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Re: programmer's keyboard

From Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com>
Newsgroups comp.programming
Subject Re: programmer's keyboard
Date 2013-01-01 13:24 +1300
Message-ID <akeol6Fltc3U7@mid.individual.net> (permalink)
References (14 earlier) <kbqiq3$3q7$1@news.albasani.net> <akc2s5Fltc3U4@mid.individual.net> <kbrl33$659$1@news.albasani.net> <ake9gcFltc3U6@mid.individual.net> <kbt5fd$6fa$1@news.albasani.net>

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BGB wrote:
> On 12/31/2012 2:05 PM, Ian Collins wrote:
>> BGB wrote:
>>>
>>> granted, TorgoiseHg adds revert to Explorer, making the above a bit moot.
>>
>> As do popular IDEs such as Eclipse and Netbeans.
>>
>
> Eclipse with C or C++ kind of sucked IME, and doesn't seem to support
> using MSVC as the back-end compiler (the version I looked at only
> supported GCC as a backend, and wasn't really all that configurable).
>
> never tried Netbeans, wasn't aware of it working with non-Java languages...

I use Netbeans on various platforms for C, C++, PHP and JavaScript.  It 
has good support (including background compilation) for all four of them.

>>> the rest would come down mostly to granularity.
>>> (like, if you revert, it will go back to the last commit, meaning being
>>> strategic about when to commit, ...).
>>
>> You commit when you pass a test or refactor.
>>
>
> this could potentially still be a fairly coarse granularity.

In my case, 10 - 20 times an hour.

>>> guards, however, can be finer-grained, and can be enabled/disabled at
>>> will, rather than depending specifically on the immediate history.
>>
>> If you need lots of them, you are doing something wrong.
>>
>
> usually, a lot is about fine-tuning the behavior or performance.
>
> say, a person has 2 or 3 versions of a piece of code, which may approach
> the problem in slightly different ways, and the goal may be to figure
> out which is faster, or has the more desirable behavior.

Use branches, merge when done.

>>> and, CTRL-Z is about specific edits, meaning it can undo very recent
>>> changes, and go as far back (usually) as there are undo levels, or when
>>> the editor was last closed and reopened (whichever was more recent).
>>
>> A pain in the arse if you want to undo changes in several files.
>
> usually, in this case (a change which would need to be reverted in
> multiple places), these will be put under the control of a define:
> #define MYLIB_SOMEFEATURE

You still have to clean up afterwards.

>>> it is much like the tradeoff between using Find/Replace and grep or sed.
>>>
>>> Find/Replace is often easier, because it it right there in the editor.
>>
>> Again, popular IDEs support project wide edits and common refactorings.
>
> I typically use stand-alone text-editors.
>
> I could use Visual Studio more often, if I wanted the IDE experience.

There's plenty of choice out there.

>>> the convenience balance may be partly reversed on Linux though,
>>
>> There are more than two operating systems....
>>
>
> well, there are Windows, Linux, and OSX.
>
> much beyond this, it is hard-pressed to find "anyone who gives a crap".
> it is like, how many people use FreeBSD? not really enough to matter.

If just about every ISP doesn't matter....

> other options, like Android or Chrome, don't really count, in that they
> are Linux-based.

There are still a lot of us working on commercial and other open source 
UNIX.

>>> as noted before, the main killer was the long upload times, and because
>>> it seemed to want nit-picky things, like creating a new version entry
>>> and typing something in the changelog, before it would commit anything.
>>
>> Ah yes, good development practice!
>>
>
> yes, but it doesn't save in annoyance, especially if the whole point is
> that a person commits regularly.

Not really, if your changes are small, so are your comments.

>> The long upload times would be down to the Internet, not Mercurial.  It
>> will only copy changes.  This can be a big advantage when you make a
>> small change to a big file over a slow link.
>>
>
> IME, it was typically uploading a lot of data each time.

The best demo I used (with SVN) was to check out a big spreadsheet over 
a slow VPN, change one cell and commit it back.  Copying over the VPN 
took a couple of minutes, the SVN commit took a few seconds to send the 
delta.

