Groups | Search | Server Info | Keyboard shortcuts | Login | Register [http] [https] [nntp] [nntps]
Groups > comp.programming > #11007
| From | David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> |
|---|---|
| Newsgroups | comp.programming |
| Subject | Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming |
| Date | 2020-06-27 17:50 +0200 |
| Organization | A noiseless patient Spider |
| Message-ID | <rd7psp$q8c$1@dont-email.me> (permalink) |
| References | (15 earlier) <c544bf1f-7eb9-48d3-b239-b39b3bb5a20bo@googlegroups.com> <rd4e1m$c79$2@dont-email.me> <d1240ea0-15dd-45a8-8a4d-5e70f137435bo@googlegroups.com> <rd4mg8$v1e$1@dont-email.me> <86k0zslhbp.fsf@example.com> |
On 27/06/2020 16:22, Boris Dorestand wrote:
> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> writes:
>
>> On 26/06/2020 12:56, James Dow Allen wrote:
>>> On Friday, June 26, 2020 at 4:10:17 PM UTC+7, David Brown wrote:
>>>> On 26/06/2020 10:25, syed owais wrote:
>>>>> i have changed course in the pursuit of programming skills--i will
>>>>> first learn c and the python.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Trust this from someone who works primarily with C and Python for a
>>>> living - that is a truly stupid idea. It is perhaps not quite as bad as
>>>> picking FORTRAN, but it is /bad/.
>>>
>>> Why? I think there's a case for first learning a language
>>> "close to the hardware." Is there some reason that C is a bad first
>>> language?
>>
>> Yes, many reasons.
>>
>> I can agree that learning a language "close to the hardware" is a good
>> idea if you want to understand about computer hardware. The OP here
>> wants a tool to help automate his mathematics work - he does not (or
>> should not) care anything about the hardware.
>
> [...]
>
>> It might be that the best choice for him is Haskell or Lisp, rather than
>> Python, or that he has other requirements that haven't been discussed.
>> And it is entirely plausible that the best choice in the end will not be
>> the same as the /first/ choice - you can pick a different balance when
>> learning about programming, and later once you have a better
>> understanding and want something more advanced. But I am very confident
>> that neither C nor FORTRAN are appropriate choices.
>
> Your entire post makes a lot of sense. I'd like to contribute with an
> addition here that might sound very controversial at the end, but here
> it goes.
>
> I think the OP should also consider not just the language but the book
> too. Because of the availability of ``the book'', I think a Lisp turns
> out to the best thing for the OP. Here's why.
>
> The book
>
> How to Design Programs
> http://htdp.org
>
> is AFAIK the unique book in the entire world that seems to actually
> teach programming without the usual strategy of presenting various
> sample problems and solving them the programming language of choice. It
> seems HtDP is the only book that found a way to talk about programming
> in a more general sense of the word. Of course they solve lots of
> sample simple problems, but only to illustrate the more general
> strategy.
>
I fully endorse the idea of learning to program rather than learning to
code. Once you have learned to program, the particular language used
for coding the programs is a much smaller concern. It's inevitable that
"learning to program" requires some sort of language or formal syntax,
and I think a functional style has a lot of advantages. (When I learned
programming at university, the first two languages we used was a
functional programming language and a symbolic one that existed only on
paper and the blackboard. By the time the courses required "real"
languages, we learned the languages as homework.)
There is, however, no "ideal" way to do this - different people have
different outsets, different aims, different abilities, different interests.
> The books sends you towards functional programming --- which I guess
> will suit the OP's mathematics work --- and Lisp seems to be the
> language with least syntax, which seems like a good educational start.
>
Lack of syntax is not a benefit for learning a language. With Lisp, a
beginner is going to feel they aren't actually doing very much except
writing far too many close-parenthesis symbols. Begin able to write
"print('Hello, world!')" might not be as theoretically pure, but it
gives a lot more feedback to the learner.
> But the choice for Lisp is due to HtDP. This book is *the educational
> first book* on programming. Even experienced programmers should read
> it, I think: if not for anything else, then at least so one would get
> close to an educational approach one hasn't closely seen yet.
>
> I have no association with the authors. I speak for myself, of course.
>
I can certainly agree on the idea that a good book (or course or
tutorial) can outweigh many other aspects of the choice of language.
