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Re: The 11 iOS features that Arlen is ignorant of

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  Re: The 11 iOS features that Arlen is ignorant of Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-08-20 16:57 +0000
    Re: The 11 iOS features that Arlen is ignorant of Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-08-20 21:17 +0000
      Re: The 11 iOS features that Arlen is ignorant of Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-08-21 00:11 +0000
        Re: The 11 iOS features that Arlen is ignorant of Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-08-21 07:14 +0000
        Re: The 11 iOS features that Arlen is ignorant of Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-08-21 21:30 +0000
          Re: The 11 iOS features that Arlen is ignorant of Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-08-22 02:03 +0000
            Re: The 11 iOS features that Arlen is ignorant of Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-08-23 11:56 +0000
              Re: The 11 iOS features that Arlen is ignorant of Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-08-24 01:22 +0000
    Re: The 11 iOS features that Arlen is ignorant of Tom Elam <thomas.e.elam@gmail.com> - 2025-08-23 16:22 -0700
      Re: The 11 iOS features that Arlen is ignorant of Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-08-24 01:31 +0000
      Re: The 11 iOS features that Arlen is ignorant of -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2025-08-24 17:14 -0400
        Re: The 11 iOS features that Arlen is ignorant of Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-08-25 01:26 +0000
          Re: The 11 iOS features that Arlen is ignorant of -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2025-08-25 14:41 -0400
            Re: The 11 iOS features that Arlen is ignorant of Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2025-08-26 10:00 +1200
              Re: The 11 iOS features that Arlen is ignorant of Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-08-26 03:06 +0000
              Re: The 11 iOS features that Arlen is ignorant of Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-08-26 16:26 +0000
                Re: The 11 iOS features that Arlen is ignorant of Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-08-27 00:48 +0000
                  Re: The 11 iOS features that Arlen is ignorant of Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-08-27 16:43 +0000
                    Re: The 11 iOS features that Arlen is ignorant of Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-08-28 03:13 +0000
                      Re: The 11 iOS features that Arlen is ignorant of Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-08-28 19:23 +0000
                        Re: The 11 iOS features that Arlen is ignorant of Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-08-28 23:48 +0000
                          Re: The 11 iOS features that Arlen is ignorant of Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-08-29 15:28 +0000
                            Re: The 11 iOS features that Arlen is ignorant of Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-08-30 22:22 +0000
                              Re: The 11 iOS features that Arlen is ignorant of Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-08-31 16:59 +0000
                                Re: The 11 iOS features that Arlen is ignorant of Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-08-31 18:32 +0000
                                  Re: The 11 iOS features that Arlen is ignorant of Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-09-02 12:32 -0400
                                  Re: The 11 iOS features that Arlen is ignorant of Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-09-02 22:03 +0000
                                    Re: The 11 iOS features that Arlen is ignorant of Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-09-02 22:50 +0000
                                      Re: The 11 iOS features that Arlen is ignorant of Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> - 2025-09-03 15:28 +0000
                                        Re: The 11 iOS features that Arlen is ignorant of Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-09-03 17:11 +0000
                  Re: The 11 iOS features that Arlen is ignorant of Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-08-27 15:38 -0400
                    Re: The 11 iOS features that Arlen is ignorant of Tyrone <none@none.none> - 2025-08-27 21:16 +0000
                      Re: The 11 iOS features that Arlen is ignorant of Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-08-28 03:24 +0000
          Re: The 11 iOS features that Arlen is ignorant of badgolferman <REMOVETHISbadgolferman@gmail.com> - 2025-08-25 19:17 +0000
            Re: The 11 iOS features that Arlen is ignorant of Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-08-26 01:57 +0000
            Re: The 11 iOS features that Arlen is ignorant of Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-08-26 09:19 -0400
            Re: The 11 iOS features that Arlen is ignorant of -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2025-08-26 09:23 -0400
              Re: The 11 iOS features that Arlen is ignorant of Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> - 2025-08-27 08:40 +1200
                Re: The 11 iOS features that Arlen is ignorant of Marion <marion@facts.com> - 2025-08-28 03:42 +0000
                  Re: The 11 iOS features that Arlen is ignorant of Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-08-28 16:17 -0400
                  Re: The 11 iOS features that Arlen is ignorant of Alan <nuh-uh@nope.com> - 2025-08-28 16:19 -0400
                  Re: The 11 iOS features that Arlen is ignorant of -hh <recscuba_google@huntzinger.com> - 2025-08-29 10:46 -0400

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#136652 — Re: The 11 iOS features that Arlen is ignorant of

On Wed, 20 Aug 2025 07:10:31 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote :

>> Never think I'm anything like you
> 
> No risk of that. 

Heh heh heh... I love humor on Usenet.

The astoundingly huge delta between Apple trolls and me is mainly... 
a. I'm well educated (none of the Apple trolls can earn even a degree)
b. I'm not a herd animal (all of the Apple trolls are religious zealots)
c. I *test* every Apple claim (all Apple trolls trust Apple implicitly) 

>> I'm not afraid of facts.

The main fact I'm trying desperately to get adults to comprehend is there's 
(almost) no functionality on iOS that isn't already on Android because once 
they understand that fact, then we can begin to explore Apple's strategy.

You conflate a trademarked product name with the underlying feature or 
capability, especially when Apple's branding dominates public awareness.
 a. Kleenex is a brand;
 b. Facial tissue is the functionality;
 c. People say "Kleenex" when they mean any tissue, regardless of brand.

This is exactly like you saying "FaceTime" when you mean video calling.

>> I'd LOVE to learn if there's something else.
> 
> That's an utter lie. It took you almost a week to accept the SMB
> functionality and only succumbed when several ppl showed proof. Your MO is
> deny, deflect, attack. Which you're doing again here. 
> 
> Stop hiding.

A huge problem with Apple trolls is you misunderstand almost everything.

You actually believe the lies you just spewed. Yes. They're lies. 
You believe your own self-concocted lies because they fit your bias.

Trust me when I say I don't believe a word the Apple trolls say.
I need to repeat that for effect, Chris.

If Jolly Roger or Alan Baker tell me that iOS can do something, I don't 
believe them until I test it myself - which takes both time & effort.

Hell... do you really want me to delve into how the Apple trolls claimed
over and over again that iOS could graph Wi-Fi signal strength over time?
 *Snit video purportedly detailing iOS showing Wi-Fi dBm over time*
 <https://youtu.be/7QaABa6DFIo>
 *It's a fact iOS devices can't even graph Wi-Fi signal strength over time*
 <https://groups.google.com/g/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/c/PZuec56EWB0>

<https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/misc.phone.mobile.iphone/PZuec56EWB0>

The only person I trusted was Tyrone who actually used Windows 11.
I didn't believe a single other person, Chris.

The Apple trolls could have "said" it for months, Chris.
And it would have zero impact on me until I tested it myself.

Which I did.
And only after I tested it myself, did I believe Tyrone.

And, let's be clear, unlike Apple trolls whose ego is fragile because 
they've been told they're stupid their entire lives, I can admit when
I'm wrong, Chris. My ego is being able to learn the truth, Chris.

So stop it with your brazen lies, which I'm sure you believe.
Your entire belief system is based on your own lies, Chris.

I repeat for effect:
 1. I thought no app could use privileged ports
 2. The Apple trolls claimed iOS apps can use SMB ports
 3. I didn't take them seriously until Tyrone posted 
 4. Even then, I tested it myself to make sure for myself
 5. Then I profusely apologized & openly congratulated him

Yet you morally decrepit deceitful unprepossessing Apple trolls construe
that adult discovery, proof & public congratulation, as "hiding"??????

[toc] | [next] | [standalone]

#136653

Marion <marion@facts.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Aug 2025 07:10:31 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote :
> 
> 
> This is exactly like you saying "FaceTime" when you mean video calling.

That's not what I said. You're deflecting. 

