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Groups > comp.sys.mac.system > #54971
| From | Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.sys.mac.system |
| Message-ID | <2014011909432986389-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom> (permalink) |
| References | (14 earlier) <x7Odnea6Xu5jPUfPnZ2dnUVZ_oOdnZ2d@giganews.com> <2014011808271844445-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom> <dJSdnd3bmPsyKEfPnZ2dnUVZ_o-dnZ2d@giganews.com> <2014011810111811100-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom> <urydncjYIOrrcUbPnZ2dnUVZ_s-dnZ2d@giganews.com> |
| Subject | Re: Big problem with OS X |
| Organization | http://www.panic.com/unison/ |
| Date | 2014-01-19 09:43 -0800 |
On 2014-01-19 15:17:10 +0000, Alan Browne
<alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> said:
> On 2014.01.18, 13:11 , Savageduck wrote:
>> On 2014-01-18 17:11:11 +0000, Alan Browne
>> <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> said:
>>
>>> On 2014.01.18, 11:27 , Savageduck wrote:
>>>> On 2014-01-18 15:42:53 +0000, Alan Browne
>>>> <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> said:
>>>>
>>>>> On 2014.01.17, 11:22 , Michelle Steiner wrote:
>>>>>> In article <2014011708190514484-savageduck1@REMOVESPAMmecom>,
>>>>>> Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Then there are those of us who are somewhere in the spectrum between
>>>>>>>> those extremes. The reason that I don't own a firearm is that I'd
>>>>>>>> rather spend my money on other things, but if I ever do buy one, it
>>>>>>>> will probably be this one:
>>>>>>>> <http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_7
>>>>>>>> 50051_765955_-1_757767_757751_757751_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A good choice. You can't go too far wrong with a S&W wheel gun.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> For financial reasons, I might opt for the seven- or even six-round
>>>>>> version instead of this eight-round one.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'd shoot .38 at the range to keep in practice, but use .357 magnum for
>>>>>> home protection.
>>>>>
>>>>> You can shoot .38 through your .357 for practice (though you should
>>>>> shoot some practice .357's as well).
>>>>>
>>>>> But for home defense you might be better off with a 9mm or 10mm that you
>>>>> can control with more ammo in the mag than a revolver.
>>>>
>>>> 10mm is a harsh round to fire, double taps are not easy and there is a
>>>> tendency for over penetration. That isn't a good thing inside a home.
>
>>>> The FBI looked to the 10mm to replace the .38 Special as their official
>>>> weapon after a notorious Florida shootout which resulted in several
>>>> agents being killed and disabled. They subsequently found it was not a
>>>> practical combat round and have pretty much gone to the .40 S&W, and
>>>> the good old .45 ACP.
>>>>
>>>> Our agency went from .38 Special +P. to 9mm, to .40 S&W which is now the
>>>> standard.
>>>>
>>>> For home defense a consideration should always be potential over
>>>> penetration indoors, and the .357 mag, 9mm, & 10mm all have that
>>>> potential. I will stick with my "flying ashtray" the .45 ACP and/or a
>>>> shot gun.
>>>>
>>>> If the gun is a 357/38sp I would use either Glaser Safety slugs, or
>>>> MagSafe rounds for home defense, not FMJ or JHP ammo.
>>>> As far as needing more ammo goes, if you can't get it done with 6 shots
>>>> you are in trouble, and a good double action revolver can remove some of
>>>> the issues related to operator foul up under stress to be found with
>>>> automatics. Like not having a round in the chamber, safety on, no
>>>> magazine in the gun, all of which does happen.
>>>
>>> (The old argument was "you don't need a spare clip. If you can't get it
>>> done with 11 (whatever number)...")
>>>
>>> I might agree that 6 is enough. But then 1 should be enough. So more
>>> rounds in a pistol is better than 5 to 7 in a revolver if it comes to it.
>>
>> More is not necessarily better. Sort of like the photography adage; "The
>> best camera (gun) is the one you have with you."