-- 
Ian Collins

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Thread

programmer's keyboard bob <bob@coolfone.comze.com> - 2012-12-26 11:45 -0800
  Re: programmer's keyboard Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2012-12-26 15:01 -0600
    Re: programmer's keyboard "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2012-12-26 21:36 +0000
      Re: programmer's keyboard BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-12-26 21:12 -0600
      Re: programmer's keyboard Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2012-12-27 23:45 -0600
        Re: programmer's keyboard "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2012-12-28 13:46 +0000
          Re: programmer's keyboard Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2012-12-29 11:42 +1300
          Re: programmer's keyboard "Chris Uppal" <chris.uppal@metagnostic.REMOVE-THIS.org> - 2012-12-29 15:15 +0000
            Re: programmer's keyboard BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-12-29 14:41 -0600
              Re: programmer's keyboard "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2012-12-29 21:10 +0000
                Re: programmer's keyboard BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-12-29 15:26 -0600
                Re: programmer's keyboard "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2012-12-29 22:41 +0000
                Re: programmer's keyboard BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-12-30 02:12 -0600
                Re: programmer's keyboard "BartC" <bc@freeuk.com> - 2012-12-30 11:20 +0000
                Re: programmer's keyboard malcolm.mclean5@btinternet.com - 2012-12-30 10:19 -0800
                Re: programmer's keyboard BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-12-30 14:51 -0600
              Re: programmer's keyboard Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2012-12-30 10:43 +1300
                Re: programmer's keyboard BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-12-30 01:55 -0600
                Re: programmer's keyboard Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2012-12-30 21:06 +1300
                Re: programmer's keyboard BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-12-30 02:35 -0600
                Re: programmer's keyboard Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-12-30 18:12 +0000
                Re: programmer's keyboard BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-12-30 13:30 -0600
                Re: programmer's keyboard Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2012-12-31 09:36 +1300
                Re: programmer's keyboard BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-12-30 17:27 -0600
                Re: programmer's keyboard Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2012-12-31 13:00 +1300
                Re: programmer's keyboard BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-12-31 03:13 -0600
                version control (was: Re: programmer's keyboard) rugxulo@gmail.com - 2012-12-31 10:36 -0800
                Re: programmer's keyboard Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-01 09:05 +1300
                Re: programmer's keyboard BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-12-31 16:58 -0600
                Re: programmer's keyboard Ian Collins <ian-news@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-01 13:24 +1300
                Re: programmer's keyboard Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2013-01-02 12:23 +0000
                Re: programmer's keyboard BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-02 14:34 -0600
                Re: programmer's keyboard Robert Wessel <robertwessel2@yahoo.com> - 2013-01-02 15:35 -0600
                Re: programmer's keyboard BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-03 13:19 -0600
                Re: programmer's keyboard Willem <willem@turtle.stack.nl> - 2013-01-03 08:35 +0000
                Re: programmer's keyboard BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-03 13:46 -0600
                Re: programmer's keyboard rugxulo@gmail.com - 2013-01-03 00:52 -0800
                Re: programmer's keyboard Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2013-01-03 15:00 +0000
                Re: programmer's keyboard Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2013-01-02 11:58 +0000
                Re: programmer's keyboard BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-02 15:03 -0600
                Re: programmer's keyboard rugxulo@gmail.com - 2013-01-03 00:54 -0800
                Re: programmer's keyboard BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2013-01-03 13:06 -0600
                Re: programmer's keyboard Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-12-30 18:04 +0000
                Re: programmer's keyboard BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-12-30 14:24 -0600
                Re: programmer's keyboard Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2013-01-02 11:34 +0000
          Writing Experimental Code "Aaron W. Hsu" <arcfide@sacrideo.us> - 2013-01-02 15:08 -0600
  Re: programmer's keyboard Rui Maciel <rui.maciel@gmail.com> - 2012-12-28 11:45 +0000
    Re: programmer's keyboard BGB <cr88192@hotmail.com> - 2012-12-28 12:29 -0600

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