>>> I'd LOVE to learn if there's something else.
>> 
>> That's an utter lie. It took you almost a week to accept the SMB
>> functionality and only succumbed when several ppl showed proof. Your MO is
>> deny, deflect, attack. Which you're doing again here. 
>> 
>> Stop hiding.
> 
> A huge problem with Apple trolls is you misunderstand almost everything.

Projection. 

You intentionally misconstrue things or pretend to misunderstand. 

> I can admit when
> I'm wrong, Chris. My ego is being able to learn the truth, Chris.

Another lie. Only last week (or the week before) you regurgitated your
dogma that iOS does nothing that Android can. I and someone else had to
remind you of the truth which you yourself tested. 

That's what prompted your thread where you refused to even *think* for
yourself. 

> So stop it with your brazen lies, which I'm sure you believe.

Projection. 

You simply cannot accept any fact that isn't a made up one of yours. 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#136654

On Wed, 20 Aug 2025 21:17:56 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote :


>> This is exactly like you saying "FaceTime" when you mean video calling.
> 
> That's not what I said. You're deflecting. 

I addressed EVERY one of your issues in detail in the thread on the topic.

 From: Marion <marion@facts.com>
 Newsgroups: misc.phone.mobile.iphone,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
 Subject: Re: Is there really only one thing that iOS can do that Android can't do?
 Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2025 05:39:42 -0000 (UTC)
 Message-ID: <107jsqu$2mb0$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com>

>> A huge problem with Apple trolls is you misunderstand almost everything.
> 
> Projection. 
> You intentionally misconstrue things or pretend to misunderstand.

You call this hiding! 
 1. I thought no app could use privileged ports on any operating system
 2. Yet the infamous Apple trolls claimed iOS apps can use SMB ports
 3. Obviously, I didn't take them seriously - at least until Tyrone posted 
 4. Even then, I tested Tyrone's claims in detail to make sure of the facts
 5. Then I profusely apologized & openly congratulated him & the others

Yet you morally decrepit deceitful unprepossessing Apple trolls construe
that adult discovery, proof & public congratulation, as "hiding"??????

>> I can admit when
>> I'm wrong, Chris. My ego is being able to learn the truth, Chris.
> 
> Another lie. Only last week (or the week before) you regurgitated your
> dogma that iOS does nothing that Android can. I and someone else had to
> remind you of the truth which you yourself tested. 
> 
> That's what prompted your thread where you refused to even *think* for
> yourself.

The fact remains I'm so not afraid of the facts that I posted this, Chris:
To read the article, simply paste the message-id into this lookup engine:
 <https://al.howardknight.net/>

Here... I'll do all the work for you, Chris:
 <https://al.howardknight.net/?STYPE=msgid&MSGI=%3C107jsqu%242mb0%241%40nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com%3E>
  
>> So stop it with your brazen lies, which I'm sure you believe.
> 
> Projection. 
> You simply cannot accept any fact that isn't a made up one of yours.

You call this "not accepting the facts"????????
 1. I thought no app could use privileged ports on any operating system
 2. Yet the infamous Apple trolls claimed iOS apps can use SMB ports
 3. Obviously, I didn't take them seriously - at least until Tyrone posted 
 4. Even then, I tested Tyrone's claims in detail to make sure of the facts
 5. Then I profusely apologized & openly congratulated him & the others

Yet you deceitful unprepossessing Apple trolls construe that adult 
discovery, proof & public congratulation, as "not accepting the facts"?????

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#136656

Marion <marion@facts.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Aug 2025 21:17:56 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote :
 
> The fact remains I'm so not afraid of the facts

Yet you regularly omit them when making your claims. Plus, you are
regularly incapable of evidencing your so-called "facts". 

>> Projection. 
>> You simply cannot accept any fact that isn't a made up one of yours.
> 
> You call this "not accepting the facts"????????
>  1. I thought no app could use privileged ports on any operating system
>  2. Yet the infamous Apple trolls claimed iOS apps can use SMB ports
>  3. Obviously, I didn't take them seriously - at least until Tyrone posted 
>  4. Even then, I tested Tyrone's claims in detail to make sure of the facts
>  5. Then I profusely apologized & openly congratulated him & the others

6. within weeks I omit the fact when making claims about what iOS can't do.


> Yet you deceitful unprepossessing Apple trolls construe that adult 
> discovery, proof & public congratulation, as "not accepting the facts"?????

See step 6. 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#136657

Marion <marion@facts.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Aug 2025 21:17:56 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote :
> 
> 
>>> This is exactly like you saying "FaceTime" when you mean video calling.
>> 
>> That's not what I said. You're deflecting. 
> 
> I addressed EVERY one of your issues in detail in the thread on the topic.

OK. Let's see:

>> He will of course deny they are useful, claim they have a direct equivalent
>> in android and will change the definition multiple times. 
>> 
>> So here's the list in no particular order. 
>> 
>> FaceID
>> Universal Clipboard
>> Backtap
>> Geofencing and shortcuts in general
>> Homekit integration
>> Centre stage
>> Find My - google's is nowhere near as useful being too new
>> Family account settings (great for managing subs for kids)
>> visual voicemail 
>> Facetime hand gestures
>> scan to pdf (and annotate)
>> 
>> Bonus one for ipadOS: Sidecar
>> 
>> Personally, I use most, but not all of the above and would miss them if I
>> didn't have them.
> 
> All the functionalities Chris listed are available on Android, whether
> natively, via OEM tools, or through third-party apps. 

Then it's not an Android functionality is it?

> The distinction lies
> in meaningless branding, not in the existence of the features themselves.
> 
>  Apple Feature             Android Equivalent(s)
>  --------------------------------------------------------
>  FaceID                    Face Unlock (Pixel, Samsung Intelligent Scan)

I accept the Pixel 9 has depth perception. Samsung is still 2D only so
insecure. 

>  Universal Clipboard       SwiftKey + Windows Cloud Clipboard, Gboard

Requires a third party account and so allowing a third party to see
everything you type and copy is deeply unsatisfactory. 

>                            Clipboard, Samsung Link to Windows
>  Backtap                   Quick Tap (Pixel), RegiStar in Good Lock
>                            (Samsung), Tap Tap (third party)

Good to see Pixel catching up. However, third party apps elsewhere aren't
going to work well. 

>  Geofencing and Shortcuts  Tasker, MacroDroid, Samsung Modes and Routines

This party tools and you've already shown that geofencing doesn't work. 

>  HomeKit Integration       Google Home, Samsung SmartThings, Home Assistant

Are they integrated into the OS or simply an app?

>  Centre Stage              Auto Framing in Google Meet, Instagram Body
>                            Frame, Samsung/Pixel tablet auto framing

App specific. Centre stage works with all apps not just Apple ones. It is
core to iOS. 

>  Find My                   Google Find My Device including Bluetooth
>                            tracker support for Pebblebee and Chipolo

Nothing matches Find My for utility and ubiquity. Pebblebee and Chipolo in
fact use the Apple Find My network. They aren't an alternative. 

>  Family Account Settings   Google Family Link
>  Visual Voicemail          Google Phone (carrier VVM), Google Voice,
>                            YouMail, HulloMail

Application specific. Doesn't work with traditional carriers. 

>  FaceTime Hand Gestures    Meet, Zoom, Snapchat, Instagram filters and
>                            reactions

Limited to app capability. Hand gestures are global in iOS/macOS. 

Claiming that instagram and snapchat are equivalent is funny. 

>  Scan to PDF and Annotate  Adobe Scan, Xodo, PDFelement, Google Drive Scan,
>                            OEM camera doc scan

All third party and from experience usually require an online service. 

>  Sidecar (iPadOS)          Duet Display, Splashtop, Spacedesk, Samsung
>                            Second Screen (Windows pairing)

Third party. 

So it seems that third parties attempt to fix many Android weaknesses while
introducing others when compared to the core functionality of iOS with no
third party deficiencies. 