>>
>> In a six shot DA revolver I usually load 5 rounds and have two loaded 6
>> round speed loaders handy. For my .45 I have 7 & 8 round magazines. When
>> I carry, I carry "cocked & locked",. that is with a round in the chamber
>> and safety on. The 1911 .45 ACP is not a double action semi-automatic,
>> and "cocked & locked" carry is only recommended for shooters who have
>> trained with their weapon in this mode.
>>
>> My Glock M23 has a 13 round mag and is also carried with a round in the
>> chamber, but it functions much the same way as a double action revolver
>> and has no safety as such. The trigger pull on the Glock, even after
>> tuning, is truly awful. It doesn't get out much these days.
>>
>>> I shot a small ladies 9mm a few years ago. No hammer to snag
>>> (internal), no safety to forget. Point and shoot. (not esp. accurate
>>> but at 10 - 15 feet you'll do enough enough damage or at least get him
>>> running.)
>>
>> I am not a particular fan of the 9mm. For that type of compact pistol I
>> would almost prefer a .380 over a 9mm.
>
> We're Canadian. Metric named rounds have to be better.
;-)
> The 9mm imparts about 40% more energy to the bullet.
Than what, a .380?
Imparting that energy, as you said is the important thing. 9mm are
notorious for using that energy to produce through and through wounds
without imparting any of that energy to the subject. A .357 Mag has a
similar problem, however that round introduces such a high degree of
hydrostatic shock the energy transfer is irrelevant. The over
penetration problem still exists for both 9mm and 375 Mag.
> More energy on target is what it's all about - so with the frangible
> rounds (not tested in the article) you'll leave more damage, at least
> with the safety rounds, in the 9mm than the .380.
The .380 is just an option which can make for easier good shot
placement, handling, & concealment for those not comfortable dealing
with hot rounds out of a 9mm, or bigger.
As I have said my preference lies with the .45 ACP and the .40 S&W.
> The non safety rounds of course have a higher risk of going straight
> through with the 9mm.
That is the point of their existence.
They also do a very good job of transferring the maximum bullet energy
to the subject. The analogy can be made to placing one's hand on a flat
surface and then stabbing through it with an icepick. The energy of the
thrust is focused on the point and is expended in traveling through.
Damage and energy transferred to the hand is minimal. Now pound the
hand with a 15 pound hammer. Energy transfer is applied directly to the
hand and damage will be severe.
The frangible rounds do much the same thing in transferring all their
energy to the target and do not waste it with penetration.
>>
>>> Are "safety" rounds available in 9 mm?
>>
>> Yes, both Glaser Safety Slugs & Magsafe.
>> < http://www.corbon.com/safety-slug/general/glaser-safety-slug >
>> < http://magsafeonline.com/magnum_performance.html >
>
> So much for over penetration/drywall-downrange risks.
They reduce the risk of over penetration.
>>> A regular shotgun is not a good close quarters weapon unless it's
>>> modified to the point of being illegal (something I never understood - a
>>> sawed off is a great home defense weapon).
>>
>> What modification. Just get a Remington 870, a Mossberg 500, or 590, or a
>> Winchester SXP
>> <
>> http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/shotguns/model-870/model-870-express-tactical.aspx
<
>>
>> http://www.mossberg.com/product/shotguns-pump-action-500-special-purpose-500-6-and-8-shot-center-mass-laser/50599
<
>>
>> http://www.mossberg.com/product/shotguns-pump-action-590-special-purpose-special-purpose-9-shot/50645
<
>>
>> http://www.winchesterguns.com/products/catalog/detail.asp?family=021C&mid=512252
Too
>>
> long for home defense at 02:30.
Nope! Perfect for home defense at anytime.
> A lupara is what you want (only two barrels though - but that should be
> enough).
Very effective, but not particularly good for follow up, particularly
without practice.
>>
>>> A .45 is heavy.
>>
>> That depends on the .45.