Back to comp.programming | Previous | Next — Previous in thread | Next in thread | Find similar | Unroll thread
are you interested in number theory AND programming syedanwarowais5@gmail.com - 2020-06-12 02:25 -0700
Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming root <NoEMail@home.org> - 2020-06-12 14:26 +0000
Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming syedanwarowais5@gmail.com - 2020-06-12 19:34 -0700
Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-06-13 11:16 +0100
Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming syedanwarowais5@gmail.com - 2020-06-13 04:07 -0700
Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2020-06-13 07:20 -0700
Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2020-06-13 07:47 -0700
Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2020-06-13 08:29 -0700
Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-06-13 17:02 +0100
Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming syedanwarowais5@gmail.com - 2020-06-13 23:11 -0700
Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming syedanwarowais5@gmail.com - 2020-06-13 23:23 -0700
Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming James Dow Allen <jdallen2000@yahoo.com> - 2020-06-17 00:55 -0700
Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2020-06-17 09:30 +0100
Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming James Dow Allen <jdallen2000@yahoo.com> - 2020-06-17 02:32 -0700
Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2020-06-20 08:26 +0100
Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming James Dow Allen <jdallen2000@yahoo.com> - 2020-06-20 03:58 -0700
Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2020-06-20 14:55 +0100
Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-06-17 23:11 +0100
Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming syed owais <syedanwarowais5@gmail.com> - 2020-06-20 04:44 -0700
Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2020-06-20 06:27 -0700
Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming syed owais <syedanwarowais5@gmail.com> - 2020-06-21 17:31 -0700
Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming James Dow Allen <jdallen2000@yahoo.com> - 2020-06-22 02:00 -0700
Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming syed owais <syedanwarowais5@gmail.com> - 2020-06-22 05:34 -0700
Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming root <NoEMail@home.org> - 2020-06-22 14:05 +0000
Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming syed owais <syedanwarowais5@gmail.com> - 2020-06-23 04:50 -0700
Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-06-23 15:50 +0200
Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming Chad <cdalten@gmail.com> - 2020-06-23 14:34 -0700
Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming syed owais <syedanwarowais5@gmail.com> - 2020-06-24 01:39 -0700
Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-06-24 15:48 +0200
Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-06-24 13:52 +0100
Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-06-24 16:00 +0200
Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-06-24 17:03 +0100
Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-06-24 20:32 +0200
Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming Chad <cdalten@gmail.com> - 2020-06-24 14:19 -0700
Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2020-06-26 06:24 -0700
Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-06-26 16:28 +0200
Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2020-06-26 06:11 -0700
Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming James Dow Allen <jdallen2000@yahoo.com> - 2020-06-22 09:39 -0700
Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming syed owais <syedanwarowais5@gmail.com> - 2020-06-23 00:50 -0700
Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming James Dow Allen <jdallen2000@yahoo.com> - 2020-06-23 05:14 -0700
Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming syed owais <syedanwarowais5@gmail.com> - 2020-06-24 02:39 -0700
Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2020-06-25 20:48 +0100
Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-06-26 08:48 +0200
Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming syed owais <syedanwarowais5@gmail.com> - 2020-06-26 01:25 -0700
Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-06-26 11:10 +0200
Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming James Dow Allen <jdallen2000@yahoo.com> - 2020-06-26 03:56 -0700
Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-06-26 13:34 +0200
Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming Boris Dorestand <bdorestand@example.com> - 2020-06-27 11:22 -0300
Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-06-27 17:50 +0200
Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming Boris Dorestand <bdorestand@example.com> - 2020-06-27 13:42 -0300
Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming syed owais <syedanwarowais5@gmail.com> - 2020-07-04 18:44 -0700
Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming syed owais <syedanwarowais5@gmail.com> - 2020-07-09 19:51 -0700
Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming James Dow Allen <jdallen2000@yahoo.com> - 2020-07-10 05:32 -0700
Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming syed owais <syedanwarowais5@gmail.com> - 2020-07-10 09:03 -0700
Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2020-06-26 06:02 -0700
Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming James Dow Allen <jdallen2000@yahoo.com> - 2020-06-26 01:58 -0700
Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-06-26 11:14 +0200
Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-06-26 13:10 -0400
Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2020-06-26 06:12 -0700
Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-06-13 23:28 +0200
csiph-web