Also good to see some of the Pixel hardware catching up, however the
battery performance doesn't win any prizes. Maybe the 10 will improve on
that?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#136666

On Thu, 21 Aug 2025 21:30:44 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote :


>> All the functionalities Chris listed are available on Android, whether
>> natively, via OEM tools, or through third-party apps. 
> 
> Then it's not an Android functionality is it?

Heh heh heh... 

You're desperate to prove me correct that there is only one thing on all of
iOS that isn't on Android, and that's the use of the privileged port 445.

The question is and was always what you can do on each platform without
rooting it. That was the only stricture. Most people don't root/jailbreak.

But other than rooting, everything else was fair game.

If you want to play the game of what's native, that's fine; but that's a
completely different question given the ecosystems are very different.

>> The distinction lies
>> in meaningless branding, not in the existence of the features themselves.
>> 
>>  Apple Feature             Android Equivalent(s)
>>  --------------------------------------------------------
>>  FaceID                    Face Unlock (Pixel, Samsung Intelligent Scan)
> 
> I accept the Pixel 9 has depth perception. 
> Samsung is still 2D only so insecure. 

Heh heh heh... 

If it's on any Android, it counts, just like if it's on any iPhone, it
counts. Same rules for both platforms should be equally applied to all.

It would take forever if we judged whose was better since most things on
Android are far more functional & most on iOS are far easier to use.

You don't seem to comprehend that they're two different ecosystems.

Although we all would likely agree that there are major players, where,
surprisingly, Google doesn't rank in the top 5 around the world (but Google
is number 4 in the USA by units sold - so it's complicated as you know).

Worldwide Samsung, Xiaomi, Oppo & Vivo are the top four, although in the
USA the ranking is Apple, Samsung, Motorola & Google as the top four.

So I'd initially focus on that set of Android phones to compare iPhones to.

>>  Universal Clipboard       SwiftKey + Windows Cloud Clipboard, Gboard
> 
> Requires a third party account and so allowing a third party to see
> everything you type and copy is deeply unsatisfactory. 

Heh heh heh ... 

Might I remind you that almost everything on iOS requires that account.

If you want to play the game of what doesn't require an account, that's
fine; but that's a completely different question given everything on iOS
requires an account (which has been proven many times in other threads).

>>                            Clipboard, Samsung Link to Windows
>>  Backtap                   Quick Tap (Pixel), RegiStar in Good Lock
>>                            (Samsung), Tap Tap (third party)
> 
> Good to see Pixel catching up. 
> However, third party apps elsewhere aren't going to work well. 

Heh heh heh... 

The whole point of Android is for 3rd-party apps to supplement the system.
You're gerrymandering what was a very simple set of rules to compare with.

The only constraint was jailbreaking/rooting was forbidden because most
people don't do that - but everything else is fair game in this thread.

>>  Geofencing and Shortcuts  Tasker, MacroDroid, Samsung Modes and Routines
> 
> This party tools and you've already shown that geofencing doesn't work. 

Geofencing works fine. What I show is only what can be done for free
and without accounts and without ads - but that's my personal restriction.

You really don't want to apply that rule to the iPhone, Chris, as if you
remove just the fact that the account is needed, nothing will work on iOS.


>>  HomeKit Integration       Google Home, Samsung SmartThings, Home Assistant
> 
> Are they integrated into the OS or simply an app?

It doesn't matter because the functionality is there, Chris.
You're focusing only on Apple's implementation of the functionality.

Google Home integrates with Android OS features like voice assistant and
routines but it's an app, while Samsung SmartThings has OS hooks as it
comes preloaded with Samsung devices, and Home Assistant is a bit different
from both of those - but the point is that the functionality exists.

This thread would never end if it was just which apps we like best.
 
>>  Centre Stage              Auto Framing in Google Meet, Instagram Body
>>                            Frame, Samsung/Pixel tablet auto framing
> 
> App specific. Centre stage works with all apps not just Apple ones. It is
> core to iOS. 

While Apple's Center Stage is integrated into iOS and works system-wide,
Android offers auto framing too, just through a different architecture.

Everything you say is proving my point for me, Chris. 
And that's good.

Because it means you'll soon be ready to learn why.


>>  Find My                   Google Find My Device including Bluetooth
>>                            tracker support for Pebblebee and Chipolo
> 
> Nothing matches Find My for utility and ubiquity. 

It isn't about which one you like best, Chris, and it never was about that.

While Apple's Find My is tightly integrated and benefits from ubiquity
across Apple devices, Google's Find My Device offers equivalent
functionality for Android users.

Both locate phones, tablets, etc.
Both have bluetooth tracker support.
Both use a crowdsourced location network.
Both have a map view + sound alerts.
Both have offline tracking.
etc.

The fact you're picking things that you know are on Android means you're
desperate to find something - but that's good as it proves my point.


> Pebblebee and Chipolo in
> fact use the Apple Find My network. They aren't an alternative. 

That used to be true, but now both Pebblebee and Chipolo support Google's
Find My Device network natively. So Android users get the same tracking
functionality — just through a different ecosystem.

Everything you claim simply nails my point home, Chris.
Soon you may be ready to learn why.
	
> 
>>  Family Account Settings   Google Family Link
>>  Visual Voicemail          Google Phone (carrier VVM), Google Voice,
>>                            YouMail, HulloMail
> 
> Application specific. Doesn't work with traditional carriers. 

While Apple has tighter OS-level integration, Google Family Link offers
equivalent core parental controls for Android users. It even adds unique
features like instant device locking and app approval revocation.

Both platforms have visual voicemail inboxes, voicemail transcription and
carrier support while Android has extensive third-party app support but
this isn't about which one is better. While iOS integrates it into the
Phone app, Android matches the functionality and even adds transcription
and cloud sync via apps like YouMail and Google Voice.

But this isn't about which is better.
It's about what major functionality does iOS have that Android doesn't.

So far nobody has found anything other than the use of port 445 on iOS that
isn't already on Android. Once you figure out that is the answer, then, and
only then, will you be ready to learn why.

>>  FaceTime Hand Gestures    Meet, Zoom, Snapchat, Instagram filters and
>>                            reactions
> 
> Limited to app capability. Hand gestures are global in iOS/macOS. 

We all know Apple's gestures are baked into the OS, but Android users still
get expressive reactions and filters in apps like Meet, Zoom, and Snapchat.
The experience is app-driven, but the functionality of visual reactions
triggered during video calls is absolutely there on Android.

Notice how you end up proving my point, which I knew would happen, Chris.
I'm trying to teach you something you are resistant to learning, Chris.

> Claiming that instagram and snapchat are equivalent is funny. 

It's not about being one-to-one identical, Chris. It's about functional
parity. Snapchat and Instagram offer real-time AR effects, reactions, and
filters that are often far more dynamic than Apple's preset gestures. 

For users who care about visual expression, Android has it also.

>>  Scan to PDF and Annotate  Adobe Scan, Xodo, PDFelement, Google Drive Scan,
>>                            OEM camera doc scan
> 
> All third party and from experience usually require an online service. 

Most Android scanning apps work offline, including Adobe Scan and OEM
camera apps. The fact that they're third-party doesn't limit functionality.

In fact, those Android tools are far more powerful tools than Apple's
built-in options, as they have bulk OCR and advanced annotation.


>>  Sidecar (iPadOS)          Duet Display, Splashtop, Spacedesk, Samsung
>>                            Second Screen (Windows pairing)
> 
> Third party. 

Third party doesn't mean less capable. Android Duet Display and Spacedesk
have flexibility and support for Windows with full touchscreen interaction.

These are key things your beloved Sidecar doesn't even support. 
You hate that Android functionality is there, and often more powerful.

Sidecar is great if you're locked into Apple's ecosystem. But Android users
get the same second-screen experience - and more - through apps that work
across platforms and offer wired + wireless options.

It's not about which one you like, Chris.

It's about the fact there is nothing but a single port that iOS can do that
Android doesn't already do - and once you realize that - only then can you
begin to understand Apple's strategy.