>> A full sized Colt 1911 is a hefty chunk of steel and is quite heavy. I
>> have a Kimber CDP II custom carry, which has an alloy frame and slide,
>> and is more compact than the full size 1911. The are smaller more
>> compact & lighter .45's from Colt, Kimber, Springfield, Glock,
>> Sig-Sauer, & S&W.
>>
>> Some of Kimber's offerings.
>> < http://www.kimberamerica.com/1911/ultra-carry-ii >
>>
>> ...and here is a nice compact S&W 45.
>> <http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_766210_-1_757754_757752_757751_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y
If
>>
>> you want a really small .45 there is the Glock M36.
>>
>>> My SO couldn't handle one for more than a few shots (though a 7mm Mag
>>> or .300 Mag rifle doesn't faze her 120 lbs. of lean frame - shooting
>>> prone anyway).
>>
>> Couldn't handle the weight or the recoil?
>
> The weight. She doesn't _like_ recoil. But she'll shoot anything. A
> rifle, prone, is 'weightless' for the shooter...
>
> I see what you say about more compact/lighter .45's. I haven't handled one.
--
Regards,
Savageduck
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Re: Big problem with OS X gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2014-01-05 09:44 -0800
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Re: Big problem with OS X George Kerby <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> - 2014-01-05 18:24 -0600
Re: Big problem with OS X williamwright.orsk@gmail.com <williamwright.orsk@gmail.com> - 2014-01-05 22:19 +0000
Re: Big problem with OS X Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-01-05 08:45 -0700
Re: Big problem with OS X Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-01-05 16:28 +0000
Re: Big problem with OS X williamwright.orsk@gmail.com - 2014-01-05 08:44 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X George Kerby <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> - 2014-01-05 15:28 -0600
Re: Big problem with OS X williamwright.orsk@gmail.com - 2014-01-05 08:53 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X David Fritzinger <dfritzin@nospam.mac.com> - 2014-01-05 13:13 -0500
Re: Big problem with OS X George Kerby <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> - 2014-01-05 15:25 -0600
Re: Big problem with OS X williamwright.orsk@gmail.com - 2014-01-05 13:39 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2014-01-05 09:40 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X George Kerby <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> - 2014-01-05 15:33 -0600
Re: Big problem with OS X George Kerby <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> - 2014-01-05 15:17 -0600
Re: Big problem with OS X bill van <billvan@delete.shaw.ca> - 2014-01-05 14:45 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X George Kerby <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> - 2014-01-05 18:32 -0600
Re: Big problem with OS X bill van <billvan@delete.shaw.ca> - 2014-01-05 17:10 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-01-05 19:48 -0500
Re: Big problem with OS X bill van <billvan@delete.shaw.ca> - 2014-01-05 17:09 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X Warren Oates <warren.oates@gmail.com> - 2014-01-05 22:06 -0500
Re: Big problem with OS X williamwright.orsk@gmail.com - 2014-01-06 04:49 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2014-01-05 21:57 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X "D.F. Manno" <dfmanno@mail.com> - 2014-01-16 13:02 -0500
Re: Big problem with OS X Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2014-01-16 14:22 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X George Kerby <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> - 2014-01-17 08:38 -0600
Re: Big problem with OS X Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-01-17 08:26 -0700
Re: Big problem with OS X Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2014-01-17 08:19 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-01-17 09:22 -0700
Re: Big problem with OS X Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2014-01-17 10:26 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-01-17 12:24 -0700
Re: Big problem with OS X Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-01-17 21:29 +0000
Re: Big problem with OS X williamwright.orsk@gmail.com - 2014-01-18 06:43 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-01-18 08:09 -0700
Re: Big problem with OS X Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2014-01-18 07:44 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-01-18 10:56 -0500
Re: Big problem with OS X Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2014-01-18 08:43 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-01-18 12:12 -0500
Re: Big problem with OS X erilar <drache@chibardun.net.invalid> - 2014-01-18 16:24 -0600
Re: Big problem with OS X George Kerby <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> - 2014-01-18 10:10 -0600
Re: Big problem with OS X Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-01-18 14:22 -0700
Re: Big problem with OS X John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2014-01-24 22:56 +0000
