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Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming

From Boris Dorestand <bdorestand@example.com>
Newsgroups comp.programming
Subject Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming
Date 2020-06-27 13:42 -0300
Organization Aioe.org NNTP Server
Message-ID <86sgegjw9d.fsf@example.com> (permalink)
References (15 earlier) <rd4e1m$c79$2@dont-email.me> <d1240ea0-15dd-45a8-8a4d-5e70f137435bo@googlegroups.com> <rd4mg8$v1e$1@dont-email.me> <86k0zslhbp.fsf@example.com> <rd7psp$q8c$1@dont-email.me>

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David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> writes:

> On 27/06/2020 16:22, Boris Dorestand wrote:
>> David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> writes:
>> 
>>> On 26/06/2020 12:56, James Dow Allen wrote:
>>>> On Friday, June 26, 2020 at 4:10:17 PM UTC+7, David Brown wrote:
>>>>> On 26/06/2020 10:25, syed owais wrote:
>>>>>> i have changed course in the pursuit of programming skills--i will
>>>>>> first learn c and the python.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Trust this from someone who works primarily with C and Python for a
>>>>> living - that is a truly stupid idea.  It is perhaps not quite as bad as
>>>>> picking FORTRAN, but it is /bad/.
>>>>
>>>> Why?  I think there's a case for first learning a language
>>>> "close to the hardware."  Is there some reason that C is a bad first
>>>> language?
>>>
>>> Yes, many reasons.
>>>
>>> I can agree that learning a language "close to the hardware" is a good
>>> idea if you want to understand about computer hardware.  The OP here
>>> wants a tool to help automate his mathematics work - he does not (or
>>> should not) care anything about the hardware.
>> 
>> [...]
>> 
>>> It might be that the best choice for him is Haskell or Lisp, rather than
>>> Python, or that he has other requirements that haven't been discussed.
>>> And it is entirely plausible that the best choice in the end will not be
>>> the same as the /first/ choice - you can pick a different balance when
>>> learning about programming, and later once you have a better
>>> understanding and want something more advanced.  But I am very confident
>>> that neither C nor FORTRAN are appropriate choices.
>> 
>> Your entire post makes a lot of sense.  I'd like to contribute with an
>> addition here that might sound very controversial at the end, but here
>> it goes.
>> 
>> I think the OP should also consider not just the language but the book
>> too.  Because of the availability of ``the book'', I think a Lisp turns
>> out to the best thing for the OP.  Here's why.
>> 
>> The book 
>> 
>>   How to Design Programs
>>   http://htdp.org
>> 
>> is AFAIK the unique book in the entire world that seems to actually
>> teach programming without the usual strategy of presenting various
>> sample problems and solving them the programming language of choice.  It
>> seems HtDP is the only book that found a way to talk about programming
>> in a more general sense of the word.  Of course they solve lots of
>> sample simple problems, but only to illustrate the more general
>> strategy.
>
> I fully endorse the idea of learning to program rather than learning to
> code.  Once you have learned to program, the particular language used
> for coding the programs is a much smaller concern.  It's inevitable that
> "learning to program" requires some sort of language or formal syntax,
> and I think a functional style has a lot of advantages.  (When I learned
> programming at university, the first two languages we used was a
> functional programming language and a symbolic one that existed only on
> paper and the blackboard.  By the time the courses required "real"
> languages, we learned the languages as homework.)
>
> There is, however, no "ideal" way to do this - different people have
> different outsets, different aims, different abilities, different interests.

That's an important point.  I did not study programming with a language
that only existed on paper the blackboard, but I did eventually practice
with one because I saw the value of such thing.  (Had someone introduced
that to me early on, *maybe* I would've thought it was a boring
subject.)

Learning is very much psychology-involved.  The taste and the fun of the
learner has to be taken into account, lest he distances himself from the
subject out of unpleasure and discomfort.

The young learner might be attracted to programming because of
computers.  If you remove the computer, he might lose the interest.
Maybe in the future he'll himself come up with the idea that having a
computer only in the mind is a good idea and has its uses.

[...]

