Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming

From	David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no>
Newsgroups	comp.programming
Subject	Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming
Date	2020-06-26 13:34 +0200
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<rd4mg8$v1e$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	(14 earlier) <rd2v27$2b8$1@dont-email.me> <rd45nq$9o$1@dont-email.me> <c544bf1f-7eb9-48d3-b239-b39b3bb5a20bo@googlegroups.com> <rd4e1m$c79$2@dont-email.me> <d1240ea0-15dd-45a8-8a4d-5e70f137435bo@googlegroups.com>

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On 26/06/2020 12:56, James Dow Allen wrote:
> On Friday, June 26, 2020 at 4:10:17 PM UTC+7, David Brown wrote:
>> On 26/06/2020 10:25, syed owais wrote:
>>> i have changed course in the pursuit of programming skills--i will first learn c and the python.
>>>
>>
>> Trust this from someone who works primarily with C and Python for a
>> living - that is a truly stupid idea.  It is perhaps not quite as bad as
>> picking FORTRAN, but it is /bad/.
> 
> Why?  I think there's a case for first learning a language
> "close to the hardware."  Is there some reason that C is a bad first
> language?

Yes, many reasons.

I can agree that learning a language "close to the hardware" is a good
idea if you want to understand about computer hardware.  The OP here
wants a tool to help automate his mathematics work - he does not (or
should not) care anything about the hardware.

But even if you want to learn about the hardware, /starting/ with such a
language can make it a lot harder.  You have to learn a lot before you
can do anything - that makes for a frustrating learning process.  And C,
certainly on a PC, is not a great choice anyway - step one is a
printf("Hello, world!\n") program that is totally disconnected from the
hardware.  For PC programming, the only thing "close to the hardware"
about C is that you have to use extra effort to get numbers bigger than
2G and you waste all your time and effort on memory management.

Anyone wanting to learn about hardware should look at embedded
programming - get an Arduino and work from that.

People wanting to learn /programming/, rather than wanting to learn C
(and there are good reasons to want to learn C), should pick a language
that is much higher up.

Python stands out as a language that is relatively easy to learn, can be
learned in stages, takes care of many details for you, supports high
performance for things that really need it, and will work well for the
needs of a mathematician.  It really is the only general-purpose choice
for the OP - the alternative would be a tool-specific language built
into a mathematics software package of his choice.  And for many
mathematics software packages, the built-in language is Python.
(Coincidence?  I don't think so.)

> 
> In any event, different people will have preferences for different
> types of language.

Of course.  I am by no means saying C is a bad language.  I am saying it
is a bad choice for the OP.

>  Dennis Ritchie, for example, was a fan of
> procedural languages, not functional.  Individual tastes may be
> especially important for our syed owais -- he seems as interested
> in programming as an avocation more than as vocation.
> 
> My personal advice is that he spend an hour on each of a
> few different languages, just to get an idea which has a flavor
> that might appeal to him.
> 

My personal advice is that he engages sensibly in the discussion rather
than jumping to conclusions that make no sense based on the advice given
and any reasonable research.  I assume that English is not his first
language, though I have seen much worse English from native speakers.
It may be that other discussion forums could help him.  (But it is
/really/ nice to see some life here.)

It might be that the best choice for him is Haskell or Lisp, rather than
Python, or that he has other requirements that haven't been discussed.
And it is entirely plausible that the best choice in the end will not be
the same as the /first/ choice - you can pick a different balance when
learning about programming, and later once you have a better
understanding and want something more advanced.  But I am very confident
that neither C nor FORTRAN are appropriate choices.

Thread

are you interested in number theory AND programming syedanwarowais5@gmail.com - 2020-06-12 02:25 -0700
  Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming root <NoEMail@home.org> - 2020-06-12 14:26 +0000
    Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming syedanwarowais5@gmail.com - 2020-06-12 19:34 -0700
      Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-06-13 11:16 +0100
        Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming syedanwarowais5@gmail.com - 2020-06-13 04:07 -0700
          Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2020-06-13 07:20 -0700
            Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2020-06-13 07:47 -0700
            Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2020-06-13 08:29 -0700
          Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-06-13 17:02 +0100
            Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming syedanwarowais5@gmail.com - 2020-06-13 23:11 -0700
              Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming syedanwarowais5@gmail.com - 2020-06-13 23:23 -0700
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming James Dow Allen <jdallen2000@yahoo.com> - 2020-06-17 00:55 -0700
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2020-06-17 09:30 +0100
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming James Dow Allen <jdallen2000@yahoo.com> - 2020-06-17 02:32 -0700
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2020-06-20 08:26 +0100
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming James Dow Allen <jdallen2000@yahoo.com> - 2020-06-20 03:58 -0700
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2020-06-20 14:55 +0100
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-06-17 23:11 +0100
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming syed owais <syedanwarowais5@gmail.com> - 2020-06-20 04:44 -0700
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2020-06-20 06:27 -0700
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming syed owais <syedanwarowais5@gmail.com> - 2020-06-21 17:31 -0700
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming James Dow Allen <jdallen2000@yahoo.com> - 2020-06-22 02:00 -0700
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming syed owais <syedanwarowais5@gmail.com> - 2020-06-22 05:34 -0700
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming root <NoEMail@home.org> - 2020-06-22 14:05 +0000
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming syed owais <syedanwarowais5@gmail.com> - 2020-06-23 04:50 -0700
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-06-23 15:50 +0200
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming Chad <cdalten@gmail.com> - 2020-06-23 14:34 -0700
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming syed owais <syedanwarowais5@gmail.com> - 2020-06-24 01:39 -0700
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-06-24 15:48 +0200
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-06-24 13:52 +0100
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-06-24 16:00 +0200
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-06-24 17:03 +0100
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-06-24 20:32 +0200
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming Chad <cdalten@gmail.com> - 2020-06-24 14:19 -0700
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2020-06-26 06:24 -0700
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-06-26 16:28 +0200
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2020-06-26 06:11 -0700
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming James Dow Allen <jdallen2000@yahoo.com> - 2020-06-22 09:39 -0700
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming syed owais <syedanwarowais5@gmail.com> - 2020-06-23 00:50 -0700
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming James Dow Allen <jdallen2000@yahoo.com> - 2020-06-23 05:14 -0700
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming syed owais <syedanwarowais5@gmail.com> - 2020-06-24 02:39 -0700
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2020-06-25 20:48 +0100
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-06-26 08:48 +0200
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming syed owais <syedanwarowais5@gmail.com> - 2020-06-26 01:25 -0700
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-06-26 11:10 +0200
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming James Dow Allen <jdallen2000@yahoo.com> - 2020-06-26 03:56 -0700
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-06-26 13:34 +0200
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming Boris Dorestand <bdorestand@example.com> - 2020-06-27 11:22 -0300
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-06-27 17:50 +0200
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming Boris Dorestand <bdorestand@example.com> - 2020-06-27 13:42 -0300
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming syed owais <syedanwarowais5@gmail.com> - 2020-07-04 18:44 -0700
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming syed owais <syedanwarowais5@gmail.com> - 2020-07-09 19:51 -0700
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming James Dow Allen <jdallen2000@yahoo.com> - 2020-07-10 05:32 -0700
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming syed owais <syedanwarowais5@gmail.com> - 2020-07-10 09:03 -0700
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2020-06-26 06:02 -0700
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming James Dow Allen <jdallen2000@yahoo.com> - 2020-06-26 01:58 -0700
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-06-26 11:14 +0200
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-06-26 13:10 -0400
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2020-06-26 06:12 -0700
          Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-06-13 23:28 +0200

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