> So it seems that third parties attempt to fix many Android weaknesses while
> introducing others when compared to the core functionality of iOS with no
> third party deficiencies.

I wonder if you realize you've proved my point in spades for me, Chris?

The goal was to compare whether iOS offers any functionality that Android
lacks - not whether it's built-in or third-party. And across the board,
Android delivers the same core features, usually with more flexibility and
customization. Whether it's auto framing, Find My, visual voicemail, or
second screen support, Android users have access to all of it - no rooting,
no jailbreaking - but anything else was always said to be acceptable.

If you remove the need for accounts, almost everything on iOS breaks, as
you can't even load an app or run your beloved Apple native tools, Chris.

> Also good to see some of the Pixel hardware catching up, however the
> battery performance doesn't win any prizes. Maybe the 10 will improve on
> that?

This is a separate topic, where T-Mobile is offering me a free Pixel 10 so
I just might look into it, although I hate phones missing key hardware.

But looking only at the battery, the Pixel 10 Pro XL is 5,200 mAh, but
that's only 200mAh more than my free 2021 Samsung Galaxy A32-5G phone.

Back to the main topic, if your only critique left is that Android uses
third-party apps to achieve the same functionality, then that means there
is nothing on iOS that isn't already on Android - which means you're ready
to start to begin to understand why this is the case.

Remember, the whole point was that I knew the answer but you do not.
I'm trying to teach you why, but first you have to understand iOS.

You need to try harder to find a key functionality on iOS that isn't on
Android, as you are resistant to learning what Apple's strategy really is.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#136679

Marion <marion@facts.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Aug 2025 21:30:44 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote :
> 
> 
>>> All the functionalities Chris listed are available on Android, whether
>>> natively, via OEM tools, or through third-party apps. 
>> 
>> Then it's not an Android functionality is it?
> 
> Heh heh heh... 
> 
> You're desperate to prove me correct that there is only one thing on all of
> iOS that isn't on Android, and that's the use of the privileged port 445.

It would be funny if it wasn't so chronically sad. 

If you put even an iota of the effort you do in criticising ios to looking
at your android claims you'd see how truly flimsy they were. 

But you won't, as you're not interested in the truth. Remember you ignore
all the facts about batteries now we have authoritative source data. It's
too easy to correct your lies now. 

You're now resorting to spinning your opinions as facts by some
self-bestowed authority no-one believes. 

> 
> The question is and was always what you can do on each platform without
> rooting it. That was the only stricture. 

Only in your head. 

Your hypocrisy around third party accounts is a transparent attempt to prop
up android phones while eroding your precious privacy and security. 

> 
> But other than rooting, everything else was fair game.
> 
> If you want to play the game of what's native, that's fine; but that's a
> completely different question given the ecosystems are very different.

It's what really matters. 

>>> The distinction lies
>>> in meaningless branding, not in the existence of the features themselves.
>>> 
>>> Apple Feature             Android Equivalent(s)
>>> --------------------------------------------------------
>>> FaceID                    Face Unlock (Pixel, Samsung Intelligent Scan)
>> 
>> I accept the Pixel 9 has depth perception. 
>> Samsung is still 2D only so insecure. 
> 
> Heh heh heh... 
> 
> If it's on any Android, it counts, just like if it's on any iPhone, it
> counts. Same rules for both platforms should be equally applied to all.
> 
> It would take forever if we judged whose was better since most things on
> Android are far more functional & most on iOS are far easier to use.
> 
> You don't seem to comprehend that they're two different ecosystems.
> 
> Although we all would likely agree that there are major players, where,
> surprisingly, Google doesn't rank in the top 5 around the world (but Google
> is number 4 in the USA by units sold - so it's complicated as you know).
> 
> Worldwide Samsung, Xiaomi, Oppo & Vivo are the top four, although in the
> USA the ranking is Apple, Samsung, Motorola & Google as the top four.
> 
> So I'd initially focus on that set of Android phones to compare iPhones to.
> 
>>> Universal Clipboard       SwiftKey + Windows Cloud Clipboard, Gboard
>> 
>> Requires a third party account and so allowing a third party to see
>> everything you type and copy is deeply unsatisfactory. 
> 
> Heh heh heh ... 
> 
> Might I remind you that almost everything on iOS requires that account.

It only requires a *single* account which you are fully aware of when
buying into the product. 

With android you are the product and signing up to dozens of accounts just
makes that even worse. 

> If you want to play the game of what doesn't require an account, that's
> fine

It was my stipulation. So now find android solutions to core ios
functionality. 

> but that's a completely different question given everything on iOS
> requires an account (which has been proven many times in other threads).

It hasn't, but that's a different story. 
 
>> Pebblebee and Chipolo in
>> fact use the Apple Find My network. They aren't an alternative. 
> 
> That used to be true, but now both Pebblebee and Chipolo support Google's
> Find My Device network natively. 

The point is they aren't service providers, they are service users. 

>>> Visual Voicemail          Google Phone (carrier VVM), Google Voice,
>>> YouMail, HulloMail
>> 
>> Application specific. Doesn't work with traditional carriers. 
> 
> While Apple has tighter OS-level integration, Google Family Link offers
> equivalent core parental controls for Android users. It even adds unique
> features like instant device locking and app approval revocation.
> 
> Both platforms have visual voicemail inboxes, voicemail transcription and
> carrier support while Android has extensive third-party app support but
> this isn't about which one is better. While iOS integrates it into the
> Phone app, Android matches the functionality and even adds transcription
> and cloud sync via apps like YouMail and Google Voice.

Android cannot do it for traditional phone service provided via the SIM.
That's the key difference. 

I can get it for the phone number I've used for 20 years. 

You have to use a separate service which often doesn't exist outside the
US. Google voice, for example, is a very different product outside the US
and isn't available for most countries. 

> But this isn't about which is better.
> It's about what major functionality does iOS have that Android doesn't.

Correct. And android doesn't. 

> In fact, those Android tools are far more powerful tools than Apple's
> built-in options, as they have bulk OCR and advanced annotation.

OCR is built into iOS and runs automatically so you can search for text
found in anything including photos. Again a non-android functionality. I'll
need to add that to the list. Thanks. 

> If you remove the need for accounts, almost everything on iOS breaks, as
> you can't even load an app or run your beloved Apple native tools, Chris.

That's simply a lie you like to perpetuate. 

>> Also good to see some of the Pixel hardware catching up, however the
>> battery performance doesn't win any prizes. Maybe the 10 will improve on
>> that?
> 
> This is a separate topic, where T-Mobile is offering me a free Pixel 10 so
> I just might look into it, although I hate phones missing key hardware.
> 
> But looking only at the battery, the Pixel 10 Pro XL is 5,200 mAh, but
> that's only 200mAh more than my free 2021 Samsung Galaxy A32-5G phone.

As we've agreed before capacity is only part of the equation. If you look
at all phones with 5000 +/- 200 mAh (222 models) the endurance difference
is 44 hours!

Plus we all know the Samsung Galaxy A series are crappy phones as they are
rated at class "C" or "B" and their endurance is amongst the worst within
the class. 

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#136681

On Sat, 23 Aug 2025 11:56:01 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote :


>> You're desperate to prove me correct that there is only one thing on all of
>> iOS that isn't on Android, and that's the use of the privileged port 445.
> 
> It would be funny if it wasn't so chronically sad. 
> 
> If you put even an iota of the effort you do in criticising ios to looking
> at your android claims you'd see how truly flimsy they were. 

It's no longer shocking how much Apple trolls condemn anyone who spends
energy understanding how the iPhone works, Chris. 

> But you won't, as you're not interested in the truth. Remember you ignore
> all the facts about batteries now we have authoritative source data. It's
> too easy to correct your lies now. 

It's no longer shocking how much you *hate* how puny iPhone batteries are.

> You're now resorting to spinning your opinions as facts by some
> self-bestowed authority no-one believes. 