Re: Big problem with OS X erilar <drache@chibardun.net.invalid> - 2014-01-18 16:23 -0600
Re: Big problem with OS X George Kerby <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> - 2014-01-18 10:09 -0600
Re: Big problem with OS X williamwright.orsk@gmail.com - 2014-01-19 02:58 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-01-18 10:40 +0000
Re: Big problem with OS X Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-01-18 06:37 -0700
Re: Big problem with OS X Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2014-01-18 07:42 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-01-19 04:15 +0000
Re: Big problem with OS X John <Man@the.keyboard> - 2014-01-24 22:55 +0000
Re: Big problem with OS X Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2014-01-24 16:23 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-01-24 23:37 -0700
Re: Big problem with OS X Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2014-01-24 22:52 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-01-18 10:42 -0500
Re: Big problem with OS X Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2014-01-18 08:27 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2014-01-18 09:01 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-01-18 15:50 -0500
Re: Big problem with OS X Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2014-01-18 13:08 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X George Kerby <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> - 2014-01-18 15:10 -0600
Re: Big problem with OS X Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-01-19 01:45 +0000
Re: Big problem with OS X Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-01-19 10:28 -0500
Re: Big problem with OS X Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2014-01-19 08:56 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-01-19 12:18 -0500
Re: Big problem with OS X Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-01-19 10:36 -0700
Re: Big problem with OS X Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2014-01-19 10:08 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-01-19 21:38 +0000
Re: Big problem with OS X Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-01-19 22:29 -0700
Re: Big problem with OS X Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-01-20 10:01 +0000
Re: Big problem with OS X Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-01-21 09:16 +1300
Re: Big problem with OS X Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-01-20 20:43 +0000
Re: Big problem with OS X Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-01-21 13:29 +1300
Re: Big problem with OS X Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-01-21 10:35 +0000
Re: Big problem with OS X George Kerby <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> - 2014-01-20 19:33 -0600
Re: Big problem with OS X Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-01-21 10:37 +0000
Re: Big problem with OS X Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-01-19 21:36 +0000
Re: Big problem with OS X "M. John Matlaw" <nouser@invalid.com> - 2014-01-19 15:46 -0500
Re: Big problem with OS X Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-01-19 19:37 -0500
Re: Big problem with OS X "William Wright" <williamwright.orsk@gmail.com> - 2014-01-22 09:11 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-01-23 08:49 +1300
Re: Big problem with OS X williamwright.orsk@gmail.com - 2014-01-25 01:37 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-01-26 09:41 +1300
Re: Big problem with OS X williamwright.orsk@gmail.com - 2014-01-28 11:43 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-01-29 09:37 +1300
Re: Big problem with OS X "M. John Matlaw" <nouser@invalid.com> - 2014-01-28 16:37 -0500
Re: Big problem with OS X Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2014-01-28 12:52 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-01-29 15:57 +0000
Re: Big problem with OS X williamwright.orsk@gmail.com - 2014-01-29 08:28 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovethis@gmail.com> - 2014-01-29 08:51 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X williamwright.orsk@gmail.com - 2014-01-29 09:06 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-29 14:36 -0500
Re: Big problem with OS X williamwright.orsk@gmail.com - 2014-01-29 11:39 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-29 14:53 -0500
Re: Big problem with OS X Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-01-30 09:26 +1300
Re: Big problem with OS X Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-01-29 16:43 -0500
Re: Big problem with OS X Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-01-30 13:20 +1300
Re: Big problem with OS X Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-02-01 16:24 -0500
Re: Big problem with OS X Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-02-02 11:25 +1300
Re: Big problem with OS X Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-02-01 17:54 -0500
Re: Big problem with OS X Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-02-02 12:18 +1300
Re: Big problem with OS X Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-02-01 18:21 -0500
Re: Big problem with OS X Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-02-02 12:47 +1300