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Thread

are you interested in number theory AND programming syedanwarowais5@gmail.com - 2020-06-12 02:25 -0700
  Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming root <NoEMail@home.org> - 2020-06-12 14:26 +0000
    Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming syedanwarowais5@gmail.com - 2020-06-12 19:34 -0700
      Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-06-13 11:16 +0100
        Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming syedanwarowais5@gmail.com - 2020-06-13 04:07 -0700
          Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2020-06-13 07:20 -0700
            Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2020-06-13 07:47 -0700
            Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2020-06-13 08:29 -0700
          Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-06-13 17:02 +0100
            Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming syedanwarowais5@gmail.com - 2020-06-13 23:11 -0700
              Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming syedanwarowais5@gmail.com - 2020-06-13 23:23 -0700
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming James Dow Allen <jdallen2000@yahoo.com> - 2020-06-17 00:55 -0700
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2020-06-17 09:30 +0100
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming James Dow Allen <jdallen2000@yahoo.com> - 2020-06-17 02:32 -0700
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2020-06-20 08:26 +0100
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming James Dow Allen <jdallen2000@yahoo.com> - 2020-06-20 03:58 -0700
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2020-06-20 14:55 +0100
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-06-17 23:11 +0100
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming syed owais <syedanwarowais5@gmail.com> - 2020-06-20 04:44 -0700
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2020-06-20 06:27 -0700
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming syed owais <syedanwarowais5@gmail.com> - 2020-06-21 17:31 -0700
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming James Dow Allen <jdallen2000@yahoo.com> - 2020-06-22 02:00 -0700
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming syed owais <syedanwarowais5@gmail.com> - 2020-06-22 05:34 -0700
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming root <NoEMail@home.org> - 2020-06-22 14:05 +0000
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming syed owais <syedanwarowais5@gmail.com> - 2020-06-23 04:50 -0700
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-06-23 15:50 +0200
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming Chad <cdalten@gmail.com> - 2020-06-23 14:34 -0700
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming syed owais <syedanwarowais5@gmail.com> - 2020-06-24 01:39 -0700
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-06-24 15:48 +0200
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-06-24 13:52 +0100
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-06-24 16:00 +0200
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2020-06-24 17:03 +0100
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-06-24 20:32 +0200
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming Chad <cdalten@gmail.com> - 2020-06-24 14:19 -0700
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2020-06-26 06:24 -0700
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-06-26 16:28 +0200
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2020-06-26 06:11 -0700
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming James Dow Allen <jdallen2000@yahoo.com> - 2020-06-22 09:39 -0700
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming syed owais <syedanwarowais5@gmail.com> - 2020-06-23 00:50 -0700
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming James Dow Allen <jdallen2000@yahoo.com> - 2020-06-23 05:14 -0700
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming syed owais <syedanwarowais5@gmail.com> - 2020-06-24 02:39 -0700
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming Richard Heathfield <rjh@cpax.org.uk> - 2020-06-25 20:48 +0100
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-06-26 08:48 +0200
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming syed owais <syedanwarowais5@gmail.com> - 2020-06-26 01:25 -0700
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-06-26 11:10 +0200
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming James Dow Allen <jdallen2000@yahoo.com> - 2020-06-26 03:56 -0700
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-06-26 13:34 +0200
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming Boris Dorestand <bdorestand@example.com> - 2020-06-27 11:22 -0300
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-06-27 17:50 +0200
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming Boris Dorestand <bdorestand@example.com> - 2020-06-27 13:42 -0300
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming syed owais <syedanwarowais5@gmail.com> - 2020-07-04 18:44 -0700
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming syed owais <syedanwarowais5@gmail.com> - 2020-07-09 19:51 -0700
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming James Dow Allen <jdallen2000@yahoo.com> - 2020-07-10 05:32 -0700
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming syed owais <syedanwarowais5@gmail.com> - 2020-07-10 09:03 -0700
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2020-06-26 06:02 -0700
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming James Dow Allen <jdallen2000@yahoo.com> - 2020-06-26 01:58 -0700
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-06-26 11:14 +0200
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming Richard Damon <Richard@Damon-Family.org> - 2020-06-26 13:10 -0400
                Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming Julio Di Egidio <julio@diegidio.name> - 2020-06-26 06:12 -0700
          Re: are you interested in number theory AND programming David Brown <david.brown@hesbynett.no> - 2020-06-13 23:28 +0200

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