It's not shocking that you feel the EU tests are wrong only in the case of
your beloved iPhone, Chris - where Apple couldn't earn an A in efficiency.

>> The question is and was always what you can do on each platform without
>> rooting it. That was the only stricture. 
> 
> Only in your head. 

WTF? The question was stated clearly. You simply *hate* the question.
More to the point, you *hate* the answer to the question, Chris.

You think I don't know that?

> Your hypocrisy around third party accounts is a transparent attempt to prop
> up android phones while eroding your precious privacy and security. 


It's no longer shocking that you have to add a hundred conditions so that
your 11-most-beloved iPhone apps stand any chance at all against Android.

>> But other than rooting, everything else was fair game.
>> 
>> If you want to play the game of what's native, that's fine; but that's a
>> completely different question given the ecosystems are very different.
> 
> It's what really matters. 

You need to add a hundred mutually incompatible conditions to make your
11-most-beloved iPhone apps stand any chance at all against Android, Chris.

You don't think I don't know that nothing works on iOS without an account?
If I had added that one condition, the iPhone would lose against a brick.

The conditions were fair. No rooting/jailbreaking. That's it.
That's fair.

>> Might I remind you that almost everything on iOS requires that account.
> 
> It only requires a *single* account which you are fully aware of when
> buying into the product. 

Actually that's wrong, which again shows how little you know about iOS.

> With android you are the product and signing up to dozens of accounts just
> makes that even worse. 

That utter fabricated absurd bullshit shows how *desperate* you Apple
trolls are to defend Apple's crapware to the death, no matter what.

Tell me where these "dozens of accounts" are on my Android phone, Chris.
C'mon. Tell me. 

>> If you want to play the game of what doesn't require an account, that's
>> fine
> 
> It was my stipulation. 

OK. Fair game. You and I cannot use ANY account in any app on the phone.
HINT: I already have that. So my phone doesn't change in functionality.

How about yours, Chris?

> So now find android solutions to core ios functionality. 

Heh heh heh...  you can't install a single app on your iPhone now.
Nor can you log into a single app (such as your beloved Messages app).

Without accounts, your iPhone loses in functionality against a brick.
My phone already doesn't have any accounts on it, Chris.

Are you seriously that ignorant of how an iPhone works vs Android?

>> but that's a completely different question given everything on iOS
>> requires an account (which has been proven many times in other threads).
> 
> It hasn't, but that's a different story. 

How are you gonna use Messages or Facetime, Chris, without an account?
How are you gonna download any software, Chris, without an account?

Are you that ignorant about how an iPhone works compared to Android?
 
>>> Pebblebee and Chipolo in
>>> fact use the Apple Find My network. They aren't an alternative. 
>> 
>> That used to be true, but now both Pebblebee and Chipolo support Google's
>> Find My Device network natively. 
> 
> The point is they aren't service providers, they are service users. 

You are so *desperate* to prove that your religious God isn't a dumb brick
that the only way you can compare to Android functionality is to add a
hundred mutually exclusive app-by-app conditions, which is absurd.

You proved my point for me, Chris.

There's almost nothing iOS can do that Android doesn't already do, Chris.
Now can we get to the rather important ADULT part about teaching you why?

>> While iOS integrates it into the
>> Phone app, Android matches the functionality and even adds transcription
>> and cloud sync via apps like YouMail and Google Voice.
> 
> Android cannot do it for traditional phone service provided via the SIM.
> That's the key difference. 

Again and again you have to foist a hundred mutually exclusive app-specific
conditions because you're desperate to defend Apple's flaws to the death.

> I can get it for the phone number I've used for 20 years. 

Every statement from you shows your utter desperation to craft a hundred
mutually exclusive app-by-app specific conditions just because you don't
want to understand why the iPhone lacks the functionality of Android.

> You have to use a separate service which often doesn't exist outside the
> US. Google voice, for example, is a very different product outside the US
> and isn't available for most countries. 

I wonder if you realize your *desperation* shows very clearly that you'll
craft a hundred mutually-exclusive conditions on an app-by-app basis.

> 
>> But this isn't about which is better.
>> It's about what major functionality does iOS have that Android doesn't.
> 
> Correct. And android doesn't. 

You haven't listed a single functionality that isn't already on Android.
You think I didn't know that was going to happen, Chris?

Remember, I'm nothing like you Apple trolls.
I understand Apple's strategy.

>> In fact, those Android tools are far more powerful tools than Apple's
>> built-in options, as they have bulk OCR and advanced annotation.
> 
> OCR is built into iOS and runs automatically so you can search for text
> found in anything including photos. Again a non-android functionality. I'll
> need to add that to the list. Thanks. 

The fact you have to add specific app-by-app conditions, which are mutually
exclusive, proves your *desperation* to avoid accepting the facts, Chris.

Once you accept the facts, only then can I begin to teach you the strategy.

>> If you remove the need for accounts, almost everything on iOS breaks, as
>> you can't even load an app or run your beloved Apple native tools, Chris.
> 
> That's simply a lie you like to perpetuate. 

I've seen what happens when you don't log into your Apple accounts, Chris.
Have you?

Never forget. I'm absolutely nothing like you ignorant Apple trolls, Chris.
I know what happens when you don't create an Apple account or log into one.

You do not have any clue what happens if you don't log into Apple accounts.

>> But looking only at the battery, the Pixel 10 Pro XL is 5,200 mAh, but
>> that's only 200mAh more than my free 2021 Samsung Galaxy A32-5G phone.
> 
> As we've agreed before capacity is only part of the equation. If you look
> at all phones with 5000 +/- 200 mAh (222 models) the endurance difference
> is 44 hours!
> 
> Plus we all know the Samsung Galaxy A series are crappy phones as they are
> rated at class "C" or "B" and their endurance is amongst the worst within
> the class.

Heh heh heh... again and again, you show how *desperate* you are to attack
my free phone because you *hate* it has more functionality than any iPhone.

I'll accept your attack against my <$200 phone as further proof that you
*hate* that even a free Android phone bests the iPhone in functionality.

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#136680

On 8/20/2025 9:57 AM, Marion wrote:
> The astoundingly huge delta between Apple trolls and me is mainly...
> a. I'm well educated (none of the Apple trolls can earn even a degree)
> b. I'm not a herd animal (all of the Apple trolls are religious zealots)

I know quite a few iPhone owners with Masters and PhD degrees. That 
seems to mirror the population.

 From a somewwhat dated Forbes article:

"Highest level of education attained? iPhone people are more educated: 
they over-weight +27% for graduate/PhD education and under-weight -33% 
for high school education. Android people show the same pattern to a 
much smaller degree: +8% for graduate/PhD, -12% for high school."


Another fact, iPhone users hold onto their phone much longer than for 
Android. For 2 years+ 61% for iPhone versus 43% Android.

https://www.techopedia.com/iphone-users-vs-android-users

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#136682

On Sat, 23 Aug 2025 16:22:21 -0700, Tom Elam wrote :


>> The astoundingly huge delta between Apple trolls and me is mainly...
>> a. I'm well educated (none of the Apple trolls can earn even a degree)
>> b. I'm not a herd animal (all of the Apple trolls are religious zealots)
> 
> I know quite a few iPhone owners with Masters and PhD degrees. That 
> seems to mirror the population.

How many of them understand the answer to the question of why the iPhone
pales in functionality compared to that of even a $45 Android phone?

>  From a somewwhat dated Forbes article:
> 
> "Highest level of education attained? iPhone people are more educated: 
> they over-weight +27% for graduate/PhD education and under-weight -33% 
> for high school education. Android people show the same pattern to a 
> much smaller degree: +8% for graduate/PhD, -12% for high school."
> 
> Another fact, iPhone users hold onto their phone much longer than for 
> Android. For 2 years+ 61% for iPhone versus 43% Android.
> 
> https://www.techopedia.com/iphone-users-vs-android-users

Let's run a survey of how long people have held onto their phones here.
I'll start.