Re: Big problem with OS X Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-02-02 09:20 -0500
Re: Big problem with OS X Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-02-03 09:00 +1300
Re: Big problem with OS X Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-02-02 15:06 -0500
Re: Big problem with OS X George Kerby <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> - 2014-02-02 14:58 -0600
Re: Big problem with OS X Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-01-30 13:09 +0000
Re: Big problem with OS X Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-01-28 20:40 -0700
Re: Big problem with OS X williamwright.orsk@gmail.com - 2014-01-29 08:27 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-01-29 16:45 -0500
Re: Big problem with OS X Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-01-29 21:59 +0000
Re: Big problem with OS X Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-01-29 17:22 -0500
Re: Big problem with OS X Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-01-29 22:54 +0000
Re: Big problem with OS X Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-01-29 18:49 -0500
Re: Big problem with OS X Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-01-30 13:10 +0000
Re: Big problem with OS X Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-01-30 14:58 +0000
Re: Big problem with OS X Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-01-30 13:21 +1300
Re: Big problem with OS X Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-01-30 10:02 +0000
Re: Big problem with OS X williamwright.orsk@gmail.com <williamwright.orsk@gmail.com> - 2014-01-30 23:04 +0000
Re: Big problem with OS X Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2014-01-30 23:14 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-31 02:20 -0500
Re: Big problem with OS X Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2014-01-31 01:17 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X nospam <nospam@nospam.invalid> - 2014-01-31 13:22 -0500
Re: Big problem with OS X The 29th Earl of Grimsby <earl-of-grimsby@jwright20.plus.com> - 2014-01-31 23:29 +0000
Re: Big problem with OS X Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-01-18 12:11 -0500
Re: Big problem with OS X Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2014-01-18 10:11 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-01-18 14:32 -0700
Re: Big problem with OS X Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-01-19 10:17 -0500
Re: Big problem with OS X Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2014-01-19 09:43 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-01-19 13:31 -0500
Re: Big problem with OS X Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-01-18 14:25 -0700
Re: Big problem with OS X Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-01-19 10:33 -0500
Re: Big problem with OS X Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-01-17 16:36 +0000
Re: Big problem with OS X Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2014-01-17 09:27 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-01-17 12:16 -0700
Re: Big problem with OS X Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-01-17 19:36 +0000
Re: Big problem with OS X Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2014-01-17 11:44 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-01-17 13:21 -0700
Re: Big problem with OS X Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2014-01-17 13:25 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X erilar <drache@chibardun.net.invalid> - 2014-01-17 16:46 -0600
Re: Big problem with OS X Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-01-17 22:47 +0000
Re: Big problem with OS X Joe Wolf Dee <joedid@email.com> - 2014-01-17 18:04 -0500
Re: Big problem with OS X Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2014-01-17 15:20 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-01-17 23:28 +0000
Re: Big problem with OS X Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2014-01-17 16:16 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-01-18 16:44 +0000
Re: Big problem with OS X Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2014-01-17 15:20 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X Joe Wolf Dee <joedid@email.com> - 2014-01-17 18:29 -0500
Re: Big problem with OS X Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2014-01-17 16:15 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X erilar <drache@chibardun.net.invalid> - 2014-01-18 16:27 -0600
Re: Big problem with OS X Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2014-01-18 15:00 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X Joe Wolf Dee <joedid@email.com> - 2014-01-18 18:18 -0500
Re: Big problem with OS X Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-01-18 16:27 -0700
Re: Big problem with OS X Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-01-18 16:26 -0700
Re: Big problem with OS X Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-01-17 17:01 -0700
Re: Big problem with OS X Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2014-01-17 16:15 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-01-17 17:24 -0700
