Re: The Lisp Curse

From	"Alf P. Steinbach /Usenet" <alf.p.steinbach+usenet@gmail.com>
Newsgroups	comp.lang.misc, comp.programming
Subject	Re: The Lisp Curse
Date	2011-07-02 00:32 +0200
Organization	A noiseless patient Spider
Message-ID	<iulhci$tji$1@dont-email.me> (permalink)
References	(2 earlier) <i6hanfihyquc$.1xa8gynxyaewy$.dlg@40tude.net> <iuhfpu$j1p$1@news.albasani.net> <mdl07vmkcese$.xdky7iumyid1$.dlg@40tude.net> <iuioog$i90$1@news.albasani.net> <oy49vfa8q1ku.ulbhf23lrffw.dlg@40tude.net>

Cross-posted to 2 groups.

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* Dmitry A. Kazakov, on 01.07.2011 23:25:
>
> Some SF authors believed that intelligence arise by itself from
> computational power. That is rubbish, a not booted Intel Core i7 is no more
> or less intelligent than a not booted Intel 8086. It is the software that
> makes the play.

This argument is misrepresenting the folks who have proposed that. They have 
been talking about active systems. But like you I don't believe in the idea; 
it's just a far fetched notion that like tales of trolls represent fear.

On the other hand, computing power is necessary for intelligence, because it's 
necessary for quickly performing large associative searches (like set 
intersections) in an extremely large model of the external world.

Just to get an idea of what that means, put down a hypothesis of each neuron 
communicating 100 bytes per second on average. I dunno, perhaps it's just 1, it 
doesn't matter much. Assume, like, 1 trillion neurons in your brain. Then, 
what's going on there, is like 100 trillion bytes, or 10^11 bytes, being sent 
around per second. So for your PC you need a bus with that capacity, but as of 
2011 your PC's bus doesn't shuffle hundreds of trillions of bytes per second; 
it's more like just hundreds of millions... That's the VON NEUMANN BOTTLENECK, 
the result of extreme centralization: currently a factor of 1 million short.

And that translates to at least some years, probably a decade or two.

The programming doesn't matter much until the necessary computing power is 
there. I suspect that the power will be realized in one of two ways. Namely, 
either by massive parallelization of conventional hardware, thus avoiding the 
single super-fast bus, or by interfacing fast conventional computing hardware to 
biological systems and letting the latter do the "model" stuff.


Cheers & hth.,

- Alf

-- 
blog at <url: http://alfps.wordpress.com>

Thread

Re: The Lisp Curse Mentifex <mentifex@myuw.net> - 2011-06-29 15:41 -0700
  Re: The Lisp Curse "Fuschia, President-Elect of the Bright Purplish-Green Council" <fp-eotbp-gc@ibm.com> - 2011-06-29 19:16 -0400
  Re: The Lisp Curse "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de> - 2011-06-30 09:47 +0200
    Re: The Lisp Curse BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-06-30 02:27 -0700
      Re: The Lisp Curse "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de> - 2011-06-30 14:28 +0200
        Re: The Lisp Curse BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-06-30 14:06 -0700
          Re: The Lisp Curse "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de> - 2011-07-01 23:25 +0200
            Re: The Lisp Curse "Alf P. Steinbach /Usenet" <alf.p.steinbach+usenet@gmail.com> - 2011-07-02 00:32 +0200
              Re: The Lisp Curse "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de> - 2011-07-02 09:49 +0200
                Re: The Lisp Curse "Alf P. Steinbach /Usenet" <alf.p.steinbach+usenet@gmail.com> - 2011-07-02 12:23 +0200
                Re: The Lisp Curse "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de> - 2011-07-02 15:30 +0200
                Re: The Lisp Curse "Alf P. Steinbach /Usenet" <alf.p.steinbach+usenet@gmail.com> - 2011-07-02 17:06 +0200
                Re: The Lisp Curse "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de> - 2011-07-02 18:09 +0200
                Re: The Lisp Curse James Waldby <not@valid.invalid> - 2011-07-02 17:23 +0000
                Re: The Lisp Curse "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de> - 2011-07-02 20:50 +0200
                Re: The Lisp Curse luser droog <mijoryx@yahoo.com> - 2011-07-17 22:14 -0700
                Re: The Lisp Curse Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-07-18 14:10 +0100
                Re: The Lisp Curse Willem <willem@toad.stack.nl> - 2011-07-18 14:13 +0000
                Re: The Lisp Curse Ben Bacarisse <ben.usenet@bsb.me.uk> - 2011-07-18 16:18 +0100
                Re: The Lisp Curse "Alf P. Steinbach /Usenet" <alf.p.steinbach+usenet@gmail.com> - 2011-07-02 19:47 +0200
                Re: The Lisp Curse "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de> - 2011-07-02 20:56 +0200
                Re: The Lisp Curse "Alf P. Steinbach /Usenet" <alf.p.steinbach+usenet@gmail.com> - 2011-07-02 23:01 +0200
                Re: The Lisp Curse "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de> - 2011-07-03 10:45 +0200
                Re: The Lisp Curse BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-07-02 10:00 -0700
                Re: The Lisp Curse luser droog <mijoryx@yahoo.com> - 2011-07-17 04:09 -0700
                Re: The Lisp Curse "James" <no@spam.invalid> - 2011-07-03 12:06 -0700
            Re: The Lisp Curse BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-07-01 21:22 -0700
              Re: The Lisp Curse "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de> - 2011-07-02 09:47 +0200
                Re: The Lisp Curse BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-07-02 02:10 -0700
                Re: The Lisp Curse "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de> - 2011-07-02 15:29 +0200
                Re: The Lisp Curse BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-07-02 10:03 -0700
                Re: The Lisp Curse "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de> - 2011-07-02 20:47 +0200
                Re: The Lisp Curse BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2011-07-02 20:29 -0700
                Re: The Lisp Curse "Dmitry A. Kazakov" <mailbox@dmitry-kazakov.de> - 2011-07-03 10:53 +0200
                Re: The Lisp Curse tm <thomas.mertes@gmx.at> - 2011-07-03 23:42 -0700
        Re: The Lisp Curse Fritz Wuehler <fritz@spamexpire-201107.rodent.frell.theremailer.net> - 2011-07-03 14:40 +0200

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