I received 3 free Android phones in April of 2021 and I still have them.
I bought one iPhone 12 mini at the same time - long since traded in.
 <https://i.postimg.cc/YC1B906F/tmopromo01.jpg> A32-5G & iPhone 12 contract

How about everyone else? 
How about you, badgolferman? And Chris? And Ant. How about everyone else?

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#136702

On 8/23/25 19:22, Tom Elam wrote:
> On 8/20/2025 9:57 AM, Marion wrote:
>> The astoundingly huge delta between Apple trolls and me is mainly...
>> a. I'm well educated (none of the Apple trolls can earn even a degree)
>> b. I'm not a herd animal (all of the Apple trolls are religious zealots)
> 
> I know quite a few iPhone owners with Masters and PhD degrees. That 
> seems to mirror the population.
> 
>  From a somewwhat dated Forbes article:
> 
> "Highest level of education attained? iPhone people are more educated: 
> they over-weight +27% for graduate/PhD education and under-weight -33% 
> for high school education. Android people show the same pattern to a 
> much smaller degree: +8% for graduate/PhD, -12% for high school."

I'd posted a similar observation last week, but income based< which we 
know generally correlates to academic achievement:

<https://www.designveloper.com/blog/android-vs-iphone-users/>

"On average, iPhone users have a higher income compared to Android 
users....an average salary of USD 53,251, whereas Android users earn a 
lower compensation of USD 37,040."

$53K/$37K = a +43.8% higher average income for iPhone customers.



> Another fact, iPhone users hold onto their phone much longer than for 
> Android. For 2 years+ 61% for iPhone versus 43% Android.
> 
> https://www.techopedia.com/iphone-users-vs-android-users
Because the greater overall wealth of iPhone customers alone would 
suggest they have a greater ability for a higher turnover rate, this 
implies some other, more significant factor is in play.  There's a lot 
of cheap Androids, so the longer iPhone life could be due to Apple's 
market decision to not sell cheap low build quality phones which are 
more prone to breaking/dying more quickly.


-hh

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#136756

On Sun, 24 Aug 2025 17:14:04 -0400, -hh wrote :


> Because the greater overall wealth of iPhone customers alone would 
> suggest they have a greater ability for a higher turnover rate, this 
> implies some other, more significant factor is in play.  There's a lot 
> of cheap Androids, so the longer iPhone life could be due to Apple's 
> market decision to not sell cheap low build quality phones which are 
> more prone to breaking/dying more quickly.

Sometimes you make sense.
Sometimes you make no sense.

Your argument is absurd.

First off, you're cherry picking since the vast majority of phones out
there are NOT iPhones, so you're ignoring the vast majority of owners.

You're literally cherry picking only the wealthy owners, and then, you
triumphantly declare that they're rich & intelligent in the same breath.

Then you compare that $1000 iPhone to a $45 Android and declare that not
only are the people who pay $1000 for something that can't even do what the
$45 Android can do, but that it lasts longer (you claim) by virtue only of
the fact that it costs $1000 while any old Android that costs $45 (you
claim) doesn't last longer - even as the build quality is vastly greater.

WTF?
Have you no argument at all that you have to make such absurd claims?

You're desperate to claim a $1000 iPhone has more functionality than a $45
Android when you can't even list any functionality that it supposedly has.

Why would someone pay $1000 for an iPhone that can't do what any $45
Android can? That's NOT an intelligent person's kind of decision.

What you're really saying is people who pay $100 for iPhones are stupid
since they could have paid $45 for an Android & gotten more functionality.

People who buy a Rolex aren't smarter than people who buy a Timex you know.

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#136796

On 8/24/25 21:26, Marion wrote:
> On Sun, 24 Aug 2025 17:14:04 -0400, -hh wrote :
>> Because the greater overall wealth of iPhone customers alone would
>> suggest they have a greater ability for a higher turnover rate, this
>> implies some other, more significant factor is in play.  There's a lot
>> of cheap Androids, so the longer iPhone life could be due to Apple's
>> market decision to not sell cheap low build quality phones which are
>> more prone to breaking/dying more quickly.
> 
> Sometimes you make sense.
> Sometimes you make no sense.
> 
> Your argument is absurd.

Nope, far from it.  Sorry that it went over your head.


> First off, you're cherry picking since the vast majority of phones out
> there are NOT iPhones, so you're ignoring the vast majority of owners.

Of course I am, because I'm looking at just the domestic market, which 
is where these replacement & income metrics were from.  That there's a 
billion 3rd world customers too just isn't relevant.


> You're literally cherry picking only the wealthy owners, and then, you
> triumphantly declare that they're rich & intelligent in the same breath.

No, the logic is A > B, and B > C, therefore A > C.  The A > B part was 
noting that smartphone demographic research data shows that the two 
customer populations aren't the same, with those who choose Apple 
correlating to significantly higher incomes.  The B > C part refers to 
non-smartphone studies which show that higher incomes are correlated to 
having higher educational achievement.  Both studies are stochastic, not 
deterministic, of course.
> Then you compare that $1000 iPhone to a $45 Android ... 
Your hyperbola attempts aside, I have seen a study which found that the 
average iPhone valuation is ~$400, and Android just under $300.

Since the Apple price is less than their cheapest phone, I suspect that 
they may be pro-rating the products based on average age, which since 
iPhones are replaced less frequently could be effectively comparing the 
residual value of a ~2.5 year old iPhone to a ~1.5 year old Android..?


> and declare that not
> only are the people who pay $1000 for something that can't even do what the
> $45 Android can do, but that it lasts longer (you claim) by virtue only of
> the fact that it costs $1000 while any old Android that costs $45 (you
> claim) doesn't last longer - even as the build quality is vastly greater.

Incorrect:  what I posited was that perhaps *a* reason why iPhone owners 
keep them for long is because Apple build quality may be higher, for the 
simple reason that they choose to not sell cheap junk phones.  We know 
that this isn't the case for Android.

> WTF?
> Have you no argument at all that you have to make such absurd claims?

They're not absurd claims:  it is merely stating known facts.
And I've been deliberate to note what are *possible* reasons.

> You're desperate to claim a $1000 iPhone has more functionality than a $45
> Android when you can't even list any functionality that it supposedly has.

No, I've not stated any position about 'functionality'.


> Why would someone pay $1000 for an iPhone that can't do what any $45
> Android can? That's NOT an intelligent person's kind of decision.

Why do rich people pay $8,000 for a Hermes purse?  Does a Hermes have 
10x the 'functionality' of an $800 purse?  /s
> What you're really saying is people who pay $100 for iPhones are stupid
> since they could have paid $45 for an Android & gotten more functionality.

Just as I'd noted to Joel, you also need Sam Vime's theory of boots.


> People who buy a Rolex aren't smarter than people who buy a Timex you know.
Depends on how one defines "smarter":  on an income basis comparison, 
the Rolex buyers are certainly on average more affluent.  We know that 
higher income correlates to higher educational achievement.  We also 
know that educational achievement similarly correlates to higher IQ.

What I was noting was that the higher income carries the connotation of 
a greater ability for them to change [here, timepieces] more frequently 
with lower consequences...but for this analogy to iPhones, they actually 
don't actually change more frequently, but do so less frequently:  why?

The inference is that there's some aspect of higher product quality 
which decreases their motivation for its rate of replacement being as 
high as it is for Androids.