Re: Big problem with OS X Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2014-01-17 16:32 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-01-18 02:26 +0000
Re: Big problem with OS X Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2014-01-17 18:45 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-01-17 20:05 -0700
Re: Big problem with OS X Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-01-18 03:39 +0000
Re: Big problem with OS X Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2014-01-17 20:27 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-01-19 01:38 +0000
Re: Big problem with OS X Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-01-18 20:29 -0700
Re: Big problem with OS X Jolly Roger <jollyroger@pobox.com> - 2014-01-19 04:18 +0000
Re: Big problem with OS X Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-01-19 10:52 -0500
Re: Big problem with OS X Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-01-19 09:51 -0700
Re: Big problem with OS X Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-01-19 12:01 -0500
Re: Big problem with OS X Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-01-19 10:36 -0700
Re: Big problem with OS X Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-01-19 13:16 -0500
Re: Big problem with OS X Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2014-01-19 10:14 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-01-19 13:35 -0500
Re: Big problem with OS X williamwright.orsk@gmail.com - 2014-01-19 11:29 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X George Kerby <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> - 2014-01-19 14:29 -0600
Re: Big problem with OS X Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-01-20 09:05 +1300
Re: Big problem with OS X Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2014-01-19 12:52 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-01-19 22:36 -0700
Re: Big problem with OS X Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-01-29 16:47 -0500
Re: Big problem with OS X JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-01-19 18:06 -0500
Re: Big problem with OS X Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-01-19 19:36 -0500
Re: Big problem with OS X JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-01-19 20:05 -0500
Re: Big problem with OS X Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-01-20 09:58 +0000
Re: Big problem with OS X Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-01-20 18:15 -0500
Re: Big problem with OS X JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-01-19 17:38 -0500
Re: Big problem with OS X Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-01-20 13:24 +1300
Re: Big problem with OS X JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-01-19 20:09 -0500
Re: Big problem with OS X Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-01-20 16:36 +1300
Re: Big problem with OS X JF Mezei <jfmezei.spamnot@vaxination.ca> - 2014-01-17 23:35 -0500
Re: Big problem with OS X Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2014-01-17 20:51 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> - 2014-01-17 22:39 -0500
Re: Big problem with OS X Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-01-18 10:51 +0000
Re: Big problem with OS X Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-01-18 10:50 +0000
Re: Big problem with OS X Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-01-18 10:47 +0000
Re: Big problem with OS X J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> - 2014-01-17 22:30 -0500
Re: Big problem with OS X George Kerby <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> - 2014-01-18 09:57 -0600
Re: Big problem with OS X Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2014-01-18 08:51 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> - 2014-01-18 12:18 -0500
Re: Big problem with OS X Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-01-18 14:36 -0700
Re: Big problem with OS X Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2014-01-18 14:32 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-01-18 16:24 -0700
Re: Big problem with OS X Don Bruder <dakidd@sonic.net> - 2014-01-18 19:45 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X williamwright.orsk@gmail.com - 2014-01-19 03:00 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2014-01-18 09:22 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X George Kerby <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> - 2014-01-18 15:15 -0600
Re: Big problem with OS X Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-01-18 14:38 -0700
Re: Big problem with OS X erilar <drache@chibardun.net.invalid> - 2014-01-18 16:20 -0600
Re: Big problem with OS X Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2014-01-18 15:14 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X Lewis <g.kreme@gmail.com.dontsendmecopies> - 2014-01-19 04:16 +0000
Re: Big problem with OS X Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2014-01-18 14:56 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-01-18 14:35 -0700
Re: Big problem with OS X George Kerby <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> - 2014-01-18 17:43 -0600
