 13:01 -0500
    Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2015-02-10 10:55 +0100
      Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-02-10 14:00 +0000
        Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Paul Sture <nospam@sture.ch> - 2015-02-10 20:08 +0100
      Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-02-10 14:42 -0500
        Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-02-10 20:03 +0000
          Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-02-10 16:05 -0500
            Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-02-10 21:17 +0000
              Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2015-02-10 19:51 -0500
      Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-02-10 20:54 +0000
        Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-02-10 21:18 +0000
          Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-02-10 22:37 +0000
            Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-02-11 00:04 +0000
              Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-02-11 12:37 +0000
                Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-02-11 15:07 +0000
                Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-02-11 15:16 +0000
                Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-02-11 08:32 -0700
                Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-02-11 15:53 +0000
                Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2015-02-11 08:24 -0700
                Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Huge <Huge@nowhere.much.invalid> - 2015-02-11 15:27 +0000
                Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-02-11 15:53 +0000
                Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2015-02-11 12:22 -0500
                Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-02-11 18:00 +0000
                Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-02-12 01:51 +0000
                Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-02-12 14:11 +0000
                Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-02-12 14:52 +0000
                Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-02-12 15:11 +0000
                Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-02-12 15:38 +0000
                Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-02-12 16:03 +0000
                Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2015-02-14 11:00 -0500
                Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-02-14 19:44 +0000
                Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2015-02-14 10:58 -0500
                Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-02-14 16:47 +0000
                Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2015-02-15 01:10 +0000
                Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-02-15 01:39 +0000
                Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2015-02-15 09:24 -0500
                Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-02-15 14:56 +0000
                Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2015-02-15 11:13 -0500
                Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-02-15 16:53 +0000
                Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2015-02-15 18:01 -0500
                Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-02-16 01:38 +0000
                Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2015-02-16 12:04 -0500
  Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2015-02-09 09:21 -0500
    Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User TaliesinSoft <taliesinsoft@me.com> - 2015-02-09 14:05 -0600
      Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2015-02-09 15:32 -0500
      Re: Apple Time Capsule -- Unknown User Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2015-02-09 20:58 +0000

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