-hh

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#136802

On 2025-08-25 18:41:01 +0000, -hh said:

> On 8/24/25 21:26, Marion wrote:
>> On Sun, 24 Aug 2025 17:14:04 -0400, -hh wrote :
>>> Because the greater overall wealth of iPhone customers alone would
>>> suggest they have a greater ability for a higher turnover rate, this
>>> implies some other, more significant factor is in play.  There's a lot
>>> of cheap Androids, so the longer iPhone life could be due to Apple's
>>> market decision to not sell cheap low build quality phones which are
>>> more prone to breaking/dying more quickly.
>> 
>> Sometimes you make sense.
>> Sometimes you make no sense.
>> 
>> Your argument is absurd.
> 
> Nope, far from it.  Sorry that it went over your head.
> 
> 
>> First off, you're cherry picking since the vast majority of phones out
>> there are NOT iPhones, so you're ignoring the vast majority of owners.
> 
> Of course I am, because I'm looking at just the domestic market, which 
> is where these replacement & income metrics were from.  That there's a 
> billion 3rd world customers too just isn't relevant.

Comparing "iPhone" to "Android" in terms of sales and ownership is 
rather pointless anyway because there is only one iPhone maker and 
numerous Android makers (almost 1300 different phone brands!). Plus 
there are a ton of el cheapo Android phones, many of which are simply 
utter crap using old tech to achieve lower pricing.

If you compare actual makers, Apple has around 27.5% of the global 
market, while their closest rival Samsung has 21.5% ... but even that 
is misleading because Samsung do make el cheapo models (and foldable 
models) while Apple only makes high-mid to higher end models.

You may as well compare Toyota to Ferrari ... completely different 
markets and buyers.

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#136817

On Tue, 26 Aug 2025 10:00:08 +1200, Your Name wrote :


>>>> Because the greater overall wealth of iPhone customers alone would
>>>> suggest they have a greater ability for a higher turnover rate, this
>>>> implies some other, more significant factor is in play.  There's a lot
>>>> of cheap Androids, so the longer iPhone life could be due to Apple's
>>>> market decision to not sell cheap low build quality phones which are
>>>> more prone to breaking/dying more quickly.
>>> 
>>> Sometimes you make sense.
>>> Sometimes you make no sense.
>>> 
>>> Your argument is absurd.
>> 
>> Nope, far from it.  Sorry that it went over your head.
>> 
>>> First off, you're cherry picking since the vast majority of phones out
>>> there are NOT iPhones, so you're ignoring the vast majority of owners.
>> 
>> Of course I am, because I'm looking at just the domestic market, which 
>> is where these replacement & income metrics were from.  That there's a 
>> billion 3rd world customers too just isn't relevant.
> 
> Comparing "iPhone" to "Android" in terms of sales and ownership is 
> rather pointless anyway because there is only one iPhone maker and 
> numerous Android makers (almost 1300 different phone brands!). Plus 
> there are a ton of el cheapo Android phones, many of which are simply 
> utter crap using old tech to achieve lower pricing.
> 
> If you compare actual makers, Apple has around 27.5% of the global 
> market, while their closest rival Samsung has 21.5% ... but even that 
> is misleading because Samsung do make el cheapo models (and foldable 
> models) while Apple only makes high-mid to higher end models.
> 
> You may as well compare Toyota to Ferrari ... completely different 
> markets and buyers.

I agree with badgolferman, -hh & Your Name that people don't buy an iPhone
in general based on a feeling of superior functionality over Android.v 

If they did, they would be deluded.

A phone, a watch, a car, a loaf of bread... all are simple commodities.
Marketing's job is to turn that commodity into a specialty item.

Virginia Slims are cigarettes for liberated women.
Everyone knows that.

Once it's turned into a specialty item, you no longer judge it the same.
It's judged on whatever marketing can convince you is how to judge it.

Never let me ever say that Apple marketing isn't the best at that task!
Hence, I fully agree that people buy iPhones NOT for their functionality.

They buy iPhones for whatever outcome Marketing has convinced them of.
One of those outcomes, clearly, according to -hh, is "status/prestige".

Fine. I get that. They "feel" that by owning an iPhone, they're important.
Much like MAGA people do by owning a Trump Bible or a Trump MAGA shirt.

I get it. I don't disagree.
What I'd like though, is for people here to be able to understand that.

That's all.
Understand that nobody buys an iPhone over Android for functionality.

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#136838

Your Name <YourName@YourISP.com> wrote:
> On 2025-08-25 18:41:01 +0000, -hh said:
> 
>> On 8/24/25 21:26, Marion wrote:
>>> On Sun, 24 Aug 2025 17:14:04 -0400, -hh wrote :
>>>> Because the greater overall wealth of iPhone customers alone would
>>>> suggest they have a greater ability for a higher turnover rate, this
>>>> implies some other, more significant factor is in play.  There's a lot
>>>> of cheap Androids, so the longer iPhone life could be due to Apple's
>>>> market decision to not sell cheap low build quality phones which are
>>>> more prone to breaking/dying more quickly.
>>> 
>>> Sometimes you make sense.
>>> Sometimes you make no sense.
>>> 
>>> Your argument is absurd.
>> 
>> Nope, far from it.  Sorry that it went over your head.
>> 
>> 
>>> First off, you're cherry picking since the vast majority of phones out
>>> there are NOT iPhones, so you're ignoring the vast majority of owners.
>> 
>> Of course I am, because I'm looking at just the domestic market, which 
>> is where these replacement & income metrics were from.  That there's a 
>> billion 3rd world customers too just isn't relevant.
> 
> Comparing "iPhone" to "Android" in terms of sales and ownership is 
> rather pointless anyway because there is only one iPhone maker and 
> numerous Android makers (almost 1300 different phone brands!). 

Agreed. Doesn't stop Arlen claiming it's a monolith and only the good bits
count, tho . Crap android phones don't exist. 

Plus 
> there are a ton of el cheapo Android phones, many of which are simply 
> utter crap using old tech to achieve lower pricing.
> 
> If you compare actual makers, Apple has around 27.5% of the global 
> market, while their closest rival Samsung has 21.5% ... but even that 
> is misleading because Samsung do make el cheapo models (and foldable 
> models) while Apple only makes high-mid to higher end models.
>
> You may as well compare Toyota to Ferrari ... completely different 
> markets and buyers.

Not sure I agree with that. Top end androids definitely target the same
market as Apple. 

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#136878

On Tue, 26 Aug 2025 16:26:49 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote :


>> Comparing "iPhone" to "Android" in terms of sales and ownership is 
>> rather pointless anyway because there is only one iPhone maker and 
>> numerous Android makers (almost 1300 different phone brands!). 
> 
> Agreed. Doesn't stop Arlen claiming it's a monolith and only the good bits
> count, tho . Crap android phones don't exist. 

Chris,

You don't even know what a "monolith" is, so stop it with that garbage.
Up until iOS 16's use of RSRs, Apple shipped iOS updates as a monolith.

It's only with iOS 16 RSRs that Apple joined the modern world of patches.
The fact you don't know this proves my point you know nothing about iOS.

>> Plus 
>> there are a ton of el cheapo Android phones, many of which are simply 
>> utter crap using old tech to achieve lower pricing.

Nobody doubts there is much more choice in the Android ecosystem.
Yet, my $30 phone has more functionality than any iPhone ever sold.

If an Apple moron says it didn't cost me $30, let them show us where they
saw more money coming out of my wallet since the reason they say that is
they were told they are stupid their whole lives and they are.

Tremendously low-IQ people like all the Apple trolls are can't fathom that
the phone really only cost about $30 (which was simply the sales tax).

There are no other charges (whether or not I got the phone - my bill is the
same after the phone as it was before the phone - as the phone was free).

The only thing I had to pay for was the sales tax on the imputed value.
If they claim there is a "hidden charge" that only I pay, then that claim
deserves them backing up where I pay a charge that nobody else is paying.

But they can't.
This is how I know that their IQ is so incredibly low as to be shocking.

>> If you compare actual makers, Apple has around 27.5% of the global 
>> market, while their closest rival Samsung has 21.5% ... but even that 
>> is misleading because Samsung do make el cheapo models (and foldable 
>> models) while Apple only makes high-mid to higher end models.
>>
>> You may as well compare Toyota to Ferrari ... completely different 
>> markets and buyers.
> 
> Not sure I agree with that. Top end androids definitely target the same
> market as Apple.