Re: Big problem with OS X Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-01-17 15:27 +0000
Re: Big problem with OS X George Kerby <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> - 2014-01-18 10:00 -0600
Re: Big problem with OS X George Kerby <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> - 2014-01-19 14:34 -0600
Re: Big problem with OS X williamwright.orsk@gmail.com - 2014-01-06 04:32 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X Paul Magnussen <magiconinc@earthlink.net> - 2014-01-06 12:26 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> - 2014-01-06 16:22 -0500
Re: Big problem with OS X Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-01-07 13:09 +1300
Re: Big problem with OS X George Kerby <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> - 2014-01-04 22:10 -0600
Re: Big problem with OS X gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2014-01-02 11:43 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X William Wright <williamwright.orsk@gmail.com> - 2014-01-02 16:59 +0000
Re: Big problem with OS X William Wright <williamwright.orsk@gmail.com> - 2014-01-02 16:59 +0000
Re: Big problem with OS X William Wright <williamwright.orsk@gmail.com> - 2014-01-02 16:59 +0000
Re: Big problem with OS X William Wright <williamwright.orsk@gmail.com> - 2014-01-02 16:59 +0000
Re: Big problem with OS X George Kerby <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> - 2014-01-02 12:43 -0600
Re: Big problem with OS X William Wright <williamwright.orsk@gmail.com> - 2014-01-02 19:09 +0000
Re: Big problem with OS X gtr <xxx@yyy.zzz> - 2014-01-02 11:46 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X williamwright.orsk@gmail.com - 2014-01-02 11:48 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X android <here@there.was> - 2014-01-02 20:48 +0100
Re: Big problem with OS X williamwright.orsk@gmail.com - 2014-01-02 12:11 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X android <here@there.was> - 2014-01-02 21:14 +0100
Re: Big problem with OS X Imaginary <spamproof@nowhere.invalid> - 2014-01-02 19:46 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X George Kerby <ghost_topper@hotmail.com> - 2014-01-02 12:41 -0600
Re: Big problem with OS X William Wright <williamwright.orsk@gmail.com> - 2014-01-02 09:24 +0000
Re: Big problem with OS X Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-01-02 13:26 +0000
Re: Big problem with OS X David Fritzinger <dfritzin@nospam.mac.com> - 2014-01-02 12:27 -0500
Re: Big problem with OS X williamwright.orsk@gmail.com - 2014-01-02 11:44 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X David Fritzinger <dfritzin@nospam.mac.com> - 2014-01-03 12:09 -0500
Re: Big problem with OS X williamwright.orsk@gmail.com - 2014-01-03 10:42 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X David Fritzinger <dfritzin@nospam.mac.com> - 2014-01-04 14:17 -0500
Re: Big problem with OS X William Wright <williamwright.orsk@gmail.com> - 2014-01-04 23:39 +0000
Re: Big problem with OS X Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2014-01-04 19:58 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X David Fritzinger <dfritzin@nospam.mac.com> - 2014-01-05 13:15 -0500
Re: Big problem with OS X williamwright.orsk@gmail.com - 2014-01-05 10:22 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2014-01-02 13:14 +1300
Re: Big problem with OS X williamwright.orsk@gmail.com - 2014-01-02 11:46 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X Savageduck <savageduck1@{REMOVESPAM}me.com> - 2014-01-01 17:15 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X Michelle Steiner <michelle@michelle.org> - 2014-01-01 20:36 -0700
Re: Big problem with OS X Laszlo Lebrun <lazlo_lebrun@googlemail.com> - 2014-01-02 06:25 +0100
Re: Big problem with OS X android <here@there.was> - 2014-01-02 10:09 +0100
Re: Big problem with OS X Tim Streater <timstreater@greenbee.net> - 2014-01-02 09:08 +0000
Re: Big problem with OS X android <here@there.was> - 2014-01-02 10:12 +0100
Re: Big problem with OS X Howard.not@home.com (Howard) - 2014-01-05 01:00 +0000
Re: Big problem with OS X williamwright.orsk@gmail.com - 2014-01-05 08:53 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X williamwright.orsk@gmail.com - 2014-01-05 13:40 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> - 2014-01-05 18:17 -0500
Re: Big problem with OS X williamwright.orsk@gmail.com <williamwright.orsk@gmail.com> - 2014-01-06 07:55 +0000
Re: Big problem with OS X J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> - 2014-01-06 04:33 -0500
Re: Big problem with OS X williamwright.orsk@gmail.com - 2014-01-06 03:15 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> - 2014-01-06 13:59 -0500
Re: Big problem with OS X williamwright.orsk@gmail.com - 2014-01-06 11:45 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X J Burns <burns4@nowhere.com> - 2014-01-06 15:33 -0500
Re: Big problem with OS X williamwright.orsk@gmail.com - 2014-01-06 03:20 -0800
Re: Big problem with OS X android <here@there.was> - 2014-01-06 20:18 +0100
Re: Big problem with OS X williamwright.orsk@gmail.com - 2014-01-06 12:12 -0800
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