I will agree with anyone, no matter who they are or what they've said in
the past, if theymake a logically defensible sensible statement such as
that which Chris just did.

While every Android is more functional than any iPhone ever sold, Android
OEMs make a range of choices, many of which copy the iPhone model.

Those copycat Android-iPhones are typically unusually high priced for
Android devices, and they typically lack even the most basic industry
standard hardware, just like the iPhone does.

What they have over iOS is what even a $30 Android has over iOS, which is
the functionality on Android is vastly superior to iOS (with one exception
- which is the use of port 445 - which is the one thing iOS does that
Android can't do).

It's interesting that the critically revealing functionality crossover
point between iOS and Android happens at one, and from there, even a $30
Android has vastly more functionality than any iPhone ever sold. 

When you understand that, then we can begin to teach you why it is so.

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#136906

Marion <marion@facts.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 26 Aug 2025 16:26:49 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote :
> 
> 
>>> Comparing "iPhone" to "Android" in terms of sales and ownership is 
>>> rather pointless anyway because there is only one iPhone maker and 
>>> numerous Android makers (almost 1300 different phone brands!). 
>> 
>> Agreed. Doesn't stop Arlen claiming it's a monolith and only the good bits
>> count, tho . Crap android phones don't exist. 
> 
> Chris,
> 
> You don't even know what a "monolith" is, so stop it with that garbage.
> Up until iOS 16's use of RSRs, Apple shipped iOS updates as a monolith.

Clearly your grasp of English is lacking...

> It's only with iOS 16 RSRs that Apple joined the modern world of patches.
> The fact you don't know this proves my point you know nothing about iOS.

... just like your grasp of iOS. 

> 
>>> Plus 
>>> there are a ton of el cheapo Android phones, many of which are simply 
>>> utter crap using old tech to achieve lower pricing.
> 
> Nobody doubts there is much more choice in the Android ecosystem.
> Yet, my $30 phone has more functionality than any iPhone ever sold.
> 
> If an Apple moron says it didn't cost me $30, let them show us where they
> saw more money coming out of my wallet since the reason they say that is
> they were told they are stupid their whole lives and they are.

You only got that (one-off) deal because you had a contract with the
provider. No-one could have got that deal walking into a shop. How much do
you pay for your contract? Currently, I pay £7 pm. 

You like to compare it to $1000 (sic) iphones when you conveniently omit
that you also got a special deal for your iphones. 

It's also been proven that A-range Galaxy models are "crap" based on your
own definition. 

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#136923

On Wed, 27 Aug 2025 16:43:17 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote :


>> If an Apple moron says it didn't cost me $30, let them show us where they
>> saw more money coming out of my wallet since the reason they say that is
>> they were told they are stupid their whole lives and they are.
> 
> You only got that (one-off) deal because you had a contract with the
> provider. No-one could have got that deal walking into a shop. How much do
> you pay for your contract? Currently, I pay Ł7 pm. 

What's sad is I can tell Apple trolls something a thousand times yet it
never once sinks into your brain - which is how I know you have a low IQ.
 <https://i.postimg.cc/YC1B906F/tmopromo01.jpg> A32-5G & iPhone 12 contract
 <https://i.postimg.cc/Xq5SpS4D/tmopromo02.jpg> $15/mo iPhone,$0/mo Android 
 <https://i.postimg.cc/nhpbcP50/tmopromo04.jpg> $100 for 6 lines + $16 fees

You couldn't pass a single college exam, Chris, missing the same fact just
once, let alone the thousand times I've posted those exact same images.

I own six SIM carded devices, with the bill being $100/month + fees of
about $20 nowadays (it used to be about $16 in those fees in April 2021).

Note the Apple trolls swear there is a hidden cost that only I pay for
getting those free phones even though every single person on postpaid
T-Mobile USA at that time was offered the exact same plan.

Nobody's bill changed by a cent (other than the sales tax of $30 for
California) whether or not they took advantage of T-Mobile's offer.

That Apple trolls claim the cost is greater than it was for me, yet they
can't name what that cost is or where it came from, proves their low IQ.

They can't believe something as simple as those terms and conditions.

> You like to compare it to $1000 (sic) iphones when you conveniently omit
> that you also got a special deal for your iphones. 

I wonder if you realize that the MSRP is less than $300 for my phone Chris.
That means I'm comparing a $300 phone to that $1000 iPhone you speak of.

That $300 phone has basic functionality that doesn't even exist on iPhones.

> It's also been proven that A-range Galaxy models are "crap" based on your
> own definition.

Yet that $300 phone runs more software functionalities than any iPhone can.

BTW, T-Mobile tried to get everyone who opted into that plan to opt out of
it after a couple of years, as we discussed at length on this very ng.
 <https://i.postimg.cc/j2WMcwfY/tmobileoptout.jpg> 

As I recall, both badgolferman and I talked them out of changing our
grandfathered plans, but I'm not sure if badgolferman followed through.

Did he?
Dunno.

I told them to stop that crap. 
And they did.

What I find indicative of low intelligence is you Apple trolls hate that
you can't figure out terms and conditions so you feel that aliens must be
manipulating my bill somehow unbeknownst to me in a way hidden to all.

When you say that crap, it's further proof that Apple trolls are low IQ.
If there was an additional cost to me - wouldn't you think I would know it.

Just like if there was something that iOS could do that Android can't do,
wouldn't you think someone (anyone!) on this newsgroup would know it?

[toc] | [prev] | [next] | [standalone]

#136941

Marion <marion@facts.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 27 Aug 2025 16:43:17 -0000 (UTC), Chris wrote :
> 
> 
>>> If an Apple moron says it didn't cost me $30, let them show us where they
>>> saw more money coming out of my wallet since the reason they say that is
>>> they were told they are stupid their whole lives and they are.
>> 
>> You only got that (one-off) deal because you had a contract with the
>> provider. No-one could have got that deal walking into a shop. How much do
>> you pay for your contract? Currently, I pay ｣7 pm. 
> 
> What's sad is I can tell Apple trolls something a thousand times yet it
> never once sinks into your brain - which is how I know you have a low IQ.
>  <https://i.postimg.cc/YC1B906F/tmopromo01.jpg> A32-5G & iPhone 12 contract

Thanks for confirming that your $30 phone should be compared to a $50
iphone, not as you always try claim a $1000 one. Not so hard was it?

>  <https://i.postimg.cc/Xq5SpS4D/tmopromo02.jpg> $15/mo iPhone,$0/mo Android 
>  <https://i.postimg.cc/nhpbcP50/tmopromo04.jpg> $100 for 6 lines + $16 fees
> 
> You couldn't pass a single college exam, Chris, 

Feeling fragile are you? Your attempts at insults speak more about you than
anything else. 

> missing the same fact just
> once, let alone the thousand times I've posted those exact same images.
> 
> I own six SIM carded devices, with the bill being $100/month + fees of
> about $20 nowadays (it used to be about $16 in those fees in April 2021).

Thanks for sharing. So $1440 a year (and every year) to get your "cheap"
phones. 

>> You like to compare it to $1000 (sic) iphones when you conveniently omit
>> that you also got a special deal for your iphones. 
> 
> I wonder if you realize that the MSRP is less than $300 for my phone Chris.
> That means I'm comparing a $300 phone to that $1000 iPhone you speak of.

Given your phone is a crap A range, you should compare to the entry level
iphone which is about $500. 

$1000 gets you an iphone Pro which is completely different market to the A
range galaxies. 

Be honest in comparing like for like. $30 vs $1000 is simply a lie. 

> That $300 phone has basic functionality that doesn't even exist on iPhones.

False. 

>> It's also been proven that A-range Galaxy models are "crap" based on your
>> own definition.
> 
> Yet that $300 phone runs more software functionalities than any iPhone can.

Am glad you agree that galaxy A range mobiles are "crap". 

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